Conservative Ideology: A Big Lie

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cradleandshoot
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:15 am
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:16 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:41 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:44 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:18 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:53 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:25 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:27 pm:roll:
What's that supposed to mean? Because you post that what he says is not true? 1st grade stuff. Are you that full of yourself? I don't want an answer.

Joe
:lol: :roll:
Keep it up Joe, it's entertaining watching you try to snuggle up with Petey.
That's rich, now you are threatening me? It's so sad you let one person occupy so much space in your head. There's so much more to life than FLP forums. Go work on that golf game of yours. :lol: :lol:

Joe


I think the key thing is MD did not refute the provable allegations that many FLP engage in constant misinformation by flatly refusing to hear the ‘other side’. Bari Weiss’s article was such an excellent piece on how libs have really harmed truth and discourse by trafficking in provable lies, which when those lies are exposed, not only do they then decline to engage in civil dialogue…they demand the actual fact providers voices be silenced! It’s really remarkable.
The pathetic response is TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING TROLLING. If they don't like what you say... The ignore function is on this forum for a reason. Word of advice to you jackwagons...USE THE TOOL THIS FORUM has given you. IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. You folks are more inclined to enjoy whining and bitching complaining more than anything else. There is one thing on this forum I have put on permanent ignore. The peace of mind is well worth the self induced agita you folks torture yourselves with. You folks have an ignore function... Use it for crying out loud. You don't have to read a single word from any poster on this forum unless you choose to do so.


+1

I don’t do that (block) because I like to know what the other side is thinking.
I respect you for that. This particular individual in any attempt to have a discussion resorts to the same asinine logic over and over and over... Your buddy Bush... After the 1000th time of telling this psychopath Bush was not my buddy I came to the conclusion I would no longer waste my time arguing with an idiot. I'm guessing after you waste enough of your time you will come to the same conclusion. Knock yourself out and give it your best try.
Please don't include me in your circle jerk.
I never said any such thing to you cradle re Bush, so leave me out.



Relax MD. He’s not referring to you.
Thank you very much Pete. I just tried to explain this to MD in a post below this one. My comments had nothing to do with him.
I wonder if MD will apologize to me when he realized he just stepped on his dinghus and made an ass of himself. ;)
Apologize for what??
That one part of the reference was to another poster...so what?
I simply don't want to be included in your back and forth insulting others, yes, 'circle jerk', especially given that I find so much of the trolling to be offensive and unhelpful to an actual civil discourse.

Want to have that conversation, patting each other on the back, fine, just don't do it in a thread including me, referring to me, please.
😘 Happy Easter 🤗
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 26312
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:09 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:15 am
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:16 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:41 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:44 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:18 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:53 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:25 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:27 pm:roll:
What's that supposed to mean? Because you post that what he says is not true? 1st grade stuff. Are you that full of yourself? I don't want an answer.

Joe
:lol: :roll:
Keep it up Joe, it's entertaining watching you try to snuggle up with Petey.
That's rich, now you are threatening me? It's so sad you let one person occupy so much space in your head. There's so much more to life than FLP forums. Go work on that golf game of yours. :lol: :lol:

Joe


I think the key thing is MD did not refute the provable allegations that many FLP engage in constant misinformation by flatly refusing to hear the ‘other side’. Bari Weiss’s article was such an excellent piece on how libs have really harmed truth and discourse by trafficking in provable lies, which when those lies are exposed, not only do they then decline to engage in civil dialogue…they demand the actual fact providers voices be silenced! It’s really remarkable.
The pathetic response is TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING TROLLING. If they don't like what you say... The ignore function is on this forum for a reason. Word of advice to you jackwagons...USE THE TOOL THIS FORUM has given you. IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. You folks are more inclined to enjoy whining and bitching complaining more than anything else. There is one thing on this forum I have put on permanent ignore. The peace of mind is well worth the self induced agita you folks torture yourselves with. You folks have an ignore function... Use it for crying out loud. You don't have to read a single word from any poster on this forum unless you choose to do so.


+1

I don’t do that (block) because I like to know what the other side is thinking.
I respect you for that. This particular individual in any attempt to have a discussion resorts to the same asinine logic over and over and over... Your buddy Bush... After the 1000th time of telling this psychopath Bush was not my buddy I came to the conclusion I would no longer waste my time arguing with an idiot. I'm guessing after you waste enough of your time you will come to the same conclusion. Knock yourself out and give it your best try.
Please don't include me in your circle jerk.
I never said any such thing to you cradle re Bush, so leave me out.



Relax MD. He’s not referring to you.
Thank you very much Pete. I just tried to explain this to MD in a post below this one. My comments had nothing to do with him.
I wonder if MD will apologize to me when he realized he just stepped on his dinghus and made an ass of himself. ;)
Apologize for what??
That one part of the reference was to another poster...so what?
I simply don't want to be included in your back and forth insulting others, yes, 'circle jerk', especially given that I find so much of the trolling to be offensive and unhelpful to an actual civil discourse.

Want to have that conversation, patting each other on the back, fine, just don't do it in a thread including me, referring to me, please.
😘 Happy Easter 🤗
Same to you; just got back from sunrise service.
Beautiful morning.
Hope yours is as well.
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14476
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:26 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 6:09 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 5:06 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 6:15 am
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 7:16 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 6:41 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:44 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:21 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 4:18 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:53 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 3:15 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 2:25 pm
JoeMauer89 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 1:09 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Fri Apr 15, 2022 12:27 pm:roll:
What's that supposed to mean? Because you post that what he says is not true? 1st grade stuff. Are you that full of yourself? I don't want an answer.

Joe
:lol: :roll:
Keep it up Joe, it's entertaining watching you try to snuggle up with Petey.
That's rich, now you are threatening me? It's so sad you let one person occupy so much space in your head. There's so much more to life than FLP forums. Go work on that golf game of yours. :lol: :lol:

Joe


I think the key thing is MD did not refute the provable allegations that many FLP engage in constant misinformation by flatly refusing to hear the ‘other side’. Bari Weiss’s article was such an excellent piece on how libs have really harmed truth and discourse by trafficking in provable lies, which when those lies are exposed, not only do they then decline to engage in civil dialogue…they demand the actual fact providers voices be silenced! It’s really remarkable.
The pathetic response is TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING, TROLLING TROLLING. If they don't like what you say... The ignore function is on this forum for a reason. Word of advice to you jackwagons...USE THE TOOL THIS FORUM has given you. IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE, IGNORE. You folks are more inclined to enjoy whining and bitching complaining more than anything else. There is one thing on this forum I have put on permanent ignore. The peace of mind is well worth the self induced agita you folks torture yourselves with. You folks have an ignore function... Use it for crying out loud. You don't have to read a single word from any poster on this forum unless you choose to do so.


+1

I don’t do that (block) because I like to know what the other side is thinking.
I respect you for that. This particular individual in any attempt to have a discussion resorts to the same asinine logic over and over and over... Your buddy Bush... After the 1000th time of telling this psychopath Bush was not my buddy I came to the conclusion I would no longer waste my time arguing with an idiot. I'm guessing after you waste enough of your time you will come to the same conclusion. Knock yourself out and give it your best try.
Please don't include me in your circle jerk.
I never said any such thing to you cradle re Bush, so leave me out.



Relax MD. He’s not referring to you.
Thank you very much Pete. I just tried to explain this to MD in a post below this one. My comments had nothing to do with him.
I wonder if MD will apologize to me when he realized he just stepped on his dinghus and made an ass of himself. ;)
Apologize for what??
That one part of the reference was to another poster...so what?
I simply don't want to be included in your back and forth insulting others, yes, 'circle jerk', especially given that I find so much of the trolling to be offensive and unhelpful to an actual civil discourse.

Want to have that conversation, patting each other on the back, fine, just don't do it in a thread including me, referring to me, please.
😘 Happy Easter 🤗
Same to you; just got back from sunrise service.
Beautiful morning.
Hope yours is as well.
A surprise from Lake Ontario.. lake effect snow left a coating of snow all around. The sun is out now and it looks beautiful. My daffodils out front look very unhappy.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Seacoaster(1)
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
ouch
Some leadership there, huh?
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MDlaxfan76
Posts: 26312
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:25 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
ouch
Some leadership there, huh?
As a "failed" or "fallen" Republican, it's horrifying...
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 4724
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:32 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:25 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
ouch
Some leadership there, huh?
As a "failed" or "fallen" Republican, it's horrifying...
I think you mean “survived.”
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14476
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote:
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:25 pm
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:23 pm
ouch
Some leadership there, huh?
As a "failed" or "fallen" Republican, it's horrifying...
Who knows more about what it means to be a "failed republican" than yourself... Tell us all again why you will NEVER be the featured speaker at the RNC? If your hypothesis for your party is correct they would be beating down your door to solicite your input. You are the red haired step child of your party. 99.99999999% of your own party disagrees with everything you say on this forum. Those folks are not wealthy Blueblood Rockefeller Republicans like yourself. They are actual real world Republicans. I will never agree with them but I relate very closely with why they are Republicans.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Seacoaster(1)
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Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... opponents/

"The GOP no longer argues that free markets, rather than government, should choose “winners and losers.”

In today’s Republican Party, the primary economic role of the state is not to get out of the way. It is, instead, to reward friends and crush political enemies.

Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham expressed the new ethos in a recent monologue threatening companies that advocated for LGBTQ rights, ballot access, racial justice and sundry other political stances that are anathema in today’s GOP.

“When Republicans, they get back into power, Apple and Disney need to understand one thing: Everything will be on the table,” Ingraham warned. “Your copyright, trademark protection. Your special status within certain states. And even your corporate structure itself. The antitrust division at Justice needs to begin the process of considering which American companies need to be broken up once and for all for competition’s sake, and ultimately for the good of the consumers who pay the bills.”

This might have been an unusually eloquent articulation of Republicans’ punitive new approach to economic policy, but it is hardly unique to Ingraham.


Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is furious that Disney has publicly criticized his new law prohibiting classroom discussion of sexual orientation and gender identity (nicknamed the “Don’t Say Gay” law); beyond using his bully pulpit to rail against Disney’s supposed indecency, he has threatened to cancel Disney’s half-century-old special status under Florida law that enables the company to effectively govern itself on the grounds of its theme parks. Similarly, last year, DeSantis signed a (likely unconstitutional) law to punish tech companies for privately determined content-moderation decisions, and another law that fines private companies that attempt to set vaccination requirements in their workplaces.

In other states, such as Georgia, GOP politicians have punished private companies for taking supposedly “woke” stands on issues such as gun violence. Republicans in Congress have likewise tried to use antitrust enforcement and other government levers to punish companies whose public stances on voting rights or internal policies on content moderation they dislike.

This approach to governance was expertly modeled by Donald Trump, who as president frequently used the power of the state to reward friends and punish perceived political enemies.

He did this through tax law, tariff policy and other proposed subsidies that chose winners and losers according to their political allegiances. He selectively enforced energy policies, such as allowing offshore drilling, to dole out favors to friends. He allegedly attempted to block a government contract to Amazon because its founder, Jeff Bezos, owns The Post; he also tried to raise the prices the retail giant pays for U.S. Postal Service shipping. He launched a bogus antitrust investigation into car companies that had opposed his lax emissions standards. He threatened to revoke the “licenses” of broadcast media firms whose coverage he disliked.

And that’s not getting into all the times he tried to weaponize his presidency to prosecute or otherwise punish politicians and private citizens (rather than companies).

At the time, these behaviors might have seemed like an aberration from standard GOP rhetoric and policy, the ravings and abuses of a would-be authoritarian leader. Occasionally his fellow Republicans even called Trump out on these command-and-control, Soviet-style efforts to intervene in markets and curb free enterprise. Theirs, after all, is a party that spent years complaining about how Democrats had too often tried to rig marketplace rules to favor particular outcomes. (Recall the deluge of campaign ads about Solyndra.)

Beyond their halfhearted complaints, Trump’s fellow partisans did little to restrain him. Now his instincts have infected the rest of the right, from the Republicans in the federal government and Fox News on down.

This is far scarier than the “cancel culture” phenomenon Republicans so often decry.

Cancel culture, however ill-defined, generally refers to the use of voluntary social pressure to punish those whose views are deemed somehow unacceptable — through public rebukes, boycotts, shunnings, firings or other refusals to engage with some persona non grata in the public square. Republicans (like Democrats) have of course engaged in all these behaviors and worse: Trump himself frequently called for boycotts and firings, including over the peaceful expression of political speech.

But now his party is attempting codify these responses into law, using the power and weapons of the state against those who disagree with them.

Last fall, as this evolution of the Republican Party and its open warfare with the business community became increasingly apparent, I urged Democrats to take advantage — to position themselves as the new party of political and economic freedom and the rule of law, and to embrace the prosperity that such values can engender. Instead they have been letting their own populist instincts guide them toward rhetoric and policies that emphasize their own punitive treatment of disfavored companies.

It’s not too late for Democrats to correct course. Someone has to."
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

But the performative part was fine, right?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business ... nspection/

"Economic fallout worsened Thursday even as Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) moved incrementally to roll back new inspection rules for commercial trucks entering from Mexico, with some companies saying they aren’t able to fulfill orders because trucks are stuck in multi-mile backups at a number of entry points.

Little Bear Produce is a Texas-based grower-packer-shipper, farming 6,000 acres in Texas and supplementing its inventory with Mexican-grown produce so it can be a year-round supplier to major grocery chains such as Wegmans, H-E-B, Publix, Albertsons and Kroger.

Bret Erickson, senior vice president of business affairs for Little Bear, says the added inspections have cost it “hundreds of thousands of dollars” already, not to mention the reduced paychecks for many loaders who have had no work as trucks fail to show up.

“This has directly impacted our business since late last week. We would typically be receiving 10 to 12 loads of watermelon per day from Mexico, as well as different kinds of herbs and greens. Since the middle of last week, we have received zero of those shipments of watermelon,” Erickson said. That means the company did not meet its business obligations with major retailers, which have in turn had to find Mexican melons from farther away, such as from Arizona. Added distance means added fuel costs.

“We all know the cost of fuel these days is outrageous. Ultimately, it means consumers will bear the brunt of that increased cost,” Erickson said, adding that reduced supply overall also drives up prices.

“As a Texas business, we were really confused and disappointed by this decision by Gov. Abbott, in a state that touts itself as business-friendly,” he said. “This was a direct hit to Texas businesses, businesses that are already facing increasing costs in fuel, fertilizer, labor and packaging.”

In a sign of progress, Abbott held a news conference Wednesday with the governor of Nuevo León, Mexico, and said they had hashed out an agreement to lift the onerous additional inspections in that one area. And early Thursday evening, he followed with a news conference with the governor of Chihuahua to cement a similar deal. His intent, he said, was to lift cumbersome border inspections as the governor of each Mexican state that exports products through Texas ports of entry agreed to heightened security terms.

Abbott said that the governor of Tamaulipas had already contacted his office and that he would soon be meeting with the governor of Coahuila.

“I look forward to having the opportunity to meet with the governor from Tamaulipas, which may occur as soon as tomorrow, where we will be working to achieve similar results,” Abbott said. “Until those agreements can be achieved, however, the Texas Department of Public Safety will continue to thoroughly inspect all commercial vehicles entering into the United States and into the state of Texas from every Mexican state except Nuevo León and Chihuahua.”

Instituted in response to the Biden administration’s announcement that a pandemic-era impediment to immigration would be discontinued, Abbott’s state inspections caused thousands of trucks to back up for as much as eight miles at ports of entry. Trucks containing household goods, car parts and other shelf-stable goods have been delayed, tangling up supply chains that involve hundreds of thousands of jobs on both sides of the border. Multiday backups could lead much of the fruit and vegetable cargo to spoil, rendering it worthless.

Abbott, a two-term Republican up for reelection in November, has said he wants Mexican governors to reach individual agreements with him to increase safety inspection of trucks crossing the border.

“This is sending a message to both the president and Congress: Texas is tired of being the unloading dock for illegal immigrants crossing the border. The new unloading dock is going to be Washington, D.C.,” Abbott said Thursday in Chihuahua.

Many are not sanguine about what might come next.

“Yesterday’s circus with Gov. Abbott was just that: all show,” said Matt Mandel, vice president of finance for Sun Fed, a grower-shipper primarily of Mexican-grown fruits and vegetables. “The protests on the bridges ended and traffic started flowing again, albeit very slowly. It remains to be seen if the continued inspections create another scenario where the truckers refuse to work again.”

A statement from multiple Mexican agencies, including the Business Coordinating Council and the Confederation of Industrial Chambers of Mexico, pegs the losses at $8 million per day.

Dante Galeazzi, chief executive of the Texas International Produce Association, said consumers will start seeing empty store shelves this weekend in the fresh fruits and vegetables departments.

“Further, it will take at least a week if not longer after a resolution is in place before the supply chain can correct itself,” Galeazzi said. “That means outages will persist even beyond the time a solution is implemented.”

Losses associated with the remaining port of entry logjams depend on whether Abbott makes agreements with the other Mexican governors, said Lance Jungmeyer, president of the Fresh Produce Association of the Americas. The northeastern Mexican state of Tamaulipas is key, he said, because a majority of produce crosses the Rio Grande there via the Pharr-Reynosa International Bridge into Texas.

U.S. imports little from Ukraine and Russia, but food and farming costs are expected to rise

Jungmeyer said that as of the opening of Thursday’s business at Texas ports of entry, things still looked rough and that there were reports of “very slow traffic.”

Mexico’s National Chamber of Freight Transport, known as CANACAR, which represents Mexican trucking companies, said its members are losing millions of dollars per day because of delays at the border.

The chamber said the loss comes from a mix of noncompliance with contracts, perishable goods rotting in trucks, and materials that do not arrive in time for manufacture.

The most affected companies are those working with perishable goods and in automotive production, the chamber said.

“We are talking about 15 to 30 hours of waiting to cross. There are products that cannot be stopped for so long, that need a controlled temperature with an air conditioner that runs on diesel,” said a spokesman for the chamber who said he was not authorized to be quoted by name.

“But the most important thing is the inhumane conditions of the drivers and the issue of insecurity,” the spokesman said. “We already saw today the burned trailers. … The line of trucks grows and grows, and you are there, without being able to move, at 40 degrees [Celsius] without bathing, without resting, without security.”
CU88
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by CU88 »

April 17, 2022
Heather Cox Richardson
Apr 18

Today, political scientist and member of the Russian legislative body Vyacheslav Nikonov said, “in reality, we embody the forces of good in the modern world because this clash is metaphysical…. We are on the side of good against the forces of absolute evil…. This is truly a holy war that we’re waging, and we have to win it and of course we will because our cause is just. We have no other choice. Our cause is not only just, our cause is righteous and victory will certainly be ours.”

Nikonov was defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in which Russian troops have leveled cities, killed thousands, kidnapped children, and raped and tortured Ukrainian citizens.

The intellectual leap from committing war crimes to claiming to be on the side of good might be explained by an interview published in the New Statesman at the beginning of April. Speaking with former Portuguese secretary of state for European affairs Bruno Maçães, Sergey Karaganov, a former advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin, predicted the end of the western democracies that have shaped the world since World War II. Dictators, he suggested, will take over.

Democracy is failing and authoritarianism rising, Karaganov said, because of democracy’s bad moral foundations. As he put it: “Western civilisation has brought all of us great benefits, but now people like myself and others are questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation.”

Karaganov’s statement says a lot about why white evangelicals in the U.S. are willing to toss democracy overboard in favor of a one-party state dominated by one powerful leader. They deny the premise of a system in which all people are equal before the law and have the right to have a say in their government.

Putin cemented his rise to power in 2013 with antigay laws that supporters claimed defended conservative values against an assault of “genderless and fruitless so-called tolerance,” which “equals good and evil.” Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, an ally of Putin’s, has been open about his determination to replace the multiculturalism at the heart of democracy with Christian culture, stop the immigration that he believes undermines Hungarian culture, and reject “adaptable family models” for “the Christian family model.”

The American right has embraced this attack on our system. In October 2021, former vice president Mike Pence spoke in Budapest at a forum denouncing immigration and urging traditional social values, where he told the audience he hoped that the U.S. Supreme Court would soon outlaw abortion thanks to the three justices Trump put on the court. Next month, the American Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) will be held in Budapest, Hungary; Orbán will be the keynote speaker.

Increasingly, Republican lawmakers have called not for the U.S. government to leave business alone, as was their position under President Ronald Reagan, but to use government power to crack down on “woke” businesses they insist are undermining the policies they value—meaning companies that protect LGBTQ rights, racial justice, reproductive choice, and access to the ballot. In Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis and his supporters have threatened Disney for its mild defense of LGBTQ rights, insisting the company grooms children for sexual abuse, and Texas Republicans are considering barring local governments from doing business with any national company that provides abortion coverage for its employees.

To achieve such control in a country where they are a minority, they are skewing the electoral system to install a one-party government. Just like Orbán’s government in Hungary, and Putin’s in Russia, the one-party government they envision will benefit a very small group of wealthy people: witness the Russian oligarchs whose yachts worth hundreds of millions of dollars are being impounded all over the world. And, just like those governments, it will be overseen by a strongman, who will continue to insist that his opponents are immoral.

But here’s the thing:

Democracy is a moral position. Defending the right of human beings to control their own lives is a moral position. Treating everyone equally before the law is a moral position. Insisting that everyone has a right to have a say in their government is a moral position.

This moral position is hardly some newfangled radicalism. It is profoundly conservative. It is the fundamental principle on which our country has been based for almost 250 years.

In 1776, the nation’s Founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that all people “are created equal…[and] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness….” They asserted that governments are legitimate only if those they govern consent to them.

The Founders did not live these principles, of course; they preserved the racial, gender, and wealth inequality that enabled them to imagine a world in which white men of property were all equal.

But after World War II, Americans tried to bring these principles to life. It is this attempt for America to realize its ideals that the radicals on the right want to overturn.

After World War II, the Supreme Court began to insist that all Americans really do have a right to self-determination and that they must be treated equally before the law. Using the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee that no state can “deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” it began to upend longstanding racial, gender, class, and religious hierarchies.

It said, for example, that the promise of equality before the law meant that people of color had a right to a jury that was not made up exclusively of white people, that Black and Brown kids had a right to attend the same public schools as their white neighbors, and that white Americans could not kill or assault Black Americans without consequences.

It decided that states could not privilege one race or one religion over another and that people have the right to marry whom they wish, across racial and gender lines. It decided that people themselves, not the state, had a right to plan their families.

Then, to ensure that states were truly democratic, in 1965, Congress protected the right of all Americans to vote, giving them an equal say in their government and bringing to life the concept in the Declaration of Independence that governments are legitimate only when they derive their power from the consent of the governed.

Americans who had seen the horrors of the Holocaust—which was, after all, the logical and ultimate outcome of a society based on hierarchies—saw their defense of equality as a moral position. It recognizes the inherent worth of individuals without privileging one race, one gender, one religion, or the wealthy. It works to bring the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to life, stopping the violence that certain white Christian men in the past visited on those they could dominate with impunity.

Those radicals who are now taking away the right of self-determination, the right to equality before the law, and the right to vote because they are “questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation” are launching a fundamental attack on our nation.

In his day, responding to a similar attack, Abraham Lincoln noted that accepting the idea of inequality was an act of destruction that would “transform this Government into a government of some other form.”

Arguments based in the idea that some people are not capable of making their own decisions “are the arguments that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world,” Lincoln said in 1858. “I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it[,] where will it stop…. If that declaration is not the truth, let us get the Statute book, in which we find it and tear it out[.]”
by cradleandshoot » Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:57 am
Mr moderator, deactivate my account.
You have heck this forum up to making it nothing more than a joke. I hope you are happy.
This is cradle and shoot signing out.
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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cradleandshoot
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

CU88 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:09 am April 17, 2022
Heather Cox Richardson
Apr 18

Today, political scientist and member of the Russian legislative body Vyacheslav Nikonov said, “in reality, we embody the forces of good in the modern world because this clash is metaphysical…. We are on the side of good against the forces of absolute evil…. This is truly a holy war that we’re waging, and we have to win it and of course we will because our cause is just. We have no other choice. Our cause is not only just, our cause is righteous and victory will certainly be ours.”

Nikonov was defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in which Russian troops have leveled cities, killed thousands, kidnapped children, and raped and tortured Ukrainian citizens.

The intellectual leap from committing war crimes to claiming to be on the side of good might be explained by an interview published in the New Statesman at the beginning of April. Speaking with former Portuguese secretary of state for European affairs Bruno Maçães, Sergey Karaganov, a former advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin, predicted the end of the western democracies that have shaped the world since World War II. Dictators, he suggested, will take over.

Democracy is failing and authoritarianism rising, Karaganov said, because of democracy’s bad moral foundations. As he put it: “Western civilisation has brought all of us great benefits, but now people like myself and others are questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation.”

Karaganov’s statement says a lot about why white evangelicals in the U.S. are willing to toss democracy overboard in favor of a one-party state dominated by one powerful leader. They deny the premise of a system in which all people are equal before the law and have the right to have a say in their government.

Putin cemented his rise to power in 2013 with antigay laws that supporters claimed defended conservative values against an assault of “genderless and fruitless so-called tolerance,” which “equals good and evil.” Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, an ally of Putin’s, has been open about his determination to replace the multiculturalism at the heart of democracy with Christian culture, stop the immigration that he believes undermines Hungarian culture, and reject “adaptable family models” for “the Christian family model.”

The American right has embraced this attack on our system. In October 2021, former vice president Mike Pence spoke in Budapest at a forum denouncing immigration and urging traditional social values, where he told the audience he hoped that the U.S. Supreme Court would soon outlaw abortion thanks to the three justices Trump put on the court. Next month, the American Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) will be held in Budapest, Hungary; Orbán will be the keynote speaker.

Increasingly, Republican lawmakers have called not for the U.S. government to leave business alone, as was their position under President Ronald Reagan, but to use government power to crack down on “woke” businesses they insist are undermining the policies they value—meaning companies that protect LGBTQ rights, racial justice, reproductive choice, and access to the ballot. In Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis and his supporters have threatened Disney for its mild defense of LGBTQ rights, insisting the company grooms children for sexual abuse, and Texas Republicans are considering barring local governments from doing business with any national company that provides abortion coverage for its employees.

To achieve such control in a country where they are a minority, they are skewing the electoral system to install a one-party government. Just like Orbán’s government in Hungary, and Putin’s in Russia, the one-party government they envision will benefit a very small group of wealthy people: witness the Russian oligarchs whose yachts worth hundreds of millions of dollars are being impounded all over the world. And, just like those governments, it will be overseen by a strongman, who will continue to insist that his opponents are immoral.

But here’s the thing:

Democracy is a moral position. Defending the right of human beings to control their own lives is a moral position. Treating everyone equally before the law is a moral position. Insisting that everyone has a right to have a say in their government is a moral position.

This moral position is hardly some newfangled radicalism. It is profoundly conservative. It is the fundamental principle on which our country has been based for almost 250 years.

In 1776, the nation’s Founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that all people “are created equal…[and] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness….” They asserted that governments are legitimate only if those they govern consent to them.

The Founders did not live these principles, of course; they preserved the racial, gender, and wealth inequality that enabled them to imagine a world in which white men of property were all equal.

But after World War II, Americans tried to bring these principles to life. It is this attempt for America to realize its ideals that the radicals on the right want to overturn.

After World War II, the Supreme Court began to insist that all Americans really do have a right to self-determination and that they must be treated equally before the law. Using the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee that no state can “deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” it began to upend longstanding racial, gender, class, and religious hierarchies.

It said, for example, that the promise of equality before the law meant that people of color had a right to a jury that was not made up exclusively of white people, that Black and Brown kids had a right to attend the same public schools as their white neighbors, and that white Americans could not kill or assault Black Americans without consequences.

It decided that states could not privilege one race or one religion over another and that people have the right to marry whom they wish, across racial and gender lines. It decided that people themselves, not the state, had a right to plan their families.

Then, to ensure that states were truly democratic, in 1965, Congress protected the right of all Americans to vote, giving them an equal say in their government and bringing to life the concept in the Declaration of Independence that governments are legitimate only when they derive their power from the consent of the governed.

Americans who had seen the horrors of the Holocaust—which was, after all, the logical and ultimate outcome of a society based on hierarchies—saw their defense of equality as a moral position. It recognizes the inherent worth of individuals without privileging one race, one gender, one religion, or the wealthy. It works to bring the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to life, stopping the violence that certain white Christian men in the past visited on those they could dominate with impunity.

Those radicals who are now taking away the right of self-determination, the right to equality before the law, and the right to vote because they are “questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation” are launching a fundamental attack on our nation.

In his day, responding to a similar attack, Abraham Lincoln noted that accepting the idea of inequality was an act of destruction that would “transform this Government into a government of some other form.”

Arguments based in the idea that some people are not capable of making their own decisions “are the arguments that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world,” Lincoln said in 1858. “I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it[,] where will it stop…. If that declaration is not the truth, let us get the Statute book, in which we find it and tear it out[.]”
My bad, the HCR flp bullchit made me delete your claptrap before I read a single word.. damn me...
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:31 am
CU88 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 7:09 am April 17, 2022
Heather Cox Richardson
Apr 18

Today, political scientist and member of the Russian legislative body Vyacheslav Nikonov said, “in reality, we embody the forces of good in the modern world because this clash is metaphysical…. We are on the side of good against the forces of absolute evil…. This is truly a holy war that we’re waging, and we have to win it and of course we will because our cause is just. We have no other choice. Our cause is not only just, our cause is righteous and victory will certainly be ours.”

Nikonov was defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in which Russian troops have leveled cities, killed thousands, kidnapped children, and raped and tortured Ukrainian citizens.

The intellectual leap from committing war crimes to claiming to be on the side of good might be explained by an interview published in the New Statesman at the beginning of April. Speaking with former Portuguese secretary of state for European affairs Bruno Maçães, Sergey Karaganov, a former advisor to Russian president Vladimir Putin, predicted the end of the western democracies that have shaped the world since World War II. Dictators, he suggested, will take over.

Democracy is failing and authoritarianism rising, Karaganov said, because of democracy’s bad moral foundations. As he put it: “Western civilisation has brought all of us great benefits, but now people like myself and others are questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation.”

Karaganov’s statement says a lot about why white evangelicals in the U.S. are willing to toss democracy overboard in favor of a one-party state dominated by one powerful leader. They deny the premise of a system in which all people are equal before the law and have the right to have a say in their government.

Putin cemented his rise to power in 2013 with antigay laws that supporters claimed defended conservative values against an assault of “genderless and fruitless so-called tolerance,” which “equals good and evil.” Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, an ally of Putin’s, has been open about his determination to replace the multiculturalism at the heart of democracy with Christian culture, stop the immigration that he believes undermines Hungarian culture, and reject “adaptable family models” for “the Christian family model.”

The American right has embraced this attack on our system. In October 2021, former vice president Mike Pence spoke in Budapest at a forum denouncing immigration and urging traditional social values, where he told the audience he hoped that the U.S. Supreme Court would soon outlaw abortion thanks to the three justices Trump put on the court. Next month, the American Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) will be held in Budapest, Hungary; Orbán will be the keynote speaker.

Increasingly, Republican lawmakers have called not for the U.S. government to leave business alone, as was their position under President Ronald Reagan, but to use government power to crack down on “woke” businesses they insist are undermining the policies they value—meaning companies that protect LGBTQ rights, racial justice, reproductive choice, and access to the ballot. In Florida, Governor Ron DeSantis and his supporters have threatened Disney for its mild defense of LGBTQ rights, insisting the company grooms children for sexual abuse, and Texas Republicans are considering barring local governments from doing business with any national company that provides abortion coverage for its employees.

To achieve such control in a country where they are a minority, they are skewing the electoral system to install a one-party government. Just like Orbán’s government in Hungary, and Putin’s in Russia, the one-party government they envision will benefit a very small group of wealthy people: witness the Russian oligarchs whose yachts worth hundreds of millions of dollars are being impounded all over the world. And, just like those governments, it will be overseen by a strongman, who will continue to insist that his opponents are immoral.

But here’s the thing:

Democracy is a moral position. Defending the right of human beings to control their own lives is a moral position. Treating everyone equally before the law is a moral position. Insisting that everyone has a right to have a say in their government is a moral position.

This moral position is hardly some newfangled radicalism. It is profoundly conservative. It is the fundamental principle on which our country has been based for almost 250 years.

In 1776, the nation’s Founders wrote in the Declaration of Independence that all people “are created equal…[and] are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness….” They asserted that governments are legitimate only if those they govern consent to them.

The Founders did not live these principles, of course; they preserved the racial, gender, and wealth inequality that enabled them to imagine a world in which white men of property were all equal.

But after World War II, Americans tried to bring these principles to life. It is this attempt for America to realize its ideals that the radicals on the right want to overturn.

After World War II, the Supreme Court began to insist that all Americans really do have a right to self-determination and that they must be treated equally before the law. Using the Fourteenth Amendment’s guarantee that no state can “deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws,” it began to upend longstanding racial, gender, class, and religious hierarchies.

It said, for example, that the promise of equality before the law meant that people of color had a right to a jury that was not made up exclusively of white people, that Black and Brown kids had a right to attend the same public schools as their white neighbors, and that white Americans could not kill or assault Black Americans without consequences.

It decided that states could not privilege one race or one religion over another and that people have the right to marry whom they wish, across racial and gender lines. It decided that people themselves, not the state, had a right to plan their families.

Then, to ensure that states were truly democratic, in 1965, Congress protected the right of all Americans to vote, giving them an equal say in their government and bringing to life the concept in the Declaration of Independence that governments are legitimate only when they derive their power from the consent of the governed.

Americans who had seen the horrors of the Holocaust—which was, after all, the logical and ultimate outcome of a society based on hierarchies—saw their defense of equality as a moral position. It recognizes the inherent worth of individuals without privileging one race, one gender, one religion, or the wealthy. It works to bring the principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution to life, stopping the violence that certain white Christian men in the past visited on those they could dominate with impunity.

Those radicals who are now taking away the right of self-determination, the right to equality before the law, and the right to vote because they are “questioning the moral foundation of Western civilisation” are launching a fundamental attack on our nation.

In his day, responding to a similar attack, Abraham Lincoln noted that accepting the idea of inequality was an act of destruction that would “transform this Government into a government of some other form.”

Arguments based in the idea that some people are not capable of making their own decisions “are the arguments that kings have made for enslaving the people in all ages of the world,” Lincoln said in 1858. “I should like to know if taking this old Declaration of Independence, which declares that all men are equal upon principle and making exceptions to it[,] where will it stop…. If that declaration is not the truth, let us get the Statute book, in which we find it and tear it out[.]”
My bad, the HCR flp bullchit made me delete your claptrap before I read a single word.. damn me...



I really want to understand why these people like Heather, who used to be so desirous of being taken seriously, easily morph into total hyper partisan caricatures. Is the big money being a clown, or does her tenure mean she can’t be fired so she’ll always have a pension income regardless how loony she gets?

Here she leaps from an initial sobering thought on Russia to ‘Republicans bad’ in the space of a minute, while trying to reclaim the Constitution, a legal framework her party has been trying to disavow for eight decades and longer.

Meanwhile, what Heather’s Democrats do when the race is tight:

https://www.thecity.nyc/politics/2022/4 ... challenges
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14476
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
Nothing "typical " here MD. HCR is a blithering FLP moronic idiot. The fair analysis of the challenge we face is that some of you folks idiolize the ignorance espounced by a dumbass such as HCR. She is quoted here in this forum as if she was knew what she was talking about. HCR is like Viagra to some of you folks.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:49 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
Nothing "typical " here MD. HCR is a blithering FLP moronic idiot. The fair analysis of the challenge we face is that some of you folks idiolize the ignorance espounced by a dumbass such as HCR. She is quoted here in this forum as if she was knew what she was talking about. HCR is like Viagra to some of you folks.
The reaction was your not bothering to read it. Typical.
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cradleandshoot
Posts: 14476
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by cradleandshoot »

MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:52 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:49 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
Nothing "typical " here MD. HCR is a blithering FLP moronic idiot. The fair analysis of the challenge we face is that some of you folks idiolize the ignorance espounced by a dumbass such as HCR. She is quoted here in this forum as if she was knew what she was talking about. HCR is like Viagra to some of you folks.
The reaction was your not bothering to read it. Typical.
My reaction Scooter pie is I have wasted more than enough of my time reading the horsechit she has to say from many links posted here by our fellow FLP friends over many months. Reading any horsechit HCR has to say became an industrial strength waste of my time a long time ago. Knock yourself the eff out I'm willing to delegate you as my representative for reading and swallowing every single bit of FLP tripe she wants to write. In that regard I find you very highly qualified. I feel a little guilty putting such a huge responsibility on your shoulders. I know your up to the challenge.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
Peter Brown
Posts: 12878
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by Peter Brown »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:09 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:52 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:49 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
Nothing "typical " here MD. HCR is a blithering FLP moronic idiot. The fair analysis of the challenge we face is that some of you folks idiolize the ignorance espounced by a dumbass such as HCR. She is quoted here in this forum as if she was knew what she was talking about. HCR is like Viagra to some of you folks.
The reaction was your not bothering to read it. Typical.
My reaction Scooter pie is I have wasted more than enough of my time reading the horsechit she has to say from many links posted here by our fellow FLP friends over many months. Reading any horsechit HCR has to say became an industrial strength waste of my time a long time ago. Knock yourself the eff out I'm willing to delegate you as my representative for reading and swallowing every single bit of FLP tripe she wants to write. In that regard I find you very highly qualified. I feel a little guilty putting such a huge responsibility on your shoulders. I know your up to the challenge.



It honestly doesn’t matter to the FLP faithful if Heather pens her nonsense from inside a locked door insane asylum. They’ll obediently regurgitate it like it’s the Sermon on the flipping Mount. The FLP need reassuring linguistic sustenance, no different than singing a baby to sleep with a cozy lullaby.
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MDlaxfan76
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Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:40 pm

Re: Conservative Ideology

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:09 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:52 am
cradleandshoot wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:49 am
MDlaxfan76 wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:33 am CU88, thank for sharing that opinion piece.

IMO, it's a fair analysis of the challenge we face, as is the typical reaction it generated here.
Nothing "typical " here MD. HCR is a blithering FLP moronic idiot. The fair analysis of the challenge we face is that some of you folks idiolize the ignorance espounced by a dumbass such as HCR. She is quoted here in this forum as if she was knew what she was talking about. HCR is like Viagra to some of you folks.
The reaction was your not bothering to read it. Typical.
My reaction Scooter pie is I have wasted more than enough of my time reading the horsechit she has to say from many links posted here by our fellow FLP friends over many months. Reading any horsechit HCR has to say became an industrial strength waste of my time a long time ago. Knock yourself the eff out I'm willing to delegate you as my representative for reading and swallowing every single bit of FLP tripe she wants to write. In that regard I find you very highly qualified. I feel a little guilty putting such a huge responsibility on your shoulders. I know your up to the challenge.
As I said, typical.

You respond exactly the same way to any post over a few paragraphs from a poster/author with whom you assume you will disagree. Never a word of counter analysis, just calling it "horsechit" and "FLP".

So, "typical" for you.

So, too was Petey's "squirrel" response.

And yeah, I find those "typical" responses to be part of the challenge we, as a nation, face in preserving democracy.
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