NCAA Tournament Selection

[UpperCorner22]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

[Jumbo]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

[UpperCorner22]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

[Slim]

I know I'm biased but I would take a team like St. Mary's College of MD, if they win their conference championship over several of the weak sisters conferences and their AQs. This team is 13-4 (one forfeit). They played a tough out of conference with games vs. Lynchburg, Salisbury, RMC, Elizabethtown, WAC, Mary Wash, Dickinson. Beat E'town, RMC, WAC and Mary Wash. Battled SU to the end 19-14. Unfortunately, got handled by LC and Dickinson losing 19-9 and 19-10. I still think they give most teams in the tourney a run for their money and their marquee guy2, Jude Brown, is one of the best in D3 this season. Jude is electric and it would be nice to see him on a bigger stage. Again, I'm biased but the fact that this team could be left out, if it wins the conference, is a shame.

[SpiritInTheStick]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

[UpperCorner22]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

OK - I can live with that argument.

[DeepPocket]

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

But as the game spreads, you come out with an entire region that is just flat out not competitive with the other teams in to the tournament, advancing past their peers and deeper into the tournament. While strong programs with a legitimate shot at the championship are not making it to the third round because they were all shoe-horned into regions together. In the name of saving travel costs of course…. (But if they eliminated a region worth of non competitive AQs, with HUGE distances between the teams they could cut travel costs way more).

[Laxdds]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA limits the number of players that can dress and actually be on the sidelines to somewhere around 30, so out of those 500 or so kids 200 are really getting kicked in the stones by the NCAA after and entire season of practicing and sacrificing for their team. I think if a school accepts a bid and wants to pick up the tab for more players than the NCAA will pay for they ought to be allowed to.

[JustOneTime]

Jude Brown is an excellent player but just playing in the NCAA tournament does not mean you get to play on a bigger "stage". If St. Mary's were to make the NCAA tournament they would most likely get beat in the first round on their opponents field in front of a couple hundred people. That is not the most grand stage. The goal for each team should be to win their conference. The conference championship game is usually the biggest stage they will ever play on. The teams that make the final 4 of course get to play on a large stage but St. Marys is not one of those teams.
The real problem with St. Marys is the conference that they joined. That was a bad move by their administration.

[Slim]

Agreed on a poor administrative decision completely. Understandable as well that they would not be a final 4 team. Just think given their record and OOC schedule, and Jude, it would be great to see him (and this team) get a shot to play in the NCAA tourney. Thanks for chiming in.

[InsiderRoll]

Agreed on a poor administrative decision completely. Understandable as well that they would not be a final 4 team. Just think given their record and OOC schedule, and Jude, it would be great to see him (and this team) get a shot to play in the NCAA tourney. Thanks for chiming in.

Is that their league for all sports? Does it benefit other programs?

[Slim]

Yes, it is with the exception of Sailing (D1)m and maybe crew. It seems to be a better fit for some of the other sports, but Men's and Women's lacrosse. The Seahawk women blew out every team in conference by at least 15-20 goals. They have the AQ, but the men do not.

[ICGrad]

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams.

Yeah, maybe this would be a better use of a Pool B concept though.

Top 16 conferences get AQ bids. The remaining 11 go into Pool B where conference winners compete for 4 (or 6) bids; rest of the bids go to Pool C.

This way, Pool B would be used to increase - not decrease - the number of worthy teams who get to compete in the NCAA tournament, and teams from conferences outside that top 16 would still have a path to get in.

Obvious sticking point: How to determine the top 16. But I think it would be doable by looking at OOC games/results.

[Laxisback]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA limits the number of players that can dress and actually be on the sidelines to somewhere around 30, so out of those 500 or so kids 200 are really getting kicked in the stones by the NCAA after and entire season of practicing and sacrificing for their team. I think if a school accepts a bid and wants to pick up the tab for more players than the NCAA will pay for they ought to be allowed to.

You are correct on that the NCAA does limit travel roster for tournament. Below is the official travel roster form they have to fill out.

Basically 32 players can dress and they can have 50 total including coaches on the sidelines.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... erForm.pdf

[Laxdds]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the NCAA limits the number of players that can dress and actually be on the sidelines to somewhere around 30, so out of those 500 or so kids 200 are really getting kicked in the stones by the NCAA after and entire season of practicing and sacrificing for their team. I think if a school accepts a bid and wants to pick up the tab for more players than the NCAA will pay for they ought to be allowed to.

You are correct on that the NCAA does limit travel roster for tournament. Below is the official travel roster form they have to fill out.

Basically 32 players can dress and they can have 50 total including coaches on the sidelines.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... erForm.pdf

Thanks for the update. Is the 50 allowed on the sidelines new? I remember players being in the stands just a few years ago.

[Patlaxer]

Just released coaches poll has Wesleyan at # 13, Amherst at #17. RPI, a better measure then SOS is exactly the same at .606.
Wesleyan won head to head regular season 21-14. Should they both lose Saturday, as I stated before, I believe Wesleyan would be selected before Amherst. Should Amherst beat Bowdoin and Wesleyan lose to Tufts then I agree Amherst would be selected first.

[boredatwork]

27 AQ's - all we get is 10 games with scores of 30-2... ludicrous. Its actually a waste of everyone's time.

Except the 500 kids on those 10 teams that actually get to be part of the NCAA touney. And we might get an upset.

At the expense of the 500 kids that are actually on good teams that deserve to be there long before those 500 kids and actually have a chance of an upset... I hear you - but there are some really bad teams in the tournament because of the AQ's.

Completely true. But the AQ also helps grow the number of NCAA teams. If there is an avenue for teams from all over the country to have a way to get into the tournament, it is more likely schools will add the sport, knowing they can recruit with the idea that their team can actually "compete for the national championship". If they just selected the top 28 or 36 teams for the tournament, it would usually have a lot of the same teams in it each year, and there would be less incentive for a school to add the sport if they have to climb up from nothing all the way to being a top 30 program in order to make the tournament. Now, they can join a conference of schools that typically have a somewhat similar budget, school, location, etc. and if you can beat your local rivals, you can make the national tournament a lot quicker which helps with the success of recruiting and keeping enough players to have the program continue. Look at Hope, Benedictine, SUNY Poly, and Northwestern-St. Paul from the 2021 tournament. All of those programs are less than 10 years old and had a chance to compete for a national championship because of an AQ. That kind of relatively-instant success can convince other athletic departments at similar schools to add the sport.

Just wait until conferences start splitting in half and getting multiple AQ's now that the number of teams required for an AQ is only 6. Hasn't happened in lacrosse yet but it's already happening in other sports.

[DeepPocket]

Just wait until conferences start splitting in half and getting multiple AQ's now that the number of teams required for an AQ is only 6. Hasn't happened in lacrosse yet but it's already happening in other sports.

MAC commonwealth and freedom. One conference. Two sides and two AQs.

[boredatwork]

Just wait until conferences start splitting in half and getting multiple AQ's now that the number of teams required for an AQ is only 6. Hasn't happened in lacrosse yet but it's already happening in other sports.

MAC commonwealth and freedom. One conference. Two sides and two AQs.

I was more referencing USA South which has now split into "Collegiate Conference of the South" which in some sports will take away another at large and give 2 AQ's to those 2 conferences

[JustOneTime]

Just released coaches poll has Wesleyan at # 13, Amherst at #17. RPI, a better measure then SOS is exactly the same at .606.
Wesleyan won head to head regular season 21-14. Should they both lose Saturday, as I stated before, I believe Wesleyan would be selected before Amherst. Should Amherst beat Bowdoin and Wesleyan lose to Tufts then I agree Amherst would be selected first.

The coaches poll does not matter when it comes to choosing the field. The NCAA regional rankings are what matters. Currently Amherst is ahead of Wesleyan in the Region 1 rankings. If they both lose on Saturday those rankings wont change. If they both lose a team from a different region may take their spot.