Conservative Ideology: A Big Lie

[CU88]

WIll she lie or take the 5th today?

https://www.c-span.org/video/?519623-1/ ... ve-hearing

[Seacoaster(1)]

So after some pretty dull opening statements, we are now hearing from the expert for the folks trying to keep Margy off the ballot. He is testifying about the creation and meaning of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Pretty nice little history lesson, which will almost certainly be lost on MTG.

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability."

The questions would seem to be (1) was there an insurrection within the meaning of Section 3 on January 6; (2) whether she participated in such an insurrection; and (3) whether, as a legal matter, this provision is "self-executing" or can be triggered by a voter, rather than carried out by the Congress itself. Any others?

[jhu72]

Gotta love republiCONS. The Tennessee legislature passed a law this week outlawing homelessness. Yup it will solve the homeless problem. If you are found to be camping out on public property, you will be fined $50. Probably a bunch of other dumbass laws like this in various states.

[cradleandshoot]

Gotta love republiCONS. The Tennessee legislature passed a law this week outlawing homelessness. Yup it will solve the homeless problem. If you are found to be camping out on public property, you will be fined $50. Probably a bunch of other dumbass laws like this in various states.

Outlawing homelessness, sounds like something you and your DemocRATS would try and outlaw... FYI there is no curing the homeless problem. Back in Woodie Guthries day they were called HOBOs. You dumbass FLP liberals call them disenfranchised folks who can only get by and survive if they accept your crumbs.
Let me know Doc if your willing to allow a homeless encampment in your front yard?
For some reason I can't visualize you rolling out the welcome wagon for them.

[jhu72]

Gotta love republiCONS. The Tennessee legislature passed a law this week outlawing homelessness. Yup it will solve the homeless problem. If you are found to be camping out on public property, you will be fined $50. Probably a bunch of other dumbass laws like this in various states.

Outlawing homelessness, sounds like something you and your DemocRATS would try and outlaw... FYI there is no curing the homeless problem. Back in Woodie Guthries day they were called HOBOs. You dumbass FLP liberals call them disenfranchised folks who can only get by and survive if they accept your crumbs.
Let me know Doc if your willing to allow a homeless encampment in your front yard?
For some reason I can't visualize you rolling out the welcome wagon for them.

.... sure there is a solution. Give them homes. In Baltimore we have lots of abandoned property. Same as Rochester NY. Same as all over this country. You don't like that solution, just leave them alone. Makes more sense than fining them $50 which they can't pay, so you put them in jail. How about put them in jail for the night and feed them - without stealing money from them. Lots of better solutions, but dumbasses like you would rather fine them $50.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Q: "Did you advocate to President Trump to impose martial law as a way to remain in power?"

Greene: "I don't recall."

Q: "So you're not denying you did it? You just don't remember."

Greene: "I don't remember."

Who among us would remember if we told the President to declare martial law in an attempt to overturn the results of a presidential election?

Today’s GOP.

[cradleandshoot]

Gotta love republiCONS. The Tennessee legislature passed a law this week outlawing homelessness. Yup it will solve the homeless problem. If you are found to be camping out on public property, you will be fined $50. Probably a bunch of other dumbass laws like this in various states.

Outlawing homelessness, sounds like something you and your DemocRATS would try and outlaw... FYI there is no curing the homeless problem. Back in Woodie Guthries day they were called HOBOs. You dumbass FLP liberals call them disenfranchised folks who can only get by and survive if they accept your crumbs.
Let me know Doc if your willing to allow a homeless encampment in your front yard?
For some reason I can't visualize you rolling out the welcome wagon for them.

.... sure there is a solution. Give them homes. In Baltimore we have lots of abandoned property. Same as Rochester NY. Same as all over this country. You don't like that solution, just leave them alone. Makes more sense than fining them $50 which they can't pay, so you put them in jail. How about put them in jail for the night and feed them - without stealing money from them. Lots of better solutions, but dumbasses like you would rather fine them $50.

Giving someone a home does not equate to having the capacity to run the home once you own it. There are those pesky things called property taxes, county taxes, town taxes, school taxes, maintenance and upkeep on the house. Who pays for the plumbing call when the chitter craps the bed and on and on and on and on and on. Your a homeowner, you know how expensive it can be.
FTR doc, you ever known someone who flipped a house. The look on their faces when they find the inspector tells them they have an asbestos issue. The next look in their face when they find out abating the issue is 10 grand you don't have in your budget. We won't even touch on the lead paint on the trim.

[old salt]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond. IF...

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

[Kismet]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

Cheney has been totally thrown under the bus by McCarthy and the rest of the GOP. Won't it be rich if she's the only one standing after its all over. They have shown ZERO loyalty to her so why should she reciprocate?

That said, no idea if she is the source of the leak......but she's a good bet.

[cradleandshoot]

Gotta love republiCONS. The Tennessee legislature passed a law this week outlawing homelessness. Yup it will solve the homeless problem. If you are found to be camping out on public property, you will be fined $50. Probably a bunch of other dumbass laws like this in various states.

Outlawing homelessness, sounds like something you and your DemocRATS would try and outlaw... FYI there is no curing the homeless problem. Back in Woodie Guthries day they were called HOBOs. You dumbass FLP liberals call them disenfranchised folks who can only get by and survive if they accept your crumbs.
Let me know Doc if your willing to allow a homeless encampment in your front yard?
For some reason I can't visualize you rolling out the welcome wagon for them.

.... sure there is a solution. Give them homes. In Baltimore we have lots of abandoned property. Same as Rochester NY. Same as all over this country. You don't like that solution, just leave them alone. Makes more sense than fining them $50 which they can't pay, so you put them in jail. How about put them in jail for the night and feed them - without stealing money from them. Lots of better solutions, but dumbasses like you would rather fine them $50.

Sadly dumbasses like you don't live in the real world. You don't have an effing clue how much it can cost to rehab a dilapidated house. You should use caution when discussing issues that you know Jack chit about. So how much does it cost Dr dumbass to replumb a house that has had every effing copper pipe removed by scrappers??? How much does it cost to rewire the house to code and put in a new breaker box??? How much does it cost to gut a kitchen/ bathroom to the studs and do a complete remodel?? How much does a complete tear off cost for the roof??? How much does it cost to replace 100 year old windows?? How much does it cost to replace that oil burning furnace and have the 250 gallon tank drained and removed?? How much does it cost to insulate and or paint/ put new siding on the house??? How much does it cost to have that old asphalt driveway dug up and resurfaced??? How much does it cost to upgrade broken plaster and repaint all the interior walls??? How much does it cost to update all the electrical outlets to GFI and make sure all the outlets are properly grounded???? Just give em a house Dr dumbass.. you can't possibly be this clueless, but yet you are. Do you think the term "money pit" is not a real thing?

[old salt]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

...you are just making stuff up. Somebody taped the call. Why would McCarthy release it ? Listen to the tape. He told Liz what he was thinking about doing. Did he actually do it, or change his mind after consulting others ? Was the vote taken yet ? Did they know then that only 1 member of their caucus would vote in favor of the resolution. It was a confidential strategy session between 2 party leaders. It was not a public statement or firm commitment. You are a dishonest McCarthyite & a disgrace to the legal profession. Were name calling & personal attacks productive for you ?

[cradleandshoot]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

...you are just making stuff up. Somebody taped the call. Why would McCarthy release it ? Listen to the tape. He told Liz what he was thinking about doing. Did he actually do it, or change his mind after consulting others ? Was the vote taken yet ? Did they know then that only 1 member of their caucus would vote in favor of the resolution. It was a confidential strategy session between 2 party leaders. It was not a public statement or firm commitment. You are a dishonest McCarthyite & a disgrace to the legal profession. Were name calling & personal attacks productive for you ?

Is it fair to say that having a confidential conversation with anyone in DC is no longer possible? That use to be the same as a politician having a conversation with a member of the media that was " off the record" The new normal is that especially in Washington DC.. don't ever trust any effing body.. your side or theirs. Even people you think you can speak to in confidence will eff you with secretly recorded conversations. What that boils down to is that at highest levels of our government.. no one can trust anyone. Tell me how that is a good thing???

[CU88]

BREAKING: Arizona is challenging the results of the French election.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Luttig really pouring it on these days about the seditionists:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/opinions ... index.html

"Nearly a year and a half later, surprisingly few understand what January 6 was all about.

Fewer still understand why former President Donald Trump and Republicans persist in their long-disproven claim that the 2020 presidential election was stolen. Much less why they are obsessed about making the 2024 race a referendum on the “stolen” election of 2020, which even they know was not stolen.

January 6 was never about a stolen election or even about actual voting fraud. It was always and only about an election that Trump lost fair and square, under legislatively promulgated election rules in a handful of swing states that he and other Republicans contend were unlawfully changed by state election officials and state courts to expand the right and opportunity to vote, largely in response to the Covid pandemic.

The Republicans’ mystifying claim to this day that Trump did, or would have, received more votes than Joe Biden in 2020 were it not for actual voting fraud, is but the shiny object that Republicans have tauntingly and disingenuously dangled before the American public for almost a year and a half now to distract attention from their far more ambitious objective.

That objective is not somehow to rescind the 2020 election, as they would have us believe. That’s constitutionally impossible. Trump’s and the Republicans’ far more ambitious objective is to execute successfully in 2024 the very same plan they failed in executing in 2020 and to overturn the 2024 election if Trump or his anointed successor loses again in the next quadrennial contest.

The last presidential election was a dry run for the next.

From long before Election Day 2020, Trump and Republicans planned to overturn the presidential election by exploiting the Electors and Elections Clauses of the Constitution, the Electoral College, the Electoral Count Act of 1877, and the 12th Amendment, if Trump lost the popular and Electoral College vote.

The cornerstone of the plan was to have the Supreme Court embrace the little known “independent state legislature” doctrine, which, in turn, would pave the way for exploitation of the Electoral College process and the Electoral Count Act, and finally for Vice President Mike Pence to reject enough swing state electoral votes to overturn the election using Pence’s ceremonial power under the 12th Amendment and award the presidency to Donald Trump.

The independent state legislature doctrine says that, under the Elections and the Electors Clauses of the Constitution, state legislatures possess plenary and exclusive power over the conduct of federal presidential elections and the selection of state presidential electors. Not even a state supreme court, let alone other state elections officials, can alter the legislatively written election rules or interfere with the appointment of state electors by the legislatures, under this theory.

The Supreme Court has never decided whether to embrace the independent state legislature doctrine. But then-Chief Justice William Rehnquist, and Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas in separate concurring opinions said they would embrace that doctrine in Bush v. Gore, 20 years earlier, and Republicans had every reason to believe there were at least five votes on the Supreme Court for the doctrine in November 2020, with Amy Coney Barrett having just been confirmed in the eleventh hour before the election.

Trump and the Republicans began executing this first stage of their plan months before November 3, by challenging as violative of the independent state legislature doctrine election rules relating to early- and late-voting, extensions of voting days and times, mail-in ballots, and other election law changes that Republicans contended had been unlawfully altered by state officials and state courts in swing states such as Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, North Carolina and Michigan.

These cases eventually wound their way to the Supreme Court in the fall of 2020, and by December, the Supreme Court had decided all of these cases, but only by orders, either disallowing federal court intervention to change an election rule that had been promulgated by a state legislature, allowing legislatively promulgated rules to be changed by state officials and state courts, or deadlocking 4-4, because Justice Barrett was not sworn in until after those cases were briefed and ready for decision by the Court. In none of these cases did the Supreme Court decide the all-important independent state legislature doctrine.

Thwarted by the Supreme Court’s indecision on that doctrine, Trump and the Republicans turned their efforts to the second stage of their plan, exploitation of the Electoral College and the Electoral Count Act.

The Electoral College is the process by which Americans choose their presidents, a process that can lead to the election as president of a candidate who does not receive a majority of votes cast by the American voters. Republicans have grown increasingly wary of the Electoral College with the new census and political demographics of the nation’s shifting population.

The Electoral Count Act empowers Congress to decide the presidency in a host of circumstances where Congress determines that state electoral votes were not “regularly given” by electors who were “lawfully certified,” terms that are undefined and ambiguous. In this second stage of the plan, the Republicans needed to generate state-certified alternative slates of electors from swing states where Biden won the popular vote who would cast their electoral votes for Trump instead. Congress would then count the votes of these alternative electoral slates on January 6, rather than the votes of the certified electoral slates for Biden, and Trump would be declared the reelected president.

The Republicans’ plan failed at this stage when they were unable to secure a single legitimate, alternative slate of electors from any state because the various state officials refused to officially certify these Trump-urged slates.

Thwarted by the Supreme Court in the first stage, foiled by their inability to come up with alternative state electoral slates in the second stage, and with time running out, Trump and the Republicans began executing the final option in their plan, which was to scare up illegitimate alternative electoral slates in various swing states to be transmitted to Congress. Whereupon, on January 6, Vice President Pence would count only the votes of the illegitimate electors from the swing states, and not the votes of the legitimate, certified electors that were cast for Biden, and declare Donald Trump’s reelection as President of the United States.

The entire house of cards collapsed at noon on January 6, when Pence refused to go along with the ill-conceived plan, correctly concluding that under the 12th Amendment he had no power to reject the votes that had been cast by the duly certified electors or to delay the count to give Republicans even more time to whip up alternative electoral slates.

Pence declared Joe Biden the 46th President of the United States at 3:40 a.m. on Thursday, January 7, roughly 14 hours after rioters stormed the US Capitol, disrupting the Joint Session and preventing Congress from counting the Electoral College votes for president until late that night and into the following day, after the statutorily designated day for counting those votes.

Trump and his allies and supporters in Congress and the states began readying their failed 2020 plan to overturn the 2024 presidential election later that very same day and they have been unabashedly readying that plan ever since, in plain view to the American public. Today, they are already a long way toward recapturing the White House in 2024, whether Trump or another Republican candidate wins the election or not.

Trump and Republicans are preparing to return to the Supreme Court, where this time they will likely win the independent state legislature doctrine, now that Amy Coney Barrett is on the Court and ready to vote. Barrett has not addressed the issue, but this turns on an originalist interpretation of the Constitution, and Barrett is firmly aligned on that method of constitutional interpretation with Thomas, Alito, and Gorsuch, all three of whom have written that they believe the doctrine is correct.

Only last month, in a case from North Carolina the Court declined to hear, Moore v. Harper, four Justices (Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch and Kavanaugh) said that the independent state legislature question is of exceptional importance to our national elections, the issue will continue to recur and the Court should decide the issue sooner rather than later before the next presidential election. This case involved congressional redistricting, but the independent state legislature doctrine is as applicable to redistricting as it is to presidential elections.

The Republicans are also in the throes of electing Trump-endorsed candidates to state legislative offices in key swing states, installing into office their favored state election officials who deny that Biden won the 2020 election, such as secretaries of state, electing sympathetic state court judges onto the state benches and grooming their preferred potential electors for ultimate selection by the party, all so they will be positioned to generate and transmit alternative electoral slates to Congress, if need be.

Finally, they are furiously politicking to elect Trump supporters to the Senate and House, so they can overturn the election in Congress, as a last resort.

Forewarned is to be forearmed.

Trump and the Republicans can only be stopped from stealing the 2024 election at this point if the Supreme Court rejects the independent state legislature doctrine (thus allowing state court enforcement of state constitutional limitations on legislatively enacted election rules and elector appointments) and Congress amends the Electoral Count Act to constrain Congress’ own power to reject state electoral votes and decide the presidency.

Although the Vice President will be a Democrat in 2024, both parties also need to enact federal legislation that expressly limits the vice president’s power to be coextensive with the power accorded the vice president in the 12th Amendment and confirm that it is largely ceremonial, as Pence construed it to be on January 6.

Vice President Kamala Harris would preside over the Joint Session in 2024. Neither Democrats nor Republicans have any idea who will be presiding after that, however. Thus, both parties have the incentive to clarify the vice president’s ceremonial role now.

As it stands today, Trump, or his anointed successor, and the Republicans are poised, in their word, to “steal” from Democrats the presidential election in 2024 that they falsely claim the Democrats stole from them in 2020. But there is a difference between the falsely claimed “stolen” election of 2020 and what would be the stolen election of 2024. Unlike the Democrats’ theft claimed by Republicans, the Republicans’ theft would be in open defiance of the popular vote and thus the will of the American people: poetic, though tragic, irony for America’s democracy."

[jhu72]

BREAKING: Arizona is challenging the results of the French election.

[MDlaxfan76]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

...you are just making stuff up. Somebody taped the call. Why would McCarthy release it ? Listen to the tape. He told Liz what he was thinking about doing. Did he actually do it, or change his mind after consulting others ? Was the vote taken yet ? Did they know then that only 1 member of their caucus would vote in favor of the resolution. It was a confidential strategy session between 2 party leaders. It was not a public statement or firm commitment. You are a dishonest McCarthyite & a disgrace to the legal profession. Were name calling & personal attacks productive for you ?

There were likely more than two people on that call, and likely staffers as well. You're making an accusation, Salty, without evidence. Yes, that's immensely hypocritical coming from you and the insult in response is the result.

McCarthy baldfacedly lied about this conversation and what we have continued to learn since the initial release of this tape is that McCarthy was indeed appalled at what had happened and extremely concerned that more violence was going to happen due to incitement from his Members. There's no question about where his head was at the time, though I'd posit that his concern may well have been more about political fallout than the actual costs of violence. But he knew it was wrong for Trump and his Members to incite violence...

In one sense, it's reassuring that McCarthy and Scalise as well as Cheney...and other Members...were aware that what had gone down was very, very wrong and that Trump and some of the Members and Senators had been complicit in its incitement, but it's also quite depressing that they then bailed out from doing the hard thing of cleansing the party from that stench, those errors.

So far, we haven't heard that McCarthy and Scalise etc understood, fully, what some of the Members and Senators had been doing behind the scenes in fomenting the efforts to create a sense of 'legitimacy' to the coup attempt, as much of what is exposed in these most recent tapes is McCarthy being informed of what some Members were doing and saying even after Jan 6, and his negative reactions as he learned. Surprise, disgust, dismay. But perhaps we will soon learn that he then learned more, and how widespread the cancer was, and that's why he bailed on trying to excise it...not just a couple of rogue Members but a whole lot of them, and much worse behavior than he'd ever imagined. Too much cancer to be able to cut it out without 'killing' himself in the process.

So, instead he went to Mar a Lago and bent the knee and then has made every possible effort to provide air cover for even the most egregious offenders, no matter what they said and did...and is still doing so. Live with the cancer...for now...

[Peter Brown]

Just wondering if we can agree -- all of us -- that Kevin McCarthy is really the dumbest most venal f*ckwad in Congress?

First, he denies that he told his caucus he wanted Trump to resign and discussed the 25th Amendment with GOP leadership. Then a tape of the very conversation appears, which completely refutes the denial. In the tape, McCarthy casually discusses the option of the 25th Amendment, telling Trump to resign, and making sure Pence won’t pardon him, with Scalise and Liz Cheney...only to, a couple of weeks later, kick Cheney out of leadership for saying the same things he did.

This is your party's potential Speaker of the House.

Have you heard the entire tape ? It sounds to me like McCarthy & Cheney were gaming out (in confidence) their House caucus response IF the 25th Amendment was invoked (was it ?). It was not an unconditional statement that he would act. It was a "what if".
It was a non-binding symbolic House Resolution, urging VP Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Only 1 (R) voted in favor of the resolution & it was not Cheney. She & McCarthy were discussing how their caucus should respond.

Regarding trust. Who'd trust Cheney to have a phone call with her, thinking it's in confidence ?

Oh, you — Mr. Evidence and Where’s the Crime — know that Cheney taped the call and leaked it? And gaming it out? No, sir. He’s talking to allies about what he plans to do. Resist any pardon from Pense. I really don’t know how you call yourself an American. You may be the saddest, most disappointing poster on these pages.

...you are just making stuff up. Somebody taped the call. Why would McCarthy release it ? Listen to the tape. He told Liz what he was thinking about doing. Did he actually do it, or change his mind after consulting others ? Was the vote taken yet ? Did they know then that only 1 member of their caucus would vote in favor of the resolution. It was a confidential strategy session between 2 party leaders. It was not a public statement or firm commitment. You are a dishonest McCarthyite & a disgrace to the legal profession. Were name calling & personal attacks productive for you ?

There were likely more than two people on that call, and likely staffers as well. You're making an accusation, Salty, without evidence. Yes, that's immensely hypocritical coming from you and the insult in response is the result.

McCarthy baldfacedly lied about this conversation and what we have continued to learn since the initial release of this tape is that McCarthy was indeed appalled at what had happened and extremely concerned that more violence was going to happen due to incitement from his Members. There's no question about where his head was at the time, though I'd posit that his concern may well have been more about political fallout than the actual costs of violence. But he knew it was wrong for Trump and his Members to incite violence...

In one sense, it's reassuring that McCarthy and Scalise as well as Cheney...and other Members...were aware that what had gone down was very, very wrong and that Trump and some of the Members and Senators had been complicit in its incitement, but it's also quite depressing that they then bailed out from doing the hard thing of cleansing the party from that stench, those errors.

So far, we haven't heard that McCarthy and Scalise etc understood, fully, what some of the Members and Senators had been doing behind the scenes in fomenting the efforts to create a sense of 'legitimacy' to the coup attempt, as much of what is exposed in these most recent tapes is McCarthy being informed of what some Members were doing and saying even after Jan 6, and his negative reactions as he learned. Surprise, digest, dismay. But perhaps we will soon learn that he then learned more, and how widespread the cancer was, and that's why he bailed on trying to excise it...not just a couple of rogue Members but a whole lot of them, and much worse behavior than he'd ever imagined. Too much cancer to be able to cut it out without 'killing' himself in the process.

So, instead he went to Mar a Lago and bent the knee and then has made every possible effort to provide air cover for even the most egregious offenders, no matter what they said and did...and is still doing so. Live with the cancer...for now...

Does anyone remember that major American cities had to board up shops and stores the night of the election because we knew the left would riot if Trump won again?

[MDlaxfan76]

And that's relevant how to the excise of the cancer in the GOP?

And to be clear, no city official recommended doing so, as there were no actual credible threats of such related to the election, according to officials. But there was definitely some fear based on the experiences the prior summer in the wake of the murder of George Floyd and other such police violence murders.

https://www.npr.org/2020/11/02/93037134 ... f-election

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 069157002/

[Seacoaster(1)]

And that's relevant how to the excise of the cancer in the GOP?

Shiny Object much? Shamelessness is their superpower. This is a venerated Fourth Circuit Judge, and renowned "Conservative." But they don't want to deal with the reality; they want us to "move on." To 2024.