NCAA Tournament

[Dr. Tact]

Well--as long as this is being bandied about, let's get another look at it, shall we?

Great goal....Great pass and finish....with 6 seconds left? Hmmmm

Sorry, but this shows, the goal wasn't open (sorry DMac). There was no restraint. If it is an action that is accepted/supported by the coaching staff, that is unfortunate. If it is a player that is overly exuberant and goes for and gets her career high in goals, that is also unfortunate. Both have reasons why it shouldn't have happened.

Before I get slammed...I really do think that BC won that game convincingly. I have no issue with the outcome. It isn't about my daughter or her team. Maybe it's my sense of fair play and such. I may be that guy that yells "get off my lawn".

[Dr. Tact]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be the one doing it tonight so...

[Dr. Tact]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

[DMac]

This is not about fair play, it's about high horses.

[Dr. Tact]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers.

After further review of your post, this is really unfortunate. I am disappointed that you wrote this. I try to give you every benefit of the doubt and support you, but this is one of those tone-deaf statements that people call you out on. I have tried to remain neutral with you but this is a silly statement.

[Dr. Tact]

This is not about fair play, it's about high horses.

I guess you have the highest.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

Clock's still running, teams are still playing--I don't get the fair play thing or the questionable decision thing as being worthy of even mild indignation. To reiterate from another thread--don't like the other team scoring late goals? Play better defense, make better saves in net. But don't let the other team score with seconds left and then after the game cry about the tenets of fair play being violated. No one wants to hear it except the team that lost, and those who see an opportunity to take pot shots at a program and a coach.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

2 hours until the best day of D1 Women's Lacrosse. May 29 may be the best game (finals), May 27 may be the best games (semifinals), but May 19 is the best day. Four great games today starting at noon.

In hindsight this is really true. Four games with their own time slot and captive audience, if you will. I found it immensely enjoyable. This is the equivalent of the NFL's Wild Card Weekend/Divisional round--only women's lacrosse does the four games in one day.

[Bart]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

I think there are two differing things happening here. You have a team up by many goals scoring at the end of the game. My personal opinion is that she probably should not have shot. Bad things could have happened.

The other is that you have a team still playing and playing hard in Loyola. The concept of fair play would indicate that if your opponent is still playing hard then you should as well. I would not expect an athlete to stop playing at any point if her competition was still playing. Now the coach could have said keep playing but do not score but evidently that did not happen. The quickest way for someone to get hurt is for one team to stop playing and have the other continue. If Ms North had not been pressured like she was in the final seconds by the Loyola defender then this scenario probably never happens and we are not having this conversation. Ms Smith certainly could have pulled the ball out but either her coach said nothing in that regard or she ignored her.

[Dr. Tact]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

Clock's still running, teams are still playing--I don't get the fair play thing or the questionable decision thing as being worthy of even mild indignation. To reiterate from another thread--don't like the other team scoring late goals? Play better defense, make better saves in net. But don't let the other team score with seconds left and then after the game cry about the tenets of fair play being violated. No one wants to hear it except the team that lost, and those who see an opportunity to take pot shots at a program and a coach.

Sad.

It is disrespectful. It is the reason that better teams remove their starters when playing lesser teams. It is the reason that teams will run out the clock on a possession (not this particular one) to not pursue unnecessary goals. If you do not see the value in that ethic, I cant convince you.

[laxagainsthumanity]

Nope. That's not ok. I've had to have a coach-to-player conversation about that type of thing (granted, younger kid and lower stakes). It's one thing if things are spread out and the cage is wide open, but this was not an easy goal. Most players/programs don't run that last play. It was a huge, very loud F you. Does it really matter, no not really. But it was absolutely, 100%, beyond debate classless. Not terribly surprised to see who some of the dissenters are about that.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

Clock's still running, teams are still playing--I don't get the fair play thing or the questionable decision thing as being worthy of even mild indignation. To reiterate from another thread--don't like the other team scoring late goals? Play better defense, make better saves in net. But don't let the other team score with seconds left and then after the game cry about the tenets of fair play being violated. No one wants to hear it except the team that lost, and those who see an opportunity to take pot shots at a program and a coach.

Sad.

It is disrespectful. It is the reason that better teams remove their starters when playing lesser teams. It is the reason that teams will run out the clock on a possession (not this particular one) to not pursue unnecessary goals. If you do not see the value in that ethic, I cant convince you.

If we were discussing the ladies tea auxiliary, yes. But rough tough women's lacrosse? No freaking way.
And Bart makes a good point which is what I alluded to earlier--Loyola was still playing like it mattered--why shouldn't BC?

[laxagainsthumanity]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

Clock's still running, teams are still playing--I don't get the fair play thing or the questionable decision thing as being worthy of even mild indignation. To reiterate from another thread--don't like the other team scoring late goals? Play better defense, make better saves in net. But don't let the other team score with seconds left and then after the game cry about the tenets of fair play being violated. No one wants to hear it except the team that lost, and those who see an opportunity to take pot shots at a program and a coach.

Sad.

It is disrespectful. It is the reason that better teams remove their starters when playing lesser teams. It is the reason that teams will run out the clock on a possession (not this particular one) to not pursue unnecessary goals. If you do not see the value in that ethic, I cant convince you.

If we were discussing the ladies tea auxiliary, yes. But rough tough women's lacrosse? No freaking way.
And Bart makes a good point which is what I alluded to earlier--Loyola was still playing like it mattered--why shouldn't BC?

Because BC was winning by 6 with 20 seconds left and the shot clock off. Just because the losing team isn't walking off the field to load the bus, doesn't mean you shove another goal down their throat. It's really not that complicated.

[Bart]

Gotta side with D here. It was no biggie--Belle's 7th. Falls under the category of Loser's Lament. Any kind of whining after a game that was lost is annoying--whether it's about the refs or the players scoring late or whatever--it's a discordant clanging which pretty much no one wants to hear except the losers. Folks don't like BC for different reasons, but this was a real reach of an issue to make about the player, the coach and the school. No one got slashed or sticked or elbowed or kneed. No one got hurt. Just a team ran a play in the closing seconds and scored. Some of the Loyola players were still playing like it mattered so BC decided to try a play. You can see Smith point to North which way to run the play seconds beforehand. The whole thing is much ado about nothing. But it was good for a few chuckles on a not much happening Friday night.

ONW that is unfortunate. There is no Loser's lament. I am sorry you feel that way.

In the general sense, Doc. Not you specifically. But you happened to be doing it tonight so...

What does that mean? I am not lamenting about anything. This whole thing is about a questionable decision in a game that was well in hand. I dont give 2 F****S about who won the game. I think it is disrespectful to score on a team with no time left, just because you can. I would say the same thing about your favorite teams as well.

It has nothing to do with someone not getting hurt, or the fact that one player signaled to another, or that the defense was still trying. That is irrelevant .

I guess I am on an island regarding the concept of fair play.

Clock's still running, teams are still playing--I don't get the fair play thing or the questionable decision thing as being worthy of even mild indignation. To reiterate from another thread--don't like the other team scoring late goals? Play better defense, make better saves in net. But don't let the other team score with seconds left and then after the game cry about the tenets of fair play being violated. No one wants to hear it except the team that lost, and those who see an opportunity to take pot shots at a program and a coach.

Sad.

It is disrespectful. It is the reason that better teams remove their starters when playing lesser teams. It is the reason that teams will run out the clock on a possession (not this particular one) to not pursue unnecessary goals. If you do not see the value in that ethic, I cant convince you.

If we were discussing the ladies tea auxiliary, yes. But rough tough women's lacrosse? No freaking way.
And Bart makes a good point which is what I alluded to earlier--Loyola was still playing like it mattered--why shouldn't BC?

Yes, I did make that point. But IMO, AWW should have taken all of her starters off the field after the yellow. Leaving them out there just puts them in possible harms way for injury. I'd put every Sr that may not get in any other potential NCAA game on the field to take it home. I would not have let them score. AWW left her starters in there. That is on her.

[Dr. Tact]

If we were discussing the ladies tea auxiliary, yes. But rough tough women's lacrosse? No freaking way.
And Bart makes a good point which is what I alluded to earlier--Loyola was still playing like it mattered--why shouldn't BC?

ONW- What you may not know about girls/womens lacrosse (you didnt play, coach or parent) is that when a team is ahead on the offensive side, the defense is always trying as hard as they can to get the ball back. This is taught from the earliest age. At the end of the game (This isn't rocket science), the offense typically tries to play "keep away" and not let the D get the ball. Yes, the defense is trying/playing hard (to Bart's point), as hard as they can, but the Offense has no need or interest in scoring. Scoring only allows for a draw control and possible possessions, so it isn't in their best interest to score. When you have a 6 goal lead and the Defense is doing all they can to get the ball and try to come back, the Offense has no need to score at all. In fact, the most important thing for the Offense is to kill the clock (so no scoring or "Bad things" like injuries can happen). That is why it is so infuriating/classless to score with mere seconds left. It isn't about preserving a win. It is a big F you to the losing team. I would say the same damn thing if Loyola did it to BC or if my princess did it to another team. I am not suffering with your loser's lament. I am sad that it happened and further sad that you do not see that it is disrespectful.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

As I say--I'm with D on this. I agree with his take on it pretty much down the line.

They could get injured, it isn't respectful--all irrelevant in my book. Players get injured all the time when they aren't even in a game. Just ask Syracuse about their rotten luck in that department. And it isn't respectful? So the team that was disrespected will have something to remember and brood over for what, months, years? To what end? DMac is right. It's not important and certainly not scold/shame worthy. In rough tough big girls lacrosse, sometimes the goals come late with all the starters on the field. Oh the injustice of it! The effrontery! Please.

[njbill]

I agree with Doc. This is black and white. Bad sportsmanship. Sorry, but no reasonable person could disagree with that. I can kinda understand the attitude of the uber BC fanboy (defend the homeland at all costs), though that doesn’t make him right. Not by a longshot.

BC is the reigning national champion. I think they have a greater responsibility to do the right thing.

This was disrespecting your opponent, not to mention showing appalling disrespect for the person who many think is the greatest player of all time. A bad look for BC. A bad look for Smith. A bad look for North. Maybe a bad look for Walker (depending on her instructions). And even a bad look for the sport.

Unfortunately, BC is not alone in committing acts of bad sportsmanship. It is all too common in the sport these days. Players flopping. Players faking that they have been hit or fouled. And worse (much worse) coaches teaching their players to pretend they have been fouled.

Loyola was not aggressively defending in the last 20-30 secs. They were following the ball, but they were playing off. And they were only defending at all because BC was still attacking.

With ten seconds to go, North is outside the 12. She crosses into the 8 (why?) and passes to Smith (why?) with 8 secs left. Smith shoots (why?) less than a second later. North should not have made that pass and Smith should not have taken that shot. Period. End of story.

What BC should have done is what the large majority of teams do in such situations. Pass the ball around way outside. Play keep away. Oftentimes games like this end with a player on the winning team winging the ball high into the air trying to break the Guinness World Record for highest ball toss.

In basketball, the player casually dribbles at mid-court. They don’t drive to the hoop for one last basket. In soccer, they pass the ball around aimlessly in the midfield as time runs out. They don’t go to goal. In football, they take a knee at the two yard line. They don’t punch it in for a meaningless touchdown.

Is this the worst thing that has ever happened in the sport. No. Of course not. But it was bad. It’s not a permanent black mark on the BC program, but it’s one that will last the rest of this year and perhaps into next season.

[hmmm]

I do not remember this indignation when Loyola scored with one second left against Hopkins to make it 14-5(No it was not your daughter but I believe she was still in the game). Regardless it was a Loyola starter that scored it. If the defense is still playing hard why are you lamenting the offense scoring a meaningless goal? Do I think belle should have scored there? No. But you can’t have the defense chasing and swinging at girls and then chastising the offense for scoring a goal. My 2 cents.

In that game in the last 3.5 minutes Jillian scored twice, and Livy and Georgia both scored once. Hopkins had subbed out. Pot meet kettle.

[njbill]

Haha. Now we have the Hopkins brigade dredging up stuff from months ago. Actually that proves that this incident will live on for some time.

I don't remember the goal you mention from earlier in the year, but if it was as you describe it, then, yeah, that too was bad sportsmanship. I guess I can see why you are a little biased as to the BC -- Loyola incident. But you do see that you are being hypocritical, right? If one was bad sportsmanship, then the other one was as well.

And, sigh, your question has been answered multiple times.

Loyola was not aggressively defending or swinging sticks. They were simply guarding the player with the ball. They were only defending at all because BC was continuing to attack. And even if Loyola had been applying strong pressure (they weren't), that still doesn't excuse BC's going to goal. BC should have simply stayed outside until the clock ran out.