2022 Tewaaraton Finalists

[Laxfan500]

Don't see how JO gets it when she was not even the best player on her team in the Final Four and CN outplayed her. She also was not the best all round player of the group for the entire season. It is not a lifetime achievement award. First choice for me is CN. Second choice is AM.

You can make a similar argument about North. The coaches in her conference voted Ortega, not her, the best attacker in the ACC.

North’s coach (per that male announcer who fawns over North the way a four-year-old fawns over a new puppy) said North is not the best shooter on BC. I presume she means it’s Medjid.

When North took the biggest shot of her life, with four minutes to go and her team down by one, she shot directly into the goalie’s stick, effectively turning the ball over.

We can go round and round on this. We will know the answer in a couple of days.

This...^^^ all of this ^^^^

[Dr. Tact]

Don't see how JO gets it when she was not even the best player on her team in the Final Four and CN outplayed her. She also was not the best all round player of the group for the entire season. It is not a lifetime achievement award. First choice for me is CN. Second choice is AM.

You can make a similar argument about North. The coaches in her conference voted Ortega, not her, the best attacker in the ACC.

North’s coach (per that male announcer who fawns over North the way a four-year-old fawns over a new puppy) said North is not the best shooter on BC. I presume she means it’s Medjid.

When North took the biggest shot of her life, with four minutes to go and her team down by one, she shot directly into the goalie’s stick, effectively turning the ball over.

We can go round and round on this. We will know the answer in a couple of days.

I think JO wins it....the championship carries weight. Imagine if she wasn't sharing goals and assists with that star studded team. Her numbers would be higher by far.

[Can Opener]

Don't see how JO gets it when she was not even the best player on her team in the Final Four and CN outplayed her. She also was not the best all round player of the group for the entire season. It is not a lifetime achievement award. First choice for me is CN. Second choice is AM.

You can make a similar argument about North. The coaches in her conference voted Ortega, not her, the best attacker in the ACC.

North’s coach (per that male announcer who fawns over North the way a four-year-old fawns over a new puppy) said North is not the best shooter on BC. I presume she means it’s Medjid.

When North took the biggest shot of her life, with four minutes to go and her team down by one, she shot directly into the goalie’s stick, effectively turning the ball over.

We can go round and round on this. We will know the answer in a couple of days.

Statistically, CN outperformed her fellow Tewaaraton finalists in the tournament. Respectfully, I don't think that is up for debate. The shot that NJB references came with 7 seconds left on the shot clock. North made a nice split dodge that froze #1 and then took a lefty shot that was headed to the upper right corner. It did not go directly into Moreno's stick. The outstanding keeper made a nice save on it, having to cross her top hand over to deflect the ball. The fact that it produced a hard rebound is further evidence that it wasn't a routine easy save. Hard to tell from the video, but I think she may have saved it with the top of her fist or the bottom of her stick head. With 7 seconds left on the clock, most coaches would call that a good take. There are other arguments against CN winning the Tewy, but I don't think that shot is one of them. While I am a big defender of North, I always work hard not to criticize or tear down the other women in this game. When I suggest that North outperformed someone, I always try to temper that with a compliment of the other team or player. Maybe that is the golfer in me, where we refer to "fellow competitors" rather than "opponents." I also don't think it's constructive to refer to fellow posters as astoundingly clueless or relatively ignorant, but if others feel strongly that's an important part of my education, so be it.

Here is the clip in question:
https://www.ncaa.com/video/lacrosse-wom ... title-game

[DMac]

Stick is on the right side of Moreno's head before the shot, ends up on the left side as she had to move it to make the save.
Shot was definitely not "shot directly into the goalie’s stick". Was that the "biggest shot of her life" (she's won the title and T Award already) or is there a lot of hyperbole going on there?

[wlaxphan20]

I would be really interested to know truly how much weight is placed on NCAA tournament and championship weekend play. I think given the history, it’s obvious there’s a decent amount of weight placed on it, but I’d just appreciate the transparency.

[njbill]

In response to CO, again, the Tewaaraton is not an offensive statistical award. If it were, Hormes would win this year.

Your description of North’s shot at the 4 min mark is incorrect. The goalie’s stick moved slightly from goalie right to left, but had it remained completely motionless, the shot would have either hit the edge of her stick or her helmet. The shot would not have gone in. It was bad placement pure and simple. It was definitely not headed toward the upper right corner.

When you evaluate a shot, you look at (at least) two things. First, where was the shooter on the field relative to the goalie and the defenders. Second, where was the shot placed relative to the goalie. Here there is no question North was in a good position to shoot. You want your attacker to take that shot. But her placement was poor. Several other locations were open, but she shot it (nearly if you must) directly into the goalie’s stick and at her helmet.

The seven seconds on the shot clock isn’t particularly relevant as she was in a good spot to shoot the ball. You’d want your attacker taking that shot regardless of where the shot clock was.

Does the fact that North took that one bad shot disqualify her from winning the Tewaaraton? Of course not. But it’s not irrelevant that she shot 0-2 in the fourth quarter of a tied National Championship game. Even SSB commented "where is North?" (not those exact words, but words to that effect). Ortega, on the other hand, scored a goal in the fourth quarter that tied the game up. Does that one goal mean she should win? No, but again, not irrelevant. North had four goals in the game, Ortega two (and she was face guarded). But of those two players, Ortega unquestionably had the biggest goal.

OK, I get it. When I discuss North, I’m criticizing her. When you talk down Ortega or Mastroianni relative to North you aren’t criticizing them.

So it’s “constructive” for you to call me “really creepy” time and time again, “absurd,” a “hater,” and on and on, but you get upset if I refer to you as “clueless” or “relatively ignorant.” Yeah, OK.

My “cluelessness” comment was in response to you saying you don’t know if I think you are really North’s father. So, yes, “clueless” is an entirely appropriate description of your statement.

As to your “relatively ignorant” point, I said “your posts reveal a relative (relative to other posters here) ignorance of the women's game.” I stand by that. If I posted something on the men’s side that revealed my “relative ignorance,” I’d have no problem with you calling me out just as you did when I suggested the men replace the face plant with the draw.

As to Dmac's comment, I actually do think it was the biggest shot of her life. NCAA finals, four mins to go, team down by one. The only other time she was in an NCAA finals was last year and given the score of that game, I don’t think she had a bigger shot than the last one she took on Sunday.

[LarryGamLax]

Here it is another year and I continue to have problems with the Tewaaraton(on the Women's side). Why? Very simple answer...inconsistency in the criteria. Is this a regular season award, post season award, or both? Taylor Cummings won it her Senior year and had a subpar game in the Final vs UNC, the champion of 2016. Suddenly, the Post season award changed paths and became a regular season award and Cummings won her third in a row. Kayla Treanor, Barb Sullivan, Alice Mercer and Nicole Graziano...Oh Well!

So cut to 2022...The Finalists consist of 4 Attackers and a lone Middie. I guess Defenders and Goalies just don't matter. I have to ask, why wasn't Abby Hormes(High Point) a finalist? Tied for 1st in D1 in total points and led D1 with 103 Goals. Why wasn't she a Finalist OR do I already know the answer? Any defenders or Goalies warrant being Finalists?

And there you go. I will fire off an E-mail to the Tewaaraton Committe in the next couple of weeks voicing my concerns and views. They might tell me to take the express to Hell or they might give some thought to the things I have mentioned.


2022 TA winner should be...Jamie Ortega. Why? She is the best Attacker, all around, in the game. I don't really need to say why because we have all seen her play. The defending TA winner of 2021 Charlotte North, Is the most exciting player in the game. She's flamboyant, Box office, must see. She's a great player, but Ortega should be this year's winner.

[Lax101]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

[Bart]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

3/20 BC with a 1 goal loss- CN 4,1...JO 1,2
5/7 BC with a 7 goal loss - CN 3,1 ...JO 4,5
5/29 BC with another 1 goal loss -CN 4,0 ...JO 2, 0
BC lost all three times they played UNC. CN with13 total points...JO with 14 total points and a National Championship. Pretty tough call if you ask me. Except one player won the ACC tournament and the National Championship? So it all depends on how you want to divvy up the stats. If you throw in GBs and CT in the tournament that favors JO.

There are a gazillion ways to look at this. I still think CN wins it.

[Lax101]

Have never seen someone use head to head games to choose a TW winner. If BC had beaten UNC in the final by 1 would CN be your winner. I realize it's hard to debate all of this when the committee has never been clear of the selection criteria. I really thought CN sealed the deal with her performance in the semis and SG being finals MVP did not help JO IMO. If I was starting a team and could pick one of the players based on the year they had, I would take CN. Equally as talented on offense, better athlete, best scorer in the game and does the draw. I'm still hoping AM from UNC wins. She impacts the game as much (maybe more) than either CN or JO. Hard to quantify just how much her defense means to UNC.

[wlaxphan20]

Does anyone know if there was ever a women’s finalist who had the chance to repeat as Tewaaraton winner and was not chosen?

[Bart]

Have never seen someone use head to head games to choose a TW winner. If BC had beaten UNC in the final by 1 would CN be your winner. I realize it's hard to debate all of this when the committee has never been clear of the selection criteria. I really thought CN sealed the deal with her performance in the semis and SG being finals MVP did not help JO IMO. If I was starting a team and could pick one of the players based on the year they had, I would take CN. Equally as talented on offense, better athlete, best scorer in the game and does the draw. I'm still hoping AM from UNC wins. She impacts the game as much (maybe more) than either CN or JO. Hard to quantify just how much her defense means to UNC.

You were using the NC as a barometer. I was moving the barometer further out. Who knows what the committee is looking at. Perhaps they do look at head to heard. We do not know.

CN is the best scorer in the game..no doubt. Ortega, imo, is a more complete attacker with much better vision. It is six in one and a half dozen in the other. Do you want a goal scorer or a facilitator that can also score goals?

[wlaxphan20]

Have never seen someone use head to head games to choose a TW winner. If BC had beaten UNC in the final by 1 would CN be your winner. I realize it's hard to debate all of this when the committee has never been clear of the selection criteria. I really thought CN sealed the deal with her performance in the semis and SG being finals MVP did not help JO IMO. If I was starting a team and could pick one of the players based on the year they had, I would take CN. Equally as talented on offense, better athlete, best scorer in the game and does the draw. I'm still hoping AM from UNC wins. She impacts the game as much (maybe more) than either CN or JO. Hard to quantify just how much her defense means to UNC.

I think it was also AM who had that CT in the midfield that lead to Ortega’s breakaway goal. She’s a beast & a commanding presence on both ends and between the 30s

[DMac]

I believe she also scored on a terrific effort to break the drought v Northwestern and grab some mo for UNC.
Played a big role in turning that one around. Was very gritty and determined. Super good player.

[jff97]

Does anyone know if there was ever a women’s finalist who had the chance to repeat as Tewaaraton winner and was not chosen?

Apuzzo was a finalist in 2019 but Megan Taylor won.

[Laxfan500]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

Are you saying that JO was not the focus of everyone’s defense last year I beg to differ she was doubled and tripled every single game and still managed to wrack up the points goals and assists that she did and let’s not forget faceguarded the entire champ game . SG had the hot hand and weaker defenders and JO who is the consummate team player realized that and did everything she could to help her TEAM win. North is a “me”
Player no matter what everyone thinks . Didn’t have ball last - what? 8 minutes of game ? and certainly wasn’t getting the ball - when she consistently demands it ?
how does the best player not have the ball every possession in a 1 goal game ??? She’s got the flashiest shot and she can do a lot with the ball but don’t think it’s not first and for-most all about CN .
It’s so funny all of these North supporters they think she’s the only player in the world - the best at every single thing she does she’s a very talented player but she’s not the best overall Attacker she wasn’t the ACC attacker of the year JO was and she didn’t Beat BC three times JO and her team did.

[wlaxphan20]

Does anyone know if there was ever a women’s finalist who had the chance to repeat as Tewaaraton winner and was not chosen?

Apuzzo was a finalist in 2019 but Megan Taylor won.

Thank you! I was being lazy

[Lax101]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

Are you saying that JO was not the focus of everyone’s defense last year I beg to differ she was doubled and tripled every single game and still managed to wrack up the points goals and assists that she did and let’s not forget faceguarded the entire champ game . SG had the hot hand and weaker defenders and JO who is the consummate team player realized that and did everything she could to help her TEAM win. North is a “me”
Player no matter what everyone thinks . Didn’t have ball last - what? 8 minutes of game ? and certainly wasn’t getting the ball - when she consistently demands it ?
how does the best player not have the ball every possession in a 1 goal game ??? She’s got the flashiest shot and she can do a lot with the ball but don’t think it’s not first and for-most all about CN .
It’s so funny all of these North supporters they think she’s the only player in the world - the best at every single thing she does she’s a very talented player but she’s not the best overall Attacker she wasn’t the ACC attacker of the year JO was and she didn’t Beat BC three times JO and her team did.

Not sure why people are saying best all round attacker. Means nothing. It is not a the best attacker award. How did JO do on the draws? In my experience watching UNC games and BC games I was always surprised at how much more attention CN got from opposing defenses. I always felt the attention given to JO was not nearly the same. BC v UNC games are not a good example because BC always locks someone off. Perhaps it's because of CN's style of play and the fact that she is a scorer and less of a distributor. I would love for someone to go back and analyze the defensive game plans against each player. I have been watching lax for a long time and I have never seen anyone receive more game planning than CN. That includes Treanor and Cummings.

[wlaxphan20]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

Are you saying that JO was not the focus of everyone’s defense last year I beg to differ she was doubled and tripled every single game and still managed to wrack up the points goals and assists that she did and let’s not forget faceguarded the entire champ game . SG had the hot hand and weaker defenders and JO who is the consummate team player realized that and did everything she could to help her TEAM win. North is a “me”
Player no matter what everyone thinks . Didn’t have ball last - what? 8 minutes of game ? and certainly wasn’t getting the ball - when she consistently demands it ?
how does the best player not have the ball every possession in a 1 goal game ??? She’s got the flashiest shot and she can do a lot with the ball but don’t think it’s not first and for-most all about CN .
It’s so funny all of these North supporters they think she’s the only player in the world - the best at every single thing she does she’s a very talented player but she’s not the best overall Attacker she wasn’t the ACC attacker of the year JO was and she didn’t Beat BC three times JO and her team did.

Not sure why people are saying best all round attacker. Means nothing. It is not a the best attacker award. How did JO do on the draws? In my experience watching UNC games and BC games I was always surprised at how much more attention CN got from opposing defenses. I always felt the attention given to JO was not nearly the same. BC v UNC games are not a good example because BC always locks someone off. Perhaps it's because of CN's style of play and the fact that she is a scorer and less of a distributor. I would love for someone to go back and analyze the defensive game plans against each player. I have been watching lax for a long time and I have never seen anyone receive more game planning than CN. That includes Treanor and Cummings.

Just my 2 cents but Whittle was at Maryland for at least half of Cummings career and usually got the face guard. My guess is because Taylor Cummings could get the ball however she wanted, so denying teammates from passing her the ball wasn’t going to do much. She led the team in gbs, draws, and caused turnovers her sophomore, junior, & senior years. Her freshman year she was 1st in draws, 2nd in CT's, and 4th in gbs.

[user1020]

For me CN is the best scorer, equal or better stats while being the focus of every defense all year, and also does the draw. Also had a better Final Four. She carried he team to a comeback win in the semi's while UNC had SG do the same. I just don't see the case for JO other than the fact that UNC won by 1 goal.

Are you saying that JO was not the focus of everyone’s defense last year I beg to differ she was doubled and tripled every single game and still managed to wrack up the points goals and assists that she did and let’s not forget faceguarded the entire champ game . SG had the hot hand and weaker defenders and JO who is the consummate team player realized that and did everything she could to help her TEAM win. North is a “me”
Player no matter what everyone thinks . Didn’t have ball last - what? 8 minutes of game ? and certainly wasn’t getting the ball - when she consistently demands it ?
how does the best player not have the ball every possession in a 1 goal game ??? She’s got the flashiest shot and she can do a lot with the ball but don’t think it’s not first and for-most all about CN .
It’s so funny all of these North supporters they think she’s the only player in the world - the best at every single thing she does she’s a very talented player but she’s not the best overall Attacker she wasn’t the ACC attacker of the year JO was and she didn’t Beat BC three times JO and her team did.

Not sure why people are saying best all round attacker. Means nothing. It is not a the best attacker award. How did JO do on the draws? In my experience watching UNC games and BC games I was always surprised at how much more attention CN got from opposing defenses. I always felt the attention given to JO was not nearly the same. BC v UNC games are not a good example because BC always locks someone off. Perhaps it's because of CN's style of play and the fact that she is a scorer and less of a distributor. I would love for someone to go back and analyze the defensive game plans against each player. I have been watching lax for a long time and I have never seen anyone receive more game planning than CN. That includes Treanor and Cummings.

This award does seem to be turning into the best attacker award. However, even though it is not the best attacker award, if JO is the “best attacker” (which I think she is) how can a different attacker win the award over her. It also not the best draw taker award. I think JO is the most complete attacker and given the tradition of this award, I think she wins it. She was the best player on the best team. She won a national championship, and beat BC 3 times. I know head to head may not matter, but how can you give the award to a player who lost 3 times to two other finalists for the award (including 2 championship games). JO put up a similar level of points to CN on an offensive unit that IMO is much deeper than BCs. JO also has the best lacrosse IQ that I have seen in a long time. CN is a fantastic player and deserved the award last year, but if I had a vote is it strongly for JO this year. I love AM as a player but her stats are not enough compared to past midfielder winners. I also have gone back and forth over whether Belle Smith is the best midfielder in the country and not AM, but that is another debate.