Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

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Lax101
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by Lax101 »

I'm late to the party. What is the projected 6-8 seeds? Curious to see who BC might face in the elite 8.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

There is no freaking way Rutgers beats Northwestern. The Scarlet Knights have the misfortune of being the appetizer for the WIldcats who want another swipe at their archrival in the final.
jeremyfallis
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:48 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:23 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:10 pm How do you calculate SOS? Do you use a website or do you calculate your own?
So their numbers are the ones I use because it's one of the five primary criteria for selection.
I should have been more specific. I meant to ask how/if you personally calculate SOS. I get from your answer that you use a website to access the NCAA committee's numbers, or more specifically, the numbers the committee uses for reference. Which site? If you don't mind.
Sure -- NCAA posts their sheets here: https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Non-NCAA reports I reference are here: https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/ -- note I would only cite the RPI/SOS numbers here, the Elo ratings and deeper analytics aren't supposed to be used by the committee, therefore I don't use them either.
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

Lax101 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:53 pm I'm late to the party. What is the projected 6-8 seeds? Curious to see who BC might face in the elite 8.
From Monday: https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/college/ ... -shake-out

The 8 seeds I projected were the same the committee put forth the week before (they were shown during halftime of the Michigan-Maryland game).

Thanks for the Q's everyone. Have a good night.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:06 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:48 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:23 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:10 pm How do you calculate SOS? Do you use a website or do you calculate your own?
So their numbers are the ones I use because it's one of the five primary criteria for selection.
I should have been more specific. I meant to ask how/if you personally calculate SOS. I get from your answer that you use a website to access the NCAA committee's numbers, or more specifically, the numbers the committee uses for reference. Which site? If you don't mind.
Sure -- NCAA posts their sheets here: https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Non-NCAA reports I reference are here: https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/ -- note I would only cite the RPI/SOS numbers here, the Elo ratings and deeper analytics aren't supposed to be used by the committee, therefore I don't use them either.
Thanks. So this page here:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Is this the correct page to see the current SOS rankings? It's a busy page for us newcomers. Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right page for SOS.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:46 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:06 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:48 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:23 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:10 pm How do you calculate SOS? Do you use a website or do you calculate your own?
So their numbers are the ones I use because it's one of the five primary criteria for selection.
I should have been more specific. I meant to ask how/if you personally calculate SOS. I get from your answer that you use a website to access the NCAA committee's numbers, or more specifically, the numbers the committee uses for reference. Which site? If you don't mind.
Sure -- NCAA posts their sheets here: https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Non-NCAA reports I reference are here: https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/ -- note I would only cite the RPI/SOS numbers here, the Elo ratings and deeper analytics aren't supposed to be used by the committee, therefore I don't use them either.
Thanks. So this page here:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Is this the correct page to see the current SOS rankings? It's a busy page for us newcomers. Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right page for SOS.
Unless "Opponent Success" is SOS here?

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... ties/26304
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:52 am
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:46 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:06 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:48 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:23 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 6:10 pm How do you calculate SOS? Do you use a website or do you calculate your own?
So their numbers are the ones I use because it's one of the five primary criteria for selection.
I should have been more specific. I meant to ask how/if you personally calculate SOS. I get from your answer that you use a website to access the NCAA committee's numbers, or more specifically, the numbers the committee uses for reference. Which site? If you don't mind.
Sure -- NCAA posts their sheets here: https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Non-NCAA reports I reference are here: https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/ -- note I would only cite the RPI/SOS numbers here, the Elo ratings and deeper analytics aren't supposed to be used by the committee, therefore I don't use them either.
Thanks. So this page here:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... orts/26304

Is this the correct page to see the current SOS rankings? It's a busy page for us newcomers. Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right page for SOS.
Unless "Opponent Success" is SOS here?

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... ties/26304
There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:58 am There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
But if I want to view only the current SOS rankings—which page would I view for that? Could you set it up and then include the link of that page and setting in your response? Thanks in advance.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by Dr. Tact »

crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
I think Rutgers is in the conversation for 8 if they solely beat Northwestern. They also have a nice win over JMU and current RPI of 8. You're likely right that they'd need to win the title, but it wouldn't surprise me if they slid in with one win.
As for Florida at 6? Really hard for me to see how you overlook their head to head losses vs Loyola and Stony Brook. I agree with your 8 seeds, would change your order on 6-8.
I agree with you. I dont see how Florida is any better than SBU or Loyola. Yes they beat Cuse, but that shouldnt be the reason they are #6. They have worse losses than both of those teams.
hmmm
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by hmmm »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:28 am
crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
I think Rutgers is in the conversation for 8 if they solely beat Northwestern. They also have a nice win over JMU and current RPI of 8. You're likely right that they'd need to win the title, but it wouldn't surprise me if they slid in with one win.
As for Florida at 6? Really hard for me to see how you overlook their head to head losses vs Loyola and Stony Brook. I agree with your 8 seeds, would change your order on 6-8.
I agree with you. I dont see how Florida is any better than SBU or Loyola. Yes they beat Cuse, but that shouldnt be the reason they are #6. They have worse losses than both of those teams.
Seeding a team with a worse record above two teams they lost to that have better records seems a little counterintuitive.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by Dr. Tact »

hmmm wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:45 am
Dr. Tact wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:28 am
crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
I think Rutgers is in the conversation for 8 if they solely beat Northwestern. They also have a nice win over JMU and current RPI of 8. You're likely right that they'd need to win the title, but it wouldn't surprise me if they slid in with one win.
As for Florida at 6? Really hard for me to see how you overlook their head to head losses vs Loyola and Stony Brook. I agree with your 8 seeds, would change your order on 6-8.
I agree with you. I dont see how Florida is any better than SBU or Loyola. Yes they beat Cuse, but that shouldnt be the reason they are #6. They have worse losses than both of those teams.
Seeding a team with a worse record above two teams they lost to that have better records seems a little counterintuitive.
^^^this^^^
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@inthe8m
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by @inthe8m »

crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
It would be a travesty. Then again, it was a travesty when Duke received a seed last year.
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you be like him yourself.
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Dr. Tact
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by Dr. Tact »

@inthe8m wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 11:03 am
crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
It would be a travesty. Then again, it was a travesty when Duke received a seed last year.
and again ^^^^this^^^^
jeremyfallis
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

Dr. Tact wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:21 pm
@inthe8m wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 11:03 am
crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
It would be a travesty. Then again, it was a travesty when Duke received a seed last year.
and again ^^^^this^^^^
TBH, I think Stony Brook and Loyola should be seeded ahead of Florida. But every committee applies all the criteria in different ways and head-to-head is just one component. Each one views the criteria differently. But their seeding of teams going into last week's regular season games are an indication they value the best wins possible and what I could coin "capability." They clearly view Florida's ceiling as higher than SBU and Loyola because they proved doing so, and the RPI backs that up, even if only by a place or two. Not saying it's right, just saying that's what appears to be happening.
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:04 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:58 am There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
But if I want to view only the current SOS rankings—which page would I view for that? Could you set it up and then include the link of that page and setting in your response? Thanks in advance.
It's all on the same page. Click on the SOS tab and it'll sort the teams for you.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women
crazyhorse
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by crazyhorse »

jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:31 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 12:21 pm
@inthe8m wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 11:03 am
crazyhorse wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:52 pm
Dr. Tact wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 8:26 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 7:57 pm. There's still a chance Duke gets in at No. 8 over Loyola or Rutgers does as well if the Scarlet Knights get past Northwestern. Rutgers will definitely be seeded if they win the Big Ten.
That would be sad
Sad is one word for Duke getting an 8 seed. After their performance in their last 2 games I would use "indefensible" or "unconscionable".
It would be a travesty. Then again, it was a travesty when Duke received a seed last year.
and again ^^^^this^^^^
TBH, I think Stony Brook and Loyola should be seeded ahead of Florida. But every committee applies all the criteria in different ways and head-to-head is just one component. Each one views the criteria differently. But their seeding of teams going into last week's regular season games are an indication they value the best wins possible and what I could coin "capability." They clearly view Florida's ceiling as higher than SBU and Loyola because they proved doing so, and the RPI backs that up, even if only by a place or two. Not saying it's right, just saying that's what appears to be happening.
very helpful - appreciate your insights.
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:32 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:04 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:58 am There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
But if I want to view only the current SOS rankings—which page would I view for that? Could you set it up and then include the link of that page and setting in your response? Thanks in advance.
It's all on the same page. Click on the SOS tab and it'll sort the teams for you.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women
That's different from the link you provided yesterday:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... ties/26304

I've used the lacrosse reference one before. According to the laxref site, the NCAA SOS gives the rankings of the Group of 5 I've been tracking as:

15 Florida
18 JMU
19 Stony Brook
20 Duke
27 Loyola

Is that found on the NCAA stats page you provided yesterday?
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by jeremyfallis »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:05 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:32 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:04 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:58 am There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
But if I want to view only the current SOS rankings—which page would I view for that? Could you set it up and then include the link of that page and setting in your response? Thanks in advance.
It's all on the same page. Click on the SOS tab and it'll sort the teams for you.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women
That's different from the link you provided yesterday:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... ties/26304

I've used the lacrosse reference one before. According to the laxref site, the NCAA SOS gives the rankings of the Group of 5 I've been tracking as:

15 Florida
18 JMU
19 Stony Brook
20 Duke
27 Loyola

Is that found on the NCAA stats page you provided yesterday?
The NCAA only updates every Monday morning. Lacrossereference.com site updates quite frequently, and the data is reliable (an exact replica of the formulas the NCAA uses).

Also -- that Rutgers score :shock:
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OuttaNowhereWregget
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 10:26 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:05 pm
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 7:32 pm
OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 9:04 am
jeremyfallis wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:58 am There is a lot going on there! The Top 10 Average Opponent RPI ranking is what you want. The value directly to the right is the average RPI of their top 10 opponents. For example, Virginia is the No. 1 SOS with an average opponent ranking of 7.2 among their top 10 opponents entering this week's games.
But if I want to view only the current SOS rankings—which page would I view for that? Could you set it up and then include the link of that page and setting in your response? Thanks in advance.
It's all on the same page. Click on the SOS tab and it'll sort the teams for you.

https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women
That's different from the link you provided yesterday:

https://stats.ncaa.org/selection_rankin ... ties/26304

I've used the lacrosse reference one before. According to the laxref site, the NCAA SOS gives the rankings of the Group of 5 I've been tracking as:

15 Florida
18 JMU
19 Stony Brook
20 Duke
27 Loyola

Is that found on the NCAA stats page you provided yesterday?
The NCAA only updates every Monday morning. Lacrossereference.com site updates quite frequently, and the data is reliable (an exact replica of the formulas the NCAA uses).

Also -- that Rutgers score :shock:
Thanks, Jeremy.

I know--I didn't see that coming. I've got to get the crow picture out for myself. 😉 It will be forthcoming. Rutgers looks great and they're playing great tonight. I'm happy for them. It's always nice to see a program get a years long monkey off their back.
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Re: Bracketology - Always a sign The Tournament is near

Post by OuttaNowhereWregget »

OuttaNowhereWregget wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 9:55 pm There is no freaking way Rutgers beats Northwestern. The Scarlet Knights have the misfortune of being the appetizer for the WIldcats who want another swipe at their archrival in the final.
Pass the salt, please...

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