Texas 2019

[ghostofstblax]

Buhund I agree 100%, which is exactly why I hated seeing STblax stop posting. Hopefully, he will say f it and return. I enjoyed his game previews even if I didn't agree or if they turned out to be wrong. At least he put himself out there with predictions can't always be dialed in when you are talking about teenage boys. I will take his lead and predict DJ avenges preseason loss to Coppell. Won't pick a score - not as crazy as he was. Curious to see how DJ does in FL.

[HooDat]

too many people with an axe to grind....

there is still a lot of wild-wild-west in terms of people seeking to profit off of lacrosse in Texas - so take everything you hear and read with a big ol' Texas sized grain of salt!!!

[buhund]

A rising tide lifts all boats.

[HooDat]

a sucker is born every minute?

[allagash]

Hello- newbie here

[laxman]

So I am going to bring this up again.
I looked on THSLL and noticed a 1-0 score.

Colleyville forfeited another game to FM.

Great job by the league.

So what are we doing as a state league? Grow the game? Are we? What are we doing to do that???

I am going to take the North for instance and go on a little rant....

So the league would not allow Grapevine form since it would hurt Colleyville. Well it looks like that was a bad move...Colleyville is already done and grapevine is not even allowed to play. Colleyville has forfeited three games. IS that good for the game? Fair to those teams? Players?

Side rant....
McKinney/Frisco/Rockwall. Each have multiple schools. Why are they not splitting up? McKinney could be at least two teams and same with Frisco. Frisco has so many players on their sidelines. I counted 6 goalies at the HS.
Grow the game? Are they?
I believe the league as a whole needs to look at why teams are folding, not splitting, etc.

I do not the number but has the sport grown in team numbers??? Over the last 4 years has the sport grown? It seems easier to grow within that just start from scratch. Start at the youth and push thru.

What about splitting of Public and Private. In the North we hear of it happening all the time. Kid leave a public school to play at a private. The privates land up being a glorified 'select team'. No big doing that, but then having to compete against them the publics are always short changed.
Think about it, if you have the publics by themselves you would have final fours with public schools. Teams would not be kicked out of the first round when playing ESD, St Marks, Jesuit. This would help teams grow. Maybe why teams do not want to go from D2 to D1. Notice that D2 teams have no problem playing D1 publics schools but not D1 privates??

Do the public school coaches actually like and are ok with it? It seems as though there is more publics than privates. Why not vote for two separate leagues?? Every other state does.

[ghostofstblax]

I think we should look at braking up into 3 leagues with a tournament of champions based on size. TAPPS / SPC / UIL. SPC already sanctions it, UIL schools could create their own league to mirror rules and alignment, TAPPS is about to have enough teams to sponsor it as well. Perhaps opportunity to win a league state championship would spur growth. IH AUSTIN top 10 breakdown: UIL(7): WL, DJ, TWHS, HP, Coppell, Rockwall, Memorial; SPC (3) ESD, SMTX, St J. So if you actually look at it the SPC / Tapps schools are not taking over and have only 1 in the top 5. But I think the growth would come from the Publics and TAPPS schools as SPC doesnt represent any growth opportunity.

I think your point is well taken in the programs where you have multiple school on one team. ? would splitting them up drive growth or would the split up teams dry up? I think based Colleyville example giving the teams the right to split if they want to at least seems the most fair. If Grapevine thinks they can support a team let them go...

[LaxCoachCos]

Boy do I want to get into this conversation. Completely agree Laxman.

There has to be changes. Some programs like the one you mentioned have been "Siloing" and are only focused on growing vertically. They only want the sport to grow in their area as long as it is within their walls. Otherwise they would start to lose control (or money).

We need to see horizontal growth in the sport in Texas, which means actually enforcing that teams be "single school based" as the THSLL claims they want. There is no reason that there shouldn't be multiple teams in a school district that has 9-10 High Schools.

Another point I would like to discuss is the allowing of programs to be in both Divisions. Teams should be allowed a Varsity team, then JV or freshmen teams below that. You don't see 6A JV football teams competing as Varsity programs in 3A. We're lucky that there are only 4 programs competing at both.

For example, if Dallas Jesuit wanted to make one of their JV teams a D2 varsity I'm pretty positive they would be in the D2 Final Four every year. Luckily they don't do that. If you look at the HP rosters, their JV and D2 rosters are exactly the same. Many D1 JV teams could beat many of the D2 Varsity teams. That's just the reality of it, but I really don't think it's good for the sport to let those programs compete for Championships in both divisions.

If anything they should have a D1 team, a D1 JV team (or multiple), and then a D3 (developmental/freshman) team.

Interested what you guys think about that. No other state with legitimate lacrosse league allows these types of issues to happen.

Also, the Grapevine Varsity team is 6-1, and is traveling to Arkansas to play games next weekend. Been extremely tough getting games when they are not allowed to play anyone in the THSLL. Players have quit because of all of the travel. Still at around 30-35 players between JV and Varsity. Unfortunately the JV have only gotten to play 3 full games so far, because of not being able to play local teams.

[LaxCoachCos]

Also, wondering what you guys think about the same person being the Head Coach for 2 different teams in the THSLL.

There is no rule against it, but interested in your thoughts.

[ghostofstblax]

LaxCoachCos - I completely agree with you on the multi HS teams hindering growth and the multiple Varsity teams. SPC doesn't have multiple Varisty teams and the UIL doesn't allow it but we do??? I am pretty sure the Allen Varsity FBall team could win 2A/3A title. Not sure what to think about the same coach over two teams. Can't imagine it could happen much.

[laxman]

Coaching two teams would be a complete conflict of interest.

With having two teams in your HS I do not know how I feel. Maybe they play in their own division?
I do believe that separating the publics and privates. This will help public schools be more successful and then help at the youth level.

[LaxCoachCos]

Might want to look at who the head coach is for Colleyville and for Fort Worth Country Day..... Tired of all of this being ignored or swept under the rug

[laxman]

That doesnt make sense.
Why would THSLL think that is ok?
Why does Dennington thin that is ok?
How does FWCD and Colleyville think that is ok?


So I looked at the North Standings.
If it was just public schools...how good would the playoffs be?
Rockwall, West, Allen, HP,Frisco, FM, Coppel, SL.

With just these eight any team can beat anyone any given night.

[ghostofstblax]

From the Publics I think you need to include Dallas J - they are a private school, but play in UIL by UIL rules. Would think if they can be in a district with Allen, Plano W, and Prosper in FB, Basketball, Baseball etc certainly they should be able to play in same lax district... But yes playoffs with these 9 would be good - Coppell gave Dallas J all they wanted a couple of weeks ago. I do think there is a Top five: HP, Coppell, Rockwall, Dallas J, SL and then a drop off to Frisco, Allen, Plano W.

[ghostofstblax]

As far as FWCD / Colleyville -perhaps he thinks since they are in different divisions its ok? I agree its ripe with conflict of interest...

[LaxCoachCos]

I think the first thing we have to do is look at it from the whole state's perspective. The groups and coaches from the other regions already think everything is biased towards the North, and with how many of these programs "get around" the rules, they have good reason to be.

In Texas there are 30 Private School based HS programs. If we split off all of the private schools, you would have to have two divisions. This seems like the logical split.

Division 1 Private: Division 2 Private:
St. Mark's NORTH CENTRAL SOUTH
Jesuit Cumberland Gateway St. Thomas
ESD Parish Episcopal Regents Awty International
Episcopal School of Houston Greenhill St. Andrews Concordia Lutheran
St. Johns Prestonwood Christian St. Stephens St. Pius X
Houston Christian Bishop Lynch St. Michaels Emery/Weiner
Kinkaid School JP II Central Catholic The Village School
Houston Strake Jesuit Trinity Valley St. Mary's Hall
FWCD TMI

If this happened, then the Public School League would look something like this:
Division 1 North Public: Divison 1 Central Public: Division 1 South Public:
Allen Anderson Friendswood
HP Austin Kingwood
Plano West Dripping Springs Memorial
Southlake Lake Travis Bridgeland
Frisco Round Rock Seven lakes
Mckinney Vandegrift Woodlands
Rockwall Westlake
Coppell
Flower Mound

Division 2 North Public: Division 2 Central Public: Division 2 SA Public: Divison 2 South Public:
WEST WEST Alamo Heights EAST
Denton Vista Ridge Boerne Atascocita
Fort Worth Rouse Reagan Clear Springs
Keller Cedar Park Smithson Valley Klein
Grapevine Westwood Canyon Lamar
Colleyville Mcneil Harlan Pearland
Hebron Ridge Point
Bellaire
EAST EAST
Lovejoy Georgetown WEST
Plano Cedar Ridge Cy Woods
Plano East Bowie Katy
Prosper Mccallum Langham Creek
Bridge Magnolia
Stratford
Travis
George Ranch
Westside

This would make things pretty clear cut. It would eliminate public school teams having their players recruited to private schools, and then having to turn around and play against them. I know Jesuit plays UIL in athletics, but they have to compete at the highest level (6A) to do so. Unfortunately, there aren't enough programs in Texas yet to be able to split them up into many divisions. You're not fixing the "recruiting problem" by allowing them to play in the Public school Lacrosse league.

I think this is a pretty solid option. It gets rid of the D3 division which I think is a good thing. If a new team wants to come in as a developmental team, then they can play as a JV. This would mean they would have to recruit underclassmen, since Seniors aren't allowed to play JV, which will be better for the growth and longevity of their programs.

Also, in this model, if we force teams to pull from only one school, it wouldn't have to change very much. You would probably end up dropping the multiple teams that could be formed in Frisco, Mckinney, and Flower Mound down to D2 in the North.

All, or almost all, of the Central programs are already in line with the "single school-based" model. I believe a lot of the schools in the South are as well. Here in the North is where the majority of the teams pulling from multiple schools are based.

I think by switching to something like this Public/Private School Split and forcing schools to abide by the "single school-based" model will be best for the Lacrosse in the State long term. It gets rid of two of the major problems many coaches and program heads have with the current set up throughout the state, and it opens the door for more high schools to add teams to the fold. Some programs may take a hit in the short-term, but it will set us up to look more like a UIL sport, which will play a huge roll if lacrosse is to ever become sanctioned.

What do you all think?

[laxman]

I really like that concept.

I also agree that Jesuit, even though they are UIL, they recruit.
Public schools cannot. Enough said.

Also the South and Central seem to be doing the right thing with trying the one program school

the north still isn't doing a good job at that. Now I will say the Central and Houston seems to have better school support than some of the North schools. Most are practicing at parks and playing games at Middle schools. None the less, if the other districts feel this way they out number the North. Why dont they put these rules in place. Like I said on an earlier post. Why doesnt the Public put it to a vote to split. This would grow the game.

[LaxCoachCos]

Sorry that the formatting on post didn't work. Going to try and re do it.

[HooDat]

Back east, they have mulitple prep league and public leagues (public based on size). The teams will schedule each other, but they are non-league games. You have to have numbers to make that work. I think Texas is there - perhaps not on the multiple public leagues front).

What I really don't understand is the multi-high school teams putting out a D1 and D2 team. Those teams should obviously be split by school or something. If TAPPS gets the numbers, the idea of a SPC, TAPPS, and Publics leagues. If you want to, you could crate a "tournament of champions" that took the winner of each league (plus a rotating at-large) and play a quick four-handed tournament. But it seems to me that Texas lacrosse is approaching the point where we are mature enough to have these size appropriate leagues.

[laxman]

With new leadership in THSLL and you know there will be more changes, I wonder if anything will actually happen.