Johns Hopkins 2022

[Ruffled_Feathers]

I really doubt we're that much worse off in the recruiting sector than we've been under Petro the better part of the last decade. We generally ran out of clout back in 2010 or entirely squandered it on early recruiting in the years since. That said, while JHU isn't currently known to the kids as the power house it once was there's still plenty of tradition, "be the best" mentality and other things to sell young men on with regards to the program.

As far as school "feel" it takes all kinds. I sure wasn't going to be good enough to play D1 lacrosse and am more on the "total nerd" side of the jock to nerd scale balances for sure but I visit a place like UMD or other big state U and find myself absolutely mortified by the campus. To me the place is daunting in its scale and size and absolutely cold due to that. Sure the landscaping is nice and everything is clean but there's so much sprawl to those kind of places that I know immediately it's not "for me". The same could be said of schools located in a proper big city like NYU, I know that kind of living isn't something I have any interest in either.

What do you think the staff sold a kid like Koleton Marquis on? Or am I to understand he is just another overhyped and/or underacheiving player that only signed up to come to JHU because he didn't have any other choice?

[jhu06]

On the old forum around 2015 I posted a look at the recruiting class rankings IL puts together comparing loyola, uva-who had been a power back then at the end of starsia, and Hopkins. Loyola had nowhere near the caliber of classes that we or uva did and yet had a national championship and elite program at that time. All this nonsense about needing the best facilities in the world, the hottest girls, the easiest academics, the highest us news rankings, the best access to post grad networks, the best financial aid, the safest campuses, the most bucolic quads did not seem to hurt Toomey's ability to win a title. F-ing jacksonville knocked off duke this year with a kid from tufts.

I'm very proud to have attended Johns Hopkins University and loved Baltimore which to me is the best city in America to go to college in.
We have
-Weekly nationally televised games
-The best uniform in college sports
-Top 1 tradition in all of college sports
-The most famous and historic venue in the sport
-Top 1 alumni in the sport
-Rabil who is literally the founder of the pro lax league and a proud alum when he's not lost in his head
-Top 10 academics in the nation
-NIL opportunities if you don't suck
-An unmatched schedule for kids to play with local (many Hopkins athletes during my time married girls from towson and loyola who came to homewood to meet blue jays) rivalries in february storied national rivalries in march conference rivalries in april
-The best rivalries in the sport w/maryland navy syracuse uva unc loyola towson princeton
-An affordable city w/6 different colleges w/in uber distance, access to dc/nyc for interviews and networking
And a zillion other things

[MDlaxfan76]

There are circumstances where athletic scholarships help over the Ivies. . My father was well off and there was no way I was qualified for aid at Princeton, my first choice. He was an incredibly abusive guy so I was not particularly bothered by his complete abandonment of the family. My mother was in ill health and hospitaized. I was a good student and ranked in the top 5 in the nation, so yes an athletic scholarship at Duke was very welcome. I wanted to look seriously at D 3 and Hopkins and Williams were serious options. With high poverty and stress I believed I could win NCAA at D3 without the full time job of being a professional athlete. Again, no way to get aid unless I lived on my own for several years. Not something I had the maturity to do.

Hopkins is just as good if not more attractive academically than half of the Ivy League. And there is no difference between Duke and JHU - all comes down to fit. I was a poor abused geek,, so Duke had its challenges socially but I could not be choosy. Look at sport like women 's XC, where Hopkins has 7 recent titles. Those women are choosing Hopkins over Williams, Amherst and Bowdoin. And they make this choice even though JHU like most city schools is not an ideal running environment. It makes sense to me, though. I am not sure I understand the attraction of Maryland though. For a good student athlete, JHU makes so much more sense.

hmmm, that would be a pretty darn rare circumstance, but thanks for explaining it...would that have been recent? I suspect that (if a kid was mature enough to actually make the pitch), these days the Ivies (or Hopkins) would have understood the situation and made the financial, need based aid work. Not necessary for an athletic schollie...but of course, extremely few full rides go out anyway through the athletic route...much more likely to get substantial aid through need based. Bloomberg's dough has made Hopkins competitive in this way with the Ivies.

[MDlaxfan76]

There are circumstances where athletic scholarships help over the Ivies. . My father was well off and there was no way I was qualified for aid at Princeton, my first choice. He was an incredibly abusive guy so I was not particularly bothered by his complete abandonment of the family. My mother was in ill health and hospitaized. I was a good student and ranked in the top 5 in the nation, so yes an athletic scholarship at Duke was very welcome. I wanted to look seriously at D 3 and Hopkins and Williams were serious options. With high poverty and stress I believed I could win NCAA at D3 without the full time job of being a professional athlete. Again, no way to get aid unless I lived on my own for several years. Not something I had the maturity to do.

Hopkins is just as good if not more attractive academically than half of the Ivy League. And there is no difference between Duke and JHU - all comes down to fit. I was a poor abused geek,, so Duke had its challenges socially but I could not be choosy. Look at sport like women 's XC, where Hopkins has 7 recent titles. Those women are choosing Hopkins over Williams, Amherst and Bowdoin. And they make this choice even though JHU like most city schools is not an ideal running environment. It makes sense to me, though. I am not sure I understand the attraction of Maryland though. For a good student athlete, JHU makes so much more sense.

It's actually pretty simple. Are the academics just as good at Hopkins? Yes, and in some cases probably better but....Ivy league just carries more weight and prestige which is more attractive to a 17 YO kid. Everyone around the country has heard of the Ivy schools. I have lived in several places around the states and a lot of time people of heard of John's Hopkins the hospital but aren't at all familiar with the undergrad or even aware there was an undergrad. While it may not be true, fact is the IVY's are thought if as the cream of the crop universities around the world. I grew up in Baltimore so I was aware how awesome Hopkins was/is but it does not carry the same weight as an Ivy as far as recognition and prestige. The name matters and it will get your foot in the door for opportunities you otherwise wouldn't have access to. Is that fair or just? No, but its the truth

MD is extremely attractive to a 17 YO who wants to win and compete for a championship and go to a D1 school atmosphere with good academics. Fact is winning is attractive and to a lot of kids academics may not be their #1 priority. Second - not every lax player is a good student. Maryland has much easier acceptance criteria when compared to a Hopkins or IVY.

I agree that there's a lot of cache with the Ivies, likely part of the reason why my wife, son and I all went that route...HOWEVER, I think you may be under recognizing how strong the Hopkins brand is internationally, super high...yes, partly because of the Hospital and Medical School, and other graduate programs, but the undergraduate degree is extremely well respected...internationally...it has less cache domestically than internationally.

[jhu06]

Problems this year
Petros fault
Early recruiting
Lacking of speed and athleticism throughout the roster
Lack of Shooters and dodgers
low standards

PM's fault
clearing
offensive personnel
kirsons inconsistency to start the season
turnovers
weekly adjustments

[HopFan16]

Hopkins is not the only school that does sr day post game. That was a bad mistake tho given what was likely to transpire w/the terps.
They also screwed up moving homecoming to march when for baltimore it's cold out.
The womens team has always been a joke and they got rid of some good things from my time there like villa spellman and the crew team which were beloved but kept a program that has never done anything.
The lacrosse podcasts have thrown bouquets at grant jr for 2 years since he was hired and I don't see anything or anyone he's done that's improved this club. The lack of offensive talent 2 years in has been terrible.
Too bad quint couldn't be bothered to find tinney and schwartzman in the crowd to show that on tv.
Patrick Stevens @D1scourse Earning its way onto the list of ideas that don't look so great in retrospect: Hopkins having its Senior Day ceremonies after this game.

The Johns Hopkins women's team has made 3 consecutive NCAA Tournaments and 6 of the last 7. Something the men's team can't say at this moment in time.

At some point you would really do well with not talking about things you have absolutely no idea about. You speak with such certainty and yet so often show you don't have a single clue about the things you speak with so little certainty about.

he was turned down by a women's laxer in sweatpants 18 years ago and has never gotten over it

I don't know all of Marquis' suitors but I know at the very least Syracuse/Gait went after him hard and he chose us. Believe they continued to try to flip him after he committed. All it really takes is one truly elite talent for things to turn around. Things tend to coalesce from there. I have no idea if he'll be it but it's not out of the realm of possibility PM finds one (or multiple). He helped bring the best freshman in the country (CJ Kirst) to Cornell even though he had strong family ties to Rutgers, Villanova, and Lehigh. Don't know how large of a role he played in recruiting Teat but I assume he had one. The "no EQ" thing is kind of a wild accusation. I don't doubt the possibility that he and some of Petro's recruited players have struggled to connect — the pandemic restrictions probably didn't help the bonding process —  but that's very different. Having talked to a few people extremely close to the program this weekend, it's clear that a lot of posters here have absolutely no clue what anything really is like inside the program. As a general rule, the more certain their pronouncements about internal dynamics, the more wrong they are in all likelihood.

[jhu06]

-First of all HF16 I congratulate you on weeks of touting this defense including smith who was torched this weekend.
-Second of all a lot of kids when I was there really hated the athletes and in particular the lacrosse players who were viewed as aloof, elitist and not as bright as the rest of the student body and that was a decade before Daniels went after alumni admissions. I always liked most of them, but never cared for the fact that a lot of the female student athletes seem to contribute nothing to campus except walking around in sweatpants between classes dorms and the northwest end of campus.
-Third I really think in the social media era the idea of transcendent players and classes is a terrible idea. You're setting a kid up to fail. In the Gait/Petro even harrison era it was fun for a kid to get a magazine cover, maybe be interviewed on tv, but now everyone of his classmates has cellphone camera if he screws up, every administrator has umpteenth rules he can be knocked with, every parent/alum/student/media member/fan/bum has two hands to blast him on social media and every game is available to be watched and scrutinized you say to yourself what is the real benefit to the young man with this concept.
-Fourth we hear a lot that the message board posters don't know what's really going on or shouldn't talk about the players or shouldn't be critical, well we see the record on the field and that tells us everything we need to know. If you, or message board readers like xanders or quint have something you want to share about why we shouldn't be disappointed after a game like last week then perhaps you should put it out there. It wouldn't be hard for IL or the Sun to do what a real news outlet should do with this program which is 6500 words about "How Hopkins Lacrosse collapsed" from the early recruiting, to the off field stuff, to the friction with the administration that qk/preston have hinted at, to the player departures like Murphy and I'm sure that's just a start.

[jrn19]

Ah, there it is. Follow up the fact you make a baseless and denigrating comment towards the women’s lacrosse team with a shot at their appearance and the fact they didn’t act towards you the way you wanted. Always nice when r the mask comes off

[DocBarrister]

jhu06, you are a f*ing d*k

Doc, now that you got that out of your system... Chill. No personal attacks.

Probation without prison time! Thank you.

DocBarrister <——— Criminal Element

[PulpExposure]

He helped bring the best freshman in the country (CJ Kirst) to Cornell

He's a sophomore. Didn't play last year because of COVID, but graduated Delbarton in 2020.

[HopFan16]

never cared for the fact that a lot of the female student athletes seem to contribute nothing to campus except walking around in sweatpants between classes dorms and the northwest end of campus.

what did you contribute to campus? let us know

-Third I really think in the social media era the idea of transcendent players and classes is a terrible idea. You're setting a kid up to fail. In the Gait/Petro even harrison era it was fun for a kid to get a magazine cover, maybe be interviewed on tv, but now everyone of his classmates has cellphone camera if he screws up, every administrator has umpteenth rules he can be knocked with, every parent/alum/student/media member/fan/bum has two hands to blast him on social media and every game is available to be watched and scrutinized you say to yourself what is the real benefit to the young man with this concept.

who is doing that? I shared a highlight that was cool

If you, or message board readers like xanders or quint have something you want to share about why we shouldn't be disappointed after a game like last week then perhaps you should put it out there.

I didn't say you shouldn't be disappointed. I said blind assertions that the coach has low EQ are dumb. In fact any blind assertion as to the internal dynamics of the program are bad and often incorrect.

Is it possible for you to post one time without horribly mischaracterizing what someone else has said?

[NYterp09]

On the old forum around 2015 I posted a look at the recruiting class rankings IL puts together comparing loyola, uva-who had been a power back then at the end of starsia, and Hopkins. Loyola had nowhere near the caliber of classes that we or uva did and yet had a national championship and elite program at that time. All this nonsense about needing the best facilities in the world, the hottest girls, the easiest academics, the highest us news rankings, the best access to post grad networks, the best financial aid, the safest campuses, the most bucolic quads did not seem to hurt Toomey's ability to win a title. F-ing jacksonville knocked off duke this year with a kid from tufts.

I'm very proud to have attended Johns Hopkins University and loved Baltimore which to me is the best city in America to go to college in.
We have
-Weekly nationally televised games
-The best uniform in college sports
-Top 1 tradition in all of college sports
-The most famous and historic venue in the sport
-Top 1 alumni in the sport
-Rabil who is literally the founder of the pro lax league and a proud alum when he's not lost in his head
-Top 10 academics in the nation
-NIL opportunities if you don't suck
-An unmatched schedule for kids to play with local (many Hopkins athletes during my time married girls from towson and loyola who came to homewood to meet blue jays) rivalries in february storied national rivalries in march conference rivalries in april
-The best rivalries in the sport w/maryland navy syracuse uva unc loyola towson princeton
-An affordable city w/6 different colleges w/in uber distance, access to dc/nyc for interviews and networking
And a zillion other things

Obviously you’re going to be biased towards Hopkins and Baltimore and that is fine, but almost no one outside of Hopkins would agree with a lot of things you listed there. Best uniform? Best tradition? In ALL of college sports?? Not many are going to agree with you there.

[Maverick]

& Charm City's fading national image as a safe place to reside is not helping recruiting.

I spent the weekend in Baltimore and had the complete opposite takeaway. Charles Village has never been better, there is a state-of-the-art student center opening in 2024 and Fed Hill & Fell's Point neighborhoods are a college student's dream. Just bar after bar after bar, so much to eat and drink. The harbor area also has a ton more restaurants and such now than it did just 10 years ago. I would love to go to school there now and if I had college-aged kids I'd be thrilled for them if they got to spend four years there. It's not difficult for an undergrad student to stay out of the bad areas.

Campus was really lively this weekend, a lot going on. FIJI Islander was on Saturday and walking past it looked the same as ever. Ronny D doesn't seem too concerned about a bunch of rowdy college kids drinking in his literal backyard.

One other thing — they have clearly invested in the video board, pregame presentation, programs, overall gameday experience, etc. compared to when I was a student not that long ago. Go to a game and it becomes instantly clear that the conspiracy talk that this president and AD for some reason want to neglect the program into irrelevance is hilariously stupid. I also visited the new athletic center and it is one million times nicer and more "D1" than ever.

Glad to hear you weren't the victim of the car jacking that happened after the game in charles village. 5 armed suspects.... Scary stuff

[masondixonlax]

On the old forum around 2015 I posted a look at the recruiting class rankings IL puts together comparing loyola, uva-who had been a power back then at the end of starsia, and Hopkins. Loyola had nowhere near the caliber of classes that we or uva did and yet had a national championship and elite program at that time. All this nonsense about needing the best facilities in the world, the hottest girls, the easiest academics, the highest us news rankings, the best access to post grad networks, the best financial aid, the safest campuses, the most bucolic quads did not seem to hurt Toomey's ability to win a title. F-ing jacksonville knocked off duke this year with a kid from tufts.

I'm very proud to have attended Johns Hopkins University and loved Baltimore which to me is the best city in America to go to college in.
We have
-Weekly nationally televised games
-The best uniform in college sports
-Top 1 tradition in all of college sports
-The most famous and historic venue in the sport
-Top 1 alumni in the sport
-Rabil who is literally the founder of the pro lax league and a proud alum when he's not lost in his head
-Top 10 academics in the nation
-NIL opportunities if you don't suck
-An unmatched schedule for kids to play with local (many Hopkins athletes during my time married girls from towson and loyola who came to homewood to meet blue jays) rivalries in february storied national rivalries in march conference rivalries in april
-The best rivalries in the sport w/maryland navy syracuse uva unc loyola towson princeton
-An affordable city w/6 different colleges w/in uber distance, access to dc/nyc for interviews and networking
And a zillion other things

Obviously you’re going to be biased towards Hopkins and Baltimore and that is fine, but almost no one outside of Hopkins would agree with a lot of things you listed there. Best uniform? Best tradition? In ALL of college sports?? Not many are going to agree with you there.

This post was so ridiculous I assumed there was a silent agreement that it didn't warrant a response

[Chitown]

I moved back to the East Coast and decided to go to the Maryland game. It was a good/bad experience. Nothing is better than seeing a game in person without the focused camera shots and the announcers' comments. Also the crowd at Homewood was better than half Maryland fans, noisy, and really enjoying themselves, as they should.

Maryland really is in a class by themselves. They play with intensity, speed, and athleticism. All the time. Not just a few players, but everyone. Hopkins' offense was slow moving, no cutters, many players were not competitive. If Maryland had wanted to score 30 goals, they could have.

Whose fault that Maryland has gotten so much better than us? I don't know, but if I was going to place blame it would be on "early recruiting". I think that we will edge back but it will take several years. As Bill Tierney famously said, "I can teach stickwork and offensive and defensive schemes, BUT I can't teach speed and athleticism". The shelves were pretty bare 2 years ago.

I am patient. Look for improvement each year over the next few years.

Maryland is a much better team than they were a year ago. I would not bet against them this year.

[harflax]

Hopkins is not the only school that does sr day post game. That was a bad mistake tho given what was likely to transpire w/the terps.
They also screwed up moving homecoming to march when for baltimore it's cold out.
The womens team has always been a joke and they got rid of some good things from my time there like villa spellman and the crew team which were beloved but kept a program that has never done anything.
The lacrosse podcasts have thrown bouquets at grant jr for 2 years since he was hired and I don't see anything or anyone he's done that's improved this club. The lack of offensive talent 2 years in has been terrible.
Too bad quint couldn't be bothered to find tinney and schwartzman in the crowd to show that on tv.
Patrick Stevens @D1scourse Earning its way onto the list of ideas that don't look so great in retrospect: Hopkins having its Senior Day ceremonies after this game.

The Johns Hopkins women's team has made 3 consecutive NCAA Tournaments and 6 of the last 7. Something the men's team can't say at this moment in time.

At some point you would really do well with not talking about things you have absolutely no idea about. You speak with such certainty and yet so often show you don't have a single clue about the things you speak with such certainty about.

Janine Tucker has a career D1 conference record of 48-54. She never beat Maryland. In fact, her best player transferred to Maryland this year. She was notorious for loading up her out of conference schedule with subpar programs. She is a tremendous person, but as her record indicates and like I said in a previous post she was a mediocre at best coach.

[Hail to the Victors]

...
See my response to that above. In response to someone attacking his low EQ, which is laughable, I explained his family dynamic (wife, kids, and their political perspective) directly refuted that notion.

As inconceivable as this may be to you, I do not believe that those words mean what you think they mean.

Please explain. My small mind doesn’t understand your point.

No argument here.

[jrn19]

Cathy Reese has won 90% of her career games. Ninety. There are a whole bunch of people who never beat Cathy Reese. When Tucker started, the program was D3. Not D1 like the men have been forever. They transitioned from D3 in 1999, didn’t have a losing season till 2008, made first NCAA Tournament in 2004 and have made the tournament more often than they’ve missed it since then. Subpar opponents or not you gotta win a lot of key games to get the tournament 9 times.

There have been better coaches than her during her time, sure, and they could have been more successful, sure. But a random poster deciding to call the team representing the school he’s supposedly so proud to be an alum of “a joke”, that “never won anything”, and suggest they should get cut or move to D3 when that poster has a years long vendetta against how the women’s players dress on campus to the point everyone knows about it; and to do so on a day where the HC won her last home game and had apparently 300 alums show up to support her …that’s something that should be called out as Bush league

[Homer]

Look I agree that they should have and could have played in fall of 2020. However I think your losing perspective if you think that Hopkins lacrosse is looked at by it’s administration the same way SEC football is looked at by administrators. There’s plenty that they can do better in terms of managing the program from the administration down. But Hopkins is really up against it in the B1G. They’re facing bigger budgets and a sea of resources, along with the fading mystique of Hopkins Lacrosse.

A lot of people say stuff like this, but I'm not all that persuaded. If you look at Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan -- as a group their stature in the sport today collectively seems about the same as it was in 2015, back when Hopkins last made the FF. I'm sure a spigot of crazy football money is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't look like any more of a prerequisite for success today than it was a decade ago.

More broadly, I guess I could be persuaded this is wrong, but just eyeballing it I don't get the sense the mix of teams in the top 5-10-20 that have P5 resources vs. those that don't has changed much over the years. Just the names on the front of the jerseys. If it's 20 years ago and I say, "there's an expensive urban private university in the Mid-Atlantic that doesn't have FBS football, not an Ivy, that's 12-1 and #3 in the RPI right now," you'd have said, sounds about right. Only you'd have guessed Hopkins, not Georgetown.

I just think that the Hopkins faithful have a false reality about what this program can really be year in and year out. And although Hopkins is an amazing academic school, for some reason the highest academic kids still seem to prioritize the Ivy in the recruiting process.

Okay, fine, let's say for purposes of argument that the Ivies are an inappropriate comparison. I'm not sure that I agree, but let's stipulate. What's the relevant peer group? Who should Hopkins, completely apart from any crap about tradition or mystique or whatever, be benchmarking against?

If the peer group is "urban schools, no big-time football money, relatively high academic prestige but not Ivies," that includes:

Boston U
Georgetown
Johns Hopkins

Am I missing anybody? You could maybe sort of shoehorn Villanova or Lehigh or Richmond in, but I think the three we've got are a pretty natural comparison group. I notice two of those three having pretty nice seasons this year. I think in any year, if two out of the three are doing well, the third's entitled to say, "Why not us?" So why not us?

[Big Dog]

Look I agree that they should have and could have played in fall of 2020. However I think your losing perspective if you think that Hopkins lacrosse is looked at by it’s administration the same way SEC football is looked at by administrators. There’s plenty that they can do better in terms of managing the program from the administration down. But Hopkins is really up against it in the B1G. They’re facing bigger budgets and a sea of resources, along with the fading mystique of Hopkins Lacrosse.

A lot of people say stuff like this, but I'm not all that persuaded. If you look at Notre Dame, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan -- as a group their stature in the sport today collectively seems about the same as it was in 2015, back when Hopkins last made the FF. I'm sure a spigot of crazy football money is a nice thing to have, but it doesn't look like any more of a prerequisite for success today than it was a decade ago.

More broadly, I guess I could be persuaded this is wrong, but just eyeballing it I don't get the sense the mix of teams in the top 5-10-20 that have P5 resources vs. those that don't has changed much over the years. Just the names on the front of the jerseys. If it's 20 years ago and I say, "there's an expensive urban private university in the Mid-Atlantic that doesn't have FBS football, not an Ivy, that's 12-1 and #3 in the RPI right now," you'd have said, sounds about right. Only you'd have guessed Hopkins, not Georgetown.

I just think that the Hopkins faithful have a false reality about what this program can really be year in and year out. And although Hopkins is an amazing academic school, for some reason the highest academic kids still seem to prioritize the Ivy in the recruiting process.

Okay, fine, let's say for purposes of argument that the Ivies are an inappropriate comparison. I'm not sure that I agree, but let's stipulate. What's the relevant peer group? Who should Hopkins, completely apart from any crap about tradition or mystique or whatever, be benchmarking against?

If the peer group is "urban schools, no big-time football money, relatively high academic prestige but not Ivies," that includes:

Boston U
Georgetown
Johns Hopkins

Am I missing anybody? You could maybe sort of shoehorn Villanova or Lehigh or Richmond in, but I think the three we've got are a pretty natural comparison group. I notice two of those three having pretty nice seasons this year. I think in any year, if two out of the three are doing well, the third's entitled to say, "Why not us?" So why not us?

small nit, but BU is not in the same academic class as Georgetown and Hopkins. Moreover, you are cherry-picking FBS football, as Georgetown is D1 in the 23 sports that they offer, but football is FCS, just like the Ivies.