Could Duke or Notre Dame beat these teams?

[suitcase10]

ND had the #17 SOS. Not good enough. Schedule some tougher teams than Detroit Mercy next year.

ND had 8 games scheduled
Against the pre season top 12. Their schedule looked ridiculously hard. I know it didn’t play out that way, but your comment is way off base and misleading IMO.

[random observer]

I actually think the RPI is fairly decent given the limited sample size; by straight RPI, ND and Duke would have been in, which is ironic given how much fans of those programs suddenly hated the metric when they thought it wouldn't benefit them. My main issue is that it penalizes teams for playing upstart programs regardless of result and even if said matchup is an extra game rather than in lieu of a tougher matchup. I think scheduling the St. Bonaventure's and Detroit Mercy's of the world is good for the development of those programs whilst allowing players at big time schools who ride the bench to get game action. That's how you get scenarios like Cornell a few years back, where playing St. Bonaventure dropped their RPI below an ND team they beat on the road, and cost them a tourney slot.

Just spitballing, but one idea that might improve the system would be to standardize it to 12 games -- all of your losses and then your top wins to fill out the 12 (so if you had 5 losses, your top 7 wins would be factored into the RPI). That way if you were to add a 15th game to your schedule against a newer program, you wouldn't get dinged vs. if you had just played 14 games (unless you lose of course). It would be a great way to encourage teams to play more games overall IMO.

ND was a good team this year, but I'm not prepared to say they were a leading contender for the final four when they lost most of their matchups against tournament-caliber opposition. They might have been a great team, but the results we have cast doubt on that. Ultimately I think they or Duke deserved the last at large over Harvard. But the selection of Harvard over them was more of a margin call gone wrong than a miscarriage of justice, even though I think ND is likely the better team. They scheduled the minimum number of games and had a small margin for error. If they had given themselves more bites at the apple, they could have secured the extra win they needed to lock themselves in.

[Hail to the Victors]

Well…a quantitative system at least allows transparency of a system that puts everyone on clear equal footing. Creates trust and transparency that’s it critical to any organism or system to thrive and grow.

Ummm, maybe, maybe not.

[wgdsr]

I actually think the RPI is fairly decent given the limited sample size; by straight RPI, ND and Duke would have been in, which is ironic given how much fans of those programs suddenly hated the metric when they thought it wouldn't benefit them. My main issue is that it penalizes teams for playing upstart programs regardless of result and even if said matchup is an extra game rather than in lieu of a tougher matchup. I think scheduling the St. Bonaventure's and Detroit Mercy's of the world is good for the development of those programs whilst allowing players at big time schools who ride the bench to get game action. That's how you get scenarios like Cornell a few years back, where playing St. Bonaventure dropped their RPI below an ND team they beat on the road, and cost them a tourney slot.

Just spitballing, but one idea that might improve the system would be to standardize it to 12 games -- all of your losses and then your top wins to fill out the 12 (so if you had 5 losses, your top 7 wins would be factored into the RPI). That way if you were to add a 15th game to your schedule against a newer program, you wouldn't get dinged vs. if you had just played 14 games (unless you lose of course). It would be a great way to encourage teams to play more games overall IMO.

ND was a good team this year, but I'm not prepared to say they were a leading contender for the final four when they lost most of their matchups against tournament-caliber opposition. They might have been a great team, but the results we have cast doubt on that. Ultimately I think they or Duke deserved the last at large over Harvard. But the selection of Harvard over them was more of a margin call gone wrong than a miscarriage of justice, even though I think ND is likely the better team. They scheduled the minimum number of games and had a small margin for error. If they had given themselves more bites at the apple, they could have secured the extra win they needed to lock themselves in.

st bonnies cost cornell getting in over umd if they went straight rpi in 2019, not notre dame. notre dame was #8.

i've thought up similar scenarios with respect to rpi and lowest denominator games, yours could be a good one.

putting both harvard and tosu in over both duke and notre dame is the issue, imo. particularly with precedent, or even without it the committee falling all over themselves to concoct a scenario that didn't follow their own stated emphasis. we need a system.

[stupefied]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

[Typical Lax Dad]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

[wgdsr]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

[MoralTerpitude]

You guys are still arguing about this?

Don't know if you'd heard... there's a pretty compelling lacrosse tournament going on right now.

[Farfromgeneva]

Well…a quantitative system at least allows transparency of a system that puts everyone on clear equal footing. Creates trust and transparency that’s it critical to any organism or system to thrive and grow.

Ummm, maybe, maybe not.

At a minimum in a reliance basis it does. I can’t help it if people are selfish.

[Farfromgeneva]

You guys are still arguing about this?

Don't know if you'd heard... there's a pretty compelling lacrosse tournament going on right now.

Cant be that compelling since I heard from an “expert source” that Maryland is already planning their championship party and have assumed the mercy rule will be called today vs UVM early in Q2..

[Asgot]

Game One:

Boston Univ (AQ) - Yes
#5 Princeton - Yes

This game is not good

Neither team would beat Princeton and BU was an AQ

[ICGrad]

You guys are still arguing about this?

Don't know if you'd heard... there's a pretty compelling lacrosse tournament going on right now.

WE JUST NEED A FEW MORE DAYS TO STRAIGHTEN THIS ALL OUT. ASK THEM IF THEY CAN WAIT UNTIL NEXT WEEKEND TO START THE TOURNAMENT...

[random observer]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

Duke lost to Loyola, Cuse, and Jacksonville. Are we supposed to forget about all of those losses because of one great win? Richmond also beat Virginia and I didn't see anyone beating the drum for their at-large consideration in the event that they hadn't gotten the AQ.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are. Who did those teams play yesterday or do they play today?

[wgdsr]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are.

right. so who would you put in if top wins and bad losses were your priority (and losses were ~equal)? h-to-h being a tiebreaker only.

[masondixonlax]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are. Who did those teams play yesterday or do they play today?

They haven't beat anyone besides Duke... ND fans stop crying. They had their chance to beat Ohio state, Virginia, Maryland, & Georgetown and lost every time.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are.

right. so who would you put in if top wins and bad losses were your priority (and losses were ~equal)? h-to-h being a tiebreaker only.

I am satisfied with the selections. My one change would possibly be Duke in over Harvard. But that’s just my opinion.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are. Who did those teams play yesterday or do they play today?

They haven't beat anyone besides Duke... ND fans stop crying. They had their chance to beat Ohio state, Virginia, Maryland, & Georgetown and lost every time.

What time does Duke play today?

[wgdsr]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are.

right. so who would you put in if top wins and bad losses were your priority (and losses were ~equal)? h-to-h being a tiebreaker only.

I am satisfied with the selections. My one change would possibly be Duke in over Harvard. But that’s just my opinion.

that's nd vs tosu. the good news is, we get to do it all over again next year.

[masondixonlax]

Most likely would but hypothetical

The methodology is what it is , some very good teams have been left out in the past but don't ever remember a team ranked fourth at season end being left out ?

Duke totally dismantled UVA a month ago but lost one goal games to ND twice afterward . In the 2nd game they dominated the first half only to be dominated in the second so can't sympathize.


ND meanwhile should have been a highly seeded team hosting a opening round home game

https://und.com/sports/mlax/schedule/

Show me the wins that support an invite.

7, 7, 18 >> 11, 14, 18

I don’t know teams who those teams are. Who did those teams play yesterday or do they play today?

They haven't beat anyone besides Duke... ND fans stop crying. They had their chance to beat Ohio state, Virginia, Maryland, & Georgetown and lost every time.

What time does Duke play today?

I think the women's team plays MD @ 1 today