January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[jhu72]

Jan 6 Committee just did press release. They have agreed to cooperate with DOJ in supplying transcripts requested yesterday by DOJ.

You would think this would be de rigueur.

[PizzaSnake]

This captures perfectly the current malaise afflicting our economy and society.

https://www.euronews.com/amp/2018/05/01 ... ciety-view

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

As commentators and politicians are learning, the precariat is profoundly different, in experience and outlook, from the proletariat that long dominated their imagery. The outcome of globalisation, a technological revolution and reforms promoting “labour flexibility,” the precariat suffers from pervasive insecurity, which makes it a dangerous class.

In a book first published in 2011, I wrote that unless the precariat’s insecurities were addressed urgently, a “political monster” would emerge. For some it was a forewarning: since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, I have received numerous emails saying “your political monster” has arrived. Insecure people tend to vote emotionally, not rationally in defence of enlightenment values.

The precariat has three dimensions. First, they face a distinctive work pattern. They are being habituated to a life of unstable, insecure labour. Casualisation, temping, on-call labour, platform cloud labour and so on are spreading. More importantly, they lack an occupational identity or narrative to give to their lives, or any organisational one.

They must do much work-for-labour, not counted in official statistics or political rhetoric, but which if not done can be costly, such as retraining, networking, refining résumés, filling forms and waiting around for jobs. And typically they obtain jobs below their education or qualifications, and have low mobility upwards. All this creates frustration, insecurity and stress.

Second, the precariat has a distinctive social income. They must rely almost entirely on money wages or earnings. They do not obtain non-wage benefits that even the proletariat obtained, such as paid holidays, medical leave and the prospect of a meaningful pension. While the salariat gain more benefits, the precariat lose even those they had. This means the growth of inequality exceeds what income statistics suggest.

Their real wages have stagnated or fallen, and have become more volatile, meaning more uninsurable uncertainty. This leads to a crucial aspect – living on the edge of unsustainable debt, knowing that one illness, accident or mistake could tip them into a financial abyss.

The third dimension is a distinctive relation to the state. The precariat is losing citizenship rights, often not realising until they need them. This is happening most cruelly to the growing number of migrants, but is also the lot of others, losing cultural, civil, social, economic and political rights. They feel excluded from communities that would give identity and solidarity; they cannot obtain due process if officials deny them benefits, they cannot practice what they are qualified to do, and do not see in the political spectrum leaders who represent their interests and needs.”

Sounds like supporters of a certain person. I think it fair to include those on fixed income and benefits packages in the precariat.

[PizzaSnake]

Duplicate.

[a fan]

This captures perfectly the current malaise afflicting our economy and society.

https://www.euronews.com/amp/2018/05/01 ... ciety-view

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

As commentators and politicians are learning, the precariat is profoundly different, in experience and outlook, from the proletariat that long dominated their imagery. The outcome of globalisation, a technological revolution and reforms promoting “labour flexibility,” the precariat suffers from pervasive insecurity, which makes it a dangerous class.

In a book first published in 2011, I wrote that unless the precariat’s insecurities were addressed urgently, a “political monster” would emerge. For some it was a forewarning: since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, I have received numerous emails saying “your political monster” has arrived. Insecure people tend to vote emotionally, not rationally in defence of enlightenment values.

The precariat has three dimensions. First, they face a distinctive work pattern. They are being habituated to a life of unstable, insecure labour. Casualisation, temping, on-call labour, platform cloud labour and so on are spreading. More importantly, they lack an occupational identity or narrative to give to their lives, or any organisational one.

They must do much work-for-labour, not counted in official statistics or political rhetoric, but which if not done can be costly, such as retraining, networking, refining résumés, filling forms and waiting around for jobs. And typically they obtain jobs below their education or qualifications, and have low mobility upwards. All this creates frustration, insecurity and stress.

Second, the precariat has a distinctive social income. They must rely almost entirely on money wages or earnings. They do not obtain non-wage benefits that even the proletariat obtained, such as paid holidays, medical leave and the prospect of a meaningful pension. While the salariat gain more benefits, the precariat lose even those they had. This means the growth of inequality exceeds what income statistics suggest.

Their real wages have stagnated or fallen, and have become more volatile, meaning more uninsurable uncertainty. This leads to a crucial aspect – living on the edge of unsustainable debt, knowing that one illness, accident or mistake could tip them into a financial abyss.

The third dimension is a distinctive relation to the state. The precariat is losing citizenship rights, often not realising until they need them. This is happening most cruelly to the growing number of migrants, but is also the lot of others, losing cultural, civil, social, economic and political rights. They feel excluded from communities that would give identity and solidarity; they cannot obtain due process if officials deny them benefits, they cannot practice what they are qualified to do, and do not see in the political spectrum leaders who represent their interests and needs.”

Outstanding piece, and this is what I've been saying to the board's Republicans for years now: what's the plan to correct this problem? How do we help these good people get stable, solid jobs? How do we prepare them for the 2022 economy? Sticking it to the libs, conspiracy theories, and ivermectin, and clickbait doesn't put food on the table.

[jhu72]

This captures perfectly the current malaise afflicting our economy and society.

https://www.euronews.com/amp/2018/05/01 ... ciety-view

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

As commentators and politicians are learning, the precariat is profoundly different, in experience and outlook, from the proletariat that long dominated their imagery. The outcome of globalisation, a technological revolution and reforms promoting “labour flexibility,” the precariat suffers from pervasive insecurity, which makes it a dangerous class.

In a book first published in 2011, I wrote that unless the precariat’s insecurities were addressed urgently, a “political monster” would emerge. For some it was a forewarning: since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, I have received numerous emails saying “your political monster” has arrived. Insecure people tend to vote emotionally, not rationally in defence of enlightenment values.

The precariat has three dimensions. First, they face a distinctive work pattern. They are being habituated to a life of unstable, insecure labour. Casualisation, temping, on-call labour, platform cloud labour and so on are spreading. More importantly, they lack an occupational identity or narrative to give to their lives, or any organisational one.

They must do much work-for-labour, not counted in official statistics or political rhetoric, but which if not done can be costly, such as retraining, networking, refining résumés, filling forms and waiting around for jobs. And typically they obtain jobs below their education or qualifications, and have low mobility upwards. All this creates frustration, insecurity and stress.

Second, the precariat has a distinctive social income. They must rely almost entirely on money wages or earnings. They do not obtain non-wage benefits that even the proletariat obtained, such as paid holidays, medical leave and the prospect of a meaningful pension. While the salariat gain more benefits, the precariat lose even those they had. This means the growth of inequality exceeds what income statistics suggest.

Their real wages have stagnated or fallen, and have become more volatile, meaning more uninsurable uncertainty. This leads to a crucial aspect – living on the edge of unsustainable debt, knowing that one illness, accident or mistake could tip them into a financial abyss.

The third dimension is a distinctive relation to the state. The precariat is losing citizenship rights, often not realising until they need them. This is happening most cruelly to the growing number of migrants, but is also the lot of others, losing cultural, civil, social, economic and political rights. They feel excluded from communities that would give identity and solidarity; they cannot obtain due process if officials deny them benefits, they cannot practice what they are qualified to do, and do not see in the political spectrum leaders who represent their interests and needs.”

Sounds like supporters of a certain person. I think it fair to include those on fixed income and benefits packages in the precariat.

... it is Joe Biden's fault.

Has been clear for a long time, this was happening. We will either adapt to this, or die as a democracy. Capitalism is totally unprepared to address this situation. Too many people with too few skills for the amount of useful work available in the age of machines. Too much money concentrated in the hands of too few.

[jhu72]

This captures perfectly the current malaise afflicting our economy and society.

https://www.euronews.com/amp/2018/05/01 ... ciety-view

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

As commentators and politicians are learning, the precariat is profoundly different, in experience and outlook, from the proletariat that long dominated their imagery. The outcome of globalisation, a technological revolution and reforms promoting “labour flexibility,” the precariat suffers from pervasive insecurity, which makes it a dangerous class.

In a book first published in 2011, I wrote that unless the precariat’s insecurities were addressed urgently, a “political monster” would emerge. For some it was a forewarning: since the 2016 U.S. presidential election, I have received numerous emails saying “your political monster” has arrived. Insecure people tend to vote emotionally, not rationally in defence of enlightenment values.

The precariat has three dimensions. First, they face a distinctive work pattern. They are being habituated to a life of unstable, insecure labour. Casualisation, temping, on-call labour, platform cloud labour and so on are spreading. More importantly, they lack an occupational identity or narrative to give to their lives, or any organisational one.

They must do much work-for-labour, not counted in official statistics or political rhetoric, but which if not done can be costly, such as retraining, networking, refining résumés, filling forms and waiting around for jobs. And typically they obtain jobs below their education or qualifications, and have low mobility upwards. All this creates frustration, insecurity and stress.

Second, the precariat has a distinctive social income. They must rely almost entirely on money wages or earnings. They do not obtain non-wage benefits that even the proletariat obtained, such as paid holidays, medical leave and the prospect of a meaningful pension. While the salariat gain more benefits, the precariat lose even those they had. This means the growth of inequality exceeds what income statistics suggest.

Their real wages have stagnated or fallen, and have become more volatile, meaning more uninsurable uncertainty. This leads to a crucial aspect – living on the edge of unsustainable debt, knowing that one illness, accident or mistake could tip them into a financial abyss.

The third dimension is a distinctive relation to the state. The precariat is losing citizenship rights, often not realising until they need them. This is happening most cruelly to the growing number of migrants, but is also the lot of others, losing cultural, civil, social, economic and political rights. They feel excluded from communities that would give identity and solidarity; they cannot obtain due process if officials deny them benefits, they cannot practice what they are qualified to do, and do not see in the political spectrum leaders who represent their interests and needs.”

Outstanding piece, and this is what I've been saying to the board's Republicans for years now: what's the plan to correct this problem? How do we help these good people get stable, solid jobs? How do we prepare them for the 2022 economy? Sticking it to the libs, conspiracy theories, and ivermectin, and clickbait doesn't put food on the table.

... you are talking like a socialist. Maybe if we scapegoat the gays that will solve the problem.

[ggait]

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

I've written this before.

My blue collar, HS diploma, Reagan Democrat father was fortunate to live in a workers paradise beyond Trotsky's wildest dreams.

Lifetime employment in a union job. Retired early when he was 63. Free post-retirement health care in addition to Medicare. Fully guaranteed pension in addition to Social Security. Government backed VA mortgage enabled him to buy a house for his young and growing family. College and grad school for his six kids was close to free. Never spent a dime on childcare since his one paycheck was enough to allow Mom to do that. Left his kids a nice inheritance including surprisingly big stock portfolio.

In the public sphere, my Dad benefited from the socialist policies of Ike, LBJ and Nixon: high taxes on corporations and the wealthy, much less income inequality, close to free college for his kids so no college debt, strong unions, etc.

Don't believe me? Here's Ike's 1956 Ike GOP platform:

1. Provide federal assistance to low-income communities;
2. Protect Social Security;
3. Provide asylum for refugees;
4. Extend minimum wage;
5. Improve unemployment benefit system so it covers more people;
6. Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union;
7. Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of sex.

Ike tells AOC and Bernie Sanders to hold my beer!!

My eyes roll every time some troll-ish Republican declares (e.g. Bill Barr) the horror/threat of the ruinous "socialist" agenda of the Dems. As it is, the US has one of the lower rates (as a % of GDP) of gov't spending among our OECD first world peer countries. And since our spend includes a huge tab for the military, our spend on support for working families is significantly lower.

I have no answers for this. But it is obvious that macro economic changes and our policies over the last 40 years have been sticking it to the working guy in favor of the wealthier educated (like me). It is no surprise that the Hillbilly Elegy folks are mad as hell.

But it is comical that their ire is trained on the libs. They throw their support to folks like Trump and JD Vance. Who tell them what they seem to want to hear (no critical race theory, no abortions, no gays, but more guns), who gladly take their votes and their money, and who keep laughing all the way to the bank on their tax dodges. Depreciation deductions for RE developers, and the carried interest loophole for VC and PE types.

[LandM]

MD,
"What charm do you know of Telluride??" Give me one example of the charm you think you know of - just one - been there 25 years - just one - name a name you know there - just one. Where did you stay and who do you know??? Respectively pls.

MD,
What hypocrisy did I speak of or mention - what was sarcastic about my post???? offensive or said that I was not serious about in my post? Just one.

Sea - +1 to MD post - do you know any of the general officers you have quoted hating the knucklehead - just one - any of them that you quoted - we might have mutual friends.

72 - I paid for my tax free college education through my service - you in a white lab coat - when attending your also alma mater - I talked people out of trees - Vietnam was long over. MBA

[MDlaxfan76]

MD,
"What charm do you know of Telluride??" Give me one example of the charm you think you know of - just one - been there 25 years - just one - name a name you know there - just one. Where did you stay and who do you know??? Respectively pls.

MD,
What hypocrisy did I speak of or mention - what was sarcastic about my post???? offensive or said that I was not serious about in my post? Just one.

Sea - +1 to MD post - do you know any of the general officers you have quoted hating the knucklehead - just one - any of them that you quoted - we might have mutual friends.

72 - I paid for my tax free college education through my service - you in a white lab coat - when attending your also alma mater - I talked people out of trees - Vietnam was long over. MBA

LandM,
My family spent 9 years of consecutive spring breaks skiing Telluride (son's lacrosse life interrupted that eventually...and my bad hips after that!); we've also been there twice during the summer, once during film festival. Have stayed in both Mountain Village and in town; also have friends who own there, in town. Yes, I find the place full of "charms", but of course certainly don't know it as well as you. Been a decade since we were there...hope we get back.

Not sure why that matters.

Your "hypocrisy" was your contradiction of yourself in encouraging others to just get along nicely while in the same post talking tough as if some kind of hard case... or blowhard. It was hypocritical...probably best that you go back and read what you wrote through that lens; others pointed out the same contradiction.

As I tried to communicate, theres all sorts of reasons to love this country and its people, and I'm sincerely glad for you that you have found opportunities to appreciate that, including the graduation of which you wrote, but I'd suggest that you lecturing others to not be highly concerned about preserving our beloved country's democracy is misplaced, just as it would be misplaced to lecture someone who has experienced bigotry that "it's no big deal" or "just go with the flow".

I have a feeling that you and I would have a wonderful time hoisting a couple by a campfire, so my attempt at communicating this is not to chastise, but rather to have a respectful discussion on topics on which I'm passionate. Please respect that in return.

[MDlaxfan76]

“The income distribution system of the 20th century has broken down, and will not come back. This has generated a new global class structure. Every phase of development produces its unique class structure. Today’s is characterised by a plutocracy of multi-billionaires with absurd power, a shrinking “salariat” with employment security and a growing array of non-wage benefits, a shrinking industrial “proletariat” and a rapidly growing “precariat.”

I've written this before.

My blue collar, HS diploma, Reagan Democrat father was fortunate to live in a workers paradise beyond Trotsky's wildest dreams.

Lifetime employment in a union job. Retired early when he was 63. Free post-retirement health care in addition to Medicare. Fully guaranteed pension in addition to Social Security. Government backed VA mortgage enabled him to buy a house for his young and growing family. College and grad school for his six kids was close to free. Never spent a dime on childcare since his one paycheck was enough to allow Mom to do that. Left his kids a nice inheritance including surprisingly big stock portfolio.

In the public sphere, my Dad benefited from the socialist policies of Ike, LBJ and Nixon: high taxes on corporations and the wealthy, much less income inequality, close to free college for his kids so no college debt, strong unions, etc.

Don't believe me? Here's Ike's 1956 Ike GOP platform:

1. Provide federal assistance to low-income communities;
2. Protect Social Security;
3. Provide asylum for refugees;
4. Extend minimum wage;
5. Improve unemployment benefit system so it covers more people;
6. Strengthen labor laws so workers can more easily join a union;
7. Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of sex.

Ike tells AOC and Bernie Sanders to hold my beer!!

My eyes roll every time some troll-ish Republican declares (e.g. Bill Barr) the horror/threat of the ruinous "socialist" agenda of the Dems. As it is, the US has one of the lower rates (as a % of GDP) of gov't spending among our OECD first world peer countries. And since our spend includes a huge tab for the military, our spend on support for working families is significantly lower.

I have no answers for this. But it is obvious that macro economic changes and our policies over the last 40 years have been sticking it to the working guy in favor of the wealthier educated (like me). It is no surprise that the Hillbilly Elegy folks are mad as hell.

But it is comical that their ire is trained on the libs. They throw their support to folks like Trump and JD Vance. Who tell them what they seem to want to hear (no critical race theory, no abortions, no gays, but more guns), who gladly take their votes and their money, and who keep laughing all the way to the bank on their tax dodges. Depreciation deductions for RE developers, and the carried interest loophole for VC and PE types.

great post; interesting perspective.

[LandM]

MD,
Thank you for your response.

Listened to Sam and the Festival last night - cold in NY and raining and cold in Telluride. Sam the man - still playing!!!!!!

I do not hoist anymore - age, nerve damage, and arthritis - sucks at 61 to be candid. BUT I will do a shot. Just one.

On this Fathers Day - my hat is off to you - you have always spoken highly of your dad "the VA tender" and your son "the Harvard tender". I never played lax - no lax in NV in the late 70's. I just made sure my rightie son knew how to use his left - learned that playing hoops:). I had the pleasure of playing against a few guys who wear yellow jackets occasionally when in OH and beating ND three years in a row:). Jerry Faust - serious HS football is NOT ND football.

We have ALL IMHO experienced prejudice, hypocrisy, stupidity and just about anything else along the way. It is life. You can Bi$th about it or just keep moving. I would rather agree to disagree and keep moving. My only request is if you want to put young people in harms way, experience the joy and pleasure of that - just go for the ride. I hope and think that is a simple request.

If you are ever in Canandaigua, Telluride, Penn State during football season - PM me - I will leave you my cell and would enjoy the conversation. TIX not to be snotty are on me.
Best

[LandM]

To ggait,
Are you seriously the lax player? Inquiring minds - mostly me - want to know.

Please let me respectfully counter your post. Not trolling.

I have attempted on numerous occasions to explain this:
1. I am a USAFA graduate - full college education - I even got paid monthly to attend class BUT - I never had a summer vacation; I was training to defend this country against those pesky Russians - this was in the early "80's - we still dealing with Russians????;
2. I had a paying job after graduation LT- - stationed in Sunnyvale CA - making $18,000 a year - 5 young LT's living in a house that we could afford - last guy home slept in the garage in his car - shuttle program - ALL of us started graduate school as to get ahead you need the Masters in the military;
3. We are living pay check to paycheck -we are sharing food - my civilian counter-parts are making double what I am making with scheduled hours and OT - me - I am getting up at 3AM to avoid the traffic to Sunnyvale;
4. Shuttle blows and I get the opportunity to go and do really cool stuff - but I still have that commitment - fast forward - dead buddies in Arlington and Sugar Land TX - you going to die on your job?. Best lesson I ever learned - NO ONE DIES whether we meet our deadlines or not;
5. I still have a commitment of 4 years for my education after the shuttle blows and now Masters classes - that is MY commitment - my commitment to YOU the taxpayer - my commitment for that education - what happens if you pay for "free College" - does this mean I have no commitment to you the taxpayer???? I can resign my commission and walk away - loving that.

My wife retired 34 years as a NY State engineer - number 3 woman in the State. She gave up the right to make more money - start a female owned business and make $1 million a year or get a steady paycheck every other Friday, benefits, a retirement every two weeks - I think it is pretty cool being married to that. I love it - no risk YET NO reward. I run into young people ALL day long, they want to work on their time and their schedule - parking a car in garage with a chicken in the pot is LOOOOONg gone - Ike was 1956 - hello 2022. Those were different days and different times IMHO.

I have NOT had a paycheck in 25 years - my money comes when I sell a business through my hard-work and effort - my SSN when we decide to to take it is double my wife's. You gotta love capitalism. It is a IMHO a new business model. If you live in the past you die - just an opinion. Off to mass.

[LandM]

One last thing before mass:
1. My dad was a retired E-9 - 5 kids - no money;
2. My mom who was the rock stated every day for the one meal of pancakes - sour dough - we were going to college - yet neither of my parents did;
3. My sister was excepted to Harvard Law - no Title9 - no money - she worked with homeless people;
4. All 5 kids graduated from college and all 5 kids have Masters degrees;

It ain't rocket science - no one owes me or anyone else anything. The greatest country in the world allows people who want to be or do something an opportunity. If you want a union job and happy with that - God Bless you - want to do something more - that opportunity exists. That I believe is the American way and I would hope that we could all defend. No one will ever argue over my charitable contributions - money I spend doing what I want to do with money that I have earned through hard-work and dedication.

[Seacoaster(1)]

One last thing before mass:
1. My dad was a retired E-9 - 5 kids - no money;
2. My mom who was the rock stated every day for the one meal of pancakes - sour dough - we were going to college - yet neither of my parents did;
3. My sister was excepted to Harvard Law - no Title9 - no money - she worked with homeless people;
4. All 5 kids graduated from college and all 5 kids have Masters degrees;

It ain't rocket science - no one owes me or anyone else anything. The greatest country in the world allows people who want to be or do something an opportunity. If you want a union job and happy with that - God Bless you - want to do something more - that opportunity exists. That I believe is the American way and I would hope that we could all defend. No one will ever argue over my charitable contributions - money I spend doing what I want to do with money that I have earned through hard-work and dedication.

Sounds like you've lived a good and full life. So there was no reason to disparage folks who haven't served, don't know a general officer, and believe that the January 6 hearings are important. But sure, off to Church with you. Perfect.

[LandM]

Sea,
I do not advertise nor be a billboard of my prior experience (this place excluded and I am not sure why) I will say to you and anyone else who may know of my past, "Thank you for paying your tax dollars, thank you - I am indebted to you".

I am NOT trying to degrade anyone - BUT if folks are going to come out and puff a chest or quote people - please know whom they are quoting. My father who is long gone, went 4 times to a foreign land in defense of "democracy" in defense of stopping the "commies". Twice he came back and got spit on, ridiculed, harangued, and worse. He never got that thank you. I am not degrading you or anyone else who never put a uniform on - makes no difference to me - but if you are going to quote Generals to advance an argument over your hatred of a person, please know something about who you are quoting. If you are going to say we need to go full bore and send troops and money for a "just" cause please know whose sons and daughters are going to go and fight. Vietnam - stop communism - really????

To this thread. I find it appalling as to now knowing that the Steele work; the NY Times stories about the FBI investigating Trump in the "October" surprise; and the myriad of Russian peddling was just that. I find it extremely heartening that Trumps inner circle actually were defending democracy by telling him he lost and to move on - contrary to what the news organizations were writing. I find it sad that three LAWYERS (one who seems to not be sober) fed the ego of a guy who could NOT admit he lost. I find it more worrisome that another LAWYER got off because a jury of his peers thinks it is "ok" to lie to the FBI. Neither Trump or Clinton are worthy to lead this country. Staying quiet on the rest.

MOSTLY I find it hopeful that we will overcome, we have seen worse and we will prevail, warts and all. Happy Fathers Day to all.

[a fan]

5. I still have a commitment of 4 years for my education after the shuttle blows and now Masters classes - that is MY commitment - my commitment to YOU the taxpayer - my commitment for that education - what happens if you pay for "free College" - does this mean I have no commitment to you the taxpayer???? I can resign my commission and walk away - loving that.

I've explained this before----this is the conservative solution to getting our kids training/college: 4 years FTE of community service. Fake problem solved. Teach them to code, weld, or practice law for free. And they're on the hook for every credit hour taken, regardless of graduation.

I run into young people ALL day long, they want to work on their time and their schedule - parking a car in garage with a chicken in the pot is LOOOOONg gone - Ike was 1956 - hello 2022. Those were different days and different times IMHO.

Yes. Those jobs don't exist anymore. The question we are debating is: what do we do to fix these problems here in 2022?

How do we educate and get the bottom 50% earners into good jobs? A hospital visit in 1956 cost what you had in most American's wallet.

Here in 2022? It's several years work for most Americans to stay in a hospital for a day or two.

We're not fixing our problems anymore like we did in the 40's and 50's. Roosevelt did. Know what he did? Signed the GI Bill.....free college (well, for whites, anyway) for veterans. Gave us the biggest economic boom the world has ever seen.

Lets do that again. But add in welders, plumber, electricians, computer coders, and fill the millions of jobs that we have open here in the US.

And like LandM? Make them pay for this education with community service.

[a fan]

I find it appalling as to now knowing that the Steele work; the NY Times stories about the FBI investigating Trump in the "October" surprise; and the myriad of Russian peddling was just that.

They investigated TeamTrump because everything they did had the stench of corruption...and the all lied about EVERYTHING.

Are you telling me that if you're the head of the FBI, that you're not going to investigate Paul Manafort when Trump hires him?

1. your intel tells you that Putin has been actively meddling in the our elections
2. Trump makes the Republican final cut for the R nominee for POTUS
3. Trump names Manafort as his campaign manager, out of nowhere. Who the F is Paul Manafort is question #1 for Comey?
4. Manafort, to answer that question, had just been paid to help install one of Putin's puppets into power in Ukraine.

Now you're telling me with a straight face that if you're Comey, you wouldn't look into Manafort?

And good thing they DID look into him. Manafort was lying about his financial dealings in Ukraine, and the money he took from Putin's toadies to give Putin what he wanted in Ukraine.

Anyone with a brain that takes our country's security serious would investigate Manafort. And then right after that? Trump Jr. and Kushner for hosting a Russian Spy in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt on Hillary Clinton. Oh and "whoops" Kush "forgot" to report this meeting until after the election. A completely honest mistake, for sure.

They TRIED to work with Russians, LandM----and this is by Kush's own admission to US Intel. You get that, right?

[Peter Brown]

I find it appalling as to now knowing that the Steele work; the NY Times stories about the FBI investigating Trump in the "October" surprise; and the myriad of Russian peddling was just that.

They investigated TeamTrump because everything they did had the stench of corruption...and the all lied about EVERYTHING.

Are you telling me that if you're the head of the FBI, that you're not going to investigate Paul Manafort when Trump hires him?

1. your intel tells you that Putin has been actively meddling in the our elections
2. Trump makes the Republican final cut for the R nominee for POTUS
3. Trump names Manafort as his campaign manager, out of nowhere. Who the F is Paul Manafort is question #1 for Comey?
4. Manafort, to answer that question, had just been paid to help install one of Putin's puppets into power in Ukraine.

Now you're telling me with a straight face that if you're Comey, you wouldn't look into Manafort?

And good thing they DID look into him. Manafort was lying about his financial dealings in Ukraine, and the money he took from Putin's toadies to give Putin what he wanted in Ukraine.

Anyone with a brain that takes our country's security serious would investigate Manafort. And then right after that? Trump Jr. and Kushner for hosting a Russian Spy in Trump Tower in the hopes of getting dirt on Hillary Clinton. Oh and "whoops" Kush "forgot" to report this meeting until after the election. A completely honest mistake, for sure.

They TRIED to work with Russians, LandM----and this is by Kush's own admission to US Intel. You get that, right?

Bizarrely revealing post.

Sure, Manafort is a slime ball, a fan. Well give you that.

So why did you arrest Papadopolous? Was Carter Page capable of lifting a pair of socks at TJ Maxx? The guy is brain dead.

But your squad holds up every hyperventilating arrest like you’ve cracked the greatest caper in history. Even Manafort isn’t capable of much beyond a 7-11 slurpee heist.

You guys get clowned not simply for wasting taxpayer funds, but snap because you’re hysterical like teenage girls seeing Paul, Ringo, George, and John for the first time. Except you did it about 1,000x. So we clown you mercilessly.

There’s a massive gulf between being a class A jerk like Manafort, versus an historical conspiracy to upend the Republic. Your unending hysterics over the tiniest matter meant very few outside your echo chamber take you seriously. On this website alone, CU88 reposts literal braindead nonsense from Heather Richardson Cox, apparently unaware no one treats Heather as anything other than a rabid partisan clown who long ago abandoned any pretense at being a sober analyst. One of the lefts favorite other historians, Kevin Kruse of Princeton, just got busted for being a plagiarist. He used to tweet a couple hundred times a day accusing Republicans of the same nonsense you and JHU72 do here every day, but now he’s in hiding.

[MDlaxfan76]

So much for Petey staying away...

[a fan]

Bizarrely revealing post.

Yep. It reveals that you don't pay attention to ANYTHING in your life.

If you paid any attention, you would find that I didn't believe they'd find any collusion (or whatever word you choose) between Trump and Putin...and this was during the Comey investigation...before Mueller. And I restated that belief before Muller started his waste of time.

But that's not what LandM is discussing, and that's not what FoxNation has been discussing.

The discussion point is: was the FBI correct in investigating these clowns?

That's it. That's the question. And you yourself just said "yep", when it came to Manafort.

You can't hire a guy who was just paid millions by Putin to install his political toady in Ukraine as your campaign manager and not have US Intel up his *ss in a New York minute.

That's it. It's that simple. It would have been negligent and corrupt for US Intel to NOT open a case on Manafort.

And guess what? They found Manafort was trying to hide his work with Putin.


So to answer the above question: was the FBI correct in investigating these clown? The answer is a resounding yes.


And yep, Manafort wasn't trying to get Putin inside the White House, or anything like that. He was just another greedy, lying idiot. No espionage intended. Just a moron...but that doesn't mean the FBI should not have opened a case on him.

Same goes with Kush and Trump Jr. meeting with a Russian spy in Trump Tower, looking for dirt on Hillary. Yep, turns out that they were just two immoral POS morons who don't know right from wrong. But that doesn't mean that they didn't try and work with Russians on the election, Pete.

Your team used to go BANANAS over revelations like this. But in 2020? You and your idiotic party sat idly by as they listened to Kush explain that "yep, we met with that Russian spy, looking for dirt on Hillary"......and then proceeded to get full classified clearance so he could work for the American people.

And instead of being ashamed? You guys cheered it on. Sweet. Doing a great job, Pete.