January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[cradleandshoot]

trump is the same as Hillary. Check.
i've been to the Congo. Check.
Public Service bad, self-denigrating. Check.
Nothing bad, no evidence worth a prosecution here. Check.
trump never ripped anyone off as a businessman...if he did, meh, Big Wup! Check.

I got it now...LM is Fatty's grandpa!

..

trump is the same as Hillary. Check.

Cept that trump never drove a trusted aide and friend to blow his effing brains out because he could no longer deal with his boss. No there jaundice boy... HRC is the queen of evil for a reason. Why do you think there are all those trump wedding pictures with the queen of evil making googly eyes at trump??? Maybe the dumbcluck John Kerry analogy comes into play... the queen of evil loved trump before she hated him. She sure NEVER turned down trumps money did she???? I'll bet you a sawbuck the queen of evil can beat trump in a lamp tossing contest all day long. FTR, i'm still going to plant a crabapple tree in your honor. I have to find the variety with the proper amount of bitterness in the fruit. That could take me awhile.

[dislaxxic]

Cradle agrees that trump should be locked up.

..

[dislaxxic]

RUDY GIULIANI LAUNCHED A LYNCH MOB OVER A GINGER MINT

Cheney ... laid out that the “institutional concerns” had been waived by other lawyers (and were, legally, in the case of Bill Clinton). And any privilege issue went out the window when Sean Hannity learned of the White House Counsel complaints. Plus, White House Counsel lawyer Eric Herschmann has testified at length, including about matters — such as the call Trump made to Vice President Pence shortly before the riot — involving Trump personally.

Given Cheney’s invocation of those who pled the Fifth, I wonder she suspects that Cipollone’s reluctance has less to do with his claimed excuses, and more to do with a concern that he has personal exposure.

He may! After all, he presided over Trump’s use of pardons to pay off several key players in the insurrection, including three of the people Cheney invoked to set up this contrast: Flynn, Stone, and Bannon (though I suspect Cipollone had checked out before the last of them). And these pardons — and the role of pardons in the planning for January 6 more broadly — may expose those involved, potentially including Cipollone, in the conspiracy.

Whether or not Cheney shames Cipollone into testifying, including with her appeal to religion, he may not have the same luxury of refusing when DOJ comes calling.

..

[ardilla secreta]

Trump is TOTALLY different from Hillary. The both sides argument on the two of them COMPLETELY misses the essential point.

Hillary is a liar. Most politicians are. Most humans are. Definitely bad, but very common and conventional. Much easier to deal with.

The essence of Trump is that he is not a conventional liar. Instead, he is a spectacular bull shirter. Very distinct from a liar and far worse:

1) Bsers don’t consciously deceive.
2) Bsers just don’t know or care about the truth.
3) Bsers ignore or reject the distinction between truth and falsity altogether.

Bottom line per Professor Frankfurter in his definitive work on the subject: "nonsense is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."

Highly encouraged reading if you really want to understand how Trump and Fox News and Facebook are just fundamentally different than the rest of the media.

Bill Barr's testimony captures the distinction well. He testified that Trump was detached from reality. Of course he was/is. He always has been -- he could not care less what reality is. Remember, Trump says he lives on the 66-68th floors of Trump Tower (58 stories tall fyi) in a 33k square foot apartment (actual records say 10K).


https://reasonandmeaning.com/2020/10/29 ... -nonsense/

Agree with you thoughts on lying/BS. The substantial difference is that Trump is a world class Con Man. It’s inconceivable to me that so many are unable to recognize this or just don’t care as long as their team wins.

[jhu72]

... Trump is done as a presidential candidate. Martha McCallum yesterday proved it is possible to embarras a right wing media whore. He still for the most part controls the republiCON party, but those who would vote for him in 2024 are fewer than in 2020. I will be very surprised if he gets the party nomination. By July 2024 he will be greatly diminished and have lost control of the party, but will still have a say in who the candidate is - he will continue to carry the banner for the most deplorable, still a significant republiCON voting block. It is going to be very difficult to unite the republiCON party for 2024. The anti Trump block will be much larger than in 2020.

[MDlaxfan76]

Trump is TOTALLY different from Hillary. The both sides argument on the two of them COMPLETELY misses the essential point.

Hillary is a liar. Most politicians are. Most humans are. Definitely bad, but very common and conventional. Much easier to deal with.

The essence of Trump is that he is not a conventional liar. Instead, he is a spectacular bull shirter. Very distinct from a liar and far worse:

1) Bsers don’t consciously deceive.
2) Bsers just don’t know or care about the truth.
3) Bsers ignore or reject the distinction between truth and falsity altogether.

Bottom line per Professor Frankfurter in his definitive work on the subject: "nonsense is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."

Highly encouraged reading if you really want to understand how Trump and Fox News and Facebook are just fundamentally different than the rest of the media.

Bill Barr's testimony captures the distinction well. He testified that Trump was detached from reality. Of course he was/is. He always has been -- he could not care less what reality is. Remember, Trump says he lives on the 66-68th floors of Trump Tower (58 stories tall fyi) in a 33k square foot apartment (actual records say 10K).


https://reasonandmeaning.com/2020/10/29 ... -nonsense/

Agree with you thoughts on lying/BS. The substantial difference is that Trump is a world class Con Man. It’s inconceivable to me that so many are unable to recognize this or just don’t care as long as their team wins.

I guess I'm not buying that Trump doesn't actually know that he's lying, that he's unaware. I think he does, but doesn't care.
I see him as a egomaniacal sociopath who simply doesn't care about the truth, rather every communication is weighed solely on the basis of how it makes him feel, how it benefits him personally. Truth doesn't enter into it.

And he thinks that anyone who doesn't see it his way, doesn't do as he does, is a "sucker", a "loser".

I don't think that's ignorance of reality, of truth, or facts. Barr's characterization of "detached from reality" is close, "detached" as in "don't care"...but I don't think that means unaware. He comprehends what he's doing. He collects people and "facts" that will support his objective; he simply doesn't care whether they are honest or true or verifiable or...just whether they benefit him in the moment.

He will reject, eject, any facts or people who do not, in the moment. But he knows what he's doing.

[MDlaxfan76]

... Trump is done as a presidential candidate. Martha McCallum yesterday proved it is possible to embarras a right wing media whore. He still for the most part controls the republiCON party, but those who would vote for him in 2024 are fewer than in 2020. I will be very surprised if he gets the party nomination. By July 2024 he will be greatly diminished and have lost control of the party, but will still have a say in who the candidate is - he will continue to carry the banner for the most deplorable, still a significant republiCON voting block. It is going to be very difficult to unite the republiCON party for 2024. The anti Trump block will be much larger than in 2020.

I dunno.
Only if he decides not to run.
Otherwise, we're faced with the possibility that the anti-Trump candidates will split over how MAGA they want to be, while still opposing Trump...split that vote and Trump's 40+% wins again.

Alternative may be someone even more dangerous, a competent fascist, ala DeSantis. I think he'd be able to win outright, but then would dig in deeper and deeper through fascist means. And it'll be way more competently executed with him in power. Trump has proven that a President can intimidate his party into submission.

Right now, I see Trump running, if only to continue the Big Grift, but also because regaining the Presidency, or at least positioning as a candidate, may be his best "defense" against legal liabilities. Actually winning, however, given that I agree that there will be more people unwilling to support him, both R's and I's, will likely require ignoring the actual vote count...the MAGA GOP is working furiously to prepare for that possibility, putting in place scores of officials who have pledged that they would support the GOP candidate regardless of actual count, if there's even an accusation of fraud. Doesn't need to be credible.

Whether Trump or someone like DeSantis, that's what they're preparing to do.

Judge Luttig is right, "clear and present danger".

[dislaxxic]

Bob Woodward reporting this morning on Morning Joe that Trump is telling confidants that he intends to run again.

Developing...

..

[jhu72]

... I believe Trump is going to run, I think there is a growing movement to run someone else. DeSantis is too much like Trump. We have not seen the true anti-Trump candidate emerge yet. I predict one will.

[PizzaSnake]

Bob Woodward reporting this morning on Morning Joe that Trump is telling confidants that he intends to run again.

Developing...

..

That would put DOJ in a pickle. Indict, trouble. Let him run again, bigger trouble.

What to do?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Bob Woodward reporting this morning on Morning Joe that Trump is telling confidants that he intends to run again.

Developing...

..

That would put DOJ in a pickle. Indict, trouble. Let him run again, bigger trouble.

What to do?

Maybe the tension here for Democrats is that allowing Trump to run and be the nominee for the GOP almost ensures a Democrat will be competitive and likely win, and that disqualifying Trump through the prosecution of the many, many crimes C&S and LandM don't see and/or care about ensures a real candidate like DeSantis or one of the other barely presentable crazies out there. On balance, DOJ really has to prosecute Trump for the good of humankind and the nation.

[Peter Brown]

... I believe Trump is going to run, I think there is a growing movement to run someone else. DeSantis is too much like Trump. We have not seen the true anti-Trump candidate emerge yet. I predict one will.

Maybe Biden will get primaried by a fellow Democrat like Andrew Gil-oh wait, sorry.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politi ... -rcna34676

[Andersen]

That would put DOJ in a pickle. Indict, trouble. Let him run again, bigger trouble.

What to do?

Do their job and enforce the laws? Much bigger threat to not enforce the law, if for no other reason than the precedent that sets.

[Seacoaster(1)]

That would put DOJ in a pickle. Indict, trouble. Let him run again, bigger trouble.

What to do?

Do their job and enforce the laws? Much bigger threat to not enforce the law, if for no other reason than the precedent that sets.

Agree 100%.

[LandM]

Anderson,
If your post was intended for me - you can sleep well. Geneva Convention and "Rules of Engagement". ????? Bill Clinton had Osama in sights - armed - ready for the kill. He did not engage - Osama was a smart guy - he always had a woman or a kid at his side - you know that pesky thing - rules of engagement. As a forgiving country - we all get to hear lawyers tell us how we can wind up in jail. How many lives and how many dollars? We do not just off people cause we can, burn their land, randomly fire. As a COUNTRY we have grown. If you want to wear the "big boy pants" wear them. So no, your analogy is foreign to me if that was directed at me.

Dis - yes I was there - hot man, if that was not he$$ - it depicted what I know of it. I only know of fatty as someone who likes weed, guns and I think is a libertarian - keep pushing a narrative - eventually it may come true.

[youthathletics]

... Trump is done as a presidential candidate. Martha McCallum yesterday proved it is possible to embarras a right wing media whore. He still for the most part controls the republiCON party, but those who would vote for him in 2024 are fewer than in 2020. I will be very surprised if he gets the party nomination. By July 2024 he will be greatly diminished and have lost control of the party, but will still have a say in who the candidate is - he will continue to carry the banner for the most deplorable, still a significant republiCON voting block. It is going to be very difficult to unite the republiCON party for 2024. The anti Trump block will be much larger than in 2020.

#QFP

[Seacoaster(1)]

... Trump is done as a presidential candidate. Martha McCallum yesterday proved it is possible to embarras a right wing media whore. He still for the most part controls the republiCON party, but those who would vote for him in 2024 are fewer than in 2020. I will be very surprised if he gets the party nomination. By July 2024 he will be greatly diminished and have lost control of the party, but will still have a say in who the candidate is - he will continue to carry the banner for the most deplorable, still a significant republiCON voting block. It is going to be very difficult to unite the republiCON party for 2024. The anti Trump block will be much larger than in 2020.

#QFP

Quoted for permanency?

[cradleandshoot]

Cradle agrees that trump should be locked up.

..

I don't give a chit what the powers that be do to trump. If they could have locked him up by now it would already be a done deal. If the RepubliCONs could never get the goods on the queen of evil I doubt the DemocRATS will ever get the goods on the dumpster. If the DemocRATs lose their ass in November then their vendetta against the dumpster winds up in the dumpster. The whining about the dumpster on this forum will never go away. I understand their frustration. In my world the dumpster and the queen of evil get to share the same very large cell.

[PizzaSnake]

That would put DOJ in a pickle. Indict, trouble. Let him run again, bigger trouble.

What to do?

Do their job and enforce the laws? Much bigger threat to not enforce the law, if for no other reason than the precedent that sets.

Like we should have learned with Tricky Dick?

[cradleandshoot]

Anderson,
If your post was intended for me - you can sleep well. Geneva Convention and "Rules of Engagement". ????? Bill Clinton had Osama in sights - armed - ready for the kill. He did not engage - Osama was a smart guy - he always had a woman or a kid at his side - you know that pesky thing - rules of engagement. As a forgiving country - we all get to hear lawyers tell us how we can wind up in jail. How many lives and how many dollars? We do not just off people cause we can, burn their land, randomly fire. As a COUNTRY we have grown. If you want to wear the "big boy pants" wear them. So no, your analogy is foreign to me if that was directed at me.

Dis - yes I was there - hot man, if that was not he$$ - it depicted what I know of it. I only know of fatty as someone who likes weed, guns and I think is a libertarian - keep pushing a narrative - eventually it may come true.

A side note LandsM. BHO and his predecessor lobbed countless smart bombs across borders to take out the bad guys. To my recollection I never read jack diddly chit about all the collateral damage done in the process. That would include women, children and elderly people. I wonder if OUR government has those estimates stashed away and out of sight? Is our government vaporizing innocent civilians to kill the bad guys worse than waterboarding??