2022 D1 Selection Committee

[calourie]

Tidbits from the selection show for those who couldn’t watch:
-Quint defended OSU getting in over ND, due to beating them and Harvard
-No one defended, or really even talked about, Duke.
-Carc was apoplectic over Notre Dame not making it in. Quint was upset too.
-Cotter flashed a graphic that showed the top 12 RPI teams. Next to the teams was a column labeled “In Tourney?” All yes’s except Duke and ND of course.
-Donna Woodruff, who headed the selection committee, took questions afterwards like the total pro that she is.
-On another graphic, UVa was incorrectly labeled as a 3-seed.
-Anish was relegated to facelessly reciting the number of times each seed has been upset or has reached the final four, over a montage of championship clips. He seems to be on the outs. I think Cotter threatened to beat him up if he didn’t give him his air time.

Only surprise to me was seeing Harvard get in over Notre Dame. My guess is Byrne and his Crimson will show well against Rutgers

[xxxxxxx]

Justify this all you want. This was a joke and the whole lacrosse world outside of the Ivy knows it. Maybe we can just let the RPI decide the champ from now on. No wonder this sport gets bumped by softball for TV time. Pathetic.

100%

Will always be a regional parochial sport. Princeton loses its last two games, doesn’t make their own conference tournament and is the number 2 RPI. The RPI is not an accurate tool for evaluating teams.

[rasheed]

A farce...I'd put money on the Notre Dame playing right now to beat any of the Ivy teams. Hell, I'd pick Duke to beat most of them. No disrespect, but this is comical. It's funnier than Scarface trying to do a drug deal with Kermit the Frog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FukghSV6Ct8

Gonna wager some bitcoin (fake money) in your imaginary matchups?

Gotta make the tourney first.

I suspect the committee got the idea in their head that the
ACC has been playing the RPI game too finely,

this year it bit the ACC in the butt.

. Since 2000 an ACC school has won 14 NCAA National Championships. The Ivys have won 2. Blame it on whatever you want - but the best teams are not in this year's tournament and the seedings are borderline scandalous.

[HopFan16]

What I don't get is, the straight RPI clearly didn't matter much, otherwise Duke and Notre Dame would have been in over OSU and Harvard. Certainly, Duke at #7 would be in. And yet, in her ESPN interview, the committee chair cited significant wins and losses as major determining factors. But those significant wins and losses are only made "significant" by...the RPI? So the RPI matters a lot when it's being used to decide what is a big win or loss, but not when you're using it as its own metric? Just seems a little confusing. If you're going to say RPI isn't super important then how do you know what's a good win/loss vs. a bad one? I had no dog in this fight whatsoever.

[The Orfling]

A farce...I'd put money on the Notre Dame playing right now to beat any of the Ivy teams. Hell, I'd pick Duke to beat most of them. No disrespect, but this is comical. It's funnier than Scarface trying to do a drug deal with Kermit the Frog.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FukghSV6Ct8

I was very surprised neither ND nor Duke made it. Hindsight is 20-20, and normally the ACC is so strong as a league I’m sure this isn’t a factor, but ND playing so few games (and, from a tournament selection standpoint, effectively “wasting” an out of conference slot playing Detroit Mercy) did them in. If they had played and beaten Denver, for example (either as a 13th game or replacing Detroit Mercy), I think they’d have made the tournament.

Still surprised. BUT, given how good Maryland is, I’m not sure ultimately it will make a difference.

[Farfromgeneva]

Carc is PISSSSED!

Carc can pissss up a rope…

How does that work? Are we talking a water absorbent rope? I need to understand the mechanics of this better. Is this in any way related to “throwing rope”?

[keno in reno]

Tidbits from the selection show for those who couldn’t watch:
-Quint defended OSU getting in over ND, due to beating them and Harvard
-No one defended, or really even talked about, Duke.
-Carc was apoplectic over Notre Dame not making it in. Quint was upset too.
-Cotter flashed a graphic that showed the top 12 RPI teams. Next to the teams was a column labeled “In Tourney?” All yes’s except Duke and ND of course.
-Donna Woodruff, who headed the selection committee, took questions afterwards like the total pro that she is.
-On another graphic, UVa was incorrectly labeled as a 3-seed.
-Anish was relegated to facelessly reciting the number of times each seed has been upset or has reached the final four, over a montage of championship clips. He seems to be on the outs. I think Cotter threatened to beat him up if he didn’t give him his air time.

Only surprise to me was seeing Harvard get in over Notre Dame. My guess is Byrne and his Crimson will show well against Rutgers

They won't. Its freshmen against talented veterans.

[CU77]

The RPI is not an accurate tool for evaluating teams.

Please do tell us what is. Your personal opinion?

[rolldodge]

Let’s assume the rest of the field was settled and it came down to deciding between Notre Dame and Harvard — which I would wager there is a pretty high likelihood happened.

* Both teams have 8-4 records.
* Neither team has a bad loss.
* Both teams have two top 10 RPI wins.
* Harvard has a top 5 RPI win
* Harvard has beaten 3 teams in the tournament field (Princeton, Brown, BU) including two seeded teams.
* Notre Dame has beaten none.

It’s kind of a no-brainer. What other objective criteria could you bring into it to tip the scales the other way?

[calourie]

Tidbits from the selection show for those who couldn’t watch:
-Quint defended OSU getting in over ND, due to beating them and Harvard
-No one defended, or really even talked about, Duke.
-Carc was apoplectic over Notre Dame not making it in. Quint was upset too.
-Cotter flashed a graphic that showed the top 12 RPI teams. Next to the teams was a column labeled “In Tourney?” All yes’s except Duke and ND of course.
-Donna Woodruff, who headed the selection committee, took questions afterwards like the total pro that she is.
-On another graphic, UVa was incorrectly labeled as a 3-seed.
-Anish was relegated to facelessly reciting the number of times each seed has been upset or has reached the final four, over a montage of championship clips. He seems to be on the outs. I think Cotter threatened to beat him up if he didn’t give him his air time.

Only surprise to me was seeing Harvard get in over Notre Dame. My guess is Byrne and his Crimson will show well against Rutgers

They won't. Its freshmen against talented veterans.

I think I'll watch the game to see how it plays out.

[HopFan16]

Let’s assume the rest of the field was settled and it came down to deciding between Notre Dame and Harvard — which I would wager there is a pretty high likelihood happened.

* Both teams have 8-4 records.
* Both teams have two top 10 RPI wins.
* Harvard has a top 5 RPI win
* Harvard has beaten 3 teams in the tournament field (Princeton, Brown, BU) including two seeded teams.
* Notre Dame has beaten none.

It’s kind of a no-brainer. What other objective criteria could you bring into it to tip the scales the other way?

The criteria is Anish and Carc said so

[Farfromgeneva]

Justify this all you want. This was a joke and the whole lacrosse world outside of the Ivy knows it. Maybe we can just let the RPI decide the champ from now on. No wonder this sport gets bumped by softball for TV time. Pathetic.

If it was based on RPI alone the ACC would have 3 teams

I didn’t understand his point either since they didn’t go straight RPI this year.

[nyjay]

Shocking stuff. One ACC team, ONE, in the tourney. RPI needs to be reworked, puts too much weight on OOC wins and then allows that advantage to self-propagate (seems like you count the OOC wins once then count them over and over again in looking at the quality of the conference games). That's how we end up with five ACC teams (in most years) and six Ivies (this year). I say this as a Hop fan (and we generally tend to benefit enormously from the system). I tend to believe that the fifth place team in a league generally shouldn't be getting an at large bid and the fourth place team getting one should be somewhat uncommon. B1G got the shaft last year (self-inflicted wound) and seems to in most years. As for this year's field and setting the seedings aside, switch Harvard for one of ND/Duke and I'm not sure the field is all that wrong. I believe OSU deserved their spot, but I'm a B1G homer.

Trace all this back to Princeton beating Georgetown, I guess.

[lagerhead]

ACC needs to get its house in order so they can get and AQ. If they had an AQ this year it would be a two bid conference probably knocking out Harvard.

[Matnum PI]

Bracket

[Laxter]

Justify this all you want. This was a joke and the whole lacrosse world outside of the Ivy knows it. Maybe we can just let the RPI decide the champ from now on. No wonder this sport gets bumped by softball for TV time. Pathetic.

If it was based on RPI alone the ACC would have 3 teams

I didn’t understand his point either since they didn’t go straight RPI this year.

I’m sorry you didn’t understand. The Ivy is seeded where they are because of RPI. Virginia is the only ACC team in the tourney because of RPI. Anything else? Looking forward to that 8/9 game, as I’m sure the Hoos are.

[TheBigIguana]

Justify this all you want. This was a joke and the whole lacrosse world outside of the Ivy knows it. Maybe we can just let the RPI decide the champ from now on. No wonder this sport gets bumped by softball for TV time. Pathetic.

If it was based on RPI alone the ACC would have 3 teams

I didn’t understand his point either since they didn’t go straight RPI this year.

I’m sorry you didn’t understand. The Ivy is seeded where they are because of RPI. Virginia is the only ACC team in the tourney because of RPI. Anything else? Looking forward to that 8/9 game, as I’m sure the Hoos are.

But this is blatantly untrue, ND and Duke have higher RPI rankings than Harvard and Ohio State

[Laxter]

Justify this all you want. This was a joke and the whole lacrosse world outside of the Ivy knows it. Maybe we can just let the RPI decide the champ from now on. No wonder this sport gets bumped by softball for TV time. Pathetic.

If it was based on RPI alone the ACC would have 3 teams

I didn’t understand his point either since they didn’t go straight RPI this year.

I’m sorry you didn’t understand. The Ivy is seeded where they are because of RPI. Virginia is the only ACC team in the tourney because of RPI. Anything else? Looking forward to that 8/9 game, as I’m sure the Hoos are.

But this blatantly untrue, ND and Duke have higher RPI rankings than Harvard and Ohio State

Ok. You tell what else explains these picks. Big wins and losses? What makes a big win big and bad loss bad? You guessed it ….

[ICGrad]

RPI needs to be reworked,

Problem is, every year everyone says this over the last 2 weeks of the season and the first 6 days after selection Sunday, and then the tourney begins and it's all forgotten.

I've never read anyone anywhere defending RPI, especially for a sport like Lacrosse with the small sample size. And yet year after year after year...

Maybe something will change this year. Maybe now that it's hallowed ACC schools on the outside looking in, something will actually happen. But my money's on a thread exactly like this one in the 2023 forum, where people complain about RPI and how unjust it is.

[Laxter]

Shocking stuff. One ACC team, ONE, in the tourney. RPI needs to be reworked, puts too much weight on OOC wins and then allows that advantage to self-propagate (seems like you count the OOC wins once then count them over and over again in looking at the quality of the conference games). That's how we end up with five ACC teams (in most years) and six Ivies (this year). I say this as a Hop fan (and we generally tend to benefit enormously from the system). I tend to believe that the fifth place team in a league generally shouldn't be getting an at large bid and the fourth place team getting one should be somewhat uncommon. B1G got the shaft last year (self-inflicted wound) and seems to in most years. As for this year's field and setting the seedings aside, switch Harvard for one of ND/Duke and I'm not sure the field is all that wrong. I believe OSU deserved their spot, but I'm a B1G homer.

Trace all this back to Princeton beating Georgetown, I guess.

Thank you! Reworked. Yes.