Tiers in addition to Polls

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tiers are subjective.
Fixed that for you.

Lay yours out for us, D. Join the fun.

[DMac]

Not a polls guy, mean pretty much jack to me.
Lotta discussion for nothing, I just like the games one at a time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMeskvDHKgo

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Not a polls guy, mean pretty much jack to me.
Lotta discussion for nothing, I just like the games one at a time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMeskvDHKgo

Welp—every party needs a pooper.

[wlaxphan20]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

If I were to sit down and do this I'd probably have to add a tier or two or make subdivisions for tiers

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

If I were to sit down and do this I'd probably have to add a tier or two or make subdivisions for tiers

Yes! Please do.

[cltlax]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

If I were to sit down and do this I'd probably have to add a tier or two or make subdivisions for tiers

What about 25 tiers with one team per tier?

[wlaxphan20]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

If I were to sit down and do this I'd probably have to add a tier or two or make subdivisions for tiers

What about 25 tiers with one team per tier?

Knowing myself, that’s probably how it would end up. Full circle

[Dr. Tact]

Tier 1 - NC, BC.

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Denver, Stony Brook.

Tier 3 - Loyola, Princeton, Rutgers, JMU, Maryland, Florida, Colorado, Stanford, USC.

Tier 4 - Michigan, Virginia, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Army, Ohio St, Penn St, UMass, Vandy, UConn, Jacksonville, Navy, Richmond, JHU, Temple, St Joe’s.

Tier 5 - The rest

I still dont see Duke or Denver ahead of Loyola (or Princeton).

It’s certainly debatable. My rationale is that both Loyola and Princeton have underachieved in games at certain points. Up to this point, Duke and Denver have beaten the teams they were supposed to beat. It’s not an exact science but I prefer the fluidity of the tiers system.

Beat who they were supposed to beat...that is Loyola....if you recall, Cuse was #4 and Loyola was #6. So a 1 goal loss to the #4 team is their only mark. Yes, they played a lot of subs in less tough games, but they still beat who they were supposed to. Beat ranked Penn, Princeton, Florida, and NR Penn St....Its not a stretch that they will end the season 16-1 with that one "good" loss.

OTOH, Duke's quality wins are Penn, ND. Tight wins against teams they should have beat relatively easily - Liberty (8-7), Pitt (15-14).

Duke's SOS is 34th, Loyola 17th. https://lacrossereference.com/stats/rpi-d1-women/

So my opinion is that if you want to tier and you think Duke is in Tier 2, then Loyola is as well.

If I were to sit down and do this I'd probably have to add a tier or two or make subdivisions for tiers

What about 25 tiers with one team per tier?

That's a cool idea ...lets give a special name...how about poll?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tiers are easier. No order is required among the teams within each tier.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Tier 1 - NC, BC

Tier 2 - NU, Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, Maryland

Tier 3 - JMU, Loyola, Florida, Princeton, Stanford, USC, Colorado

Tier 4 - Rutgers, Army, Ohio St, UMass, Jacksonville, Richmond, Arizona St, Virginia Tech, Virginia, Michigan

Tier 5 - The rest

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Some of the benefits of tiers are freedom and flexibility. They can change mid week and/or game to game. Plus there's no rule that dictates a particular order within each tier, especially tiers 3 and 4 in this case.

I'm moving Northwestern to tier 2 all by their onesies until the clash vs Maryland in a smidgeda over two weeks from now (Saturday, April 23rd on Weird Field). They'll be on cruise control for upcoming wins over Rutgers, San Diego State and Johns Hopkins, all in Evanston (outside at Martin Stadium finally please??) until that last game of the season vs their archrival. They've handled Stony Brook and Syracuse who are both formidable teams, and every other team they've faced since that 20-9 massacre in Chapel Hill in early March. Maybe it woke them up. They've taken care of business since, winning 6 straight. The streak will have reached 9 by the time the bus pulls into College Park.

A lot of teams dropped off this new alignment because frankly, they're marginal teams and not very compelling at this point. And yup--still not impressed with Maryland. Who have they defeated this year that is a quality win? Florida? Meh. Certainly no one else aside from the Gators can even be considered. We'll see how they do against Northwestern. No one to give them a hard time between now and then with Princeton on the slide lately. And if Maryland loses to the Tigers next week? LOOK OUT BELOOOOOOW.

Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida*

Tier 4 - Maryland, Stanford, USC, Colorado, Princeton, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

* In a tier above for their win over Syracuse. Maryland ducked Syracuse this year and I don't think they would have been able to go toe to toe with the Orange anyway.

[laxer12]

Some of the benefits of tiers are freedom and flexibility. They can change mid week and/or game to game. Plus there's no rule that dictates a particular order within each tier, especially tiers 3 and 4 in this case.

I'm moving Northwestern to tier 2 all by their onesies until the clash vs Maryland in a smidgeda over two weeks from now (Saturday, April 23rd on Weird Field). They'll be on cruise control for upcoming wins over Rutgers, San Diego State and Johns Hopkins, all in Evanston (outside at Martin Stadium finally please??) until that last game of the season vs their archrival. They've handled Stony Brook and Syracuse who are both formidable teams, and every other team they've faced since that 20-9 massacre in Chapel Hill in early March. Maybe it woke them up. They've taken care of business since, winning 6 straight. The streak will have reached 9 by the time the bus pulls into College Park.

A lot of teams dropped off this new alignment because frankly, they're marginal teams and not very compelling at this point. And yup--still not impressed with Maryland. Who have they defeated this year that is a quality win? Florida? Meh. Certainly no one else aside from the Gators can even be considered. We'll see how they do against Northwestern. No one to give them a hard time between now and then with Princeton on the slide lately. And if Maryland loses to the Tigers next week? LOOK OUT BELOOOOOOW.

Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida*

Tier 4 - Maryland, Stanford, USC, Colorado, Princeton, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

* In a tier above for their win over Syracuse. Maryland ducked Syracuse this year and I don't think they would have been able to go toe to toe with the Orange anyway.

I'm sorry, in what way did Northwestern "handle" Syracuse? Northwestern was losing to them for the vast majority of the second half and had a 3 goal deficit when there was only 4 minutes left in that game. They scraped, clawed, and inched by Syracuse due to draw control domination, questionable officiating, Syracuse imploding with that last minute turnover resulting in the game-tying goal, Doucette making a last second save on Hawryschuk, etc, etc. My point is if any of those things go the other way, Northwestern does not win that game. Northwestern ESCAPED with that win. Nothing more.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Some of the benefits of tiers are freedom and flexibility. They can change mid week and/or game to game. Plus there's no rule that dictates a particular order within each tier, especially tiers 3 and 4 in this case.

I'm moving Northwestern to tier 2 all by their onesies until the clash vs Maryland in a smidgeda over two weeks from now (Saturday, April 23rd on Weird Field). They'll be on cruise control for upcoming wins over Rutgers, San Diego State and Johns Hopkins, all in Evanston (outside at Martin Stadium finally please??) until that last game of the season vs their archrival. They've handled Stony Brook and Syracuse who are both formidable teams, and every other team they've faced since that 20-9 massacre in Chapel Hill in early March. Maybe it woke them up. They've taken care of business since, winning 6 straight. The streak will have reached 9 by the time the bus pulls into College Park.

A lot of teams dropped off this new alignment because frankly, they're marginal teams and not very compelling at this point. And yup--still not impressed with Maryland. Who have they defeated this year that is a quality win? Florida? Meh. Certainly no one else aside from the Gators can even be considered. We'll see how they do against Northwestern. No one to give them a hard time between now and then with Princeton on the slide lately. And if Maryland loses to the Tigers next week? LOOK OUT BELOOOOOOW.

Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida*

Tier 4 - Maryland, Stanford, USC, Colorado, Princeton, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

* In a tier above for their win over Syracuse. Maryland ducked Syracuse this year and I don't think they would have been able to go toe to toe with the Orange anyway.

I'm sorry, in what way did Northwestern "handle" Syracuse? Northwestern was losing to them for the vast majority of the second half and had a 3 goal deficit when there was only 4 minutes left in that game. They scraped, clawed, and inched by Syracuse due to draw control domination, questionable officiating, Syracuse imploding with that last minute turnover resulting in the game-tying goal, Doucette making a last second save on Hawryschuk, etc, etc. My point is if any of those things go the other way, Northwestern does not win that game. Northwestern ESCAPED with that win. Nothing more.

No meaning intended by “handled” other than they beat them.

[laxer12]

Some of the benefits of tiers are freedom and flexibility. They can change mid week and/or game to game. Plus there's no rule that dictates a particular order within each tier, especially tiers 3 and 4 in this case.

I'm moving Northwestern to tier 2 all by their onesies until the clash vs Maryland in a smidgeda over two weeks from now (Saturday, April 23rd on Weird Field). They'll be on cruise control for upcoming wins over Rutgers, San Diego State and Johns Hopkins, all in Evanston (outside at Martin Stadium finally please??) until that last game of the season vs their archrival. They've handled Stony Brook and Syracuse who are both formidable teams, and every other team they've faced since that 20-9 massacre in Chapel Hill in early March. Maybe it woke them up. They've taken care of business since, winning 6 straight. The streak will have reached 9 by the time the bus pulls into College Park.

A lot of teams dropped off this new alignment because frankly, they're marginal teams and not very compelling at this point. And yup--still not impressed with Maryland. Who have they defeated this year that is a quality win? Florida? Meh. Certainly no one else aside from the Gators can even be considered. We'll see how they do against Northwestern. No one to give them a hard time between now and then with Princeton on the slide lately. And if Maryland loses to the Tigers next week? LOOK OUT BELOOOOOOW.

Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida*

Tier 4 - Maryland, Stanford, USC, Colorado, Princeton, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

* In a tier above for their win over Syracuse. Maryland ducked Syracuse this year and I don't think they would have been able to go toe to toe with the Orange anyway.

I'm sorry, in what way did Northwestern "handle" Syracuse? Northwestern was losing to them for the vast majority of the second half and had a 3 goal deficit when there was only 4 minutes left in that game. They scraped, clawed, and inched by Syracuse due to draw control domination, questionable officiating, Syracuse imploding with that last minute turnover resulting in the game-tying goal, Doucette making a last second save on Hawryschuk, etc, etc. My point is if any of those things go the other way, Northwestern does not win that game. Northwestern ESCAPED with that win. Nothing more.

No meaning intended by “handled”. Just meant they beat them.

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Some of the benefits of tiers are freedom and flexibility. They can change mid week and/or game to game. Plus there's no rule that dictates a particular order within each tier, especially tiers 3 and 4 in this case.

I'm moving Northwestern to tier 2 all by their onesies until the clash vs Maryland in a smidgeda over two weeks from now (Saturday, April 23rd on Weird Field). They'll be on cruise control for upcoming wins over Rutgers, San Diego State and Johns Hopkins, all in Evanston (outside at Martin Stadium finally please??) until that last game of the season vs their archrival. They've handled Stony Brook and Syracuse who are both formidable teams, and every other team they've faced since that 20-9 massacre in Chapel Hill in early March. Maybe it woke them up. They've taken care of business since, winning 6 straight. The streak will have reached 9 by the time the bus pulls into College Park.

A lot of teams dropped off this new alignment because frankly, they're marginal teams and not very compelling at this point. And yup--still not impressed with Maryland. Who have they defeated this year that is a quality win? Florida? Meh. Certainly no one else aside from the Gators can even be considered. We'll see how they do against Northwestern. No one to give them a hard time between now and then with Princeton on the slide lately. And if Maryland loses to the Tigers next week? LOOK OUT BELOOOOOOW.

Tier 1 - Carolina, Boston College

Tier 2 - Northwestern

Tier 3 - Syracuse, Duke, Stony Brook, Denver, JMU, Loyola, Florida*

Tier 4 - Maryland, Stanford, USC, Colorado, Princeton, Arizona St

Tier 5 - The rest

* In a tier above for their win over Syracuse. Maryland ducked Syracuse this year and I don't think they would have been able to go toe to toe with the Orange anyway.

I'm sorry, in what way did Northwestern "handle" Syracuse? Northwestern was losing to them for the vast majority of the second half and had a 3 goal deficit when there was only 4 minutes left in that game. They scraped, clawed, and inched by Syracuse due to draw control domination, questionable officiating, Syracuse imploding with that last minute turnover resulting in the game-tying goal, Doucette making a last second save on Hawryschuk, etc, etc. My point is if any of those things go the other way, Northwestern does not win that game. Northwestern ESCAPED with that win. Nothing more.

No meaning intended by “handled”. Just meant they beat them.

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Of course. It’s all subjective, anyway. Just something to pass the time between games. I’d love to see you (and anyone else) put up a set of tiers. I find everybody’s opinions on who should be ranked where very interesting. Good discussion fodder.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

Ultimately, woulda-coulda-shoulda’s fit into the category of “losers lament”. Though the points may be valid, they’re sour grapes once the win or loss goes down in the books.

[laxer12]

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

Syracuse had substantial leads in both games (NU and Loyola) in the fourth quarters and let it get away from them in both instances. The Loyola game never should have come down to those 2 controversial calls at the end of the game. However, Syracuse's complete lack of composure and killer instincts made it come down to those calls and therefore definitely could've resulted in them losing both games. But in the same retrospect, SU could've (and should've as I've personally stated) won both those games as well. Not saying I think Syracuse is worlds better than Northwestern or Loyola, because I don't. I'm saying it's incorrect to have Northwestern in a group of their own. I would put Cuse, Northwestern, Loyola, Stony Brook, and Duke all in the same tier.

[laxer12]

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

Ultimately, woulda-coulda-shoulda’s fit into the category of “losers lament”. Though the points may be valid, they’re sour grapes once the win or loss goes down in the books.

Haha I'm not lamenting or whining about the Northwestern loss at all. I just wholeheartedly disagree with any notion that Northwestern is the better team in comparison to Syracuse.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

That's fine then. But to put them in a tier of their own and (not include SU) when Syracuse could've and really should've beaten them, is pretty disingenuous to say the least. But, it is your set of tiers

Parenthetically, you could apply the same principle to Syracuse’s win over Loyola—but once you start down that rabbit hole, you have to do it for every game that’s close or has controversial calls or non-calls.

Ultimately, woulda-coulda-shoulda’s fit into the category of “losers lament”. Though the points may be valid, they’re sour grapes once the win or loss goes down in the books.

Haha I'm not lamenting or whining about the Northwestern loss at all. I just wholeheartedly disagree with any notion that Northwestern is the better team in comparison to Syracuse.

In regards to the Northwestern loss, I don’t consider a three-goal lead late in the fourth with more than three minutes to go substantial, especially against that offense. Plus, I remember watching that game. Syracuse choked that one away. They deserved to lose that game. So Northwestern earned that win. No asterisks involved.

I also beg to differ on the Loyola game. A 5 goal lead with 13 minutes to go in the 4th quarter is not substantial, at least not in my book, and not against Loyola with all their offensive weapons.

The very fact that Syracuse has lost their composure down the stretch in more than one game this season is one of the reasons I don’t put them in the same tier with Northwestern.

You wrote: “I’m saying it’s incorrect to have Northwestern in a group of their own. I would put Cuse, Northwestern, Loyola, Stony Brook, and Duke all in the same tier.”

And I’m sure you would get an argument from somebody for putting Cuse, Northwestern, Loyola and Stony Brook in the same tier as Duke. And still others would argue that another team belongs there or doesn’t. That’s why I encouraged you to make your own tier. Northwestern being in tier 2 by themselves is my opinion, pure and simple. It isn’t right, wrong or disingenuous. Polls are subjective. Tiers are subjective. And to a certain degree so is the RPI/SOS analytic because some nerd set up the parameters subjectively.

Also, I was careful to make the losers lament a general statement. I am not directing it at you. However, when anybody engages in woulda-coulda-shoulda after a controversial loss, I put it into the general bin of losers lament because that’s exactly what it is. Nobody wants to hear it, except fans of the losing team commiserating with each other.