2022 Tewaaraton Finalists

[Laxfan500]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

Are you saying that JO was not the focus of everyone’s defense last year I beg to differ she was doubled and tripled every single game and still managed to wrack up the points goals and assists that she did and let’s not forget faceguarded the entire champ game . SG had the hot hand and weaker defenders and JO who is the consummate team player realized that and did everything she could to help her TEAM win. North is a “me”
Player no matter what everyone thinks . Didn’t have ball last - what? 8 minutes of game ? and certainly wasn’t getting the ball - when she consistently demands it ?
how does the best player not have the ball every possession in a 1 goal game ??? She’s got the flashiest shot and she can do a lot with the ball but don’t think it’s not first and for-most all about CN .
It’s so funny all of these North supporters they think she’s the only player in the world - the best at every single thing she does she’s a very talented player but she’s not the best overall Attacker she wasn’t the ACC attacker of the year JO was and she didn’t Beat BC three times JO and her team did.

Not sure why people are saying best all round attacker. Means nothing. It is not a the best attacker award. How did JO do on the draws? In my experience watching UNC games and BC games I was always surprised at how much more attention CN got from opposing defenses. I always felt the attention given to JO was not nearly the same. BC v UNC games are not a good example because BC always locks someone off. Perhaps it's because of CN's style of play and the fact that she is a scorer and less of a distributor. I would love for someone to go back and analyze the defensive game plans against each player. I have been watching lax for a long time and I have never seen anyone receive more game planning than CN. That includes Treanor and Cummings.

Unc only ever had 1-1 on North . Sometimes would slide
Never a FG.

[LarryGamLax]

Does anyone know if there was ever a women’s finalist who had the chance to repeat as Tewaaraton winner and was not chosen?

IMO...Kate Schwarzmann after winning in 2012, should not have won in 2013. And Taylor Cummings should not have won, for the third time in 2016. She didn't play well in the Final and Maryland lost to UNC. However, it seems that the winner of the award had already been decided.

[Can Opener]

In response to CO, again, the Tewaaraton is not an offensive statistical award. If it were, Hormes would win this year.

Your description of North’s shot at the 4 min mark is incorrect. The goalie’s stick moved slightly from goalie right to left, but had it remained completely motionless, the shot would have either hit the edge of her stick or her helmet. The shot would not have gone in. It was bad placement pure and simple. It was definitely not headed toward the upper right corner.

When you evaluate a shot, you look at (at least) two things. First, where was the shooter on the field relative to the goalie and the defenders. Second, where was the shot placed relative to the goalie. Here there is no question North was in a good position to shoot. You want your attacker to take that shot. But her placement was poor. Several other locations were open, but she shot it (nearly if you must) directly into the goalie’s stick and at her helmet.

The seven seconds on the shot clock isn’t particularly relevant as she was in a good spot to shoot the ball. You’d want your attacker taking that shot regardless of where the shot clock was.

Does the fact that North took that one bad shot disqualify her from winning the Tewaaraton? Of course not. But it’s not irrelevant that she shot 0-2 in the fourth quarter of a tied National Championship game. Even SSB commented "where is North?" (not those exact words, but words to that effect). Ortega, on the other hand, scored a goal in the fourth quarter that tied the game up. Does that one goal mean she should win? No, but again, not irrelevant. North had four goals in the game, Ortega two (and she was face guarded). But of those two players, Ortega unquestionably had the biggest goal.

OK, I get it. When I discuss North, I’m criticizing her. When you talk down Ortega or Mastroianni relative to North you aren’t criticizing them.

So it’s “constructive” for you to call me “really creepy” time and time again, “absurd,” a “hater,” and on and on, but you get upset if I refer to you as “clueless” or “relatively ignorant.” Yeah, OK.

My “cluelessness” comment was in response to you saying you don’t know if I think you are really North’s father. So, yes, “clueless” is an entirely appropriate description of your statement.

As to your “relatively ignorant” point, I said “your posts reveal a relative (relative to other posters here) ignorance of the women's game.” I stand by that. If I posted something on the men’s side that revealed my “relative ignorance,” I’d have no problem with you calling me out just as you did when I suggested the men replace the face plant with the draw.

As to Dmac's comment, I actually do think it was the biggest shot of her life. NCAA finals, four mins to go, team down by one. The only other time she was in an NCAA finals was last year and given the score of that game, I don’t think she had a bigger shot than the last one she took on Sunday.

Poor Bill, Poor sweet Bill. Since our dust-up last year over your unrelenting negativism toward the best women's college lacrosse player in the land, I have tried to find a middle ground. My posts this year have been typed with one hand on the keyboard and the other on an olive branch. I have tried to be diplomatic since you quit FanLax forever when your head exploded because a noob like me with only 35+ years of following women's lacrosse could accurately forecast a CN Tewaaraton win, a BC natty and a spot on the national team for North. So you took your ball and went home, only to figure out that playing wall ball is not as fun as playing real games. I am sincerely glad you are back. You have posted a couple of rational takes, but it seems the darker angels of the Vince Lombardi rest stop have lured you back into their van. The only view more distorted than the one through the teardrop windows in the back of the van is the view through eyes red and burning with irrational ire. Not even the usual members of the Amen Chorus are coming to your side on your hot take about CN whiffing on her big shot. (Test, test. One two. Is this mic on? Seacoaster? LARRY GAM LAX? 500? Did North blow "the biggest shot of her life," firing "directly into the goalie's stick?") I have tried to be polite with you since your return, but if you don't want to play the game that way, then let's go. Last go 'round left you sucking your thumb, curled in the fetal position, muttering something about the Admin being a meanie. Last chance for a truce. Otherwise, prepare for an onslaught of profoundly clueless and relatively ignorant logic. As the trustees in Rahway say, "We can do this the hard way or the easy way. Either way the end result will be the same." Your call, big boy.

[njbill]

When you can't win the argument, hurl insults.

I see the leopard hasn't changed his spots. I've tried debating with you rationally, but you are a lost cause. And now it's 35 years of following women's lacrosse? Last year it was, what, two or three years, since your daughter became interested?

The video is there for all to see. In color. I merely brought it up because of your incessant insistence on looking only at the stats you think favor North and your denigrating the FF performance Ortega had.

I'm done. Go ahead and respond with more of your typical insults if you like.

[tothedraw]

No dog in this fight per say but... North took a surprisingly inaccurate shot in that moment. Was it the biggest of her career- how do you define that? . She did not chase well when UNC won the last draw. People at my house questioned whether she had tweaked her quad/hamstring. Which is what I think she dealt with late season.

Based on this season only, if I had a vote, it would go with Ortega.

[LarryGamLax]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. njBill doesn't have to like Charlotte North and no one should try to make him feel like he's done something wrong because he does not like her style of play. I have no problem with him not liking her. When I think he's wrong about something she does, I tell him. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.


I don't want you or ONW to apologize for jack. Just stick to Lacrosse.

And to boot, Charlotte is an outstanding player, but not the greatest ever...or even the best this season. I say Ortega is the best Attacker this season.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.

You have a short memory, Larry. Just yesterday you called me a putz. What are we to derive from that? It's okay for you to engage in name calling but not others?

Why do you have to be such a putz to someone that is universally liked and respected?
What?...not enough BC drooling for you? Do not mess with Sheehan! Keep it movin ONW!

Also--I think CO's assessment of what happened 11 months ago was accurate. Not flattering, but a good remembrance of how things (fake) ended back in June of '21.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I don't think it was a good shot. Barely a fake and broke the cardinal rule--make the goalie move. North had a clear open lane to shoot but there was no fake and no making Moreno move. Moreno obviously moved her stick, and she made a great clutch save. She was lucky the rebound didn't turn into anything, but she made the save when the game was on the line. As to whether the shot would have gone in the net if the goal stick wasn't moved--no way to tell that for sure--whether the ball would have ricocheted in off the goalie mask or not. Now--a moot point. To the victor...

[8meterPA]

I don't think it was a good shot. Barely a fake and broke the cardinal rule--make the goalie move. North had a clear open lane to shoot but there was no fake and no making Moreno move. Moreno obviously moved her stick, and she made a great clutch save. She was lucky the rebound didn't turn into anything, but she made the save when the game was on the line. As to whether the shot would have gone in the net if the goal stick wasn't moved--no way to tell that for sure--whether the ball would have ricocheted in off the goalie mask or not. Now--a moot point. To the victor...

Missing the obvious that CN doesn't have the same skill with her left hand or going to her left. She goes to the right, hard, 90%+ of the time. The UNC defender cut off that option and she had to go to the left with her non-dominant hand and it was an easy save for Moreno. If it didn't hit the goalie's stick, it would have hit the goalie...either way, an easy save.

[Can Opener]

I don't think it was a good shot. Barely a fake and broke the cardinal rule--make the goalie move. North had a clear open lane to shoot but there was no fake and no making Moreno move. Moreno obviously moved her stick, and she made a great clutch save. She was lucky the rebound didn't turn into anything, but she made the save when the game was on the line. As to whether the shot would have gone in the net if the goal stick wasn't moved--no way to tell that for sure--whether the ball would have ricocheted in off the goalie mask or not. Now--a moot point. To the victor...

Missing the obvious that CN doesn't have the same skill with her left hand or going to her left. She goes to the right, hard, 90%+ of the time. The UNC defender cut off that option and she had to go to the left with her non-dominant hand and it was an easy save for Moreno. If it didn't hit the goalie's stick, it would have hit the goalie...either way, an easy save.

Was it a perfect shot? No. But that's not the debate. Our friend said "she shot directly into the goalie's stick." Let's not move the goal posts. North did not shoot directly into Moreno's stick. Unless, of course, you want to apply the tortured logic that by definition even the most acrobatic stick saves on the best-placed shots go directly into the goalie's stick. That phrase implies stick side high which this shot was not. Moreno, BTW, is really darn good. Remarkable athlete.

[Can Opener]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. njBill doesn't have to like Charlotte North and no one should try to make him feel like he's done something wrong because he does not like her style of play. I have no problem with him not liking her. When I think he's wrong about something she does, I tell him. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.


I don't want you or ONW to apologize for jack. Just stick to Lacrosse.

And to boot, Charlotte is an outstanding player, but not the greatest ever...or even the best this season. I say Ortega is the best Attacker this season.

Fair enough, Larry on the thumb sucking comment. But you gotta admit the teardrop windows thing was kinda funny. Since the Admin reprimanded both of us last spring, I have not attacked Bill. After his hiatus, he continued the drum beat of negative comments toward a player I admire, but in my posts on this thread, I tried to find a middle ground. At times he would politely agree and other times he would drift back to a strange emotional state, going on a nonsensical rant about men's faceoffs, implying I want to change the women's game for the worse, and eventually calling me profoundly clueless and relatively ignorant. Full disclosure, I reported those comments to the Admin because I felt that was a violation of the rule against attacking posters and I was trying hard to keep things focused on lacrosse, as you suggest. When the Admin declined to take action on Bill's name calling, I suppose this is the type of stuff that emerges.

As was the case last spring, I think what really drives Bill bananas is that the stats are telling a clear story. Folks can complain about the Tewaaraton committee and the need for more eye tests, but when you read the press releases announcing the winners every year, guess what they consistently cite? Stats. The stats and the play on the field paint a pretty clear picture this year. CN has more goals. JO has more assists. The winner of a game is determined by the number of goals scored, not the number of assists, so that gives North a slight edge. CN is also a successful draw taker which is another plus in her favor. JO supporters can point to the fact that she was named ACC attacker of the year. As you know, that award is based on ACC play only, so North's 7 goals against Northwestern and 6 goals against Maryland don't factor in. (I'm sure JO also had some big OOC performances.) The ACC award is given before the NCAA playoffs, where CN outplayed JO. As you also know, JO won the ACC award last year, but did not win the Tewaaraton. That really leaves one huge positive factor for JO -- her team won the national championship. Is it fair to factor that into an individual award? Maybe. I don't have a big problem with it. So the final question for the committee is: Does JO being on the winning team outweigh CN's goals and DCs? You know what my answer would be, but I don't get a vote.

[Bart]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. njBill doesn't have to like Charlotte North and no one should try to make him feel like he's done something wrong because he does not like her style of play. I have no problem with him not liking her. When I think he's wrong about something she does, I tell him. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.


I don't want you or ONW to apologize for jack. Just stick to Lacrosse.

And to boot, Charlotte is an outstanding player, but not the greatest ever...or even the best this season. I say Ortega is the best Attacker this season.

Fair enough, Larry on the thumb sucking comment. But you gotta admit the teardrop windows thing was kinda funny. Since the Admin reprimanded both of us last spring, I have not attacked Bill. After his hiatus, he continued the drum beat of negative comments toward a player I admire, but in my posts on this thread, I tried to find a middle ground. At times he would politely agree and other times he would drift back to a strange emotional state, going on a nonsensical rant about men's faceoffs, implying I want to change the women's game for the worse, and eventually calling me profoundly clueless and relatively ignorant. Full disclosure, I reported those comments to the Admin because I felt that was a violation of the rule against attacking posters and I was trying hard to keep things focused on lacrosse, as you suggest. When the Admin declined to take action on Bill's name calling, I suppose this is the type of stuff that emerges.

As was the case last spring, I think what really drives Bill bananas is that the stats are telling a clear story. Folks can complain about the Tewaaraton committee and the need for more eye tests, but when you read the press releases announcing the winners every year, guess what they consistently cite? Stats. The stats and the play on the field paint a pretty clear picture this year. CN has more goals. JO has more assists. The winner of a game is determined by the number of goals scored, not the number of assists, so that gives North a slight edge. CN is also a successful draw taker which is another plus in her favor. JO supporters can point to the fact that she was named ACC attacker of the year. As you know, that award is based on ACC play only, so North's 7 goals against Northwestern and 6 goals against Maryland don't factor in. (I'm sure JO also had some big OOC performances.) The ACC award is given before the NCAA playoffs, where CN outplayed JO. As you also know, JO won the ACC award last year, but did not win the Tewaaraton. That really leaves one huge positive factor for JO -- her team won the national championship. Is it fair to factor that into an individual award? Maybe. I don't have a big problem with it. So the final question for the committee is: Does JO being on the winning team outweigh CN's goals and DCs? You know what my answer would be, but I don't get a vote.

You do realize that assists lead to goals scored don't you?

[Seacoaster(1)]

I hope Mastroianni wins it.

[wlaxphan20]

I hope Mastroianni wins it.

I hope one year all the finalists are eliminated before championship weekend

[Seacoaster(1)]

I hope Mastroianni wins it.

I hope one year all the finalists are eliminated before championship weekend

I hope I live that long; we're talking great-great-grandchildren for me.

[Bart]

I hope Mastroianni wins it.

I hope one year all the finalists are eliminated before championship weekend

I’m confused as to what you mean here. Eliminated from the tournament?

[wlaxphan20]

I hope Mastroianni wins it.

I hope one year all the finalists are eliminated before championship weekend

I’m confused as to what you mean here. Eliminated from the tournament?

Yes, as in the teams they play for are eliminated from the tournament. I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek, since so much emphasis seems to be placed on championship weekend. All finalists being eliminated before championship weekend would also likely indicate that the sport has achieved some level of parity.

[8meterPA]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. njBill doesn't have to like Charlotte North and no one should try to make him feel like he's done something wrong because he does not like her style of play. I have no problem with him not liking her. When I think he's wrong about something she does, I tell him. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.


I don't want you or ONW to apologize for jack. Just stick to Lacrosse.

And to boot, Charlotte is an outstanding player, but not the greatest ever...or even the best this season. I say Ortega is the best Attacker this season.

Fair enough, Larry on the thumb sucking comment. But you gotta admit the teardrop windows thing was kinda funny. Since the Admin reprimanded both of us last spring, I have not attacked Bill. After his hiatus, he continued the drum beat of negative comments toward a player I admire, but in my posts on this thread, I tried to find a middle ground. At times he would politely agree and other times he would drift back to a strange emotional state, going on a nonsensical rant about men's faceoffs, implying I want to change the women's game for the worse, and eventually calling me profoundly clueless and relatively ignorant. Full disclosure, I reported those comments to the Admin because I felt that was a violation of the rule against attacking posters and I was trying hard to keep things focused on lacrosse, as you suggest. When the Admin declined to take action on Bill's name calling, I suppose this is the type of stuff that emerges.

As was the case last spring, I think what really drives Bill bananas is that the stats are telling a clear story. Folks can complain about the Tewaaraton committee and the need for more eye tests, but when you read the press releases announcing the winners every year, guess what they consistently cite? Stats. The stats and the play on the field paint a pretty clear picture this year. CN has more goals. JO has more assists. The winner of a game is determined by the number of goals scored, not the number of assists, so that gives North a slight edge. CN is also a successful draw taker which is another plus in her favor. JO supporters can point to the fact that she was named ACC attacker of the year. As you know, that award is based on ACC play only, so North's 7 goals against Northwestern and 6 goals against Maryland don't factor in. (I'm sure JO also had some big OOC performances.) The ACC award is given before the NCAA playoffs, where CN outplayed JO. As you also know, JO won the ACC award last year, but did not win the Tewaaraton. That really leaves one huge positive factor for JO -- her team won the national championship. Is it fair to factor that into an individual award? Maybe. I don't have a big problem with it. So the final question for the committee is: Does JO being on the winning team outweigh CN's goals and DCs? You know what my answer would be, but I don't get a vote.

You do realize that assists lead to goals scored don't you?

[Lax247]

Hey Can Opener...why can't everyone have their opinion on various topics and you accept that? All this talk of thumbsucking and curling into a Fetal position is freakin stupid. Seriously, it really is.

This is supposed to be about Lacrosse. The Games, coaches, players, etc. It was NEVER to get personal and start name calling. njBill doesn't have to like Charlotte North and no one should try to make him feel like he's done something wrong because he does not like her style of play. I have no problem with him not liking her. When I think he's wrong about something she does, I tell him. We don't argue and name call. It's absolutely meaningless and solves nothing.


I don't want you or ONW to apologize for jack. Just stick to Lacrosse.

And to boot, Charlotte is an outstanding player, but not the greatest ever...or even the best this season. I say Ortega is the best Attacker this season.

Fair enough, Larry on the thumb sucking comment. But you gotta admit the teardrop windows thing was kinda funny. Since the Admin reprimanded both of us last spring, I have not attacked Bill. After his hiatus, he continued the drum beat of negative comments toward a player I admire, but in my posts on this thread, I tried to find a middle ground. At times he would politely agree and other times he would drift back to a strange emotional state, going on a nonsensical rant about men's faceoffs, implying I want to change the women's game for the worse, and eventually calling me profoundly clueless and relatively ignorant. Full disclosure, I reported those comments to the Admin because I felt that was a violation of the rule against attacking posters and I was trying hard to keep things focused on lacrosse, as you suggest. When the Admin declined to take action on Bill's name calling, I suppose this is the type of stuff that emerges.

As was the case last spring, I think what really drives Bill bananas is that the stats are telling a clear story. Folks can complain about the Tewaaraton committee and the need for more eye tests, but when you read the press releases announcing the winners every year, guess what they consistently cite? Stats. The stats and the play on the field paint a pretty clear picture this year. CN has more goals. JO has more assists. The winner of a game is determined by the number of goals scored, not the number of assists, so that gives North a slight edge. CN is also a successful draw taker which is another plus in her favor. JO supporters can point to the fact that she was named ACC attacker of the year. As you know, that award is based on ACC play only, so North's 7 goals against Northwestern and 6 goals against Maryland don't factor in. (I'm sure JO also had some big OOC performances.) The ACC award is given before the NCAA playoffs, where CN outplayed JO. As you also know, JO won the ACC award last year, but did not win the Tewaaraton. That really leaves one huge positive factor for JO -- her team won the national championship. Is it fair to factor that into an individual award? Maybe. I don't have a big problem with it. So the final question for the committee is: Does JO being on the winning team outweigh CN's goals and DCs? You know what my answer would be, but I don't get a vote.

You do realize that assists lead to goals scored don't you?

That’s probably one of the stupidest comments I’ve ever heard . And I heard a lot on here.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]