2022 D1 Selection Committee

[Can Opener]

With so much attention paid to the ACC’s tournament fate, I haven’t seen anyone comment on the worst tournament seedings in decades for the state of Maryland. In a typical year, 3-4 teams are dancing. Only the Terps earned an NCAA berth in 2022. Here is how the rest of the D1 colleges from the Old Line State fared this season:

UMBC 6-7
Towson 7-9
Loyola 8-8
Hopkins 7-9
Mount St. Mary’s 5-10
Navy 9-6 (Maybe the second best team in the state this year, but only 3 wins against teams with a winning record)
Combined: 42-49

The times they are a-changin’. As for Maryland, they are winning without the benefit of home cooking on their roster. Of their top 7 point leaders, only one is from Maryland and he began his career at Syracuse. Their top players at D, FO and G all hail from out of state. Not trying to taunt or bait anyone, but I just thought the data was interesting.

[ICGrad]

It is hilarious and satisfying to see the same group of posters who defended teams like JHU getting in the tourney in the past with 8-6 records because of RPI and SOS and good losses etc now complaining when the same criteria benefiting another conference. Karma is a b*itch sometimes.

For years, the ACC teams fed off intra conference games building up RPIs. For years, the ACC tournament raised those RPIs and played into the selection criteria. That is why other conferences added post season tourneys - to compete with the monopoly on NCAA at large selections the ACC had built.

In past years, the ACC/JHU crowd told the fans of those schools on the wrong side of the bubble to play a tougher schedule, that wins against low rated teams mean nothing, that head to head was not important, that late season surges mean nothing, that the eye test meant less than the "criteria"

Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC.

I hope this brings about some changes. For example, as some have mentioned, more OOC games in locations outside of the ACC/Baltimore region. Until then, you'll just have to live with the results that came from the rule book you wrote. It backfired on the ACC - for once - in 2022 and the whining is incessant. It is not flattering for those that are whining. In the past, you told us to shut up. Maybe it's time to listen to your own advice from past years.

This is an excellent post.

[Farfromgeneva]

Woodruff and company are absolutely ridiculous, and most of them have no business being on that committee. "Data" without actual interpretation is why higher education is such a absolutely disaster and Woodruff epitomizes that thoughtlessness to a perfection while chairing this committee.

Breschi, wow, very, very disappointed in him. Weird year. Not much to like about 2022's Tarheels and then add to to the equation.

I agree with Typical Lax Dad, give it to ESPN and PLL guys. Though they can be impossible to listen to, at least they know how to watch a game and they understand competition and aesthetics.

What a joke.

I was joking.

I'm not. Higher ed administrators are clueless about most things. This needs to change. It's about entertainment, so bring entertainers into the discussion.

Yeah!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EKJ0I7wg6uk

[nyjay]

It is hilarious and satisfying to see the same group of posters who defended teams like JHU getting in the tourney in the past with 8-6 records because of RPI and SOS and good losses etc now complaining when the same criteria benefiting another conference. Karma is a b*itch sometimes.

For years, the ACC teams fed off intra conference games building up RPIs. For years, the ACC tournament raised those RPIs and played into the selection criteria. That is why other conferences added post season tourneys - to compete with the monopoly on NCAA at large selections the ACC had built.

In past years, the ACC/JHU crowd told the fans of those schools on the wrong side of the bubble to play a tougher schedule, that wins against low rated teams mean nothing, that head to head was not important, that late season surges mean nothing, that the eye test meant less than the "criteria"

Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC.

I hope this brings about some changes. For example, as some have mentioned, more OOC games in locations outside of the ACC/Baltimore region. Until then, you'll just have to live with the results that came from the rule book you wrote. It backfired on the ACC - for once - in 2022 and the whining is incessant. It is not flattering for those that are whining. In the past, you told us to shut up. Maybe it's time to listen to your own advice from past years.

This is an excellent post.

+1. Seems to me that this is exactly what happened. The big OOC wins for the Ivies compound in conference play.

[Farfromgeneva]

2 things can be true:
1. Notre Dame could likely beat anyone in the field this weekend
2. Notre Dame didn’t do enough to earn a tournament invite—they are 0-4 against teams that made the cut. One win against those and they’re in.

ND, and Duke, have no one to blame but themselves. In ND's case, sure they finished well. But they started terribly for almost half the season.

It will be interesting to see how some of the Acc teams schedule moving forward. Not all, but some beating up on regional mid majors, for the most part, and counting on the Acc portion of their schedules to put them in tournament doesn't seem like a great strategy moving forward. They are going to have to travel to places perhaps they traditionally haven't.

But those years that Rutgers was left out there was no one to blame but the committee right?

As Rutgers was flippantly told by people like Quint and Anish specifically (and some on this board), too bad. Your RPI was too low. Having beaten Hopkins twice who made the tournament or number 2 OSU in the last game of the season while going to an OT game with number 1 Maryland was passing an eye test, but that doesn't matter. That's what they said then.

Now they have a huge problem and want an eye test. Comical to say the least.

Let's be specific about what "eye test" means here, too. If you read Patrick Stevens's article this morning, he interviewed Lars Tiffany, who said that a subjective, human element needs to be put back into the selection process. As if what the committee did last night didn't include that. They literally DIDN'T follow the RPI as an inclusion criterion. They used it as a comparative criterion for wins and losses. What is really meant by most of these people by "eye test" is actually "name on the front of the jersey." I'd at least respect it more if they just came out and said it. There are several teams over the years that have been excluded by the RPI, and the ACC people didn't cry for them. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS?!!! That's what you're hearing now. Since it didn't happen to them for years, they didn't think it existed. Now that it's happened to them, they're demanding change.

Kevin Corrigan shouldn't be mad at the selection committee. He should be mad at Syracuse and Duke. Duke has to stop dropping early season games the way they do to lesser teams. Anish, Quint, and Carc need to stop telling the same story about "Duke gets better as the season goes....Dino is all about learning...you don't want to play them in May." I think Dino and his team did learn something this year. Stop losing to mid-majors when you have one of the most talented rosters in the nation.

And if anyone can figure out what's going on at Syracuse, god bless them.

But that's who cost Corrigan's Irish a bid. Duke and Cuse devalued Notre Dame's wins. And obviously, if ND wins one of those early games, they're getting ready to play next weekend. IMO, they clearly deserve to be in over Harvard.

It's also funny that no one is crying for Duke. Had they not imploded in the 2nd half on Saturday, they'd be getting ready to host a first round game. For those who think the committee didn't watch games (as Anish said on Twitter), I bet they watched that ND-Duke game and immediately removed Duke from consideration. That vomitous second half showed they didn't belong.

Maybe an old spiteful egyptian god?

[1766]

2 things can be true:
1. Notre Dame could likely beat anyone in the field this weekend
2. Notre Dame didn’t do enough to earn a tournament invite—they are 0-4 against teams that made the cut. One win against those and they’re in.

ND, and Duke, have no one to blame but themselves. In ND's case, sure they finished well. But they started terribly for almost half the season.

It will be interesting to see how some of the Acc teams schedule moving forward. Not all, but some beating up on regional mid majors, for the most part, and counting on the Acc portion of their schedules to put them in tournament doesn't seem like a great strategy moving forward. They are going to have to travel to places perhaps they traditionally haven't.

But those years that Rutgers was left out there was no one to blame but the committee right?

As Rutgers was flippantly told by people like Quint and Anish specifically (and some on this board), too bad. Your RPI was too low. Having beaten Hopkins twice who made the tournament or number 2 OSU in the last game of the season while going to an OT game with number 1 Maryland was passing an eye test, but that doesn't matter. That's what they said then.

Now they have a huge problem and want an eye test. Comical to say the least.

Let's be specific about what "eye test" means here, too. If you read Patrick Stevens's article this morning, he interviewed Lars Tiffany, who said that a subjective, human element needs to be put back into the selection process. As if what the committee did last night didn't include that. They literally DIDN'T follow the RPI as an inclusion criterion. They used it as a comparative criterion for wins and losses. What is really meant by most of these people by "eye test" is actually "name on the front of the jersey." I'd at least respect it more if they just came out and said it. There are several teams over the years that have been excluded by the RPI, and the ACC people didn't cry for them. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS?!!! That's what you're hearing now. Since it didn't happen to them for years, they didn't think it existed. Now that it's happened to them, they're demanding change.

Kevin Corrigan shouldn't be mad at the selection committee. He should be mad at Syracuse and Duke. Duke has to stop dropping early season games the way they do to lesser teams. Anish, Quint, and Carc need to stop telling the same story about "Duke gets better as the season goes....Dino is all about learning...you don't want to play them in May." I think Dino and his team did learn something this year. Stop losing to mid-majors when you have one of the most talented rosters in the nation.

And if anyone can figure out what's going on at Syracuse, god bless them.

But that's who cost Corrigan's Irish a bid. Duke and Cuse devalued Notre Dame's wins. And obviously, if ND wins one of those early games, they're getting ready to play next weekend. IMO, they clearly deserve to be in over Harvard.

It's also funny that no one is crying for Duke. Had they not imploded in the 2nd half on Saturday, they'd be getting ready to host a first round game. For those who think the committee didn't watch games (as Anish said on Twitter), I bet they watched that ND-Duke game and immediately removed Duke from consideration. That vomitous second half showed they didn't belong.

The Acc teams killed themselves. They were banking on the usual RPI bump they get from playing each other. Hence what was essentially a round robin format. Instead, the OOC losses devalued their wins and playing most of the teams twice compounded the problem even more.

They should have scheduled more OOC games against B1G and Ivy teams. They sure had their chance to and declined. The Ivy Acc'd the Acc this year. Simple as that.

If I was in charge of Acc lacrosse, I'd get another associate member ASAP and get an AQ and have a tournament. I'd ditch the round robin scheduling and add more OOC games. That's going to require more traveling though, especially up north in colder weather.

[1766]

2 things can be true:
1. Notre Dame could likely beat anyone in the field this weekend
2. Notre Dame didn’t do enough to earn a tournament invite—they are 0-4 against teams that made the cut. One win against those and they’re in.

ND, and Duke, have no one to blame but themselves. In ND's case, sure they finished well. But they started terribly for almost half the season.

It will be interesting to see how some of the Acc teams schedule moving forward. Not all, but some beating up on regional mid majors, for the most part, and counting on the Acc portion of their schedules to put them in tournament doesn't seem like a great strategy moving forward. They are going to have to travel to places perhaps they traditionally haven't.

But those years that Rutgers was left out there was no one to blame but the committee right?

As Rutgers was flippantly told by people like Quint and Anish specifically (and some on this board), too bad. Your RPI was too low. Having beaten Hopkins twice who made the tournament or number 2 OSU in the last game of the season while going to an OT game with number 1 Maryland was passing an eye test, but that doesn't matter. That's what they said then.

Now they have a huge problem and want an eye test. Comical to say the least.

Let's be specific about what "eye test" means here, too. If you read Patrick Stevens's article this morning, he interviewed Lars Tiffany, who said that a subjective, human element needs to be put back into the selection process. As if what the committee did last night didn't include that. They literally DIDN'T follow the RPI as an inclusion criterion. They used it as a comparative criterion for wins and losses. What is really meant by most of these people by "eye test" is actually "name on the front of the jersey." I'd at least respect it more if they just came out and said it. There are several teams over the years that have been excluded by the RPI, and the ACC people didn't cry for them. WHAT ABOUT THE KIDS?!!! That's what you're hearing now. Since it didn't happen to them for years, they didn't think it existed. Now that it's happened to them, they're demanding change.

Kevin Corrigan shouldn't be mad at the selection committee. He should be mad at Syracuse and Duke. Duke has to stop dropping early season games the way they do to lesser teams. Anish, Quint, and Carc need to stop telling the same story about "Duke gets better as the season goes....Dino is all about learning...you don't want to play them in May." I think Dino and his team did learn something this year. Stop losing to mid-majors when you have one of the most talented rosters in the nation.

And if anyone can figure out what's going on at Syracuse, god bless them.

But that's who cost Corrigan's Irish a bid. Duke and Cuse devalued Notre Dame's wins. And obviously, if ND wins one of those early games, they're getting ready to play next weekend. IMO, they clearly deserve to be in over Harvard.

It's also funny that no one is crying for Duke. Had they not imploded in the 2nd half on Saturday, they'd be getting ready to host a first round game. For those who think the committee didn't watch games (as Anish said on Twitter), I bet they watched that ND-Duke game and immediately removed Duke from consideration. That vomitous second half showed they didn't belong.

The Acc teams killed themselves. They were banking on the usual RPI bump they get from playing each other. Hence what was essentially a round robin format. Instead, the OOC losses devalued their wins and playing most of the teams twice compounded the problem even more.

They should have scheduled more OOC games against B1G and Ivy teams. They sure had their chance to and declined. The Ivy Acc'd the Acc this year. Simple as that.

If I was in charge of Acc lacrosse, I'd get another associate member ASAP and get an AQ and have a tournament. I'd ditch the round robin scheduling and add more OOC games. That's going to require more traveling though, especially up north in colder weather.

[Maverick]

Watching many games this year I would agree that ND is a top team and I would have put them in over Harvard and TOSU. But if I look only at data (which I think is the more fair view) I do understand the logic. But even with that I would have likely put ND in over Harvard. I think the seedlings and 5 ivy teams make sense based on 2022 resumes. The vast majority of those polling on fanlax would have left Duke out so I don’t think this is controversial at all.

This is a wake up call for the ACC, the luxury of requiring teams to come to them is over. Get on a bus and travel north in February and March and play in something other than the climate controlled Carrier Dome (or live with the consequences).

Wow, can you imagine those warm weather teams like Duke, NC , UVA coming to Schoellkopf in late Feb. Early March when the windchills are in the Teens, it's snowing ,and your sweat is forming icecles on your nose (and that's just us crazy fans)?
Love to see it.
By the way, the last time UVA came to the Kopf as #1 or 2, Cornell waxed them I believe about 14-11, and the weather was great that day.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

3 points is not a waxing sir. Unless we are talking soccer

[calourie]

To paraphrase Maryland coach John Tillman when he decided to terminate the early season rivalry his Terps had recently with Yale: " Why would we want to go up to New Haven in February every other year to freeze our butts off and take a beating?" Sound reasoning to my way of thinking.

[1766]

It is hilarious and satisfying to see the same group of posters who defended teams like JHU getting in the tourney in the past with 8-6 records because of RPI and SOS and good losses etc now complaining when the same criteria benefiting another conference. Karma is a b*itch sometimes.

For years, the ACC teams fed off intra conference games building up RPIs. For years, the ACC tournament raised those RPIs and played into the selection criteria. That is why other conferences added post season tourneys - to compete with the monopoly on NCAA at large selections the ACC had built.

In past years, the ACC/JHU crowd told the fans of those schools on the wrong side of the bubble to play a tougher schedule, that wins against low rated teams mean nothing, that head to head was not important, that late season surges mean nothing, that the eye test meant less than the "criteria"

Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC.

I hope this brings about some changes. For example, as some have mentioned, more OOC games in locations outside of the ACC/Baltimore region. Until then, you'll just have to live with the results that came from the rule book you wrote. It backfired on the ACC - for once - in 2022 and the whining is incessant. It is not flattering for those that are whining. In the past, you told us to shut up. Maybe it's time to listen to your own advice from past years.

This is an exceptional post.

[Ezra White]

It is hilarious and satisfying to see the same group of posters who defended teams like JHU getting in the tourney in the past with 8-6 records because of RPI and SOS and good losses etc now complaining when the same criteria benefiting another conference. Karma is a b*itch sometimes.

For years, the ACC teams fed off intra conference games building up RPIs. For years, the ACC tournament raised those RPIs and played into the selection criteria. That is why other conferences added post season tourneys - to compete with the monopoly on NCAA at large selections the ACC had built.

In past years, the ACC/JHU crowd told the fans of those schools on the wrong side of the bubble to play a tougher schedule, that wins against low rated teams mean nothing, that head to head was not important, that late season surges mean nothing, that the eye test meant less than the "criteria"

Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC.

I hope this brings about some changes. For example, as some have mentioned, more OOC games in locations outside of the ACC/Baltimore region. Until then, you'll just have to live with the results that came from the rule book you wrote. It backfired on the ACC - for once - in 2022 and the whining is incessant. It is not flattering for those that are whining. In the past, you told us to shut up. Maybe it's time to listen to your own advice from past years.

This is an exceptional post.

I see a consensus taking shape: the ACC just has to get out more.

This will be interesting in future years, because it’s a readily observable path to recovery. We shall see.

[1766]

It is hilarious and satisfying to see the same group of posters who defended teams like JHU getting in the tourney in the past with 8-6 records because of RPI and SOS and good losses etc now complaining when the same criteria benefiting another conference. Karma is a b*itch sometimes.

For years, the ACC teams fed off intra conference games building up RPIs. For years, the ACC tournament raised those RPIs and played into the selection criteria. That is why other conferences added post season tourneys - to compete with the monopoly on NCAA at large selections the ACC had built.

In past years, the ACC/JHU crowd told the fans of those schools on the wrong side of the bubble to play a tougher schedule, that wins against low rated teams mean nothing, that head to head was not important, that late season surges mean nothing, that the eye test meant less than the "criteria"

Now you know how it feels to be on the wrong side of the rules of the game created by ACC.

I hope this brings about some changes. For example, as some have mentioned, more OOC games in locations outside of the ACC/Baltimore region. Until then, you'll just have to live with the results that came from the rule book you wrote. It backfired on the ACC - for once - in 2022 and the whining is incessant. It is not flattering for those that are whining. In the past, you told us to shut up. Maybe it's time to listen to your own advice from past years.

This is an exceptional post.

I see a consensus taking shape: the ACC just has to get out more.

This will be interesting in future years, because it’s a readily observable path to recovery. We shall see.

I can tell you that Rutgers offered every Acc team a home and home. This was after Syracuse dropped the game. All said no.

Think that wouldn't have helped one of them? And no, a series all at their place wasn't happening. Sorry.

[joewillie78]

Watching many games this year I would agree that ND is a top team and I would have put them in over Harvard and TOSU. But if I look only at data (which I think is the more fair view) I do understand the logic. But even with that I would have likely put ND in over Harvard. I think the seedlings and 5 ivy teams make sense based on 2022 resumes. The vast majority of those polling on fanlax would have left Duke out so I don’t think this is controversial at all.

This is a wake up call for the ACC, the luxury of requiring teams to come to them is over. Get on a bus and travel north in February and March and play in something other than the climate controlled Carrier Dome (or live with the consequences).

Wow, can you imagine those warm weather teams like Duke, NC , UVA coming to Schoellkopf in late Feb. Early March when the windchills are in the Teens, it's snowing ,and your sweat is forming icecles on your nose (and that's just us crazy fans)?
Love to see it.
By the way, the last time UVA came to the Kopf as #1 or 2, Cornell waxed them I believe about 14-11, and the weather was great that day.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

3 points is not a waxing sir. Unless we are talking soccer

I stand corrected. Sorry for the Hyperbole.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

[HooDat]

ACC guy here - the only team that got hosed was Army.... Jacksonville has a small right to grumble. The beneficiary of their rear-ending was Harvard.

The fact that Duke was even in the discussion is a joke. ND' strongest win was over Duke (see joke).

Duke's lone signature win over UVA was not enough to make up for a train-wreck of a season by Danowski/Caputo standards.

I don't understand these people who say the ACC needs a tournament. Is it because you think ND would have won it and gotten in? This year the ACC deserved ONE bid and they got ONE bid. If there was an ACC tournament and UVA lost - their season would have been over.

[1766]

ACC guy here - the only team that got hosed was Army.... Jacksonville has a small right to grumble. The beneficiary of their rear-ending was Harvard.

The fact that Duke was even in the discussion is a joke. ND' strongest win was over Duke (see joke).

Duke's lone signature win over UVA was not enough to make up for a train-wreck of a season by Danowski/Caputo standards.

I don't understand these people who say the ACC needs a tournament. Is it because you think ND would have won it and gotten in? This year the ACC deserved ONE bid and they got ONE bid. If there was an ACC tournament and UVA lost - their season would have been over.

Agreed. But at least it would have given them a chance to earn their way in beyond perceived subjectivity.

It's the way of the world in college sports. Not having an AQ creates other challenges that can always be solved by just scheduling each other.

[ICGrad]

I see a consensus taking shape: the ACC just has to get out more.

This will be interesting in future years, because it’s a readily observable path to recovery. We shall see.

So the thing is, they don't.

The ACC (along with Hopkins) has perfected rigging the RPI game, and 5'll get you 10 that they go right on doing it. Oh, maybe they'll tweak the formula here and there, but throw the baby out with the bathwater? Never.

The typical ACC RPI circle-jerk was disrupted by one thing and one thing only this year: Syracuse. Syracuse lost, what, 4 OOC games? Including to Albany (?!?) (Ironically, they've been playing Albany for a decade, and played them @ Albany for the first time this season. And lost. To a pretty subpar Albany team).

Sure, Duke's OOC loses didn't help, but they always have one or two of those, and the ACC weathers the storm. But for the RPI cj to work, you can't have a team like Syracuse killing your small sample size and dragging everyone else down with them.

And even then, Duke/ND managed to have RPIs good enough to get into the tourney; the committee just looked beyond that and weighed other factors as well.

In other words, if it ain't broke...well, don't spend too much time fixing it. This year was an outlier and I imagine the ACC teams will go right on doing what they've been doing - and most years it'll go right on working. Schedule Yale in New Haven or Penn in Philly? I just don't see it.

[shaadb-man]

I love lax twitter and message boards always something new and this year it's "eye test". I like when people use something like eye test as just one side of the argument. What did your eyes tell you about Duke in the Jacksonville game or the Loyola game? What did you eyes see in the games where ND played a tourney team? Just curious

Maybe Duke will take the regular season seriously instead of these 2 game weekends and always losing a game or 2 they never should

Maybe ND will actually schedule a regualar season rather than starting almost 3 weeks late and playimg the least amount of games in college

Maybe the ACC will get it together and add a much needed team rather than leaning on playing each other getting an AQ and having a tourney

Lots of complaining and not a lot of self reflection

[joewillie78]

ACC guy here - the only team that got hosed was Army.... Jacksonville has a small right to grumble. The beneficiary of their rear-ending was Harvard.

The fact that Duke was even in the discussion is a joke. ND' strongest win was over Duke (see joke).

Duke's lone signature win over UVA was not enough to make up for a train-wreck of a season by Danowski/Caputo standards.

I don't understand these people who say the ACC needs a tournament. Is it because you think ND would have won it and gotten in? This year the ACC deserved ONE bid and they got ONE bid. If there was an ACC tournament and UVA lost - their season would have been over.

You sir just moved up on Quints "most hated" list just ahead of the Woodruff lady, and just behind joewillie78.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

[PizzaSnake]

I love lax twitter and message boards always something new and this year it's "eye test". I like when people use something like eye test as just one side of the argument. What did your eyes tell you about Duke in the Jacksonville game or the Loyola game? What did you eyes see in the games where ND played a tourney team? Just curious

Maybe Duke will take the regular season seriously instead of these 2 game weekends and always losing a game or 2 they never should

Maybe ND will actually schedule a regualar season rather than starting almost 3 weeks late and playimg the least amount of games in college

Maybe the ACC will get it together and add a much needed team rather than leaning on playing each other getting an AQ and having a tourney

Lots of complaining and not a lot of self reflection

[10stone5]

ACC guy here - the only team that got hosed was Army.... Jacksonville has a small right to grumble. The beneficiary of their rear-ending was Harvard.

The fact that Duke was even in the discussion is a joke. ND' strongest win was over Duke (see joke).

Duke's lone signature win over UVA was not enough to make up for a train-wreck of a season by Danowski/Caputo standards.

I don't understand these people who say the ACC needs a tournament. Is it because you think ND would have won it and gotten in? This year the ACC deserved ONE bid and they got ONE bid. If there was an ACC tournament and UVA lost - their season would have been over.

One interesting thing is the perspective of last year’s
Michael Sowers Duke team.
Getting to the semis last year was actually an accomplishment,
certainly relative to this year — and they played some real
thrillers also last year.
I think some saw last year’s Duke team as a disappointment
with the transfer ins of Sowers and Adler,

I’d think they’d take last year’s accomplishments this year.