Hobart 2022

[Farfromgeneva]

Stats don’t matter big picture but as an aside, Archer has an outside chance of being the Hobart D1 career points leader. He’s 29 behind Aslanian at 163 to 192. On a 5.5/Gm pace on the season. So with four reg season games left he’s probably good for 15-30pts, my guess is around 20. If we miraculously got into the NEC playoffs w expulsion hve 1-2 more games.

Small consolation unless we pulled off a miracle run of 6 straight which I’m not betting much of my personal cheddar on but it’s not inconceivable.

Only worth pointing out because he was under appreciated as a secondary option. In his first two seasons when he put up 75pts in his FR and Soph years of 18-19 (32 & 43) but was like the 4th or 5th scoring option folks takes about others. The 20-21 seasons were so choppy due to Covid and even this year is only 11 reg season games vs a historical typical 14 but he’s been pretty potent without much to show for it unfortunately.

Alex Love is saying “hold me beer” as he reads this…

[catchnshoot]

Agree with FL-GO, was not expecting to be worried about a game with Wagner at this point.
But the fact is that this team can’t look past anybody. They are simply not good enough by any measure.
As I think back on it we’ve had more than our share of struggles with Wagner teams much weaker than the current group of Seahawks.
I think the single worst game of D 1 lacrosse I’ve ever seen was sitting in the stands in Staten Island in 2015 a game Hobart ended up winning in OT. Both teams were terrible that day
The ball is as in the ground more than it was in players sticks.
Coach Raymond had no answers to turn the tide against a really weak Wagner squad.
We’ve had several more OT games with them since.

Lots of posts about the players that are coming up the next few years , but it seems to me that we need a significantly different offensive plan.
The offense sets just do not create enough opportunities
And we don’t have enough horses that can create on their own.

[man-down]

A few times this season Archer has run hard across the top to his left and has brought his guy with him and forced a second d-middie to follow him and he has dumped the ball back to the right to a trailing middie (like Chad) who then has a wide open shooting (or dodging) lane. Seems elementary but we don't see it very often.

As for feeders and cutters and off-ball movers, I know the coaches rely on what they see in practice but some of these guys may need a run with the first string guys to show what they can do (rather than just running with the scout team guys who might be playing tight because they are so scared of making a mistake). Ward (with a little 2-man at X to help him get free to feed) to Rosa, Archer, Mott, Madonna, Bach or Detallis (all of whom can catch and finish) might work and could open things up for Herlihy and other cannons up top. But a variety of guys need to be on the field to see if it will work.

[Laxgunea]

But a variety of guys need to be on the field to see if it will work.

Couldn't agree more. Now we have a problem: do with stick with what worked 6 weeks ago, or do we try new things? I say give some guys a run.
Also, your comment about "... who might be playing tight because they are so scared of making a mistake" is really important. Coaches have to address this head-on. Everyone out there has to be playing without fear. I completely understand what Raymond means by "execution," but I have wondered if the players understand "execution" to mean "don't make a mistake.'

[FMUBart]

A few times this season Archer has run hard across the top to his left and has brought his guy with him and forced a second d-middie to follow him and he has dumped the ball back to the right to a trailing middie (like Chad) who then has a wide open shooting (or dodging) lane. Seems elementary but we don't see it very often.

As for feeders and cutters and off-ball movers, I know the coaches rely on what they see in practice but some of these guys may need a run with the first string guys to show what they can do (rather than just running with the scout team guys who might be playing tight because they are so scared of making a mistake). Ward (with a little 2-man at X to help him get free to feed) to Rosa, Archer, Mott, Madonna, Bach or Detallis (all of whom can catch and finish) might work and could open things up for Herlihy and other cannons up top. But a variety of guys need to be on the field to see if it will work.

Agree with this sentiment, say what you will, but lacrosse is still draw and dump. Hard to jam the ball inside consistently if it isn't against the "2" slide. I remember wathcing Hobart/SU years ago and thinking: it's gonna be a long day for us, as no one can beat their man 1 v 1. Would love to see more 2 man offensive, big/little plays as a way of creating separation-either from the wings or behind, but not up top. That outside-in pass from up top to the crease is rarely effective other than sometimes when man up.

[cooperstef]

Is this team achieving to its potential? No. Is the season over? No. Has there been one outstanding weakness killing this team week in and week out? No. The season is long and there are a ton of ups and downs. To the people who are calling to play more guys; do you really think that the coaching staff would purposely run a shorter bench if they thought that the other legs could help them? No. Guys might not be ready. I understand that this isn't the ACC but, for the most part year in and year out the NEC is competitive in conference. If there are guys not showing out in practice then there is no reason to think they could do that against an opponent in these tight conference games. "Player X looked great against Canisius. Where is he?" Is a stupid comment in my opinion, and I have a pro Canisius bias. I understand that people are currently frustrated but in reality the 3 and 4 spot in the tournament is largely up for grabs. Many thought the NEC tournament had a good chance to run through Geneva but it didn't happen. The Teams preseason goals are still there for the taking I am assuming. I must've missed when we won the regular season in 2017 and they automatically put us into the NCAA tournament for a great regular season. Adversity is a cornerstone to success. If this team can bounce back and play the lacrosse they are capable of in the next four games watch out. One week at a time but I truly believe it is extremely difficult to beat a team twice. Win this weekend, gain momentum and get the boys rolling. Hobart is always best off being the hungry dog at the bottom of the hill. I understand many of you reminisce on the era of nonstop D3 National Championships and I applaud you for that. You are the reason Hobart plays at the division 1 level. The reality is that Hobart of the D1 ERA needs to realize they haven't done anything special. Are we a storied lacrosse program, yes. Are we a storied division 1 program, no. Underdog mentality, prove to the rest of the league and D1 onlookers that the past month was not what this team is and that they have a ton left to prove and accomplish.

[Laxfan1234]

In all sincerity cooperstef, I appreciate your comments and you bring up many fair points. That being said, my response would be the following:

Is this team achieving to its potential? No. Is the season over? No.

Completely agree.

Has there been one outstanding weakness killing this team week in and week out? No.

No there hasn't been...that is what is so perplexing to many. I wish there was one glaring issue that could be remedied. Instead I am left contemplating the following:
Why was the defense able to limit Cornell's to 4 pts in the first half of there game but give up 11 pts in the second? (loss)
How does the offense average 14 pts per game vs 3 ranked teams (Lehigh, Cornell, Syracuse) and manage just 8 vs SHU? (conference loss)
Why was the defense able to limit Bryant to 3 pts in the first half of there game but give up 11 pts in the second? (conference loss)
Why was the offense able to score 5 goals and 6 goals respectively in quarters 1 and 3 vs Saint Joes but failed to score in the 2nd qtr and only scored once in the 4th qtr? (conference loss)

To the people who are calling to play more guys; do you really think that the coaching staff would purposely run a shorter bench if they thought that the other legs could help them? No. Guys might not be ready.

The team's record is 2W - 5L and they are 0W - 3L in a conference (with 8 teams). As others have said, you are what your record is. I am a big supporter of this coaching staff, that being said the bench could not be any SHORTER if they tried. I do not believe that there are 30-40 players week in and week out that are simply "not ready" or have played so poorly in practice that they couldn't contribute in some meaningful manner should an opportunity present itself.

I understand that this isn't the ACC but, for the most part year in and year out the NEC is competitive in conference. If there are guys not showing out in practice then there is no reason to think they could do that against an opponent in these tight conference games. "Player X looked great against Canisius. Where is he?" Is a stupid comment in my opinion, and I have a pro Canisius bias.

Agree it's not the ACC. Agreed the NEC is competitive. I must have missed the comment about playing vs Canisius. I agree, in context, that is a silly comment. But I also understand that if 60+% of next years roster's "real" game experience might be versus Canisius.

I understand that people are currently frustrated but in reality the 3 and 4 spot in the tournament is largely up for grabs.

True but Hobart must win ALL of its remaining games to secure a spot in the tournament.

Many thought the NEC tournament had a good chance to run through Geneva but it didn't happen. The Teams preseason goals are still there for the taking I am assuming. I must've missed when we won the regular season in 2017 and they automatically put us into the NCAA tournament for a great regular season. Adversity is a cornerstone to success. If this team can bounce back and play the lacrosse they are capable of in the next four games watch out. One week at a time but I truly believe it is extremely difficult to beat a team twice. Win this weekend, gain momentum and get the boys rolling. Hobart is always best off being the hungry dog at the bottom of the hill. I understand many of you reminisce on the era of nonstop D3 National Championships and I applaud you for that. You are the reason Hobart plays at the division 1 level. The reality is that Hobart of the D1 ERA needs to realize they haven't done anything special. Are we a storied lacrosse program, yes. Are we a storied division 1 program, no. Underdog mentality, prove to the rest of the league and D1 onlookers that the past month was not what this team is and that they have a ton left to prove and accomplish.

I appreciate the passion in this last comment. I don't really have anything to add. I do hope the team is able to win this weekend and make the conference tournament. If they don't for some reason, I hope the coaching staff figures out a way to use the remainder of the season to improve the team's chances in 2023.

[oldbartman]

Completely agree with LF1234's comment regarding the bench. After having played 7 games, do we only have 18-20 players ready to contribute in a game? What happened to player development. A lasting question is when will the coaching staff take responsibility for making some outright stupid in game decisions? There is talent on this team as we have witnessed. There is also talent on the coaching staff. It's getting pretty late in the season. Time to get it figured out.

[Bart]

The team's record is 2W - 5L and they are 0W - 3L in a conference (with 8 teams). As others have said, you are what your record is. I am a big supporter of this coaching staff, that being said the bench could not be any SHORTER if they tried. I do not believe that there are 30-40 players week in and week out that are simply "not ready" or have played so poorly in practice that they couldn't contribute in some meaningful manner should an opportunity present itself.

Sorry but it appears so. The people who are at practice week in and week out, who evaluate the players week in and week out have a short bench at this point. They are playing the players who they think give them the best chance of winning. They are playing those kids they seem to think are ready to execute the plan (agree with it or not) that they have right now.

Are we to honestly believe that after all fall and this far into the season these coaches do not have a handle of the talent they have on their roster? That they have yet to spot the diamond in the rough at this point? My guess is that every kid on that roster is working to the best of their abilities right now and playing time has shaken out to what it is after months of watching these athletes compete every day.

[FMUBart]

Agree with the recent comments, I'm just not convinced the talent level is as high as many believe. Again, Hobart's top 10-12 are mostly solid(not a fan of the ssdm's) but the talent drop off is pretty extreme when the backups are in there. I do not want to minimize the difficulty in recruiting, but we should be able to grab 6-8 guys a year that can help--that equates to 25+ guys(after 4 years) that are competing for playing time and making practice that much more intense...like it should be. The guys in the championship era will ALL tell you that practices were war & often more intense than many of the games..

[Laxbuck]

Is this team achieving to its potential? No. Is the season over? No. Has there been one outstanding weakness killing this team week in and week out? No. The season is long and there are a ton of ups and downs. To the people who are calling to play more guys; do you really think that the coaching staff would purposely run a shorter bench if they thought that the other legs could help them? No. Guys might not be ready. I understand that this isn't the ACC but, for the most part year in and year out the NEC is competitive in conference. If there are guys not showing out in practice then there is no reason to think they could do that against an opponent in these tight conference games. "Player X looked great against Canisius. Where is he?" Is a stupid comment in my opinion, and I have a pro Canisius bias. I understand that people are currently frustrated but in reality the 3 and 4 spot in the tournament is largely up for grabs. Many thought the NEC tournament had a good chance to run through Geneva but it didn't happen. The Teams preseason goals are still there for the taking I am assuming. I must've missed when we won the regular season in 2017 and they automatically put us into the NCAA tournament for a great regular season. Adversity is a cornerstone to success. If this team can bounce back and play the lacrosse they are capable of in the next four games watch out. One week at a time but I truly believe it is extremely difficult to beat a team twice. Win this weekend, gain momentum and get the boys rolling. Hobart is always best off being the hungry dog at the bottom of the hill. I understand many of you reminisce on the era of nonstop D3 National Championships and I applaud you for that. You are the reason Hobart plays at the division 1 level. The reality is that Hobart of the D1 ERA needs to realize they haven't done anything special. Are we a storied lacrosse program, yes. Are we a storied division 1 program, no. Underdog mentality, prove to the rest of the league and D1 onlookers that the past month was not what this team is and that they have a ton left to prove and accomplish.

Defensive efficiency indicates there is a primary reason for the 2-5 record

[Laxgunea]

Some of the short bench is obviously due to injury. Who's been injured this season at some point? Romm, Barthelme, Madonna, Datillas, Bach, Balzer, Herlihy ... other guys are nursing injuries. All teams have injuries, but Hobart has had a really tough year.
But more to the point, no one is saying the coaches are purposely playing a short bench just because they feel like it. What people are trying to do is figure out what the coaches are thinking. Some of it goes back a few years and the pattern of playing a much shorter bench after the first few games. That seems to have been a pattern with this coaching staff, like it or not.
BTW, it is not like people are clamoring to replace the players out there ... it is more like some of us are wondering what happened to the guys who could come in to give some of the mainstays a breather. Why wonder this? Because at times things fall apart, get stale, slow down, break down. It is reasonable to ask if it is fatigue, or if new blood could shake things up by breaking the pattern a bit.
And just to say it again, the team provokes the questions because they show themselves able to light up opponents from time to time too. Jeez ... just trying to figure out a team that has peaks and valleys like the Himalayas.
I'm looking forward to a 4 quarter game on Saturday. If they can't string 4 quarters together , then the question will remain.

[catchnshoot]

I’m glad to see Coop still has the passion he had when he was playing. Almost everyone on this thread is on here because we are supporters of Hobart lacrosse .
There are a few counterpoints To Coops thoughts that I would offer.
First it’s not a long season only 12 games, and by the way that short season is 2/3 over . so there is an extremely short period of time to right the ship and only a slim chance of making the NEC tourney.
We have the worst overall record in the conference , paired with the worst record in conference; a double bogey at best.
We have already lost to the two best teams in the league along with SHU who is clearly more likely than Hobart to be the 3/4 seed.
Wagner is much improved and Liu, Merrimack and MSM are not going to lay down for the Statesmen.
As has been said before you are what your record says you are.
These truths must definitely be a disappointment for even the most ardent fan.
Second you point out there is not a glaring deficiency, which in reality is too bad . Because a single glaring deficiency you can generally cure with new personnel or tactic changes. The fact that this team or any organization is underperforming on a consistent level points to a much bigger problem.
Since fish rots from the head you can generally look at the management or coaching staff as a start.
As I’ve said before this is D1 lacrosse only the best play on Saturday and that’s how it should be . But with that said then this issue must lie in the coaching and player development . there are 45-50 guys on the sideline and only about 15 or do really play any meaningful minutes. You can make all the excuses you want but we must have a recruiting/ development issue because the teams beating Hobart are relatively in the same boat as we are and they are producing results.
Agree it’s hard to beat teams twice in a season but losing games you were clearly in position to win , leaves scars . The boys were clearly in the drivers seat in SHU and Bryant and folded.
I’ll give a pass on SJU and Cornell because I think they are just a better teams.
The next few games will scream volumes about this program.
Hopefully they can regroup and get it right.
But this level on mediocrity all across the field is glaring.

[oldbartman]

This short bench circles back to what a few others as well as myself have been wondering.....what is going on with player development. Are the guys on the long end of the bench just failing to improve after arrival? Extra wall ball always helps, but it isn't the only solution.

[FMUBart]

I don't think this team's poor record is on anyone/thing in particular...coaches, players, injuries.. IMHO, Hobart doesn't have the talent week in/week out to play top level teams. Sure, they'll beat comparable teams, and every so often pull off an upset. Net net, the coaches are playing the guys they have. Those D3 championship teams were among the best lacrosse teams in the country(any division), why? Incredibly deep talent and a B team to boot! As this year's injuries suggest, we are far too thin when any starter goes down. Not sure why/how Bryant & St Joes are able to gather deeper talent? Perhaps the addition of scholarships will give us 1 more guy each year--that could very well be the difference!

[oldbartman]

https://hwsathletics.com/podcasts/hobar ... sode-40/52

For what it's worth.

[Bart]

I don't think this team's poor record is on anyone/thing in particular...coaches, players, injuries.. IMHO, Hobart doesn't have the talent week in/week out to play top level teams. Sure, they'll beat comparable teams, and every so often pull off an upset. Net net, the coaches are playing the guys they have. Those D3 championship teams were among the best lacrosse teams in the country(any division), why? Incredibly deep talent and a B team to boot! As this year's injuries suggest, we are far too thin when any starter goes down. Not sure why/how Bryant & St Joes are able to gather deeper talent? Perhaps the addition of scholarships will give us 1 more guy each year--that could very well be the difference!

You hit something...the B team. Bring back coach Mac!

That aside, the paradigm shifted then the went D1. The then coach indicated that shift resulted in them carrying more kids on the roster but doing away with the B team. If you truly want to develop younger players this one way to do it...create a Junior Varsity. Wont happen as it would take a complete shift in the paradigm of how you run your program (not to mention considerable cash). But having a B team gives the "long" end of the bench meaningful reps in their own practice and allows them meaningful time in their own games. Would be most beneficial for fall ball having this team travel to its own play dates as they could be D1 or D2 or D3...lots of those types of teams around. The added benefit is the competition to "make" the varsity. Again, wont happen.

So you are stuck with what you have.

[FL-GO]

https://hwsathletics.com/podcasts/hobar ... sode-40/52

For what it's worth.

Ted did a nice job bringing in some relevant stats to the table. Still the same old, same old from Raymond though. The last time I was at the Boz for a lax game was back in 2015 when we barely beat Wagner, 7-6 in OT. Have a feeling it could be one of those games again Saturday.

[oldbartman]

Coach Raymond talked about Wagner having some big and not so slow D-men along with a good goalie (verified by other sources as well as his GAA & save %). They also have 2-3 guys who can score. I would hope we have the talent and effort to counteract those factors and come out with the "W". Though this teams proclivity to play down to the supposedly lesser ranked competition has me very nervous.

[catchnshoot]

I thought the statement about the “leadership council “not leading was telling, last podcast he was singing their praises.
Good point about all the injuries , I keep reading we upgraded the sports medicine and strength staff , yet we are loaded with injured players.
We used to have a lot of leg / ankle injuries from indoor practice in the field house
But that excuse is gone with the Poole dome.
What’s going on?

Definitely cannot take Wagner lightly after watching them last week.