MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 9:09 pm
Was watching games today, yes!
IMO, Putin's military needs to be pushed out of Ukraine entirely, however long that takes, but sooner the better certainly. That's what the Ukrainians want, as long as they are armed to do it. They want reparations for the destruction and accountability for the war crimes...that'll take longer, but there will be no true peace possible, at this point, until Putin is deposed and the Russian people are led by people who understand what really happened and want to make amends.
And indeed, that's possible, while simultaneously actually increasing the prosperity of the average Russian, given the end of the kleptocracy that's bled them for multiple decades.
Yes, they can get progressively pushed back, yet still doing great damage deep within Ukraine...no doubt. So, pushing them out of Ukraine fully may well also require weapons that can destroy their artillery and missile launches from within Russia as well, though an 'iron dome' is potentially an alternative. The latter would be preferable, but the Russian military may need to feel the pain wherever they are firing from, no safe haven.
It needn't require American or other NATO troops to do it, but it will require our weaponry and technology, intelligence, etc. But if Putin resorts to chem, bio, or nuclear, we take out their military hard and fast from the air. And they should know that'll happen through our military to military communications. That's definitely not what we want to have to do, but we need to be prepared to do it.
a fan is correct that choking the Russian economy is the second, critical element. That's a longer term commitment, which will be challenging to sustain if Putin decides to pull out and posture as if he's going to not rearm and attack again. But doable, given the ongoing threat as long as Putin's calling the shots. No one should ever believe or trust him ever again.
But letting Putin consolidate the Donbas and land bridge to Crimea, with the expressed aspirations to take Odessa all the way through to Moldova... And ultimately take all of Ukraine...is all a non-starter for the Ukrainians and we should support their resolve, else it'll green light any nuclear power in the world to simply saber rattle and then take what they want.
Yes, it's all ugly, and yes, it's all costly, so the sooner we arm them with the very best that the West has at its disposal, the better.
But we do need to be sure we're not out ahead of where are allies are on this...fortunately, others in Europe are seeing this threat even more clearly than perhaps we do. It's on their doorstep.