Michigan 2022

[faircornell]

What’s your take about why they lost every game in the conference and will likely end with a losing record after a 7-0 start?

Jimmys and Joes.

I'll take a stab at this one. Michigan scheduled several "warm up" games against significantly lower ranked teams. The combined record of their first six opponents is (currently) 16-60 (.211). If you include Delaware (which was a good win), the combined record the first seven opponents is currently 24-65 (.270). They then jumped into an elite schedule with Gerry Byrne's revitalised Harvard, as well as other powerhouses. The two weakest this season (JHU and PSU) are still strong programs. Massey still rates the Wolverines in the top 20/25 range in the country. That's above several mature and historically strong programs. This may not be the complete answer, but it might provide perspective.

[gymman1031]

What’s your take about why they lost every game in the conference and will likely end with a losing record after a 7-0 start?

Jimmys and Joes.

I'll take a stab at this one. Michigan scheduled several "warm up" games against significantly lower ranked teams. The combined record of their first six opponents is (currently) 16-60 (.211). If you include Delaware (which was a good win), the combined record the first seven opponents is currently 24-65 (.270). They then jumped into an elite schedule with Gerry Byrne's revitalised Harvard, as well as other powerhouses. The two weakest this season (JHU and PSU) are still strong programs. Massey still rates the Wolverines in the top 20/25 range in the country. That's above several mature and historically strong programs. This may not be the complete answer, but it might provide perspective.

You make some good points. But I can't say that Penn State and Hopkins are currently strong programs. JHU has been down for multiple years, and Penn State hasn't been the same since losing Ament and Sabia.

[LongIslandLacks]

Look at Michigan’s league performance. Every game but yesterday’s Ohio State game, they trailed by at least four at the half. It was three yesterday, after an abysmal first quarter.

Athletically, they are fine. I frankly don’t think there is much disparity across the league athletically. Michigan may in fact have the most athletic player in the Big 10 on their team, Justin Brown—not sure anyone can match his speed or whip a shot with that velocity.

It does seem to me to be a coaching issue. Game prep and game planning. An offense that does not seem designed to exploit any weaknesses and has been unable to score until late in games. Defensively, throughout league play they have seemed to miss too many assignments and have a real weakness at SSDM in defending. Clearing has been fine with that group. Coach commented on his way to the locker room about failures to pick up GBs but had not made any adjustments on the wings or elsewhere to deal with that. Coaching is not telling guys to play harder.

The reason they scored over 20 and gave up few goals during the first half against poor competition is because they have good athletes and don’t need a game plan or thoughtful coaching adjustments to roll through that competition.

On to the tournament. Let’s see if a rematch against the Buckeyes is different. I’d like to see Tom Brady show up and be on the sideline to help them salvage a very disappointing season!

[gymman1031]

Look at Michigan’s league performance. Every game but yesterday’s Ohio State game, they trailed by at least four at the half. It was three yesterday, after an abysmal first quarter.

Athletically, they are fine. I frankly don’t think there is much disparity across the league athletically. Michigan may in fact have the most athletic player in the Big 10 on their team, Justin Brown—not sure anyone can match his speed or whip a shot with that velocity.

It does seem to me to be a coaching issue. Game prep and game planning. An offense that does not seem designed to exploit any weaknesses and has been unable to score until late in games. Defensively, throughout league play they have seemed to miss too many assignments and have a real weakness at SSDM in defending. Clearing has been fine with that group. Coach commented on his way to the locker room about failures to pick up GBs but had not made any adjustments on the wings or elsewhere to deal with that. Coaching is not telling guys to play harder.

The reason they scored over 20 and gave up few goals during the first half against poor competition is because they have good athletes and don’t need a game plan or thoughtful coaching adjustments to roll through that competition.

On to the tournament. Let’s see if a rematch against the Buckeyes is different. I’d like to see Tom Brady show up and be on the sideline to help them salvage a very disappointing season!

You make some great points. And I am sick of people saying Michigan doesn't have as much talent as the other Big Ten programs or other newer programs like High Point, Jacksonville, and Richmond who are doing well. Conry has recruited very, very well. They may still be young. But they are quite talented. In fact, it is very possible that the only Big Ten program that has a huge edge in talent is Maryland. As I have said, this year, the excuse of them being young is still valid. Next year, it won't be.

[HopFan16]

I was a Michigan bull after Conry's first year but I think this season has turned me into a bear. Barring an unexpected run through the B1G tournament, they are about to be 4-22 in the conference in Conry's five seasons at the helm. And that's come at a time when Maryland has really been the only consistently good B1G team year after year over those five seasons. It's not like all the other teams have been unbeatable juggernauts. How can anyone who supports the program find that acceptable? They have yet to finish a season as one of the top 4 seeds in the conference. Meaning if the B1G hadn't changed the rules to allow all six teams to qualify, they would not have even *made* a single conference tournament at this point, let alone be competitive to win one. And it goes without saying they have not remotely sniffed the NCAA tournament in 11 years as a D1 program. I have lots of family ties to Michigan (nearly went there myself) and root for them, except when playing Hopkins. The results are getting real tough to defend.

[gymman1031]

I was a Michigan bull after Conry's first year but I think this season has turned me into a bear. Barring an unexpected run through the B1G tournament, they are about to be 4-22 in the conference in Conry's five seasons at the helm. And that's come at a time when Maryland has really been the only consistently good B1G team year after year over those five seasons. It's not like all the other teams have been unbeatable juggernauts. How can anyone who supports the program find that acceptable? They have yet to finish a season as one of the top 4 seeds in the conference. Meaning if the B1G hadn't changed the rules to allow all six teams to qualify, they would not have even *made* a single conference tournament at this point, let alone be competitive to win one. And it goes without saying they have not remotely sniffed the NCAA tournament in 11 years as a D1 program. I have lots of family ties to Michigan (nearly went there myself) and root for them, except when playing Hopkins. The results are getting real tough to defend.

I will say over and over again. To last much longer, Conry should have to:

finish a season with at least ten wins
finish the Big Ten regular season in fourth place or higher

[CU77]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

[FannOLax]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

[HopFan16]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

never replace coaches ever! everyone gets a lifetime appointment!

[LongIslandLacks]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

He’s had about as much time as the prior coach was given and his record is not any better. They are not too different in the Big 10 on a win percentage. Conry is at 16% in league play. That is not cutting it for a school like Michigan that fields teams to win. Michigan can’t go for another assistant. With Paul they stayed with a dedicated guy who was all in for the school but no HC D1 experience. With Conry, they assumed getting an assistant from a powerful program would translate. They will have to commit to a current D1 HC with some track record.

[Essexfenwick]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

He’s had about as much time as the prior coach was given and his record is not any better. They are not too different in the Big 10 on a win percentage. Conry is at 16% in league play. That is not cutting it for a school like Michigan that fields teams to win. Michigan can’t go for another assistant. With Paul they stayed with a dedicated guy who was all in for the school but no HC D1 experience. With Conry, they assumed getting an assistant from a powerful program would translate. They will have to commit to a current D1 HC with some track record.

If I were hiring a new Lax coach I’d pay Debbie Yow 500k to come in and hire my coach. She picked Tillman and Cathy Reese

Plus at UMD she picked Fridge for football and James Franklin as coach in waiting … Michigan’s now Coach Bakich… Tennessee’s soccer coach Pensky… Brenda Freese… kept Sasho, Gary Willams, Missy Meharg… picked Pat Santoro for wrestling

She’s a genius at the next up and coming coach hires.

[jrn19]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

He’s had about as much time as the prior coach was given and his record is not any better. They are not too different in the Big 10 on a win percentage. Conry is at 16% in league play. That is not cutting it for a school like Michigan that fields teams to win. Michigan can’t go for another assistant. With Paul they stayed with a dedicated guy who was all in for the school but no HC D1 experience. With Conry, they assumed getting an assistant from a powerful program would translate. They will have to commit to a current D1 HC with some track record.

If I were hiring a new Lax coach I’d pay Debbie Yow 500k to come in and hire my coach. She picked Tillman and Cathy Reese

Plus at UMD she picked Fridge for football and James Franklin as coach in waiting … Michigan’s now Coach Bakich… Tennessee’s soccer coach Pensky… Brenda Freese… kept Sasho, Gary Willams, Missy Meharg… picked Pat Santoro for wrestling

She’s a genius at the next up and coming coach hires.

“Kept Gary Williams” is a nice way of saying she tried her hardest to run him off and if Gary hadn’t been so entrenched probably would have

Also, she didn’t hire Tillman, she just signed off on the hire her associate AD made, who ran the search

[Essexfenwick]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

He’s had about as much time as the prior coach was given and his record is not any better. They are not too different in the Big 10 on a win percentage. Conry is at 16% in league play. That is not cutting it for a school like Michigan that fields teams to win. Michigan can’t go for another assistant. With Paul they stayed with a dedicated guy who was all in for the school but no HC D1 experience. With Conry, they assumed getting an assistant from a powerful program would translate. They will have to commit to a current D1 HC with some track record.

If I were hiring a new Lax coach I’d pay Debbie Yow 500k to come in and hire my coach. She picked Tillman and Cathy Reese

Plus at UMD she picked Fridge for football and James Franklin as coach in waiting … Michigan’s now Coach Bakich… Tennessee’s soccer coach Pensky… Brenda Freese… kept Sasho, Gary Willams, Missy Meharg… picked Pat Santoro for wrestling

She’s a genius at the next up and coming coach hires.

“Kept Gary Williams” is a nice way of saying she tried her hardest to run him off and if Gary hadn’t been so entrenched probably would have

Also, she didn’t hire Tillman, she just signed off on the hire her associate AD made, who ran the search

Alot of alumni were very critical of Gary not winning any outright acc titles 6 years into Yows term. He won the natty 8 years in and then slipped back again. Gary’s low graduation rate after the natty got really bad press in the Post and then his recruiting slipped very badly. The recruiting got so desperate that Gary wanted to bring in a pretty good player that was accused of rape and Yow nixed it. Getting on Gary about graduation rates and not bringing in a player accused of rape really set Gary off since he was getting desperate for players.

[LaxPundit07]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

Lars had a couple of mediocre seasons at UVa before winning national championships, so it's possibly too early to judge the new Hop and Cuse head coaches, whereas Conry has now had time. Michigan has the budget to hire away a current D1 head coach, if and when it chooses to go that route.

He’s had about as much time as the prior coach was given and his record is not any better. They are not too different in the Big 10 on a win percentage. Conry is at 16% in league play. That is not cutting it for a school like Michigan that fields teams to win. Michigan can’t go for another assistant. With Paul they stayed with a dedicated guy who was all in for the school but no HC D1 experience. With Conry, they assumed getting an assistant from a powerful program would translate. They will have to commit to a current D1 HC with some track record.

If I were hiring a new Lax coach I’d pay Debbie Yow 500k to come in and hire my coach. She picked Tillman and Cathy Reese

Plus at UMD she picked Fridge for football and James Franklin as coach in waiting … Michigan’s now Coach Bakich… Tennessee’s soccer coach Pensky… Brenda Freese… kept Sasho, Gary Willams, Missy Meharg… picked Pat Santoro for wrestling

She’s a genius at the next up and coming coach hires.

This is a joke right?

She bankrupted the Maryland athletic department and ultimately they had to go Big Ten to bail themselves out with the TV money. She refused to name the basketball court “Gary Williams Court” despite lobbying from the governor to do so. She is a nightmare. Her sister, on the other hand, is a complete legend and is now sorely missed after her courageous battle with cancer.

[LaxPundit07]

I am not touching any of that with a 6 foot d pole….boy did you see the weather today? Gorgeous!

What do Michigan’s next few classes look like? I must say they had some young talent on the field last night. I was impressed. I know not the outcome they wanted, but there is some talent there.

[gymman1031]

I am not touching any of that with a 6 foot d pole….boy did you see the weather today? Gorgeous!

What do Michigan’s next few classes look like? I must say they had some young talent on the field last night. I was impressed. I know not the outcome they wanted, but there is some talent there.

Recruiting looks fine for Michigan in the future. And yes, they have lots of good, young talent. With them having more experience under their belts going into 2023, could they finally have THAT season?

[a fan]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

never replace coaches ever! everyone gets a lifetime appointment!

Took Richie Meade ten years of "meh" to get to the Final Four.

Took Simmie 9 years of "meh" to get to the Final Four

Took Toomey 7 years.....to FF

Marr? 16 years to FF

Andy Shay? 14 years to FF

Warne? 9 years to Quarters


Seems to me that you have to luck out to have success in five years. Yep, it's possible. But it's also possible the coach isn't the problem, and shifting coaches quickly can lead to gutting the program.

[gymman1031]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

never replace coaches ever! everyone gets a lifetime appointment!

Took Richie Meade ten years of "meh" to get to the Final Four.

Took Simmie 9 years of "meh" to get to the Final Four

Took Toomey 7 years.....to FF

Marr? 16 years to FF

Andy Shay? 14 years to FF

Warne? 9 years to Quarters


Seems to me that you have to luck out to have success in five years. Yep, it's possible. But it's also possible the coach isn't the problem, and shifting coaches quickly can lead to gutting the program.

Yes, but most of those coaches at least led their programs to multiple NCAA Tournament appearances in earlier years. Nope, it isn’t time to think about a coaching-change in Ann Arbor yet. But if much more time goes by and Michigan isn’t at least on the bubble come Selection Sunday, it will be.

[a fan]

Yes, but most of those coaches at least led their programs to multiple NCAA Tournament appearances in earlier years. Nope, it isn’t time to think about a coaching-change in Ann Arbor yet. But if much more time goes by and Michigan isn’t at least on the bubble come Selection Sunday, it will be.

I picked well known coaches that made Final Fours...could have listed a mess more of them. All of them had zero NCAA success in their first five years. If they'd have been fired...who knows what would have followed?

You and I don't see eye to eye on this. It takes time to build things in life.

And this is college. Failure is a pretty good teacher, if you ask me. And I know you aren't asking.


But when they get rid of Conry, as they did Paul, using the same logic.....I'll be here to take some friendly wagers on how the next coach does. Hope you're up for it.....

[HopFan16]

Replacing the coach at Michigan will work out just about as well as it has at Hopkins and Syracuse.

never replace coaches ever! everyone gets a lifetime appointment!

Took Richie Meade ten years of "meh" to get to the Final Four.

Took Simmie 9 years of "meh" to get to the Final Four

Took Toomey 7 years.....to FF

Marr? 16 years to FF

Andy Shay? 14 years to FF

Warne? 9 years to Quarters


Seems to me that you have to luck out to have success in five years. Yep, it's possible. But it's also possible the coach isn't the problem, and shifting coaches quickly can lead to gutting the program.

You're setting up a straw man which is becoming an epidemic round these parts lately. Nowhere did I say Michigan should be making Final Fours right now. But sure, let's use these guys for comparison anyway.

Toomey made the NCAA tourney twice in his first three years, three times in his first five years and either won or finished 2nd in his conference every single one of those years. Seems a tad more successful than Michigan's last five, no?

Marr made the tournament three times in his first five, went 15-3 and made the quarterfinals in his fifth year in the AE, sixth year overall.

Heck even Meade made the tournament in his fifth year. Guess all these guys you cited were lucky.

Georgetown looks good but they still haven't accomplished much in the tournament or made a FF under Warne which to you is the only measure of success no matter what the standards or expectations of a program are.

Don't ever blame the guy who runs the program for anything. Is that a fair characterization of your line of thinking? If not, is there a point at which a coach should be let go if the team is underperforming relative to expectations and not meeting goals? I made the "lifetime appointment" comment in jest but I am realizing that you might actually believe in that.