you must be new here. we make calls to blow up the system every year.bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:08 am One year. ONE YEAR, things go not exactly as SOME PEOPLE expected, and the calls are to blow up the system.
C'mon.
"Despite the best that has been done by everyone the... situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage..."
2022 D1 Selection Committee
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:34 amyou must be new here. we make calls to blow up the system every year.bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:08 am One year. ONE YEAR, things go not exactly as SOME PEOPLE expected, and the calls are to blow up the system.
C'mon.
"Despite the best that has been done by everyone the... situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage..."
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Not true, only year I wanted it blown up was 2019, this year, I LOVE this system.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 9:34 amyou must be new here. we make calls to blow up the system every year.bearlaxfan wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:08 am One year. ONE YEAR, things go not exactly as SOME PEOPLE expected, and the calls are to blow up the system.
C'mon.
"Despite the best that has been done by everyone the... situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage..."
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
nobody's rpi is grossly inflated. it is exactly what the numbers say it is. it is my opinion that opinions on an individual team's rpi aren't credible. you can hate the metric, but if it's in use in any form it needs to be applied evenly.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 amI understand your initial point. I was purposefully pivoting to ask about Duke.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 amif i was appointed to the committee and given:
-- zero power? yes, duke would be in on my vote. last 3 normal years my cohorts went straight rpi, and coaches should have known what gets in.
-- the opportunity to change some things? like tell coaches and media, fans preseason how we were running things this year as an example... then it'd come down to what we decided to do for selection. a group effort.
ftr, i wasn't commenting in previous post on duke getting in. bit on nd's duke wins.
I find that position interesting. I would argue the committee got it 100% correct re: Duke; their RPI was grossly inflated (as I have suggested elsewhere). Also, the last 3 years committee went straight RPI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that straight RPI was the only criteria they were using (and I especially remember them introducing additional criteria when attempting to justify the snub of Cornell in favor of a weak JHU team that barely had a .500 record).
In other words, those last 3 years, the selections may have followed straight RPI, but that doesn't mean straight RPI was the only criteria they used.
(And before you say it's ludicrous to assert that the committee just "happened" to follow RPI for 8 selections, 3 years in row: ultimately, the committee is selecting between a small handful of teams to the last 1 or two slots. That the selections for those 1 or 2 slots happened to follwo RPI is not that surprising. It's one of the criteria, but not the only criteria)
when we start going off the reservation, it's anarchy. dogs and cats living together. you don't have to go more than 1 degree of separation. duke. they're out because of too many bad losses. why are they bad losses?
i fully understand your points about straight rpi maybe not being the measuring stick. here is what 2019 chairman jack hayes said about their process:
"we put the top 8 rpi at larges on the board, and then we checked to see if there were any outliers." paraphrasing.
this wasn't a scramble to explain which criteria were important after the fact. this was a window into their process. and when you run the process that way, barring some crazy other factors, the top rpi teams get in.
ftr, straight rpi is not a criterion in the rules. unless it is.
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
What does he mean by outliers?wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:21 amnobody's rpi is grossly inflated. it is exactly what the numbers say it is. it is my opinion that opinions on an individual team's rpi aren't credible. you can hate the metric, but if it's in use in any form it needs to be applied evenly.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 amI understand your initial point. I was purposefully pivoting to ask about Duke.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 amif i was appointed to the committee and given:
-- zero power? yes, duke would be in on my vote. last 3 normal years my cohorts went straight rpi, and coaches should have known what gets in.
-- the opportunity to change some things? like tell coaches and media, fans preseason how we were running things this year as an example... then it'd come down to what we decided to do for selection. a group effort.
ftr, i wasn't commenting in previous post on duke getting in. bit on nd's duke wins.
I find that position interesting. I would argue the committee got it 100% correct re: Duke; their RPI was grossly inflated (as I have suggested elsewhere). Also, the last 3 years committee went straight RPI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that straight RPI was the only criteria they were using (and I especially remember them introducing additional criteria when attempting to justify the snub of Cornell in favor of a weak JHU team that barely had a .500 record).
In other words, those last 3 years, the selections may have followed straight RPI, but that doesn't mean straight RPI was the only criteria they used.
(And before you say it's ludicrous to assert that the committee just "happened" to follow RPI for 8 selections, 3 years in row: ultimately, the committee is selecting between a small handful of teams to the last 1 or two slots. That the selections for those 1 or 2 slots happened to follwo RPI is not that surprising. It's one of the criteria, but not the only criteria)
when we start going off the reservation, it's anarchy. dogs and cats living together. you don't have to go more than 1 degree of separation. duke. they're out because of too many bad losses. why are they bad losses?
i fully understand your points about straight rpi maybe not being the measuring stick. here is what 2019 chairman jack hayes said about their process:
"we put the top 8 rpi at larges on the board, and then we checked to see if there were any outliers." paraphrasing.
this wasn't a scramble to explain which criteria were important after the fact. this was a window into their process. and when you run the process that way, barring some crazy other factors, the top rpi teams get in.
ftr, straight rpi is not a criterion in the rules. unless it is.
“I wish you would!”
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
probably teams outside that group that had great other numbers. or within the group that had poor other numbers.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:26 amWhat does he mean by outliers?wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:21 amnobody's rpi is grossly inflated. it is exactly what the numbers say it is. it is my opinion that opinions on an individual team's rpi aren't credible. you can hate the metric, but if it's in use in any form it needs to be applied evenly.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 amI understand your initial point. I was purposefully pivoting to ask about Duke.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 amif i was appointed to the committee and given:
-- zero power? yes, duke would be in on my vote. last 3 normal years my cohorts went straight rpi, and coaches should have known what gets in.
-- the opportunity to change some things? like tell coaches and media, fans preseason how we were running things this year as an example... then it'd come down to what we decided to do for selection. a group effort.
ftr, i wasn't commenting in previous post on duke getting in. bit on nd's duke wins.
I find that position interesting. I would argue the committee got it 100% correct re: Duke; their RPI was grossly inflated (as I have suggested elsewhere). Also, the last 3 years committee went straight RPI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that straight RPI was the only criteria they were using (and I especially remember them introducing additional criteria when attempting to justify the snub of Cornell in favor of a weak JHU team that barely had a .500 record).
In other words, those last 3 years, the selections may have followed straight RPI, but that doesn't mean straight RPI was the only criteria they used.
(And before you say it's ludicrous to assert that the committee just "happened" to follow RPI for 8 selections, 3 years in row: ultimately, the committee is selecting between a small handful of teams to the last 1 or two slots. That the selections for those 1 or 2 slots happened to follwo RPI is not that surprising. It's one of the criteria, but not the only criteria)
when we start going off the reservation, it's anarchy. dogs and cats living together. you don't have to go more than 1 degree of separation. duke. they're out because of too many bad losses. why are they bad losses?
i fully understand your points about straight rpi maybe not being the measuring stick. here is what 2019 chairman jack hayes said about their process:
"we put the top 8 rpi at larges on the board, and then we checked to see if there were any outliers." paraphrasing.
this wasn't a scramble to explain which criteria were important after the fact. this was a window into their process. and when you run the process that way, barring some crazy other factors, the top rpi teams get in.
ftr, straight rpi is not a criterion in the rules. unless it is.
i was paraphrasing. his words also might have been "if it looked right".
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Duke's RPI was grossly over-inflated vis-a-vis their accomplishments on the field.
Duke's RPI was grossly over-inflated vis-a-vis their results against other teams using RPI as a guide.
Duke's silly-high RPI was based upon playing (not necessarily beating) a bunch of teams who happened to finish with good records. Nothing more. Not necessarily good teams; just teams from lesser conferences who finished with good records.
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
“Squint” test.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:26 amWhat does he mean by outliers?wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:21 amnobody's rpi is grossly inflated. it is exactly what the numbers say it is. it is my opinion that opinions on an individual team's rpi aren't credible. you can hate the metric, but if it's in use in any form it needs to be applied evenly.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 amI understand your initial point. I was purposefully pivoting to ask about Duke.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 amif i was appointed to the committee and given:
-- zero power? yes, duke would be in on my vote. last 3 normal years my cohorts went straight rpi, and coaches should have known what gets in.
-- the opportunity to change some things? like tell coaches and media, fans preseason how we were running things this year as an example... then it'd come down to what we decided to do for selection. a group effort.
ftr, i wasn't commenting in previous post on duke getting in. bit on nd's duke wins.
I find that position interesting. I would argue the committee got it 100% correct re: Duke; their RPI was grossly inflated (as I have suggested elsewhere). Also, the last 3 years committee went straight RPI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that straight RPI was the only criteria they were using (and I especially remember them introducing additional criteria when attempting to justify the snub of Cornell in favor of a weak JHU team that barely had a .500 record).
In other words, those last 3 years, the selections may have followed straight RPI, but that doesn't mean straight RPI was the only criteria they used.
(And before you say it's ludicrous to assert that the committee just "happened" to follow RPI for 8 selections, 3 years in row: ultimately, the committee is selecting between a small handful of teams to the last 1 or two slots. That the selections for those 1 or 2 slots happened to follwo RPI is not that surprising. It's one of the criteria, but not the only criteria)
when we start going off the reservation, it's anarchy. dogs and cats living together. you don't have to go more than 1 degree of separation. duke. they're out because of too many bad losses. why are they bad losses?
i fully understand your points about straight rpi maybe not being the measuring stick. here is what 2019 chairman jack hayes said about their process:
"we put the top 8 rpi at larges on the board, and then we checked to see if there were any outliers." paraphrasing.
this wasn't a scramble to explain which criteria were important after the fact. this was a window into their process. and when you run the process that way, barring some crazy other factors, the top rpi teams get in.
ftr, straight rpi is not a criterion in the rules. unless it is.
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
that's pretty elitist of you!ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:45 amDuke's RPI was grossly over-inflated vis-a-vis their accomplishments on the field.
Duke's RPI was grossly over-inflated vis-a-vis their results against other teams using RPI as a guide.
Duke's silly-high RPI was based upon playing (not necessarily beating) a bunch of teams who happened to finish with good records. Nothing more. Not necessarily good teams; just teams from lesser conferences who finished with good records.
again, the first 2 paragraphs are your opinion.
there's some truth to the 3rd (isn't there always?), but the absoluteness is way off. one example, they had 5 top 20 wins.
in any event, my objection to running things the way they did in years like these is no one knows what matters. and in this particular year, applied unevenly. my objection in rpi years is it's a flawed metric. it's my amateur view we can find something credible that betters both.
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Outliers within the 8 or outliers outside the 8 or both? I would have asked the follow up question because it’s not clear what he means.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:42 amprobably teams outside that group that had great other numbers. or within the group that had poor other numbers.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:26 amWhat does he mean by outliers?wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 10:21 amnobody's rpi is grossly inflated. it is exactly what the numbers say it is. it is my opinion that opinions on an individual team's rpi aren't credible. you can hate the metric, but if it's in use in any form it needs to be applied evenly.ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 7:24 amI understand your initial point. I was purposefully pivoting to ask about Duke.wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:38 amif i was appointed to the committee and given:
-- zero power? yes, duke would be in on my vote. last 3 normal years my cohorts went straight rpi, and coaches should have known what gets in.
-- the opportunity to change some things? like tell coaches and media, fans preseason how we were running things this year as an example... then it'd come down to what we decided to do for selection. a group effort.
ftr, i wasn't commenting in previous post on duke getting in. bit on nd's duke wins.
I find that position interesting. I would argue the committee got it 100% correct re: Duke; their RPI was grossly inflated (as I have suggested elsewhere). Also, the last 3 years committee went straight RPI, but that doesn't necessarily mean that straight RPI was the only criteria they were using (and I especially remember them introducing additional criteria when attempting to justify the snub of Cornell in favor of a weak JHU team that barely had a .500 record).
In other words, those last 3 years, the selections may have followed straight RPI, but that doesn't mean straight RPI was the only criteria they used.
(And before you say it's ludicrous to assert that the committee just "happened" to follow RPI for 8 selections, 3 years in row: ultimately, the committee is selecting between a small handful of teams to the last 1 or two slots. That the selections for those 1 or 2 slots happened to follwo RPI is not that surprising. It's one of the criteria, but not the only criteria)
when we start going off the reservation, it's anarchy. dogs and cats living together. you don't have to go more than 1 degree of separation. duke. they're out because of too many bad losses. why are they bad losses?
i fully understand your points about straight rpi maybe not being the measuring stick. here is what 2019 chairman jack hayes said about their process:
"we put the top 8 rpi at larges on the board, and then we checked to see if there were any outliers." paraphrasing.
this wasn't a scramble to explain which criteria were important after the fact. this was a window into their process. and when you run the process that way, barring some crazy other factors, the top rpi teams get in.
ftr, straight rpi is not a criterion in the rules. unless it is.
i was paraphrasing. his words also might have been "if it looked right".
“I wish you would!”
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Best spot in town other than shortstop cafe IMO-too bad they tore it down…
https://ithacavoice.com/2021/02/demolit ... is-coming/
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
The committee changed replaced the criterion of quality wins (based on RPI) for "wins over tournament teams." Reasonable people can disagree how to apply the criteria, but inventing a new variable, especially after the season, is unconscionable.
If the RPI is open to question, then it's fair to note that the Ivy's RPI was likely inflated, too. While we're opening up the RPI, calling Jacksonville a bad loss is also problematic. So it goes when some RPI ratings are more equal than others.
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
A 12 game season is a 12 game season. It provides limited information. You can process that limited information in a consistent, well-defined way that's transparent to all, or you can leave it up to the random whims of five people that change from year to year. You make the call.Gobigred wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:56 amThat math is inadequate in a 12-game season. Want no part of it. Sorry.
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Much better when it was in the alley a long time ago. We used to go Every Friday afternoon about 4pm and they had those huge paper containers, like 64 ounces that they filled with Beer for like 3 bucks. 2 of those and I was usually passed out by 6pm, wake up about 8 and head to the Chapter house or the nines.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:24 pmBest spot in town other than shortstop cafe IMO-too bad they tore it down…
https://ithacavoice.com/2021/02/demolit ... is-coming/
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
Used to go out dancing there every Thursday night when I was an undergrad. I lived in a big house with a mix of Cornell and IC students (most of us townies) and we'd drink so much and dance so much it's a wonder I ever made Friday classes.joewillie78 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:43 pmMuch better when it was in the alley a long time ago. We used to go Every Friday afternoon about 4pm and they had those huge paper containers, like 64 ounces that they filled with Beer for like 3 bucks. 2 of those and I was usually passed out by 6pm, wake up about 8 and head to the Chapter house or the nines.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:24 pmBest spot in town other than shortstop cafe IMO-too bad they tore it down…
https://ithacavoice.com/2021/02/demolit ... is-coming/
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
I also worked at Dos Amigos, the Mexican restaurant at the entrance to the alley, for a year during my Jr. year. Best damn gringo Mexican prep cook in the entire Finger Lakes region, if I do say so myself.
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Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
DP dough at 2am…joewillie78 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:43 pmMuch better when it was in the alley a long time ago. We used to go Every Friday afternoon about 4pm and they had those huge paper containers, like 64 ounces that they filled with Beer for like 3 bucks. 2 of those and I was usually passed out by 6pm, wake up about 8 and head to the Chapter house or the nines.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:24 pmBest spot in town other than shortstop cafe IMO-too bad they tore it down…
https://ithacavoice.com/2021/02/demolit ... is-coming/
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
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- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:53 am
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
I recall Dos Amigos. Now that I’ve sold my mothers house, live down south and cut most tied to upstate I think I miss Ithaca more than my hometown (Binghamton) or even Geneva. Even if Hobart > IC. What’s happened in football last two years will be reversed-you guys got lucky Covid gave you back to back home games .ICGrad wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:52 pmUsed to go out dancing there every Thursday night when I was an undergrad. I lived in a big house with a mix of Cornell and IC students (most of us townies) and we'd drink so much and dance so much it's a wonder I ever made Friday classes.joewillie78 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:43 pmMuch better when it was in the alley a long time ago. We used to go Every Friday afternoon about 4pm and they had those huge paper containers, like 64 ounces that they filled with Beer for like 3 bucks. 2 of those and I was usually passed out by 6pm, wake up about 8 and head to the Chapter house or the nines.Farfromgeneva wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:24 pmBest spot in town other than shortstop cafe IMO-too bad they tore it down…
https://ithacavoice.com/2021/02/demolit ... is-coming/
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78
I also worked at Dos Amigos, the Mexican restaurant at the entrance to the alley, for a year during my Jr. year. Best damn gringo Mexican prep cook in the entire Finger Lakes region, if I do say so myself.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: 2022 D1 Selection Committee
I did. Using an algorithm as flawed as RPI is in general, and then exacerbating the situation by having some teams playing as few as twelve games, is simply a stupid idea. I'm sure you, of all people, understand the issues with RPI. I'm not a fan of Pairwise, either, an absurdly convoluted system in its explanation that in practice turns out to be warmed over RPI year after year.CU77 wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 12:43 pmA 12 game season is a 12 game season. It provides limited information. You can process that limited information in a consistent, well-defined way that's transparent to all, or you can leave it up to the random whims of five people that change from year to year. You make the call.Gobigred wrote: ↑Wed May 11, 2022 6:56 amThat math is inadequate in a 12-game season. Want no part of it. Sorry.