THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I was castigated here preseason for calling out cole and marr for all the penalties they committed last year. Danny Jones has EIGHT through 9 games. What is the justifiable reason for this?

Simple. You’re easily castigated.

Yeah, not sure what the question is.



DocBarrister

You are also. And your lemon trees.

Shows how behind-the-times you are. I traded in my lemon trees two years ago for two-dozen mature palm trees, a swimming pool, and four small waterfalls.

DocBarrister

Surely that’s a stunt and part of your Duke 2006 forgiveness tour.

[DocBarrister]

I was castigated here preseason for calling out cole and marr for all the penalties they committed last year. Danny Jones has EIGHT through 9 games. What is the justifiable reason for this?

Simple. You’re easily castigated.

Yeah, not sure what the question is.



DocBarrister

You are also. And your lemon trees.

Shows how behind-the-times you are. I traded in my lemon trees two years ago for two-dozen mature palm trees, a swimming pool, and four small waterfalls.

DocBarrister

Surely that’s a stunt and part of your Duke 2006 forgiveness tour.

You’re living in the past, old man. Quite sad. And I forgave Duke a long time ago.

DocBarrister

[HopFan16]

I was castigated here preseason for calling out cole and marr for all the penalties they committed last year. Danny Jones has EIGHT through 9 games. What is the justifiable reason for this?

He can be way too reckless at times and there's never an excuse for that but if we're talking specifically about yesterday's game, I don't have a huge problem with either penalty he committed. The first one looked like a totally clean check and CT to me—maybe a tiny bit of a hold after the ball is dislodged, but at worst that means it should have just been back to being Michigan's ball, not a time-served penalty. Dixon made a ridiculous comment that maybe it was a penalty because Jones could have "used his left hand," which made no sense at all because it was clearly a two-handed check, both of his hands were visible. I like Dixon but he thinks everything is a penalty—probably the inner ref in him coming out—and he'll sometimes do some mental gymnastics to come up with a justification for a ref's decision, which is what I believe happened in this instance.

The second penalty came when the score was 13-6 in the 4th quarter and the game was pretty much over, would like to see more discipline especially from a senior captain but it was a tough GB scrum by the sideline and it looked like there were a handful of slashes/crosschecks from both sides on the play. Noseworthy went headhunting for Jones but luckily for him he tripped over his own guy and never really made contact. If he does then that might be a 2-minute non-releasable for the Wolverines. Jones leads the team in CT for the second year in a row—yes he absolutely needs to play smarter sometimes but I think this has been pointed out once before—at his size he simply must be more aggressive than normal otherwise he'd get run over more often than not. There's a reason Petro lets him play that way when pretty much everyone else, except maybe Foley, rarely ever goes for those risky checks/hits.

Speaking of Foley, by the way, he had another great game and will need to be as good or probably better next weekend on Rutgers' Mullins who had 8 pts today against OSU. I assume that will be the matchup, with Rapine (who did great work on Buckanavage yesterday) on the Canadian finisher Charalambides.

[Hoponboard]

I don't understand Zinn not getting some run on an offensive line. His first step is almost always quick, decisive and instinctive. If he was really hurt why would you play him as a wing where there is plenty of grinding?

Don't ever question anything the coaching staff does. They have reasons for everything, and those are always the correct reasons, 100% of the time.

The story of yesterday was the play of the odd-man units: EMO went 4-9, man-down was 4-4. That's an 8-goal swing. Man-down has quietly played pretty well this year. If only the 6v6 defense could play with the same urgency.

Disappointed that all the "reserved" seats for Homecoming this weekend are sold out...was hoping to sit on the usual spot behind the Jays bench. Only available seats on that side of the field are all the way in the left corner. Otherwise all that's left is the University parkway side. Seen a lot of Hopkins games, have never watched one from that side.

I’ve got two center section, reserved seats for Homecoming. PM me if you are interested.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

I was castigated here preseason for calling out cole and marr for all the penalties they committed last year. Danny Jones has EIGHT through 9 games. What is the justifiable reason for this?

06,

I was just joking with you. You’re entitled to your observations and opinions. Don’t let anyone push you around.

There have been quite a few penalties, not by just Jones, that need to go away over the next four critical weekends. Like ones on the riding attack after the clear has gone past them.

Part of it, especially for a SSDM, is playing tough and all out. But there’s got to be better situational awareness too. Like, the game is close, can we afford being man down for one minute right now?

I asked a question about playing with injuries over the weekend, and whether players are out there when it would be better for more of the bench to fill in. I don’t think that question went anywhere. OC has mentioned cases in the past, some of which I’ve known too. The best story on that is Rewkowski.

Geez, need to have some reunions with folks. Hope we get good weather. Make that great weather.

W

[OCanada]

Per attendees at the game Saturday Zinn was hampered and was not 100%.

[ABV 8.3%]

All this talk for the coaching staff being fired for poor performance, is that what's going within the Duke B-Ball program? Rename coach k court? Duke BBall hasn't made the Final Four since 2015. Keep things in perspective Hopkins fans.

[jhu06]

mens basketball and lacrosse are apples and oranges. It will break ty xanders heart for example that per yahoo sports 0 2018 mcdonalds all americans and 0 2018 top 100 recruits are on teams playing in the basketball ff. As for jones on the broadcast dixon mentioned how petro said consistency and mental lapses have been part of the problem this year. when a sr captain is taking almost a penalty a game that hits on both of those fronts. To me the best stories every year are the kids that improve as their college careers go on and break through-john kaestner's sr year for example and jones has gotten better, but that's a break down in leadership a team this young and performing this poorly can't afford. Rutgers had a great game against OSU last weekend and they'll be loaded for Blue Jay this weekend.

[kramerica.inc]

If you get rid of the coach, who do you replace him with?
Not smart to fire someone without an eye to the replacement.

[runrussellrun]

If you get rid of the coach, who do you replace him with?
Not smart to fire someone without an eye to the replacement.

Besides the usual suspects, plenty of Hopkins recent lacrosse grads involved in lacrosse. Coaching, clinics, camps & clubs.

Boyle at Drexel. Goodrich 3D/Milton, Ryan Brown/Marquette......lots of others

[HopFan16]

This is one of those things that to me feels pointless to think about until there's actually something to think about. This season is not yet over. As poorly as things may have gone so far there is still a nonzero chance the season continues into May and people are a little happier around here when all is said and done. (Note I said "nonzero," not "likely.") But if there is a discussion to be had at the end of the year, finding a replacement will not be difficult. We've spent weeks talking about everything wrong with the program, but very little time talking about what's right about it, and why it would be one of the top jobs in the country should it become available, and would likely attract lots of talented candidates, young and old. It's the most historic and tradition-rich lacrosse program in existence, it's in the Big Ten and plays a top-class schedule every year, Homewood Field, Cordish Center, a large and influential alumni network, being in Baltimore and the hotbed of lacrosse, access to fertile recruiting areas, a contract with ESPN and Under Armor, etc etc, you get the point. We were just talking about Homecoming—name another school that centers its alumni weekend around a lacrosse game. Hopkins would not have to pitch itself to potential replacements. They would have to pitch themselves to Hopkins. It'd be the most lucrative opening in the sport in a long time. I think you would have to rewrite the rules about who is "off limits" and "untouchable."

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

This is one of those things that to me feels pointless to think about until there's actually something to think about. This season is not yet over. As poorly as things may have gone so far there is still a nonzero chance the season continues into May and people are a little happier around here when all is said and done. (Note I said "nonzero," not "likely.") But if there is a discussion to be had at the end of the year, finding a replacement will not be difficult. We've spent weeks talking about everything wrong with the program, but very little time talking about what's right about it, and why it would be one of the top jobs in the country should it become available, and would likely attract lots of talented candidates, young and old. It's the most historic and tradition-rich lacrosse program in existence, it's in the Big Ten and plays a top-class schedule every year, Homewood Field, Cordish Center, a large and influential alumni network, being in Baltimore and the hotbed of lacrosse, access to fertile recruiting areas, a contract with ESPN and Under Armor, etc etc, you get the point. We were just talking about Homecoming—name another school that centers its alumni weekend around a lacrosse game. Hopkins would not have to pitch itself to potential replacements. They would have to pitch themselves to Hopkins. It'd be the most lucrative opening in the sport in a long time. I think you would have to rewrite the rules about who is "off limits" and "untouchable."

16,

You’ve hit on a lot, a LOT, of valid points, but one big omission is how well the position will be PAID.

It is definitely not currently the top paying job in D1 Mlax. Probably not in the Top 5 and maybe not even in the Top 10.

Will the salary move higher if the current staff is retained and renewed?

If the position becomes open by whatever means (and that could include current staff moving on their own accord to a higher paying gig), then what?

So, hypothetically: Does the AD / Prez then offer a competitive and high salary, comparable to the current Top 5 paid positions? Or do they come in far lower thinking they’ll be getting someone with far less experience and can low ball the initial salary?

That right there will show you the commitment to future D1 Hopkins Lacrosse.

And, yes, it could be the makings of a mess similar to Navy’s OPERATION CHARLIE FOXTROT.

W

[Wheels]

If you get rid of the coach, who do you replace him with?
Not smart to fire someone without an eye to the replacement.

This is one of those things that to me feels pointless to think about until there's actually something to think about. This season is not yet over. As poorly as things may have gone so far there is still a nonzero chance the season continues into May and people are a little happier around here when all is said and done. (Note I said "nonzero," not "likely.") But if there is a discussion to be had at the end of the year, finding a replacement will not be difficult. We've spent weeks talking about everything wrong with the program, but very little time talking about what's right about it, and why it would be one of the top jobs in the country should it become available, and would likely attract lots of talented candidates, young and old. It's the most historic and tradition-rich lacrosse program in existence, it's in the Big Ten and plays a top-class schedule every year, Homewood Field, Cordish Center, a large and influential alumni network, being in Baltimore and the hotbed of lacrosse, access to fertile recruiting areas, a contract with ESPN and Under Armor, etc etc, you get the point. We were just talking about Homecoming—name another school that centers its alumni weekend around a lacrosse game. Hopkins would not have to pitch itself to potential replacements. They would have to pitch themselves to Hopkins. It'd be the most lucrative opening in the sport in a long time. I think you would have to rewrite the rules about who is "off limits" and "untouchable."

JHU might not be to literally get anyone they want, but they'd pretty much be able to get almost anyone they want. No, they couldn't peel Shay or Tillman away from Yale or Maryland (Toomey might be a little too old, too, but he'd be phenomenal at JHU). But they would get an established, elite coach. It's friggin' Johns Hopkins lacrosse. For all of the talk about "Oh, Nadelen likes Towson," give me a break. When Petro leaves, Nads will be the next coach. He will win and win big at Hopkins. Hell, even us Maryland fans are like, "Crap, we better enjoy Petro at JHU while we can because Nadelen is going to be a real problem for us."

[HopFan16]

16,

You’ve hit on a lot, a LOT, of valid points, but one big omission is how well the position will be PAID.

It is definitely not currently the top paying job in D1 Mlax. Probably not in the Top 5 and maybe not even in the Top 10.

Will the salary move higher if the current staff is retained and renewed?

If the position becomes open by whatever means (and that could include current staff moving on their own accord to a higher paying gig), then what?

So, hypothetically: Does the AD / Prez then offer a competitive and high salary, comparable to the current Top 5 paid positions? Or do they come in far lower thinking they’ll be getting someone with far less experience and can low ball the initial salary?

That right there will show you the commitment to future D1 Hopkins Lacrosse.

And, yes, it could be the makings of a mess similar to Navy’s OPERATION CHARLIE FOXTROT.

W

Absolutely—money is and will always be a factor here. Depends on who they'd be making the offer to, of course. Luckily a lot of states make the salaries of state employees public so we have some info to go off of.

Tillman - $303,000
Nadelen - $210,000
Marr - $186,000
Tiffany - $175,000

Couldn't immediately find numbers for Breschi, Meyers, Tambroni, or Brecht but for anyone who's got some time on their hands that info is probably available somewhere on the internet if you dig deep enough.

Petro's pay may not be in the top 5 nationally but I'd be shocked if it's not in the top 10. My guess is somewhere between Nadelen and Tillman. Someone here probably knows the actual number but isn't going to share it. I was surprised by how low Tiffany's number is—relatively speaking, of course.

Re: Toomey, can't see him leaving his alma mater for anyone, let alone a crosstown rival.

There's been a lot of talk that Nadelen and Marr are both very happy in their situations, and I don't doubt that at all. But if the time ever comes...you better believe they're answering Shanahan's call on the first ring.

[DocBarrister]

IF the time comes sooner than later, Hopkins will have its pick of some of the finest young coaches in the nation. Shawn Nadelen has done a tremendous job at Towson, and it is difficult to see him turning down the Hopkins head coaching job if he is offered it.

Having said that ... season’s not over for the Blue Jays. Yes, there is a very real chance Hopkins may not make the B1G tournament, much less the NCAAs. Even so, despite the doubters, I think this year’s very flawed and frequently frustrating Blue Jay squad has the talent and potential to reach the Final Four. Likely? Not at all. But realistically possible? I think the potential is there.

And if Petro leads the Blue Jays to the Final Four, he’s going to get a nice contract extension and this conversation will be moot.

DocBarrister

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

DocBKoolaid

38685AE0-7F65-4AD2-8F2A-CD40B45752EB.png (171.8 KiB) Viewed 2583 times

[DocBarrister]

^^^^

Goes well with a splash of Beluga Gold or Ciroc.

DocBarrister

[DMac]

Goes pretty good with Acapulco Gold too.
Relieves cottonmouth with no hangover.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Apparently goes well with dementia too.

[a fan]

Hopkins would not have to pitch itself to potential replacements. They would have to pitch themselves to Hopkins. It'd be the most lucrative opening in the sport in a long time. I think you would have to rewrite the rules about who is "off limits" and "untouchable."

Well, if you really believe all this, it's simple. They'll get Bill Tierney. Period.