The Final: UNC v. BC 5/29/22 Noon

[njbill]

The head scratcher here is that there are 4 Refs for a Championship game. How did one of the 3 other Refs not step up to help? Aldave was closer, no question about it. SMH….

If you know anything about Larry, no one is overturning his calls. He’ll happily step in and overrule another officials call but there could have been 10 refs on the field and that call wasn’t being changed.

^^^This^^^

I know Carr is from the Baltimore area so you guys have probably seen him ref more games than I have, though I’ve seen him a couple of dozen times over the years.

I first saw him doing IAAM games. The fact that he was assigned to the final game says to me that the NCAA Officiating Gods think he’s a good official.

What is your beef with him?

I’m not an official and I am only generally familiar with how they do their work, but I believe under their protocols, one official is considered the “lead“ for a particular play. Don’t know if he was the lead on this play. Just guessing, but I’d think a call made by the lead official would stand unless he or she is talked out of it. Similarly, I would guess the lead official on a play may overrule a call made by another official.

My understanding is that if another official disagrees with a call one of his or her partners makes, they blow a whistle and then conference. They either work it out or, if they can’t, then they rule that the conflicting calls offset and go to the possession arrow. By the way, I kinda liked the old throw, but I guess that one has been relegated to the dust bin.

Back in the laxpower days, we had officials who were posters who could weigh in on a situation like this. I don’t think we have them anymore, unless they are lurking.

Not sure of this, but it seems neither of the other two refs thought a different call was appropriate in this instance. At least they didn’t conference.

[njbill]

This is kind of stupid, but I just thought of this.

What would happen on one of those teeny tiny fields where the draw circle almost touches the restraining line if the ball went directly from the two centers all the way to a goalie who caught it? Would the goalie get a draw control and a save on the same play?

[wlaxphan20]

This is kind of stupid, but I just thought of this.

What would happen on one of those teeny tiny fields where the draw circle almost touches the restraining line if the ball went directly from the two centers all the way to a goalie who caught it? Would the goalie get a draw control and a save on the same play?

Do you record the opposing center for a shot?

[njbill]

Haha. You betcha. A shot and a SOG.

[tothedraw]

Haha. You betcha. A shot and a SOG.
[/quota


And a turnover?

[user1020]

Congrats to UNC on a stellar year and their championship. Very similar story like on the mens side with both teams going undefeated after only losing one game last year. Main difference is UNC lost in semis last year and UMD mens lost in the championship.

[laxphan22]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is. The ref says to straighten out the stick and the UNC player does it until the ref looks back to the set. I think that evolution is necessary. Everyone says that the way to the grow the game is getting it on ESPN (college softball model). In order to do that, games need to fit into a 2 hour time frame. Draw happens at the beginning of the game. After that, it is score and goalie clears. There is too much variation in how each ref sets it, what they let go, and what is called.

[tothedraw]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is. The ref says to straighten out the stick and the UNC player does it until the ref looks back to the set. I think that evolution is necessary. Everyone says that the way to the grow the game is getting it on ESPN (college softball model). In order to do that, games need to fit into a 2 hour time frame. Draw happens at the beginning of the game. After that, it is score and goalie clears. There is too much variation in how each ref sets it, what they let go, and what is called.

I get that, it can take too long to set up. You saw UNC, I heard North repeatedly warned to get hand off head of stick. Start carding for repeated delays.

There is this - when struggling to clear against a team and then getting scored on a team would rather go back to the 50 to possibly a stronger draw player. Being forced to clear full field can be a disadvantage.

[wlaxphan20]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is. The ref says to straighten out the stick and the UNC player does it until the ref looks back to the set. I think that evolution is necessary. Everyone says that the way to the grow the game is getting it on ESPN (college softball model). In order to do that, games need to fit into a 2 hour time frame. Draw happens at the beginning of the game. After that, it is score and goalie clears. There is too much variation in how each ref sets it, what they let go, and what is called.

I get that, it can take too long to set up. You saw UNC, I heard North repeatedly warned to get hand off head of stick. Start carding for repeated delays.

There is this - when struggling to clear against a team and then getting scored on a team would rather go back to the 50 to possibly a stronger draw player. Being forced to clear full field can be a disadvantage.

There is also the possibility of scoring and gaining possession again with the draw, which gives teams a chance to come back

[tothedraw]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is. The ref says to straighten out the stick and the UNC player does it until the ref looks back to the set. I think that evolution is necessary. Everyone says that the way to the grow the game is getting it on ESPN (college softball model). In order to do that, games need to fit into a 2 hour time frame. Draw happens at the beginning of the game. After that, it is score and goalie clears. There is too much variation in how each ref sets it, what they let go, and what is called.

I get that, it can take too long to set up. You saw UNC, I heard North repeatedly warned to get hand off head of stick. Start carding for repeated delays.

There is this - when struggling to clear against a team and then getting scored on a team would rather go back to the 50 to possibly a stronger draw player. Being forced to clear full field can be a disadvantage.

There is also the possibility of scoring and gaining possession again with the draw, which gives teams a chance to come back

Absolutely.

I'm not really advocating changing the draw was more interested in what original poster thought. I think it's an exciting part of the game.

[wlaxphan20]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is. The ref says to straighten out the stick and the UNC player does it until the ref looks back to the set. I think that evolution is necessary. Everyone says that the way to the grow the game is getting it on ESPN (college softball model). In order to do that, games need to fit into a 2 hour time frame. Draw happens at the beginning of the game. After that, it is score and goalie clears. There is too much variation in how each ref sets it, what they let go, and what is called.

I get that, it can take too long to set up. You saw UNC, I heard North repeatedly warned to get hand off head of stick. Start carding for repeated delays.

There is this - when struggling to clear against a team and then getting scored on a team would rather go back to the 50 to possibly a stronger draw player. Being forced to clear full field can be a disadvantage.

There is also the possibility of scoring and gaining possession again with the draw, which gives teams a chance to come back

Absolutely.

I'm not really advocating changing the draw was more interested in what original poster thought. I think it's an exciting part of the game.

I hear what OP is saying as well. It’s frustrating to see them correct players only for the players to go back to their original position once the official looks away. Sometimes they keep correcting it and other times it feels like they just throw their hands up as if to say “this is as good as it’s going to get”. I agree with some type of penalty if players are being difficult when the draw is being set.

[hmmm]

The head scratcher here is that there are 4 Refs for a Championship game. How did one of the 3 other Refs not step up to help? Aldave was closer, no question about it. SMH….

If you know anything about Larry, no one is overturning his calls. He’ll happily step in and overrule another officials call but there could have been 10 refs on the field and that call wasn’t being changed.

^^^This^^^

I know Carr is from the Baltimore area so you guys have probably seen him ref more games than I have, though I’ve seen him a couple of dozen times over the years.

I first saw him doing IAAM games. The fact that he was assigned to the final game says to me that the NCAA Officiating Gods think he’s a good official.

What is your beef with him?

I’m not an official and I am only generally familiar with how they do their work, but I believe under their protocols, one official is considered the “lead“ for a particular play. Don’t know if he was the lead on this play. Just guessing, but I’d think a call made by the lead official would stand unless he or she is talked out of it. Similarly, I would guess the lead official on a play may overrule a call made by another official.

My understanding is that if another official disagrees with a call one of his or her partners makes, they blow a whistle and then conference. They either work it out or, if they can’t, then they rule that the conflicting calls offset and go to the possession arrow. By the way, I kinda liked the old throw, but I guess that one has been relegated to the dust bin.

Back in the laxpower days, we had officials who were posters who could weigh in on a situation like this. I don’t think we have them anymore, unless they are lurking.

Not sure of this, but it seems neither of the other two refs thought a different call was appropriate in this instance. At least they didn’t conference.

Yes, my daughter played in the IAAM and have seen Larry ref many a HS and college game. No beef with him. He's a known quantity. He likes to insert himself in the game from time to time when it's not needed. All in all he's a good official IMO. He's a bit inconsistent game to game but once you see how he's calling the game he usually sticks to it for the remainder of that game. Some games he likes to hand out cards like candy, other games you can get away with just about anything. I think Larry thinks he is the lead official even if it's not necessarily the case. I've seen him overrule other officials many, many times. Never seen the reverse happen. Even is he makes a mistake and another official brings it to his attention and they huddle I can't say I've ever seen him relent and change his call. That's what my point was.

[Bart]

Or make them watch film from the old days when draws were 11 on 11 battles. Then they’ll appreciate, and probably quickly understand, the current draw rules.

Let us look in on what it looked like at each restraining line when the whistle blew back in the 11 v 11 draw battles.

So much better now and curious what laxphan22 would do to change it even more. Make it like soccer or basketball ?
I spent 5 minutes explaining the men's offsides and failed clear rules to a friend today. Didn't turn her off from the game.

Frankly, having the ref mic'd up shows how arbitrary it is.

And of you look from game to game almost every single rule has arbitrary aspect to it. Games called differently from different refs, with in the game and between games. What is a charge one day is not the next. Shooting space? Whoa.......if you have problems understanding the draw then these fans may just loose their shzit over this. Should we just get rid of that? It is all part of having the human element in the game to me.

Ultimately the refs have an ability to control the draw circle. Player does not listen....card her. It really is in their hands.

[Laxfan500]

great game, great weekend. Congrats to UNC for completing their undefeated season. Really hard to beat a team 3 times in a season, especially the caliber of BC. Geiersbach may be the MVP of the final 4 - scored the last 4 of the NW game and the first 2 of this game to set the tone.

Insane that they beat BC 3 times in a season with the supposed GOAT CN at the helm..where do we rank this UNC team among the greats? What they did this season is insane and very hard to do, especially in the shot clock era. The MD and NU teams of yesteryear lose points for playing stall ball. Still those teams were legendary. I'd put them top 3. In terms of raw talent on paper they're probably number 1.

UNC is 43-1 over their last two seasons with their only loss coming to BC on last year’s semi final. That’s one heck of a team.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/20 ... ega-moreno
Nice article on the “fab four”

[user1020]

great game, great weekend. Congrats to UNC for completing their undefeated season. Really hard to beat a team 3 times in a season, especially the caliber of BC. Geiersbach may be the MVP of the final 4 - scored the last 4 of the NW game and the first 2 of this game to set the tone.

Insane that they beat BC 3 times in a season with the supposed GOAT CN at the helm..where do we rank this UNC team among the greats? What they did this season is insane and very hard to do, especially in the shot clock era. The MD and NU teams of yesteryear lose points for playing stall ball. Still those teams were legendary. I'd put them top 3. In terms of raw talent on paper they're probably number 1.

UNC is 43-1 over their last two seasons with their only loss coming to BC on last year’s semi final. That’s one heck of a team.

https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/20 ... ega-moreno
Nice article on the “fab four”

Great accomplishment, but SRG is in their class too, so how do you but mention her in that article

[wlaxphan20]

Viewership numbers:

-428,000 viewers on ESPN
-592,000 peak viewers



According to this source, which is not ESPN so take it with a hopeful grain of salt: https://twitter.com/fos/status/15321206 ... cyLLR4Iglw

[ThreeSeconds]

The million dollar question is how was Referee Jodi Michna allowed to ref a SemiFinal and the Final game? She was part of the crew who allowed the goal in the Denver vs BC game that was obviously on the outside of the net and not overturned. How does she get rewarded with the “Super Bowl” of Women’s D1 lacrosse game? The NCAA needs to clean this up.