Sensible Gun Safety

[Seacoaster(1)]

This could provide a clue.....

Uvalde: AR-15
Buffalo: AR-15
Boulder: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Parkland: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Aurora, CO: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Waffle House: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Midland/Odessa: AR-15
Poway synagogue: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
Tree of Life Synagogue: AR-15

Do you understand how many variants there are of AR15 type weapons? In NYS the Buffalo shooter owned a variant of the AR 15 totally legal under king Andy's SAFE ACT. A half truth is still a lie.

Thank you for missing the point. It’s good to have something predictable in my life.

[Peter Brown]

I will say you are certainly correct that this will fall out of the public eye sooner rather than later. Many are unfortunately becoming desensitized to it. Then you have people (some here) saying it's too early to talk about politics, or it's political grandstanding to demand action. And to them I say, is it still too early to talk about action in response to Sandy Hook? Or Parkland? Or Las Vegas?

I'm all for everything and anything anyone is doing to amend this issue. With this said, the root causes of this issue interest me more than any others. And, in terms of root causes, I think one would be hard-pressed not to admit that guns and gun violence is part of American culture. I'm not saying that video games caused this horrible occurrence, these horrible occurrences. I am saying that our national obsession with guns and gun violence plays no small role in the amount of people killed by guns. That, for whatever reason, gun violence is explicitly tied into the American DNA.

This is a good post, and I’d add a few things.

The family unit structure
Hollywood
Social media

I’m not sure why folks, who see disturbing social media posts by kids like this, don’t report it. If I saw a young kid posting gun photos only for the sake of guns (not for the sake of hunting for instance), I’d be alarmed enough to call the parents if not the police. In every case, these mass murderers are known to their community as having ‘issues’. What’s preventing people from alerting responsible parties to take action before they do? Fear of being sued?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Herschel Walker's plan.

“…that’s looking at women”? Please explain.

[Kismet]

Simple mathematics will tell you what the problem is in this country

Total population - 332,500,000

Estimated total number of firearms is estimated to be as high as 350,000, 000.

We have more guns than people in this country. Ironic in TX they have managed to make it EASIER to acquire a firearm of late.

Here is the Kimmel video



If this situation doesn't make you angry, then perhaps you're part of the problem.

[jhu72]

Herschel Walker's plan.

“…that’s looking at women”? Please explain.

Georgia's next senator speaks.

[Peter Brown]

Herschel Walker's plan.

“…that’s looking at women”? Please explain.

As you guys try to mock Walker, if you listen to the interview (rather than try to make fun of him), it’s easy to understand what he’s saying and he speaks for most of us.

He’s saying young boys waste their days looking at young women on social media, becoming disengaged from human interaction. This is partly the reason some of these kids lose their heads. That’s eminently logical.

What he then says is Democrats seek to take away your 2nd amendment constitutional rights, while avoiding any discussion of the root causes of someone who would slaughter young children. That’s also a logical observation.

Anyone who listens to him knows full well what he’s saying, and most importantly, agrees.

[CU88]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Senate GOP blocks domestic terrorism bill that would have opened debate on gun measures after Texas school shooting.

[CU88]

Simple mathematics will tell you what the problem is in this country

Total population - 332,500,000

Estimated total number of firearms is estimated to be as high as 350,000, 000.

We have more guns than people in this country. Ironic in TX they have managed to make it EASIER to acquire a firearm of late.

Here is the Kimmel video



If this situation doesn't make you angry, then perhaps you're part of the problem.

Gun control laws help, so why don't we do more of them?

[jhu72]

Simple mathematics will tell you what the problem is in this country

Total population - 332,500,000

Estimated total number of firearms is estimated to be as high as 350,000, 000.

We have more guns than people in this country. Ironic in TX they have managed to make it EASIER to acquire a firearm of late.

Here is the Kimmel video



If this situation doesn't make you angry, then perhaps you're part of the problem.

... we all know why Cruz and Abbott and their supporters can't admit they were wrong, as suggested by Kimmel. Kimmel is being naive. The voters of Texas need to wake up and show these scumbag republiCON death merchants the door. Nothing will change until that is done. If the people of Texas can't bring themselves to do that, then the people of Texas must like things the way they are.

[jhu72]

Herschel Walker's plan.

“…that’s looking at women”? Please explain.

As you guys try to mock Walker, if you listen to the interview (rather than try to make fun of him), it’s easy to understand what he’s saying and he speaks for most of us.

He’s saying young boys waste their days looking at young women on social media, becoming disengaged from human interaction. This is partly the reason some of these kids lose their heads. That’s eminently logical.

What he then says is Democrats seek to take away your 2nd amendment constitutional rights, while avoiding any discussion of the root causes of someone who would slaughter young children. That’s also a logical observation.

Anyone who listens to him knows full well what he’s saying, and most importantly, agrees.

... sure everyone should listen to what he says. I posted the interview in response to SC's query, just above. Judge for yourselves. He wants to have a government department looking into boys looking at young women on social media ---- and then what???

[Typical Lax Dad]

Herschel Walker's plan.

“…that’s looking at women”? Please explain.

Georgia's next senator speaks.

Aristotle

[MDlaxfan76]

Greg Abbott comments.

These are the people who blather about "American Exceptionalism," but who have made us into a Third World country. Bad infrastructure, political paralysis, and 350,000,000 guns.

Of course liberals such as yourself will gladly exclude yourself and your ideology from contributing to the mess we are in. if the solution is to ban all guns let me know how that works out. All of those many people who own illegal firearms will gladly turn them in. Everybody is looking at the guns and ignoring the crazy people behind the guns. What scares the hell out of me is the plethora of unstable people in this country that are willing to shoot innocent people for no reason. It appears this person celebrated his 18th birthday by purchasing the weapons he used. It could be time to raise the age to purchase a firearm to 18. It should also be mandatory to complete a firearm safety course. This is certainly not a solution, but it is a start.

Grow up. No one is insisting all guns must be banned. Americans have owned guns since forever and never had this problem until high capacity, high rate of fire weapons were made legal. Until we made acquiring and carrying a gun in public easier than acquiring a drivers license. I am sorry if it offends you, but this is a problem that is almost totally the responsibility of the republican party.

Back up the bus didn't Doc Barrister propose that just a few posts above. He appeared to be serious as a heart attack in doing so. FTR aquirering a hand gun in NYS legally is a monumental task that can take as long as a year depending on what county you live in. Buying any weapon in NYS legally requires an FBI background check from the firearms dealer. I agree that different states are very lax on gun ownership. I've said this a 1000 times, step one should be the BATF cracking down on the sale of firearms across state lines. If the solution is the sale of all firearms be regulated at the federal level.. there are 50 states that will take exception to that and the court cases will go on for many years. I'm all for keeping firearms out of the hands of unstable people. How our nation goes about doing that is no simple task. FTR I'm becoming more and more on the side of limiting the sales of AR-15 type weapons. IMO they are not a practical weapon for home defense. I don't think most folks that own these weapons understand how far a 5.56 round can travel and still be lethal. That would be in excess of 300 meters. That is farther than most people can see.

No he did not. He was specific. Ban hand guns, ban assault rifles.
I own a half dozen guns for hunting. None would be banned under Doc's suggestion.

Yes, this needs to be national legislation and it needs to stand up in SCOTUS.

I'm in favor of legal gun range situations that enable citizens to train on weapons, use them in sport, but not keep them in their homes, nor use them in supermarkets, schools, and churches.

I'm in favor of universal background checks of all guns, all situations, including, even, family transfers. No exceptions.

National legislation.

I corrected my mistake a few posts above yours. You abviously didn't read it. FTR how do you ban semi automatic weapons? It sounds easy until you understand what a semi automatic weapon is. If you ban AR 15 types weapons do you ban the venerable M1 Garland? Both are semi automatic weapons. Both are very lethal weapons with the M1 being much more deadly? I own an M1 carbine. A semi automatic rifle. Hell king Andy couldn't define what a semi automatic assault weapon was when he passed the SAFE ACT. For all the weapons he banned he allowed the Ruger Mini 14 to be sold. The same damn 5.56 round fired by the AR-15. The folks at Ruger are very grateful to king Andy. Their sales went thru the roof.

Thanks. Yes, I'd written my response before seeing your correction.

Yes, I'd ban the M1 and the Ruger, as kept at home. I think setting up licensed gun ranges where such weapons could be stored and used in a regulated, safe fashion would be just fine. Including continued 'ownership' of a specific weapon, much like bottles of wine may be stored at a wine storage facility by the owner. You'd simply need to keep and use it there. Come the invasion of the Chinese or the Martians or the zombie apocalypse, you could retrieve it then...

If we imagine a world in which this could actually be passed at a national level, there would certainly be a substantial transition period in getting folks to comply and I'd have a light hand at first to give folks time to adjust, gun storage and range facilities being set up, etc. But the # of guns sold and unsecured would drop substantially and policing could target gun usage by criminals. Community expectations would adjust.

Over time, this would reduce substantially the sorts of gun violence we see all too often, both these massacre sorts of actions, and the gun violence in the streets...the latter, though, I think also requires drug decriminalization and treatment reform, taking the profit out of the illicit trade, making 'street corners' far less critical to fight over.

And not for nothing, hand gun elimination would dramatically reduce accidental deaths in the home and suicides.

MD you make some interesting points. I can only say that until the folks on your side find a way to circumvent the 2nd amendment your peeing in the wind. THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGE D has no ambiguity. How it can be regulated is where the rubber meets the road. I have no intentions of ever owning an AR 15 type of weapon. When people scream with spittle coming out of their mouth that nobody needs an assault rifle.. that ain't the point. The point is the 2nd amendment guarantees that as protected by the constitution. If you choose to you have that right. King Andy tried to ban/regulate these weapons in NYS via the SAFE ACT. There is no half-ass way of doing it. King Andy tried and only made trying to define an assault weapon into a convoluted FLP cluster fudge. That was the cluster fudge that allowed the Buffalo shooter to legally buy his 5.56 rifle in full compliance with NYS SAFE ACT.

cradle, we've been through the constitutional law argument numerous times, and I'd submit that one would be incorrect in only looking at the one phrase. There are commas isolating that phrase that bring the whole into context.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Moreover, SCOTUS has multiple times agreed that not all "arms" are included, and that guns can indeed be regulated.

It's simply NOT an absolute right to "keep and bear Arms" any way, any type, wherever, one wishes.

I've suggested my policy solutions that enable lawful "keep and bear" guns in support of the purpose described in the 2nd amendment, with the additional benefits of use for hunting and sport. Regulated.

[a fan]

He’s saying young boys waste their days looking at young women on social media, becoming disengaged from human interaction. This is partly the reason some of these kids lose their heads. That’s eminently logical.

No, it isn't. That happens all over the globe. Yet no mass shootings.

What he then says is Democrats seek to take away your 2nd amendment constitutional rights, while avoiding any discussion of the root causes of someone who would slaughter young children. That’s also a logical observation.

No. It's not. Know how I know? I'm a Columbine Graduate. And your team told us that they'd tackle the "other" non-gun issues after that shooting.

They lied. And did nothing. And they'll do nothing this time, too.

But you eat it up because Walker has a R by his name.

[NattyBohChamps04]

What he then says is Democrats seek to take away your 2nd amendment constitutional rights, while avoiding any discussion of the root causes of someone who would slaughter young children. That’s also a logical observation.

This is the very lost mindset of the right these days, thinking it's all about taking guns. There are indeed different root causes of gun violence. Democrats have been discussing them for decades. And of course the right is ignoring all of the causes or actively making them worse.

Healthcare reform? Giving Americans cheaper and easier access to better healthcare? Still no plan from R's.

Mental health? No support from R's. "We as a state, we as a society, need to do a better job with mental health" - TX Governor Greg Abbot. Texas is near last in mental health funding. In April, Abbot cut $211M from the department that oversees mental health programs. They've been gutting mental health programs and facilities for decades. Righty Parents are also targeting school mental health programs: Parents protesting 'critical race theory' identify another target: Mental health programs

I could go on and on

Poverty.
Drugs.
Easy access to Guns.
Easy access to misinformation and disinformation and extremist grooming online.

I haven't seen any meaningful, substantive policies in the past couple of decades from the right that try to fix the root causes of gun violence.

[old salt]

Anti-depressant drugs, covid isolation, violent video games, social media, breakdown of family structure

... is there a point??

All the things I listed were factors in the Uvaldea &/or Buffalo shootings.

It's not just access to semi-automatic weapons. The TX tower shooter killed 11 & wounded 31 with a bolt action rifle.

Mass shootings have increased with the advent of violent video games & social media.

The ten year ban on semi-automatic weapons did not work. Don't chase simplistic solutions.

[Peter Brown]

What he then says is Democrats seek to take away your 2nd amendment constitutional rights, while avoiding any discussion of the root causes of someone who would slaughter young children. That’s also a logical observation.

This is the very lost mindset of the right these days, thinking it's all about taking guns. There are indeed different root causes of gun violence. Democrats have been discussing them for decades. And of course the right is ignoring all of the causes or actively making them worse.

Healthcare reform? Giving Americans cheaper and easier access to better healthcare? Still no plan from R's.

Mental health? No support from R's. "We as a state, we as a society, need to do a better job with mental health" - TX Governor Greg Abbot. Texas is near last in mental health funding. In April, Abbot cut $211M from the department that oversees mental health programs. They've been gutting mental health programs and facilities for decades. Righty Parents are also targeting school mental health programs: Parents protesting 'critical race theory' identify another target: Mental health programs

I could go on and on

Poverty.
Drugs.
Easy access to Guns.
Easy access to misinformation and disinformation and extremist grooming online.

I haven't seen any meaningful, substantive policies in the past couple of decades from the right that try to fix the root causes of gun violence.

Well I think you’re both correct as well as not giving credit where it’s due. These are complicated topics, not easily distilled to social media. But I don’t disagree with much of your post, excepting the ‘Republican always bad’ part. I’d like to think 95% of everyone wants the right outcome. It’s how to get there that’s tricky. You think Republicans want kids to be killed? I am legitimately nervous Democrats would do away with a constituent right. I am.

The reason I detested O’Rourke’s stunt is captured in this Ben Shapiro quote:


Today, if a Republican suggests any measures designed to prevent school shootings that AREN'T large-scale gun control, the media and the Left mock them. Even if those measures would be far more effective and achievable than Democrats' largely-unspecified policies. Which means this is all posturing.


People have to meet in the middle here. Most Americans agree on the urgency. Just be aware that most Americans are firmly pro-2A.

[dislaxxic]

MD you make some interesting points. I can only say that until the folks on your side find a way to circumvent the 2nd amendment your peeing in the wind. THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGE D has no ambiguity.

OMG! Dumbest...err...Cradle...HAS IT FIGURED OUT! Yeah! Just BARE those arms and we'll be one safe, massacre-free nation! Boy, it's good having you here, Cradle...you and Joe really add a TUN to the discussion!!



Question for ya, C&S: you're a bit of an originalist when it comes to the Constitution, right? Did the framers original intent revolve around the type of "arms" (bare or not) that were available in the late 18th century? Did they think that WHATEVER civilization came up with in terms to TYPES of arms would be just AOK going forward...with respect to what they thought about, in the 1780's, as "Constitutional Rights"??

Asking for a friend...

..

[cradleandshoot]

Greg Abbott comments.

These are the people who blather about "American Exceptionalism," but who have made us into a Third World country. Bad infrastructure, political paralysis, and 350,000,000 guns.

Of course liberals such as yourself will gladly exclude yourself and your ideology from contributing to the mess we are in. if the solution is to ban all guns let me know how that works out. All of those many people who own illegal firearms will gladly turn them in. Everybody is looking at the guns and ignoring the crazy people behind the guns. What scares the hell out of me is the plethora of unstable people in this country that are willing to shoot innocent people for no reason. It appears this person celebrated his 18th birthday by purchasing the weapons he used. It could be time to raise the age to purchase a firearm to 18. It should also be mandatory to complete a firearm safety course. This is certainly not a solution, but it is a start.

Grow up. No one is insisting all guns must be banned. Americans have owned guns since forever and never had this problem until high capacity, high rate of fire weapons were made legal. Until we made acquiring and carrying a gun in public easier than acquiring a drivers license. I am sorry if it offends you, but this is a problem that is almost totally the responsibility of the republican party.

Back up the bus didn't Doc Barrister propose that just a few posts above. He appeared to be serious as a heart attack in doing so. FTR aquirering a hand gun in NYS legally is a monumental task that can take as long as a year depending on what county you live in. Buying any weapon in NYS legally requires an FBI background check from the firearms dealer. I agree that different states are very lax on gun ownership. I've said this a 1000 times, step one should be the BATF cracking down on the sale of firearms across state lines. If the solution is the sale of all firearms be regulated at the federal level.. there are 50 states that will take exception to that and the court cases will go on for many years. I'm all for keeping firearms out of the hands of unstable people. How our nation goes about doing that is no simple task. FTR I'm becoming more and more on the side of limiting the sales of AR-15 type weapons. IMO they are not a practical weapon for home defense. I don't think most folks that own these weapons understand how far a 5.56 round can travel and still be lethal. That would be in excess of 300 meters. That is farther than most people can see.

No he did not. He was specific. Ban hand guns, ban assault rifles.
I own a half dozen guns for hunting. None would be banned under Doc's suggestion.

Yes, this needs to be national legislation and it needs to stand up in SCOTUS.

I'm in favor of legal gun range situations that enable citizens to train on weapons, use them in sport, but not keep them in their homes, nor use them in supermarkets, schools, and churches.

I'm in favor of universal background checks of all guns, all situations, including, even, family transfers. No exceptions.

National legislation.

I corrected my mistake a few posts above yours. You abviously didn't read it. FTR how do you ban semi automatic weapons? It sounds easy until you understand what a semi automatic weapon is. If you ban AR 15 types weapons do you ban the venerable M1 Garland? Both are semi automatic weapons. Both are very lethal weapons with the M1 being much more deadly? I own an M1 carbine. A semi automatic rifle. Hell king Andy couldn't define what a semi automatic assault weapon was when he passed the SAFE ACT. For all the weapons he banned he allowed the Ruger Mini 14 to be sold. The same damn 5.56 round fired by the AR-15. The folks at Ruger are very grateful to king Andy. Their sales went thru the roof.

Thanks. Yes, I'd written my response before seeing your correction.

Yes, I'd ban the M1 and the Ruger, as kept at home. I think setting up licensed gun ranges where such weapons could be stored and used in a regulated, safe fashion would be just fine. Including continued 'ownership' of a specific weapon, much like bottles of wine may be stored at a wine storage facility by the owner. You'd simply need to keep and use it there. Come the invasion of the Chinese or the Martians or the zombie apocalypse, you could retrieve it then...

If we imagine a world in which this could actually be passed at a national level, there would certainly be a substantial transition period in getting folks to comply and I'd have a light hand at first to give folks time to adjust, gun storage and range facilities being set up, etc. But the # of guns sold and unsecured would drop substantially and policing could target gun usage by criminals. Community expectations would adjust.

Over time, this would reduce substantially the sorts of gun violence we see all too often, both these massacre sorts of actions, and the gun violence in the streets...the latter, though, I think also requires drug decriminalization and treatment reform, taking the profit out of the illicit trade, making 'street corners' far less critical to fight over.

And not for nothing, hand gun elimination would dramatically reduce accidental deaths in the home and suicides.

MD you make some interesting points. I can only say that until the folks on your side find a way to circumvent the 2nd amendment your peeing in the wind. THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGE D has no ambiguity. How it can be regulated is where the rubber meets the road. I have no intentions of ever owning an AR 15 type of weapon. When people scream with spittle coming out of their mouth that nobody needs an assault rifle.. that ain't the point. The point is the 2nd amendment guarantees that as protected by the constitution. If you choose to you have that right. King Andy tried to ban/regulate these weapons in NYS via the SAFE ACT. There is no half-ass way of doing it. King Andy tried and only made trying to define an assault weapon into a convoluted FLP cluster fudge. That was the cluster fudge that allowed the Buffalo shooter to legally buy his 5.56 rifle in full compliance with NYS SAFE ACT.

cradle, we've been through the constitutional law argument numerous times, and I'd submit that one would be incorrect in only looking at the one phrase. There are commas isolating that phrase that bring the whole into context.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Moreover, SCOTUS has multiple times agreed that not all "arms" are included, and that guns can indeed be regulated.

It's simply NOT an absolute right to "keep and bear Arms" any way, any type, wherever, one wishes.

I've suggested my policy solutions that enable lawful "keep and bear" guns in support of the purpose described in the 2nd amendment, with the additional benefits of use for hunting and sport. Regulated.

I don't disagree with your argument in theory. The problem is sorting out "well regulated" and the last sentence that clearly defines the right of the people to keep and bare arms shall not be infringed. IMO the founding fathers were very clear about the right to keep and bare arms. They were not clear at all about how they should be regulated. For the most part that regulation has been left to the states. Where I live in NYS purchasing a firearm involves a background check. That is a phone call that takes the dealer about 5 minutes to complete. When they run your SS number in their data base if your record is not as clean as a whistle you will be flagged and the purchase denied. How much more needs to be done if your a law abiding citizen who plays by all the rules?? There are many millions of US Citizens who own AR-15 type weapons and follow all the rules to the letter. They must all suffer because of the actions of a miniscule amount of people. BTW, how come nobody in the anti gun crowd seems to give a chit about ILLEGAL WEAPONS?? That is where the murder rates predominate in America. They don't stand out when it is only one or two or three people a night in just a few cities. Why isn't Biden talking about fixing that problem? So many people on this forum want to ban/confiscate the firearms of law abiding citizens because in their opinion " nobody needs" these type of weapons. I wish they had the same passion for going after illegal firearms in the hands of convicted felons. There is a problem you can sink your teeth into.

[cradleandshoot]

MD you make some interesting points. I can only say that until the folks on your side find a way to circumvent the 2nd amendment your peeing in the wind. THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BARE ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGE D has no ambiguity.

OMG! Dumbest...err...Cradle...HAS IT FIGURED OUT! Yeah! Just BARE those arms and we'll be one safe, massacre-free nation! Boy, it's good having you here, Cradle...you and Joe really add a TUN to the discussion!!

I apologize for my grammatical error. That aside, I didn't compose the 2nd amendment take your whining and beeotching to the founding fathers. At least they can compose a sentence better than I can.

I can say that your sides effort to redefine the 2nd amendment will result in a grammatically correct bare knuckles political brawl.

[dislaxxic]

See added question, above...

..