All Things Russia & Ukraine

[a fan]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

[old salt]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

I'm not implying anything. We (the US) encouraged Ukraine & Georgia to seek NATO membership. ...before Putin annexed Crimea.

[runrussellrun]

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/

Did you even bother reading any of these? Sanctions against VERY specific named individuals and businesses are NOT sanctions against the entire country. And, I am talking about ones prior to late January, 2017.

[a fan]

Again: so what? What's the problem?

We're free to invite anyone we wish into NATO.

[runrussellrun]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

It appears that you want war with Putin and russia. Nothing else will do. What does the Ugandan PM say about Putin and the Ukraine? That' handsome guy up in Canada, Trudeau.....what's he think about all this?

[a fan]

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/

Did you even bother reading any of these? Sanctions against VERY specific named individuals and businesses are NOT sanctions against the entire country. And, I am talking about ones prior to late January, 2017.

It's a Kleptocracy. You're hitting the decision makers.

Of course I read the links. You're acting like they're no big deal. Such a "no big deal" that Flynn was willing to lie about even discussing their removal.

[runrussellrun]

Again: so what? What's the problem?

We're free to invite anyone we wish into NATO.

How about kicking countries out? Turkey is such a great allies . They really, really are.

[a fan]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

It appears that you want war with Putin and russia. Nothing else will do. What does the Ugandan PM say about Putin and the Ukraine? That' handsome guy up in Canada, Trudeau.....what's he think about all this?

You too, huh? So the Ukraine is owned by Putin, and doesn't get to do whatever they wish, huh? Why call it the Ukraine at all? Why not just Russia?

Any other countries on this list of yours and old salt's that I need to know about?

[runrussellrun]

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/

Did you even bother reading any of these? Sanctions against VERY specific named individuals and businesses are NOT sanctions against the entire country. And, I am talking about ones prior to late January, 2017.

It's a Kleptocracy. You're hitting the decision makers.

Of course I read the links. You're acting like they're no big deal. Such a "no big deal" that Flynn was willing to lie about even discussing their removal.

Right, b/c it's so hard to set up dummy corporations and the like..........
Who owns the rocket factories, the ones we buy the rockets from....Vita Sidorkina?

https://weheartit.com/entry/237512619

[runrussellrun]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

It appears that you want war with Putin and russia. Nothing else will do. What does the Ugandan PM say about Putin and the Ukraine? That' handsome guy up in Canada, Trudeau.....what's he think about all this?

You too, huh? So the Ukraine is owned by Putin, and doesn't get to do whatever they wish, huh? Why call it the Ukraine at all? Why not just Russia?

Any other countries on this list of yours and old salt's that I need to know about?

So...you DO want war with Russia. you didn't deny it. Clearly, the sanctions against a handful of russian whatever you called them.......ain't changing their minds. Maybe a visit from Jimmy Morales will change Putins mind.

[a fan]

So...you DO want war with Russia. you didn't deny it. Clearly, the sanctions against a handful of russian whatever you called them.......ain't changing their minds.

No. I don't want war with Russia. But this is a proportional response. You're acting like it's not hurting. Clearly it's on their minds, no? Why else talk to Flynn?

[runrussellrun]

So...you DO want war with Russia. you didn't deny it. Clearly, the sanctions against a handful of russian whatever you called them.......ain't changing their minds.

No. I don't want war with Russia. But this is a proportional response. You're acting like it's not hurting. Clearly it's on their minds, no? Why else talk to Flynn?

You're still evading the question. Sanctions on Russia. As in none (prior to tRump)

Just like there were NONE, for an act of war against the USA, when China hacked the OPM. Obama THOUGHT about sanctions on china.....but.

[a fan]

Pretend you're me. I've sold spirits in Russia.

If you're me, would you invest any money marketing your wares in Russia, or invest in expanding sales?

These sanctions are hurting Russia. If you don't understand that, I can't help you.

[old salt]

Great! So if NATO doesn't want them in, what's the problem?

What YOU are implying is that Ukraine shouldn't get to choose, and Putin owns their rights. That is what I'm rejecting.

It appears that you want war with Putin and russia. Nothing else will do. What does the Ugandan PM say about Putin and the Ukraine? That' handsome guy up in Canada, Trudeau.....what's he think about all this?

You too, huh? So the Ukraine is owned by Putin, and doesn't get to do whatever they wish, huh? Why call it the Ukraine at all? Why not just Russia?

Any other countries on this list of yours and old salt's that I need to know about?

Ukraine was the heart of the USSR's military industrial complex.
1/3 of the Soviet military officer corps were Ukrainian.
They should be able to defend themselves, but they're as corrupt as Russia.
We stupidly agreed to defend them if they gave up their nucs.
...another of our foolish post Cold War promises we can't keep.

Why else talk to Flynn?

Syria, Ukrainian peace plan, N Korea.

Pretend you're me. I've sold spirits in Russia.

If you're me, would you invest any money marketing your wares in Russia, or invest in expanding sales?

Don't feel bad. Trump vodka was a flop there too.

[a fan]

Ukraine was the heart of the USSR's military industrial complex.
1/3 of the Soviet military officer corps were Ukrainian.
They should be able to defend themselves, but they're as corrupt as Russia.
We stupidly agreed to defend them if they gave up their nucs.

One fewer country with nukes. Sounds like we came out of that deal just fine.

Pretend you're me. I've sold spirits in Russia.

If you're me, would you invest any money marketing your wares in Russia, or invest in expanding sales?

Don't feel bad. Trump vodka was a flop there too.

Our spirits sold fine. Our distributor folded up his tent. Why? Because Russia's a mess, and is economically unstable. It's risky as hell to invest in that country....you have no clue what other sanctions or other shenanigans could arrive with no notice. Plenty of other markets to sell our wares...and we're not the only country in the world to think like this, obviously.

THAT is why Russians want a clean bill of health and a return to normalized relations. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has taken out Putin for his stupidity. Business. It's always about business and money over there.

[6ftstick]

Ukraine was the heart of the USSR's military industrial complex.
1/3 of the Soviet military officer corps were Ukrainian.
They should be able to defend themselves, but they're as corrupt as Russia.
We stupidly agreed to defend them if they gave up their nucs.

One fewer country with nukes. Sounds like we came out of that deal just fine.

Pretend you're me. I've sold spirits in Russia.

If you're me, would you invest any money marketing your wares in Russia, or invest in expanding sales?

Don't feel bad. Trump vodka was a flop there too.

Our spirits sold fine. Our distributor folded up his tent. Why? Because Russia's a mess, and is economically unstable. It's risky as hell to invest in that country....you have no clue what other sanctions or other shenanigans could arrive with no notice. Plenty of other markets to sell our wares...and we're not the only country in the world to think like this, obviously.

THAT is why Russians want a clean bill of health and a return to normalized relations. Frankly, I'm surprised no one has taken out Putin for his stupidity. Business. It's always about business and money over there.

So YOU colluded with the Ruskies!

[a fan]

Oh, I did my level best!

[OCanada]

Sanctions have an effect. They have hurt Russia. Does Russia want war with us? Until now that was a concern. I doubt it is anymore.

[old salt]

Does Russia want war with us? Until now that was a concern. I doubt it is anymore.

Then why do we have to spend $100 million every 9 mos rotating an Armored Brigade back & forth to Poland ?

...while our German allies won't even roll their tanks out of their Kasernes.

[OCanada]

Well it would be helpful if you were familiar with how NATO cane about.

If the question is why NATO in the first place my response is WWl and WWll and the rebuilding of Europe. It has been a spectacular success. Russia tried very hard to prevent NATO in the first place. Breaking up NATO or at least driving wedges in it and creating divisions has been one of Russian Foreign Policy prioritize fur more than six decades. Since trump took office NATO has been been weakened and divisions created. It has had the support of every administration since it was founded in the 1950s.

I can’t speak to the tactical movement of one unit or another. I do know as Russia has become much more aggressive in projecting power since Putin assumed office the need is as great as it ever was.

NATO since inception would not have prevented the USSR from rolling over Europe. It gave us skin in the game, helped drive economic growth, helped drive integration and develop a consensus and rule set thatchas worked for decades. It serves our interests and would hurt our interests if it weakens. It is far more important than tactical movements