Does Gary Gait Turn Syracuse Around & Make Them A Regular Power?

[PulpExposure]

Recruiting talent is important but what’s more important is developing talent. Those kids have to get better as they spend time in school and I guess we’ll find out if GG can do it. Think about Duke - they have top classes every year and should be winning the tournament every year. And they’re not.

So how did Dano win all those titles before if he can't develop

Shockingly sometimes coaches don’t have the same success year over year. It’s a shocking concept, I know, but Duke hasn’t won since 2014. Despite getting kids that yea are rated by IL but are also desperately wanted by coaches. Look at Brennan O’Neill. He’s awesome. He’s also the same player he was when he stepped onto Duke’s field.

And Khan had been developed by the time he got to Maryland. Dude was an AA before. That’s not my point at all.

The point is can Gait develop freshman. And we don’t know that answer.

[CU77]

The point is can Gait develop freshman. And we don’t know that answer.

We don't know, but "no" is a pretty good guess. He has exactly one year of trying. And his women's teams could never break through to a championship, while total rookie KAH took a midwest team no one in the lax world had ever heard of to multiple natties.

Also, emotional management of a group of college men is a very different task than college women.

Finally, coaching matters more than a fan thinks. I watched Kerwick completely mismanage great talent for however many dismal years he was Cornell's coach. Just putting Jeff Teat on the field was not enough. No coincidence that Cornell snapped back to prominence after Kerwick left.

[OCanada]

You should make it after PM left.

[a fan]

Shockingly sometimes coaches don’t have the same success year over year. It’s a shocking concept, I know, but Duke hasn’t won since 2014. Despite getting kids that yea are rated by IL but are also desperately wanted by coaches

"Desperately wanted out of High School" isn't the same thing as "the best in Division I ball". And IL HS recruit ranking doesn't guarantee doodly on the D1 field.

Look at Brennan O’Neill. He’s awesome. He’s also the same player he was when he stepped onto Duke’s field.

So are most kids in Division I. Some are as good as they're going to get when they arrive as freshman. Some get MUCH better in College.

You're jumping to the conclusion that this MUST be because of Coaching. It's not. It's obviously not.

The point is can Gait develop freshman. And we don’t know that answer.

That's YOUR question. My question is: can Gait bring the best D1 talent to the Dome, or not?

Gait won't be able to take "meh" talent, and make it great. No coach in D1 can do that.

If they could? They'd be in the Final Four every year, because it wouldn't matter how good the kids were who showed up on campus freshman year.

[Farfromgeneva]

The point is can Gait develop freshman. And we don’t know that answer.

We don't know, but "no" is a pretty good guess. He has exactly one year of trying. And his women's teams could never break through to a championship, while total rookie KAH took a midwest team no one in the lax world had ever heard of to multiple natties.

Also, emotional management of a group of college men is a very different task than college women.

Finally, coaching matters more than a fan thinks. I watched Kerwick completely mismanage great talent for however many dismal years he was Cornell's coach. Just putting Jeff Teat on the field was not enough. No coincidence that Cornell snapped back to prominence after Kerwick left.

Yeah of course that’s an extreme position, same as on the political stuff. (like James Franco describing artistry in This is the End - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KvzheiXCDjk)

But coaching isn’t that relevant when it comes to “should he stay or should he go” as much as it’s utilized to hypothetically fire half the D1 coaches as people do around here on the reg. It matters to the extent you can elevate a little on the margin vis-a-vis your peer set cohort.

[Kismet]

Recruiting talent is important but what’s more important is developing talent. Those kids have to get better as they spend time in school and I guess we’ll find out if GG can do it. Think about Duke - they have top classes every year and should be winning the tournament every year. And they’re not.

So how did Dano win all those titles before if he can't develop talent?

Isn't it a shade more likely that the same people at Inside Lacrosse who told us that the Syracuse, Hopkins, UNC, Gtown, and Duke were getting 'top classes" were wrong? Because that's a whole lot of HOF caliber coaches that "aren't developing talent".

And the new transfer portal shows how unimportant coaching is relative to talent. Did Benson and Tillman develop Keegan Khan in the few months he was there?

Or did he show up after his senior season at Nova.....and Tillman simply pointed him at the opposing team's net and said "put the ball there"?

I know where my vote is. And speaking of Inside Lacrosse being horribly wrong on their evaluations of "recruiting classes", any remember where Keegan Khan was ranked? Take a guess.

Correct. And if your coach is recruiting off the IL list, get a new coach.

Bill Tierney made it an art how to recruit kids to fit his philosophy and then let them take care of winning, especially at crunch time. In all those years at Princeton, please point to an OT game the Tigers lost in the postseason.

[a fan]

Finally, coaching matters more than a fan thinks. I watched Kerwick completely mismanage great talent for however many dismal years he was Cornell's coach. Just putting Jeff Teat on the field was not enough. No coincidence that Cornell snapped back to prominence after Kerwick left.

I've never said coaching doesn't matter.

What I said...years ago, when both Syracuse and Hopkins started their struggles, is that it's absurd to think that Desko and Petro can't coach ("forgot how to coach" is how I put it). It was obvious that Cuse and Hop were getting C and B talent...and the A talent was landing at other schools.

That, and to keep it short..... that no amount of coaching will get you to a Final Four without some elite players on the field. it has NEVER happened in our sport.

[CU77]

You should make it after PM left.

It was PM who brought Cornell back, with Buzcek and Stevens as assistants. With PM at the helm, Cornell beat Yale in 2018 in the Ivy League Tourney final, the year Yale won the national championship.

[Bandito]

You should make it after PM left.

It was PM who brought Cornell back, with Buzcek and Stevens as assistants. With PM at the helm, Cornell beat Yale in 2018 in the Ivy League Tourney final, the year Yale won the national championship.

He can’t handle that Cornell is light years ahead of Hopkins.

[molo]

I wonder if GG watched any of either the men’s CD if women’s tournament games.

[CU77]

What I said...years ago, when both Syracuse and Hopkins started their struggles, is that it's absurd to think that Desko and Petro can't coach ("forgot how to coach" is how I put it). It was obvious that Cuse and Hop were getting C and B talent...and the A talent was landing at other schools.

I do think it's possible for a coach to fail to evolve with the game, and with the culture (how elite athletes want/need to be managed). I think Petro is in this category. Desko I dunno.

That, and to keep it short..... that no amount of coaching will get you to a Final Four without some elite players on the field. it has NEVER happened in our sport.

Tierney was the best at adapting strategy and tactics to available talent. This is a skill that, IMO, is not equally distributed among coaches, and IMO that matters, because very rarely will any team have top talent at every position.

[shoothi]

IMO Gait used this year to get his feet wet coaching guys lacrosse, see what talent he had, how the assistants interacted with him, the players, game prep, and game situation. Sure he has time and leeway to put his stamp on the program.

Believe there will be improvement moving forward as he begins to install his systems, coaching etc. The fans of the Orange should be excited about the upcoming seasons.

[molo]

Wizard of Oz is pretty old. That doesn’t make it irrelevant. Something what you see is what you get.

[CU77]

IMO Gait used this year to get his feet wet coaching guys lacrosse

And it's just amazing to me that the Cuse admin thought that turning their storied program over to a dude who NEEDED to "get his feet wet coaching guys lacrosse" was a good idea.

Then Gait's first move was to hire a has-been just-fired equally-out-of-shape coach as his sidekick. Not a great plan, IMO.

But we'll see. I've certainly been wrong before.

[OCanada]

CU does not get to the finals with PM imo. PM couldn’t fo it before Teat and Donville etc left. You have a potentially great coach now try not to be infantile

[faircornell]

I don't see why GG can't make Syracuse a "regular power" again. It looks like SU is getting some talent through the transfer portal (and perhaps losing some). The School seems to value lacrosse. Gait knows how to win. I guess that some of this depends on how one defines "Regular Power". If that means regular ACC contender, and occasional ACC champ plus a perennial "Elite Eight" plus team. I don't see why not. The larger question than Gait's talent is the increasing competition in the game. Jacksonville, Richmond, top Ivies are all entering the discussion more seriously, as are Patriot League teams and outliers like Robert Morris.

[jrn19]

IMO Gait used this year to get his feet wet coaching guys lacrosse

And it's just amazing to me that the Cuse admin thought that turning their storied program over to a dude who NEEDED to "get his feet wet coaching guys lacrosse" was a good idea.

Then Gait's first move was to hire a has-been just-fired equally-out-of-shape coach as his sidekick. Not a great plan, IMO.

But we'll see. I've certainly been wrong before.

Not only that, but anyone who dared to suggest "hey, this guy doesn't have a lot of exp with men's lacrosse, that could be an issue" was shouted down as if they were committing heresy

[ICGrad]

You should make it after PM left.

It was PM who brought Cornell back, with Buzcek and Stevens as assistants. With PM at the helm, Cornell beat Yale in 2018 in the Ivy League Tourney final, the year Yale won the national championship.

And had a team that was robbed of the postseason the next year, and had a Cornell team that was ranked #2 when Covid torpedoed all of sports in 2020.

Totally unfair to deny PM his due.

[Homer]

You should make it after PM left.

It was PM who brought Cornell back, with Buzcek and Stevens as assistants. With PM at the helm, Cornell beat Yale in 2018 in the Ivy League Tourney final, the year Yale won the national championship.

And had a team that was robbed of the postseason the next year, and had a Cornell team that was ranked #2 when Covid torpedoed all of sports in 2020.

Totally unfair to deny PM his due.

I'm sorry, but OCanada has already addressed this and stated his opinion otherwise. What part of "try not to be infantile" don't you understand?

[faircornell]

You should make it after PM left.

It was PM who brought Cornell back, with Buzcek and Stevens as assistants. With PM at the helm, Cornell beat Yale in 2018 in the Ivy League Tourney final, the year Yale won the national championship.

And had a team that was robbed of the postseason the next year, and had a Cornell team that was ranked #2 when Covid torpedoed all of sports in 2020.

Totally unfair to deny PM his due.

I'm sorry, but OCanada has already addressed this and stated his opinion otherwise. What part of "try not to be infantile" don't you understand?

I think that both sides are correct. Pete brought back a standard of excellence and play that made the Cornell team extremely good. What Connor Buczek, Jordon Stephens and Paolo Cifeiri have accomplished is to add that "X" factor of culture (or as Coach Buczek has said, a "renaissance" of Cornell lacrosse culture). I've been amazed at the "no quit" effectiveness of the current Cornell team, and its improvement over the year. To be fair to Pete, it's challenging to come into any strong culture like Cornell or Hopkins and immediately integrate. Cornell's current coaches are all deeply steeped in the Cornell Lacrosse culture at its best. That is a difference maker.