Why is there no Boston College Mens Varsity lacrosse?

[ICGrad]

There was the recent April Fool's news about Salisbury going D1 and joining the ACC. RIT might be a better candidate, as it is D1 in ice hockey. Both of these schools might look at Hobart going from perennial national champion to current D1 mid-tier status and think twice about switching divisions... and in any case, both are probably quite happy where they are.

It's a moot point because I think the NCAA is done granting these kinds of exemptions.

[Farfromgeneva]

I apologize if this has been posted somewhere else, feel free to move it, but why do they have a powerhouse womens team and no mens varsity team ?

This question could be asked about Stanford, Northwestern, James Madison, UConn, Florida, USC, Arizona State... the list is even longer for women's non-powerhouse at schools without men's lacrosse. Having women's lacrosse is not a reason why schools will add men's lacrosse.

Right it’s actually the opposite because adding both sides is the cleanest, easiest story to tell a BOT and donors.

Right, makes sense for Title IX. So Wake Forest and/or North Carolina State of the ACC could add both men' and women's. NC State once had men's lax and dropped it. I've mentioned Wake Forest before as a school that seems like it has a good private-school profile for lax.

There was the recent April Fool's news about Salisbury going D1 and joining the ACC. RIT might be a better candidate, as it is D1 in ice hockey. Both of these schools might look at Hobart going from perennial national champion to current D1 mid-tier status and think twice about switching divisions... and in any case, both are probably quite happy where they are.

Any chance of luring Army and/or Navy into the ACC, at least for lacrosse? Since the Terps decamped to the Big 10, the ACC could sure use a Maryland institution.

Wake seems like a potentially good option not knowing their numbers. NC State adds and you have four schools within 2hrs in NC - UNC, Duke, NC State & High Point over west in the Triad area. Richmond isn’t that far of a trip up I85.

But…are ACC folks pining for this or everyone else? Conveniently using this season to get what they want anyways (non acc fans).

Consider Hobart played 50% of its reg season schedules against generally too D1 schools when they won 12 at straight championships (13/15 lot of the kids were pretty distracted with the move up at the end of the run). The transition would surely be far more difficult now. Salisbury would never do it because they don’t have the athletic department to move it all up including a fairly solid D3 football program. RIT doesn’t have football and already has D1 hockey but BB? And being a stem focused school id have to assume the budgetary implications of moving up would get into Title 9 territory.

[Laxrules10]

Gene Defillipo who was the long time AD at BC (and a notorious lax opponent) used to use the excuse that BC was the only ACC member (at the time) that had men's and women's hockey, so adding men's lacrosse was an impossibility:

https://bceagles.com/news/2006/6/5/Live ... _DeFilippo

I agree though, with the recent success of the Women's program, a newish AD in place, and BU with a strong ramp-up to making the NCAA's, it would make sense for a revisit.

My understanding from someone close to the process is that DeFilippo told a group of highly motivated lacrosse alums that if they could raise $15M, then BC would reinstate men's lacrosse. When the group succeeded in their fundraising and went back to DeFilippo with the good news, he moved the goal posts and said it actually had to be $25M. Understandably, the group lost motivation at that point.

I heard the exact same story from a BC lax alum a few weeks ago. I don't understand why they would not want a men's lax team at no cost to the school?

[Farfromgeneva]

There was the recent April Fool's news about Salisbury going D1 and joining the ACC. RIT might be a better candidate, as it is D1 in ice hockey. Both of these schools might look at Hobart going from perennial national champion to current D1 mid-tier status and think twice about switching divisions... and in any case, both are probably quite happy where they are.

It's a moot point because I think the NCAA is done granting these kinds of exemptions.

Yeah I’ve heard folks inside Bart have been told by NCAA officials that if they had their way they’d get rid of all grandfathered institutions - including Hop, they don’t care about lacrosse. It’s about the same as FDIC officials I’ve spoken to privately saying they’d prefer that about 2,000-3,000 of the 4,800 banks in this country disappear.

[ICGrad]

There was the recent April Fool's news about Salisbury going D1 and joining the ACC. RIT might be a better candidate, as it is D1 in ice hockey. Both of these schools might look at Hobart going from perennial national champion to current D1 mid-tier status and think twice about switching divisions... and in any case, both are probably quite happy where they are.

It's a moot point because I think the NCAA is done granting these kinds of exemptions.

Yeah I’ve heard folks inside Bart have been told by NCAA officials that if they had their way they’d get rid of all grandfathered institutions - including Hop, they don’t care about lacrosse. It’s about the same as FDIC officials I’ve spoken to privately saying they’d prefer that about 2,000-3,000 of the 4,800 banks in this country disappear.

I think either you let everyone play by the same rules, or no one.

If Hopkins can offer scholarships for Lacrosse, then Hobart should be allowed to, also. Same with hockey: If Clarkson and St Lawrence can offer scholarships, Union should be able to, too.

If that's untenable, ship 'em all back to their respective divisions.

But at least they did away with whatever shenanigans Dayton was pulling with their football team in the '80s and '90s.

[Farfromgeneva]

There was the recent April Fool's news about Salisbury going D1 and joining the ACC. RIT might be a better candidate, as it is D1 in ice hockey. Both of these schools might look at Hobart going from perennial national champion to current D1 mid-tier status and think twice about switching divisions... and in any case, both are probably quite happy where they are.

It's a moot point because I think the NCAA is done granting these kinds of exemptions.

Yeah I’ve heard folks inside Bart have been told by NCAA officials that if they had their way they’d get rid of all grandfathered institutions - including Hop, they don’t care about lacrosse. It’s about the same as FDIC officials I’ve spoken to privately saying they’d prefer that about 2,000-3,000 of the 4,800 banks in this country disappear.

I think either you let everyone play by the same rules, or no one.

If Hopkins can offer scholarships for Lacrosse, then Hobart should be allowed to, also. Same with hockey: If Clarkson and St Lawrence can offer scholarships, Union should be able to, too.

If that's untenable, ship 'em all back to their respective divisions.

But at least they did away with whatever shenanigans Dayton was pulling with their football team in the '80s and '90s.

Whoa whoa whoa. As a former football player who may or may not have been involved in an “altercation” in the end zone after a game with Union I don’t agree with anything that benefits the Dutchboys in any way, shape or form.

Everything else you said - fine.

[faircornell]

This might have been mentioned, but BC used to have men's lacrosse. I knew two of the coaches from their younger days. They coached in the 80s and 90's.

[ICGrad]

Gene Defillipo who was the long time AD at BC (and a notorious lax opponent)

How are you an AD and a notorious opponent of one of the sports potentially under your purview?

What happened, did a lax bro beat up his dad? Did his wife run off with an assistant lax coach?

[Homer]

The acc clearly needs another team and BC has the pedigree, money and that other thing to get good players and be competitive. The answer can’t just be Title Nine, that doesn’t answer anything.

I'm not sure that the ACC "needs" another team. This was the first year in memory that it's even conceivable the league would've benefited from having an AQ. But that itself was only because for the first time in recent memory the ACC had a team hanging out around the 30 spot in RPI, costing the league its usual advantage in SOS & QW. Unless BC is going to emerge as a top 15 squad right away, they'd probably hurt the ACC collectively more than they'd help for at least the first few years.

But even if we assume the 5 existing ACC members with mlax would benefit from another team, why is that BC's problem? What good does adding men's varsity lacrosse do for Boston College?

First answer: sports are cool, lacrosse is fun. That's not nothing. Presumably it's what *we're* all here for. Okay, what else?

There are already people applying to Boston College, getting admitted, paying tuition, and playing men's lacrosse. Will it make those people happier if they get to play varsity lacrosse instead of club lacrosse? Yeah, probably, I guess. Will that extra increment of happiness make them more loyal/generous/bigger donors to the school? Uh, who knows. We're talking about a very speculative marginal benefit down the line for a very definite increase in upfront expense.

BC is a selective school; they don't need "heads in beds." Lacrosse won't make you money from ticket sales, or TV, or licensing. Would being good at mlax help market the school?

Something like Loyola winning the title in 2012 probably moves the needle a little. It makes the school look capable and dynamic, it turns heads. At the more typical level of "every third year or so you're in the NCAA quarters, and people waiting to catch a flight take in a bit of the game" -- which would be a wildly positive outcome for a startup program -- does "oh, huh, Boston College, I guess they're good at lacrosse" actually put the school on anybody's radar who wouldn't previously have paid it any mind?

If you're interviewing this summer for BC's athletic director position, and I say all that to you, what's your response?

[Njlaxx11]

Virginia Tech would be a better ACC option. They have a strong club program and could transition well with the 12 scholarship additions. Much like Utah has done.

BC has been just as competitive in the club world. Plus BC had already been a D1 program.

[Farfromgeneva]

Ga Tech is in the club finals again but between gender ratio and the disaster that is their athletic finances, a JV version of UMD/Rutgers, that’s not happening as long as my FIL is still alive (when he passes I can try to get his endowed women’s BB scholly moved to varsity lacrosse but I doubt that $800k moves the needle)

[laxpert]

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges ... fe/sports/

Might be some creative accounting on the revenue side in this analysis. BC is currently offering just about every female sport possible including Spirit Team. Important data point, the Women's lax team expenses are 1.7 million so you're going to need at least that for Men's. Adding Men's Lacrosse would require an influential Sugar Daddy (ie. Richmond, Utah, Penn State Hockey) along with a supportive AD.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges ... fe/sports/

Might be some creative accounting on the revenue side in this analysis. BC is currently offering just about every female sport possible including Spirit Team. Important data point, the Women's lax team expenses are 1.7 million so you're going to need at least that for Men's. Adding Men's Lacrosse would require an influential Sugar Daddy (ie. Richmond, Utah, Penn State Hockey) along with a supportive AD.

I always figured you needed $20mm base endowed. 501c3 tax law requires you spend 5%/annum so that gets you $1mm/yr. Not fully funded per se but more than halfway.

Surprised to see $1.7mm for women’s. Historically Hobart has spent about $500k/yr on lacrosse (it’s gone up but wayyy less than $1mm) but that’s sans scholarships which at (state school pricing for out of state) $40k/yr would be another half million so even there more like $1mm -$1.25mm. Maybe there’s transfer pricing issues in allocating cost of shared facilities, some of which may be superfluous for all but football but they spread it around to mute football costs optically?

[wahoomurf]

BC had a club lacrosse team a few years ago.The coach was a chap named Eugene Uchaz(?sp) from Garden City L.I.

A number of women from GC have played lacrosse for the BC women's team.Currently,the team's 2nd leading scorer is from Garden City.

I realize Ice Hockey is THE sport at BC but I'm surprised they don't have a men's lacrosse team as yet.

[OCanada]

The answer.

https://newspapers.bc.edu/?a=d&d=bcheig ... xIN-------

Summary: they dropped three sports bcs of Titie IX

[wgdsr]

BC had a club lacrosse team a few years ago.The coach was a chap named Eugene Uchaz(?sp) from Garden City L.I.

A number of women from GC have played lacrosse for the BC women's team.Currently,the team's 2nd leading scorer is from Garden City.

I realize Ice Hockey is THE sport at BC but I'm surprised they don't have a men's lacrosse team as yet.

they still have a club team. made the final 16 in austin. traveled to ga, fla, texas and california earlier in the year and had beaten the eventual nat'l champ and several other top 10 club teams.

they have a men's lacrosse team, not an nc$$ team.

[HowieT3]

Georgia Tech probably has the best MCLA team of the ACC schools. They've been to a number of Final 4s. They also have Title IX room, but the athletic department is continually broke.

In the last year VPI had a varsity, UVa beat them 27-0.

The ACC doesn't need a 6th team as much as it needs a 7th team. That way there are two newbies and they are playing for 6th place, not ending up in 6th place.

DeFilippo was quoted as saying "I'll start a {insert sport here} team when Florida State starts a hockey team." To call him a disaster is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He fired Al Skinner, killing basketball, and Jeff Jagodzinski, that set back football for a while and is only now starting to show signs of recovery.

[Farfromgeneva]

Georgia Tech probably has the best MCLA team of the ACC schools. They've been to a number of Final 4s. They also have Title IX room, but the athletic department is continually broke.

In the last year VPI had a varsity, UVa beat them 27-0.

The ACC doesn't need a 6th team as much as it needs a 7th team. That way there are two newbies and they are playing for 6th place, not ending up in 6th place.

DeFilippo was quoted as saying "I'll start a {insert sport here} team when Florida State starts a hockey team." To call him a disaster is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He fired Al Skinner, killing basketball, and Jeff Jagodzinski, that set back football for a while and is only now starting to show signs of recovery.

Was at a function where the prior AD was begging for money to buyout Paul Hewitt within three months of giving him a 6-7yr extension, the top donor alums all demurred and they ended up buying him out at 100 cents on the dollar and have been hiring coaches from Hobby Lobby since. FB team is a disaster. Had 50yd like seats and ADs box for two games they lost by an average of 7tds last year.

Tech ain’t adding s**t.

[hofpride]

does the cost of running a lax program in these analysis include all financial aid , need based , academic , or outright athletic scholarships ?

[10stone5]

Georgia Tech probably has the best MCLA team of the ACC schools. They've been to a number of Final 4s. They also have Title IX room, but the athletic department is continually broke.

In the last year VPI had a varsity, UVa beat them 27-0.

The ACC doesn't need a 6th team as much as it needs a 7th team. That way there are two newbies and they are playing for 6th place, not ending up in 6th place.

DeFilippo was quoted as saying "I'll start a {insert sport here} team when Florida State starts a hockey team." To call him a disaster is to give him the benefit of the doubt. He fired Al Skinner, killing basketball, and Jeff Jagodzinski, that set back football for a while and is only now starting to show signs of recovery.

Was at a function where the prior AD was begging for money to buyout Paul Hewitt within three months of giving him a 6-7yr extension, the top donor alums all demurred and they ended up buying him out at 100 cents on the dollar and have been hiring coaches from Hobby Lobby since. FB team is a disaster. Had 50yd like seats and ADs box for two games they lost by an average of 7tds last year.

Tech ain’t adding s**t.

I mean,

it goes without saying,
these people don’t live in the real world.

I recall coaches getting po’d at me,
no scholarship lucre,
had to work for a living and would miss fall ball or other
events.

Hey, we got blah blah blah next week.
No can do.
Gotta work.