Brexit

[holmes435]

Buy the way a couple Russian coconspirators wanted to go to trial immediately

Mueller declined

Link?

[holmes435]

It's funny that May has called for tons of votes on the same (and slightly different) Brexit deals. But calling for another referendum (which wasn't legally binding) is somehow unacceptable.

Simple majority votes on major issues seem to be like two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner. There are better ways.

[6ftstick]

Buy the way a couple Russian coconspirators wanted to go to trial immediately

Mueller declined

Link?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 594454002/

None of the charges had been expected to go anywhere because the companies and all of the individuals charged over the scheme are Russian. But on Wednesday, one of them, Concord Management and Consulting, LLC, dispatched a pair of lawyers to federal court in Washington to plead not guilty to the charges. One of the lawyers, Eric Dubelier, said Concord would "exercise our right to a speedy trial."

Mueller's office said in a court filing last week that Concord's lawyers had already demanded that prosecutors turn over "sensitive intelligence gathering, national security, and foreign affairs information," including details on electronic surveillance of the company and its employees.

Partly in light of those demands, prosecutors asked the court to put off Concord's arraignment. U.S. District Court Judge Dabney Friedrich denied the request without explanation.

[SCLaxAttack]

[quote=holmes435 post_id=37641 time=<a href="tel:1554169912">1554169912</a> user_id=354]
[quote=6ftstick post_id=37552 time=<a href="tel:1554140865">1554140865</a> user_id=300]
Buy the way a couple Russian coconspirators wanted to go to trial immediately

Mueller declined

Link?
[/quote]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 594454002/

None of the charges had been expected to go anywhere because the companies and all of the individuals charged over the scheme are Russian. But on Wednesday, one of them, Concord Management and Consulting, LLC, dispatched a pair of lawyers to federal court in Washington to plead not guilty to the charges. One of the lawyers, Eric Dubelier, said Concord would "exercise our right to a speedy trial."

Mueller's office said in a court filing last week that Concord's lawyers had already demanded that prosecutors turn over "sensitive intelligence gathering, national security, and foreign affairs information," including details on electronic surveillance of the company and its employees.

Partly in light of those demands, prosecutors asked the court to put off Concord's arraignment. U.S. District Court Judge Dabney Friedrich denied the request without explanation.
[/quote]

The way Russia has played us these past few years I have no reason to believe this “put me on trial” request isn’t just another way for them to discover what we know and don’t know related to their influencing tactics.

[holmes435]

Yeah, not sure what 6ftstick's beef is? That trial is still going on. In November a judge upheld Mueller's indictment of that company - Concord Management and Consulting

https://www.pacermonitor.com/public/cas ... nt_and_Con

[CU77]

Back on topic for this thread: It seems that if you "take back control" and give it to morons, you careen towards disaster. USA should take note.

Personal anecdote: I crossed the Ireland - Northern Ireland border in a rental car in the summer of 1984. I was stunned at the imposing border fortifications and numerous fully armed guards. I'd spent most of the previous year crossing the French - Swiss border on a daily basis, which was a picnic in comparison. Staying in a B&B in Northern Ireland that night, my hosts had me put my car (with Ireland plates) in their garage, to keep it from being vandalized.

Bringing this back, and risking restarting "the Troubles" that brought it about, is the height of insanity.

[HooDat]

Bringing this back, and risking restarting "the Troubles" that brought it about, is the height of insanity.

so, the UK not outsourcing its governance to Brussels will lead directly to a re-invigoration of the armed conflict between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?.....

[a fan]

Outsourcing its governance to Brussels is just a tad of an exaggeration, don't you think?

[HooDat]

How would you describe it?

[frmanfan]

Outsourcing British Rule to Brussels was what the whole thing was all about.

[RedFromMI]

Outsourcing British Rule to Brussels was what the whole thing was all about.

That is certainly the view of the Brexiters. If you are part of a cooperative, you have to abide by the rules of the cooperative. But underlying the move is the view that "our country" was being overtaken by "others" due to the free movement of citizens and that fear of the "other" became the overriding motive, IMHO. Sounds a bit like Trumpism in a way.

But the fact that the world economy has linked countries in ways not imaginable fifty years ago (who saw China as the place that made a lot of everything industrial?) has made for a lot of changes to how life is led in rural areas and small towns in particular. Those people saw their way of life disrupted and they did not feel they had any say in the change.

Those who migrated/lived in cities were more able to adapt and convert to a newer economy based on service, run for the most part with the increased ability to compute and network.

Now is the EU a total takeover of British rule? NO. But it is not a small effect either, and by ignoring the hinterland, both the US and UK have set themselves up for the uprising being expressed by Brexit in the UK and Trumpism in the US.

[a fan]

How would you describe it?

If you steal a loaf of bread in London, are the bobbies putting you on a plane to Brussels for prosecution?

[CU77]

Bringing this back, and risking restarting "the Troubles" that brought it about, is the height of insanity.

so, the UK not outsourcing its governance to Brussels will lead directly to a re-invigoration of the armed conflict between the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland?.....

Yes. Because you will either need to (1) put back the hard border, due to different customs rules and tariffs between EU member Ireland and non-member Northern Ireland, or (2) treat Northern Ireland under different rules from the rest of the UK, and have some sort of customs/tariffs check between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. Northern Ireland is resolutely opposed to this (and, in particular, this includes the minor Northern Ireland party that is currently propping up the Conservatives in Parliament) because they think (correctly) that it will cause economic friction that will lead businesses to want to locate elsewhere in the UK.

So that leaves (1) staying in the customs union (aka "outsourcing governance to Brusells"), or (2) a hard, customs-check border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. This will produce all sorts of dislocations that will make the locals mad. Guess who they'll blame??? Correct: those on the other side of the border, whichever side they're on.

[CU77]

by ignoring the hinterland, both the US and UK have set themselves up for the uprising being expressed by Brexit in the UK and Trumpism in the US.

True, but what would NOT "ignoring the hinterland" consist of? The only possible answer is: more socialism. More artificial, government-backed and government-funded initiatives and subsidies to make things better there.

But, the 1% has sold the hinterland on the exact opposite: tax cuts for the rich, social spending cuts for them.

"Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."

[OCanada]

It’s nativism driving the agenda. In the UK they want to leave because of Nativism and they were promised it wouldn’t hurt them. Bad mistake imo

[HooDat]

How would you describe it?

If you steal a loaf of bread in London, are the bobbies putting you on a plane to Brussels for prosecution?

no, but the folk sin Brussels are going to have said how the bread must be labeled, what ingredients it can (or cannot) have, and who is and is not included in your labor pool to bake it.

Brussels may also have a say in whether or not the bobbies CAN sent you to Brussels for prosecution.....

[HooDat]

It’s nativism driving the agenda. In the UK they want to leave because of Nativism and they were promised it wouldn’t hurt them. Bad mistake imo

what does this mean? Is "nativism" supposed to be a code-word for racism? Because that is how the word is used in the US.

Have you been to England? I cannot conceive of a less racist country. It's not the US with funny accents, they don't have our horrible history, and they were unique in their acceptance of anyone from any country in the British empire - they flat out don't see race.

If not racism, then what?

[CU77]

Have you been to England? I cannot conceive of a less racist country.

Are you joking? I haven't spent significant time there since the 80s, but back then …

In the 1970s and 1980s, black people in Britain were the victims of racist violence perpetrated by far-right groups such as the National Front.[21] During this period, it was also common for Black footballers to be subjected to racist chanting from crowd members.[22][23]

In the early 1980s, societal racism, discrimination and poverty — alongside further perceptions of powerlessness and oppressive policing — sparked a series of riots in areas with substantial African-Caribbean populations.[24] These riots took place in St Pauls in 1980, Brixton, Toxteth and Moss Side in 1981, St Pauls again in 1982, Notting Hill Gate in 1982, Toxteth in 1982, and Handsworth, Brixton and Tottenham in 1985.[25]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophobi ... ed_Kingdom

I very much doubt that all this has just quietly disappeared. See the above article for contemporary statistics.

[a fan]

no, but the folk sin Brussels are going to have said how the bread must be labeled, what ingredients it can (or cannot) have, and who is and is not included in your labor pool to bake it.

Yes. There are trade offs. Imagine that?

Brexiteers think that they can come up with a system where they win all around, with no down side. And the reason they think that is that their "leaders" told them so.

And, of course, now that Brexit passed and they have to come up with that "better system", it turns out that like with Repeal and Replace, those lying politicians didn't have a better solution after all.

Whoops.

Oh well. The Brexiteers "won", so what's the problem? They're all set, and don't have to worry about Brussels telling them what to do.

[OCanada]

Have I been to UK? I have spent a month in Scotland. My brother in law spent a year at Oxford teaching. I skevtca week in Wales and England. I don’t know what fantasyland anyone is living in who thinks racism is not a problem there. They are especially upset about immigration and Muslims and having to accept them under EU standards.

Nativism is the anyone who doesn’t look and act like us whoever us is. It’s huge in the UK especially in EnglandZ. Half of Scotland wants to stay. A majority would probably vote to stay if there were a second referendum. Same is true in Wales.

As to racism historically there is already data provided. I would add the English looked at the Irish as other. They originated rewards for heads and ears that the Brits brought to the USA. Their oppression was harsh. Racism? Study up on the Raj and the Opium wars in China or Lawrence in the Middle East.

When the “troubles” were active and the Irish were being profiled Scots and Welsh we’re taking in whatever for them. Then there is the matter of Indian genocide in the new world.