Trump's Russian Collusion

[foreverlax]

There is NO WAY you, old salt, tech37, 6ft, or anyone else would "take Barr's word for it", when you have the report, in hand, ready to give to the American public...if this report was about Hillary or the Deep State.

OK a fan...

I have been for transparency since day one (as you know) but I have a hunch you're going to be disappointed when/if this is seen in an unredacted version.

Here's some logic for you... IMO, if Barr had mischaracterized the report, someone, someone out of those 19 democrat lawyers, 40 FBI agents, or "Bobby Three Sticks" (as the enamored resistance hopefuls like to refer to him) himself, by now, would have come forward and corrected the AG's summary.

Of course you'll disagree and/or tell me I said something I never did.

It's been reported that Mueller & members of his team who were DoJ employees are still working with Barr, Rosenstein & others in the DoJ & IC to determine what can be released in an unclassified report & what classified material needs to be briefed to the Gang of 8 &/or full Intel Comm's.
IF Barr has mis-characterized anything, then he will lose all credibility, ...& his wife will be shunned from Bible study group with Mrs Mueller.
I wonder if Barr & Mueller considered & consulted on how to best roll this thing out ?

Mischaracterization is the tune to this song....these guys are wordsmith. Cuomo and Rudy got in to it pretty good the other night, breaking down words double meanings, etc.

Starr/Reno/Clinton vs Mueller/Barr/Trump

I give the Ds credit for not crying about Mueller the way Trump did....the world would have exploded and Starr would have been a shot.

[a fan]

I'm HOPING that Trump is cleared for us rational Americans.

Trump being "cleared" is NOT ON THE TABLE HERE. That's what "does not exonerate him" means. Barr wrote what any credible person would admit is a highly partisan summary of the Mueller report. Consider that Barr himself decided to add the "does not exonerate" quote. Why would he do that? Because he needs some small thread to hang on to when the report is made public and we see how bad it is -- "look, I said it didn't exonerate him".

I'm not talking about Barr clearing Trump. Or Mueller clearing Trump.

I'm talking about getting the full Mueller report, and for reasonable Americans to clear Trump of conspiring with Russia.

[jhu72]

I'm HOPING that Trump is cleared for us rational Americans.

Trump being "cleared" is NOT ON THE TABLE HERE. That's what "does not exonerate him" means. Barr wrote what any credible person would admit is a highly partisan summary of the Mueller report. Consider that Barr himself decided to add the "does not exonerate" quote. Why would he do that? Because he needs some small thread to hang on to when the report is made public and we see how bad it is -- "look, I said it didn't exonerate him".

There is absolutely no legitimate reason why the report has not yet been made public. Redactions could have been completed by now, very easily. They are delaying only because they know the media frenzy over seeing the report will invariably die down. Barr already made a great effort at dulling the impact of the report with his summary. My guess is they will slowly release pieces of it, mostly redacted, so that everyone will grow numb to it. That, and they want to delay until we get to that cutoff date (which is pretty soon, and maybe even already passed) where Dems will decide an impeachment is not worth the risk with an election right around the corner.

There is no good ending to any of this, for anyone.

I have thought for some time now that impeachment was unlikely (well before the Barr release) in 2019. Mostly based on Pelosi's comments. I am not so convinced that is a horrible thing. The republican Senate will never be convinced to oust this clown. The congress will have everything they need within months. Barr can drag his feet all he likes, it will make him and the Trump administration look more guilty. If you look at the polling today, its 56 - 43 in who believes Trump/Barr, who believes Trump is guilty, who does not. Pretty much every poll having anything to do with Trump looks this way, as it has for ever -- the numbers are locked in. Barr has convinced no one who needs to be convinced, to this point. This appears to be as good as it is going to get for Trump/Barr. A similar poll next week will likely show this same thing.

Pelosi has impeachment in her kit, to be pulled out at any time where she believes it makes political sense. It may make sense in the future but not today. The democrats just need to keep on investigating while passing legislation. I don't see this as a problem.

[tech37]

How long is the Mueller report?

No s_ _t a fan...I said I'm all for transparency...go for it...I'm just saying I think you'll be disappointed.

Guess we'll know someday...or not.

Well, if it's "no *hit" , then why are you and others giving the libs grief for wanting to see the doggone thing? There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

As for me, I have my fingers crossed that there's zero there. I said that from the word go, and you can look it up on this site. If there's a whole bunch of bread crumbs that Mueller is simply giving to other Fed prosecutors or the NY AG, this will drag on for years. I DON"T want that. Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me. Anything else will fall into a subjective hole, where things like "intent" and other unprovable concepts will be fought over by all good partisans, ad infinitum.

[Typical Lax Dad]

How long is the Mueller report?

No s_ _t a fan...I said I'm all for transparency...go for it...I'm just saying I think you'll be disappointed.

Guess we'll know someday...or not.

Well, if it's "no *hit" , then why are you and others giving the libs grief for wanting to see the doggone thing? There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

As for me, I have my fingers crossed that there's zero there. I said that from the word go, and you can look it up on this site. If there's a whole bunch of bread crumbs that Mueller is simply giving to other Fed prosecutors or the NY AG, this will drag on for years. I DON"T want that. Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me.

Edutainment

Woud like to see what level Mueller's investigation rose to....wouldn't you?

[runrussellrun]

How long is the Mueller report?

No s_ _t a fan...I said I'm all for transparency...go for it...I'm just saying I think you'll be disappointed.

Guess we'll know someday...or not.

Well, if it's "no *hit" , then why are you and others giving the libs grief for wanting to see the doggone thing? There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

As for me, I have my fingers crossed that there's zero there. I said that from the word go, and you can look it up on this site. If there's a whole bunch of bread crumbs that Mueller is simply giving to other Fed prosecutors or the NY AG, this will drag on for years. I DON"T want that. Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me.

It really is amazing. People just make stuff up and then believe it's real. Like saying ALL republican deny climate change. They don't. They feel the pulse, just like the cross dressing homo that lives behind the walls and talks to god.
One poster claimed that the GOP wanted to surpress the report. When asked to produce said GOP surpressors.......nothing. Just make stuff up.
Us vs them.
Meanwhile, they keep on quietly kick the can down the road on one of the largest spending bills in the history of the USA. They did legalize hemp on the Federal level. One of the best lacrosse players never to step foot on the field in a college game got the first Maryland "permit" to grow it.

[Typical Lax Dad]

How long is the Mueller report?

No s_ _t a fan...I said I'm all for transparency...go for it...I'm just saying I think you'll be disappointed.

Guess we'll know someday...or not.

Well, if it's "no *hit" , then why are you and others giving the libs grief for wanting to see the doggone thing? There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

As for me, I have my fingers crossed that there's zero there. I said that from the word go, and you can look it up on this site. If there's a whole bunch of bread crumbs that Mueller is simply giving to other Fed prosecutors or the NY AG, this will drag on for years. I DON"T want that. Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me.

It really is amazing. People just make dump up and then believe it's real. Like saying ALL republican deny climate change. They don't. They feel the pulse, just like the cross dressing homo that lives behind the walls and talks to god.
One poster claimed that the GOP wanted to surpress the report. When asked to produce said GOP surpressors.......nothing. Just make dump up.
Us vs them.
Meanwhile, they keep on quietly kick the can down the road on one of the largest spending bills in the history of the USA. They did legalize hemp on the Federal level. One of the best lacrosse players never to step foot on the field in a college game got the first Maryland "permit" to grow it.

Why didn't he pay? Was he on the roster?

[tech37]

How long is the Mueller report?

No s_ _t a fan...I said I'm all for transparency...go for it...I'm just saying I think you'll be disappointed.

Guess we'll know someday...or not.

Well, if it's "no *hit" , then why are you and others giving the libs grief for wanting to see the doggone thing? There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

As for me, I have my fingers crossed that there's zero there. I said that from the word go, and you can look it up on this site. If there's a whole bunch of bread crumbs that Mueller is simply giving to other Fed prosecutors or the NY AG, this will drag on for years. I DON"T want that. Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me. Anything else will fall into a subjective hole, where things like "intent" and other unprovable concepts will be fought over by all good partisans, ad infinitum.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Geez, I wondered over here for the first time in a long while.

Did you all hear that the full special prosecutor’s report was released just a couple of years ago? That one was about Watergate.

Good luck reading the full Mueller.

And, before I head back to the drama in the Hopkins thread:

Where’s the pee tape?

Actually I think you can find them on the web. There were multiple, but all fake.

How do you know they were fake?

Various ex-IC types inhabiting the blogspere, twittisphere and the web claim there are a number of pee tapes out there which are rooskie disinformation. One of these, John Schindler, is highly thought of. He sometimes, but infrequently, appears on the Sunday talk shows. He knows his beans.

Ok. Just making sure you weren’t a witness or participant.

[a fan]

[There it is!...it was just a matter of time Where, pray tell, did I give "grief" to anyone over this. Except for a brief comment when Barr's summary first came out, I haven't made a peep. You're a piece of work a fan...

Says the guy who wrote "but I have a hunch you're going to be disappointed when/if this is seen in an unredacted version."

Patently wrong.

Look. We're going to make mistakes when gauging each others thoughts and POV's. I'm cool with it if you are. My apologies for the mistake.

Good, on that we agree. 2,800 subpoenas, nearly 500 search warrants, 500 hundred witness interrogations, and Mueller comes away with no criminal indictments for Trump or his inner circle...that's a fact and it works for me.

First of all, what are you talking about? One, two, three criminal indictments for Trump's inner circle. Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn.

Second all, what is this, your best Ron Ziegler impression? (Tricky Dick's Press Secretary played this game of listing how many witnesses were deposed....as if America was supposed to be impressed by how "thorough" their internal Watergate investigation was).

Third of all, do you boys think this is over? The longer Barr delays, the easier it is for the Dem to play the Benghazi game through the entire election season.

Who controls the House, again? They're going to take all the dirt in the Mueller report. Every. Speck. And take their time, and drag their feet, claim they're being stonewalled (sound familiar), and slooooooowly call subpoenas and witness until (drumroll) December of 2020.

Just like Benghazi. The playbook is right there, from the R's themselves. Hey: can anyone remember if the Benghazi game worked? Did Hillary win or lose?

[runrussellrun]

Come on AFAN,

The police arrive at a house party for noise violations and notice the "hemp" grow room.

Police pull over a car for a broken taillight, but see a gun on the floor.

In other words, the purpose of the investigation was.....welll you know what it was about. Mueller found other stuff, not related to his primary objective. Did he have a legal duty to report the other crimes that he found while investigation? Pretty sure TECH meant no one got charged with crimes, based on the purpose of the investigation. Collusion and obstruction.

You really holding onto that benghazi teddy bear as the reason Hillary lost? For starters, she didn't campaign in.........you know the drill. Real liberals couldn't stand her and her wall street speaking fees. real liberals laughed at her LBGTQ mind, shape shifting. at least that is what the same sex couples that I know said (5 of them....equals 10 people that sat home, refusing to vote for her )

[tech37]

First of all, what are you talking about? One, two, three criminal indictments for Trump's inner circle. Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn.

[old salt]

Ah, FoxNation logic. Delightful.

1. You hate Hillary
2. You and Foxnation want Hillary and other investigated and prosecuted for getting info from a foreign entity, and using it to hit her opponent
3. You can't now say it's ok for Trump's crew to try the same thing, except in a hotel room, in person
4. Because look at #1. And #2

What you and FoxNation forget----shocker---- is that Hillary was voted off the island. And one reason for this is that she's a corrupt pos.

Trump, on the other hand, is still here. So the "Hillary did it too" doesn't work. Because you hate her for corrupt cr*p like the Fusion thing, remember?

Up is down. Down is up. But go right ahead and keep supporting Trump for doing the same things that made you hate Hillary. It makes zero sense, but it's your deal, not mine.

Nice try. I didn't need FNC to tell me Steele was bogus. I knew it from the time he deserted his cats.

[a fan]

First of all, what are you talking about? One, two, three criminal indictments for Trump's inner circle. Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn.

So no matter what, I can't win with you. If I try and project what you mean, you jump on me for putting words in your mouth.

And if I quote you directly, you jump on me because I didn't read between the lines, project what you REALLY mean, and not take what you write literally.

[a fan]

Ah, FoxNation logic. Delightful.

1. You hate Hillary
2. You and Foxnation want Hillary and other investigated and prosecuted for getting info from a foreign entity, and using it to hit her opponent
3. You can't now say it's ok for Trump's crew to try the same thing, except in a hotel room, in person
4. Because look at #1. And #2

What you and FoxNation forget----shocker---- is that Hillary was voted off the island. And one reason for this is that she's a corrupt pos.

Trump, on the other hand, is still here. So the "Hillary did it too" doesn't work. Because you hate her for corrupt cr*p like the Fusion thing, remember?

Up is down. Down is up. But go right ahead and keep supporting Trump for doing the same things that made you hate Hillary. It makes zero sense, but it's your deal, not mine.

Nice try. I didn't need FNC to tell me Steele was bogus. I knew it from the time he deserted his cats.

Where did I say anything about Steele and bogus?

You don't get to say "Hillary did it, so it's ok Trump did it." That's all my point is here.

[a fan]

You really holding onto that benghazi teddy bear as the reason Hillary lost?

Oh for f-'s sake. Is there any subject that you don't play dumb about?

No. There's no possible way that partisan hammering of the Dem Candidate for President on national TV the entire time she was campaigning damaged her.

I'm insane. I mean: obviously. You're right. My take? The Benghazi hearings HELPED her. I mean, clearly. When you ask an American voter about Benghazi, they think "rainbows, sunshine, and the awesomeness and honesty of Hillary".

[tech37]

First of all, what are you talking about? One, two, three criminal indictments for Trump's inner circle. Cohen, Manafort, and Flynn.

So no matter what, I can't win with you. If I try and project what you mean, you jump on me for putting words in your mouth.

And if I quote you directly, you jump on me because I didn't read between the lines, project what you REALLY mean, and not take what you write literally.

no sweat a fan

[old salt]

Boo hoo. Poor Hillary. She should not have had to taken any accountability for Benghazi. Stuff happens.

It would not have dragged on for so long had she not stonewalled, then delayed further because of her slip & fall.

You're conflating Benghazi with her email/server investigation. That's what was mostly in the news about her - not Benghazi.

[a fan]

Boo hoo. Poor Hillary. She should not have had to taken any accountability for Benghazi. Stuff happens.

So everyone is playing dumb today?

You know doggone well that's not what I mean, because we've discussed this ad nauseum. I have said in this very thread that like Trump, Hillary had it coming, and did it to herself.

What I am saying to RRR is: the partisan Benghazi hammering of Hillary non-stop during an elections year damaged her. She did it to herself. We've been in agreement on this point for years now.

The Russia investigation would not have dragged on for so long had Trump not fired Comey, then delayed further because Trump and his crew kept lying to everyone and anyone.

You're conflating Trump and his advisors illegal activities with the Russia investigation. That's what was mostly in the news about Trump - not actual illegal conspiracy with Russia.

Well I'll be----are you starting to see the pattern?

[a fan]

no sweat a fan

Got a good laugh on that one. Thanks.