Johns Hopkins 2022

[jhu06]

My view is that next year is likely going to be the hardest. It will be the team with the first year of his "talent" he recruited and most of the older guys have started to graduate out (though some COVID guys might remain). You usually have a dearth of talent in the Soph and Junior years because of the coaching change - though Hopkins does have some nice sophmores. So you have the issue of not great older talent mixed with a bunch of younger talent. Makes it tough to go against Hopkins schedule. Now, this doesn't mean my theory is going to happen but my guess is they miss the NCAAs again next year (obviously they haven't missed this year but need the AQ to make it).

No idea if we make the NCAAs next year but I expect it to be better than this year. The class coming in is very talented. Smith, Szuluk, and Martin are fantastic pieces with which to build around on defense. We'll see who they bring back from this senior class (you'd think Narewski and Degnon) but from a culture standpoint, I think it could be a good thing to get a little "younger." In my view this sophomore class has bought in more than anyone — I count 9 guys in that class with regular playing time and perhaps some good leadership for the future. That class really brings a lot of energy. Combine that with guys like Collison, Marquis, English, Iler (I'm confident at least one of those guys is going to pop immediately) and I think the end result is a team that's closer to what the staff intends to build.

As far as the 2023 class goes, I'd expect Ayers to crack that IL list — he's a top 5 attackman in that class IMO. Jewell and Rawson can also play, among others. We really need to stop focusing on those lists. Rutgers is a pretty good example. There's talent all over. You get guys who fit your system and your culture and you can win. PM and co. are just at the very start of doing that and we're in the growing pains phase.

they have a group this year that is supposedly very talented in the minds of the previous staff which recruited them, the current staff which recruited and kept them, and certain IL/hs evaluators which rated them, and they also have years of experience against rivals like rutgers, and they still stunk yesterday. "We're going to get younger and less talented and be better" yeah right.

[HopFan16]

My view is that next year is likely going to be the hardest. It will be the team with the first year of his "talent" he recruited and most of the older guys have started to graduate out (though some COVID guys might remain). You usually have a dearth of talent in the Soph and Junior years because of the coaching change - though Hopkins does have some nice sophmores. So you have the issue of not great older talent mixed with a bunch of younger talent. Makes it tough to go against Hopkins schedule. Now, this doesn't mean my theory is going to happen but my guess is they miss the NCAAs again next year (obviously they haven't missed this year but need the AQ to make it).

No idea if we make the NCAAs next year but I expect it to be better than this year. The class coming in is very talented. Smith, Szuluk, and Martin are fantastic pieces with which to build around on defense. We'll see who they bring back from this senior class (you'd think Narewski and Degnon) but from a culture standpoint, I think it could be a good thing to get a little "younger." In my view this sophomore class has bought in more than anyone — I count 9 guys in that class with regular playing time and perhaps some good leadership for the future. That class really brings a lot of energy. Combine that with guys like Collison, Marquis, English, Iler (I'm confident at least one of those guys is going to pop immediately) and I think the end result is a team that's closer to what the staff intends to build.

As far as the 2023 class goes, I'd expect Ayers to crack that IL list — he's a top 5 attackman in that class IMO. Jewell and Rawson can also play, among others. We really need to stop focusing on those lists. Rutgers is a pretty good example. There's talent all over. You get guys who fit your system and your culture and you can win. PM and co. are just at the very start of doing that and we're in the growing pains phase.

they have a group this year that is supposedly very talented in the minds of the previous staff which recruited them, the current staff which recruited and kept them, and certain IL/hs evaluators which rated them, and they also have years of experience against rivals like rutgers, and they still stunk yesterday. "We're going to get younger and less talented and be better" yeah right.

yes you made a great argument why we shouldn't pay attention to the IL rankings

arguably our best player on offense all season has been a dude no one had ever heard of coming out of high school and has since vastly outperformed his very highly ranked HS teammate from dematha, who ironically has the same first name and played the same position. Our leader in caused turnovers is a transfer from Lafayette of all places who also did not sniff any IL rankings. Martin I think was in the 70s and Angelus in the 60s. Smith is pretty much the only guy on the roster who has lived up to his top 20 IL billing. Peshko was not a top 100 recruit either.

we had a decade+ of highly ranked classes and petro did very little with them. suddenly it's an issue that we don't have a top 3 class? again, look what brecht is doing at rutgers with 0 IL guys

you still don't understand that milliman couldn't just clean house and get rid of everybody. 51 has been a saint and tried explaining this to you nicely several times but it's going in one ear and out the other. you just say sh*t without thinking through what that would actually look like in practice or what the repercussions would be. that would have had a DISASTROUS effect on recruiting and the team would probably be 0-11 instead of 5-6 and you'd probably be catatonic in need of institutionalization

Note I didn't say we are going to be less talented next year. I did say younger. Doesn't mean less talented. Provided guys like Smith/Martin stay and Collison et al matriculate (they've signed their NLIs so I don't see they wouldn't) then I think it'll be a more talented overall team — and, crucially, one that more closely resembles the kind of program the staff wants to run. Not all the way there yet, but getting there.

[steel_hop]

As far as the 2023 class goes, I'd expect Ayers to crack that IL list — he's a top 5 attackman in that class IMO. Jewell and Rawson can also play, among others. We really need to stop focusing on those lists. Rutgers is a pretty good example. There's talent all over. You get guys who fit your system and your culture and you can win. PM and co. are just at the very start of doing that and we're in the growing pains phase.

Which is why I don't pay attention to recruiting at all. The first time I looked at 2022 and 2023 list ever. I couldn't tell you when I looked at recruiting lists before that. Recruiting is way to hit or miss in lacrosse. Add in all the transfer portal stuff now I can say pretty affirmly that coaches don't get paid enough. (I think I saw that 35% of all DI basketball scholarship players go into the transfer portal).

[CrookedJay]

I disagree when anyone who says that the players we have are not good enough to score goals and win the games that Hopkins “should win.” You do not need to be able to beat your man by 5 steps in order to get a defense to rotate. It would be nice, but if you lack that spark, then you need organization and anticipation, all of which can be taught/drilled into the brain to some degree.
[/quote

You need talent to execute what the coaches want. Hop hasn't had that.

I would agree with you if we were talking about a middle school team in Wyoming, where certain concepts might be hard to grasp. I’d also agree with you if the game plan is to dodge to score and have everyone else watch - but since everyone knows we can’t do that, it can’t be what the coaches are asking, right?

Ultimately I take what you say to mean that the Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, or dodge and pass.

[Sagittarius A*]

I disagree when anyone who says that the players we have are not good enough to score goals and win the games that Hopkins “should win.” You do not need to be able to beat your man by 5 steps in order to get a defense to rotate. It would be nice, but if you lack that spark, then you need organization and anticipation, all of which can be taught/drilled into the brain to some degree.
[/quote

You need talent to execute what the coaches want. Hop hasn't had that.

I would agree with you if we were talking about a middle school team in Wyoming, where certain concepts might be hard to grasp. I’d also agree with you if the game plan is to dodge to score and have everyone else watch - but since everyone knows we can’t do that, it can’t be what the coaches are asking, right?

Ultimately I take what you say to mean that the Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, or dodge and pass.

I don't know about "should win" games, but this year was our first loss to NAVY at home since the 1960's.
It was our first loss to Delaware ever.
Last year was our first loss to Michigan ever.
We're below .500
We're in danger of missing the NCAA tournament for the second year in a row.
The midfield line that lit it up in the BIG Ten tournament scored one goal in the last game and had numerous turnovers. They seem to have regressed. We still can't clear the ball. Good teams don't beat themselves.
On a positive note, at least we won some faceoffs with Narewski back.

[Farfromgeneva]

You can certainly question Millman
- why Epstein did see some of the field?
- why he thought it was a good idea to have not one but two set of games less than 48 hours apart from each other?
- why did we set up one of the toughest schedules this year? That belies a view that he misevaluated where he thought the program was.
- what the offense is trying to do? Doesn't seem like it has an sense of how to attack a defense (some of this is pure lack of high end talent) but offense of strategy leaves a lot to be desired. If anyone is on the hot seat it is Grant because the team is average 10 goals a game. That is awful
- why has the defense seemed to figure out how to play with intensity and passion while the offense seems to be going through the motions.

In their introductory press conference, the coaches seemed very confident and oblivious to the difficulties with the team they were inheriting.
I thought they were overconfident at the time tbh. There is an advantage to playing a tough schedule in that it enhances your RPI.
Playing two games over a weekend to simulate the postseason assumes that you will actually make it to the post season.
The coach has a five year contract. He's shooting to do well in year 4. If he shows well in year's 4 and 5 he gets extended.
While I'm sure he'd like to win now, I don't think he's sweating it either. Since certain players will be gone from this roster by year 4, they don't really matter to him all that much in the final analysis.

This is the right approach for an employee presuming certain conditions precedent. (Which appear to be the case here). Doesn’t do much for fans but it’s what happens when portions of an institution become about over time. Micro focused

That is not reality in the least. Typically, coaches get contracts extended with at least 2 years remaining, maybe in the off scenario with 1 year left (i.e. after year 4 for Millman). This is done for recruiting reasons or at least that this the argument because other coaches can recruit against Hopkins by saying "Millman doesn't have an extension and only 1 year left on his contract. How do you know he's going to be there when you show up to Hopkins?" You'd be tying PM's hands on recruiting.

If Millman doesn't have a contract extension after year 4 - and I am not making an argument he should or shouldn't - but just the factual point. If that happens that basically tells you where the administrastion is heading. It is why Petro was a dead man walking after the 2019 season and he wasn't given an extension.

So year 3 is a pretty big one for him.

Who’s reality? If Hop has a mediocre year next year, in or out of playoffs but .500 or better record, then has a 11-3 type QF or better season in year four he’s getting extended no doubt.

How many lacrosse coaches do you think have 4-5yr contracts out of the 70 odd programs out there? 10? 15? Less?

I didn't argue that point. I stated that for recruiting purposes you don't want a coach with only 1 year left on his contract. But, yes, if he does what you state he's going to get a contract extension. If he misses the NCAA's 4 straight years, I'd imagine there will be a conversation about him coaching his 5th year. Note, I doubt that Hopkins misses 4 straight tournaments but anything is possible in this day and age.

My view is that next year is likely going to be the hardest. It will be the team with the first year of his "talent" he recruited and most of the older guys have started to graduate out (though some COVID guys might remain). You usually have a dearth of talent in the Soph and Junior years because of the coaching change - though Hopkins does have some nice sophmores. So you have the issue of not great older talent mixed with a bunch of younger talent. Makes it tough to go against Hopkins schedule. Now, this doesn't mean my theory is going to happen but my guess is they miss the NCAAs again next year (obviously they haven't missed this year but need the AQ to make it).

As I said before, the program was in a complete mess. It wasn't like UVA where there was tons of talent just laying around but wasn't getting pointed in the right direction.

I don't pay any attention to recruiting so I just looked. It appears the Hopkins is 8th for the guys coming in 2022. Fine. But looking at the 2023 class...eek not a single guy on IL's top 60 list has committed to Hopkins. That is more than concerning given you can give most recruits "you can start as a freshman because there is no one in front of you."

Understood. Didn’t get what you were saying before but it all makes sense to me the way you laid it out here.

[a fan]

Ultimately I take what you say to mean that the Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, or dodge and pass.

Do you think the Hopkins players are on the field by themselves? Or do they have to execute pick and rolls, dodge, and pass.....all with Division I defenses trying to prevent them from doing it. And prevent the other team from dodging, passing, running pick and rolls

So my simple answer to your sarcastic question is: no. Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, dodge or pass better than the opposing team. It's why they keep losing. The other teams they are losing to have better players.

Same reason my Syracuse team keeps losing and missing Final Fours. It's easy to see.

[1766]

My view is that next year is likely going to be the hardest. It will be the team with the first year of his "talent" he recruited and most of the older guys have started to graduate out (though some COVID guys might remain). You usually have a dearth of talent in the Soph and Junior years because of the coaching change - though Hopkins does have some nice sophmores. So you have the issue of not great older talent mixed with a bunch of younger talent. Makes it tough to go against Hopkins schedule. Now, this doesn't mean my theory is going to happen but my guess is they miss the NCAAs again next year (obviously they haven't missed this year but need the AQ to make it).

No idea if we make the NCAAs next year but I expect it to be better than this year. The class coming in is very talented. Smith, Szuluk, and Martin are fantastic pieces with which to build around on defense. We'll see who they bring back from this senior class (you'd think Narewski and Degnon) but from a culture standpoint, I think it could be a good thing to get a little "younger." In my view this sophomore class has bought in more than anyone — I count 9 guys in that class with regular playing time and perhaps some good leadership for the future. That class really brings a lot of energy. Combine that with guys like Collison, Marquis, English, Iler (I'm confident at least one of those guys is going to pop immediately) and I think the end result is a team that's closer to what the staff intends to build.

As far as the 2023 class goes, I'd expect Ayers to crack that IL list — he's a top 5 attackman in that class IMO. Jewell and Rawson can also play, among others. We really need to stop focusing on those lists. Rutgers is a pretty good example. There's talent all over. You get guys who fit your system and your culture and you can win. PM and co. are just at the very start of doing that and we're in the growing pains phase.

they have a group this year that is supposedly very talented in the minds of the previous staff which recruited them, the current staff which recruited and kept them, and certain IL/hs evaluators which rated them, and they also have years of experience against rivals like rutgers, and they still stunk yesterday. "We're going to get younger and less talented and be better" yeah right.

yes you made a great argument why we shouldn't pay attention to the IL rankings

arguably our best player on offense all season has been a dude no one had ever heard of coming out of high school and has since vastly outperformed his very highly ranked HS teammate from dematha, who ironically has the same first name and played the same position. Our leader in caused turnovers is a transfer from Lafayette of all places who also did not sniff any IL rankings. Martin I think was in the 70s and Angelus in the 60s. Smith is pretty much the only guy on the roster who has lived up to his top 20 IL billing. Peshko was not a top 100 recruit either.

we had a decade+ of highly ranked classes and petro did very little with them. suddenly it's an issue that we don't have a top 3 class? again, look what brecht is doing at rutgers with 0 IL guys

you still don't understand that milliman couldn't just clean house and get rid of everybody. 51 has been a saint and tried explaining this to you nicely several times but it's going in one ear and out the other. you just say sh*t without thinking through what that would actually look like in practice or what the repercussions would be. that would have had a DISASTROUS effect on recruiting and the team would probably be 0-11 instead of 5-6 and you'd probably be catatonic in need of institutionalization

Note I didn't say we are going to be less talented next year. I did say younger. Doesn't mean less talented. Provided guys like Smith/Martin stay and Collison et al matriculate (they've signed their NLIs so I don't see they wouldn't) then I think it'll be a more talented overall team — and, crucially, one that more closely resembles the kind of program the staff wants to run. Not all the way there yet, but getting there.

Anyone who puts much credence in the IL rankings should have their head examined. Who are the guys evaluating all of these players from all around the entire country? It's an inexact science at the NFL and college level and they spend hundreds of millions on it. A couple of guys in the IL office who likely never played can't be expected to do so with any confidence. Outside of a couple of can't miss kids, those rankings are bunk.

I looked at Rutgers recruiting over the last 5-7 years. According to IL, I don't believe there has been a top 20 ranked class, ever. Though that is apparently changing. Conversely, Hopkins has had numerous top 10 and 5 classes during that time. Did there look like a huge talent disparity on the field last night in Hopkins' favor? So either Coach Brecht is an incredible developer of talent or maybe those rankings just don't mean a whole lot.

I will say that Coach Brecht loved programs doing all that early recruiting. It left a lot of later developing talent available. He was very happy to not part take in that game.

[Matnum PI]

Epstein a 3x captain...

Just to echo what many have said before me, this is strange...

[Mightyjoe]

Again, kids and families have changed. I can’t imagine a stud kid is out there and when saying he wants to go to the best team, stud players (game changers), best program…..tradition, fans, where lacrosse is king and JHU comes to mind??
That’s generally gone. If he’s looking for strong academics with decent lacrosse then maybe he would look at JHU as an option.
But now there are several programs that can match if not more.

[HopFan16]

Again, kids and families have changed. I can’t imagine a stud kid is out there and when saying he wants to go to the best team, stud players (game changers), best program…..tradition, fans, where lacrosse is king and JHU comes to mind??
That’s generally gone. If he’s looking for strong academics with decent lacrosse then maybe he would look at JHU as an option.
But now there are several programs that can match if not more.

JHU is clearly not the best program but it meets your other criteria: tradition, fans, where lacrosse is king, strong academics, decent lacrosse. There aren't a ton of programs that check all those boxes. There are good programs out there with strong academics but they're at schools where no one cares one iota about the lacrosse team and they don't get any fans to show up to games. We all know who they are. Some kids won't care about that, but others do. But if you want top-notch academics, competitive lacrosse AND an environment with a strong tradition where lacrosse matters, there's Hopkins, a handful of Ivies, UVA, Georgetown, maybe UNC. A lot more than there used to be, but it's not an endless list. Hop can and will be competitive on the recruiting trail — again, PM's first class (2022s) looks pretty talented and includes several guys who were coveted by the schools named above — even one who was flipped from an Ivy and has a brothers at Princeton and UNC. And PM recruited that class coming off a 2-4 season and coaching change. Couldn't have been an optimal situation. The days of top-ranked classes year in and year out are over but as several programs have demonstrated, you don't need those to be successful.

[DocBarrister]

Gone are the days of differing admission/behavior standards for laxers vs the rest of JHU student population.

Yiiiiiikes this is deeply, deeply incorrect

When did those standards change? Perhaps I'm just still remembering the early 00s.

Surely you don't imagine that the admission standards for any the sports, not just the lax programs, are equivalent today to the general pop???

The DIII sports have quite high targets, but are akin to the Ivy targets relative to their overall pop, meaning within a standard deviation but certainly not equivalent. The D1 have a wider range, lower target.

I'm not sure it could be said of any D1 program in the nation that their admission standards are equivalent to the overall admission standards.

It’s very simple folks. Why would kids want to come to JHU to play. There are so many programs that offer these young kids much more than “a great education”. Take the big ten schools. All have big football. Kids have the opportunity to enjoy other sports at the highest level when they are not playing lacrosse. They have much better facilities, etc. Kids and families have changed. Without Hopkins being a national championship team, the days of being at an elite school with elite lacrosse is gone.
Hopkins is not known to be the elite program it once was and no one cares ……well at least not the younger generation of kids and families coming up. A lot of you guys are hanging onto the old days while scratching your heads on how the program has changed so much over the last 6 years. Wake up!!!

Well, Johns Hopkins is more prestigious than the vast majority of colleges out there and no school cares more about lacrosse.

So … there’s two reasons. I’m sure individual players can come up with more.

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Ultimately I take what you say to mean that the Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, or dodge and pass.

Do you think the Hopkins players are on the field by themselves? Or do they have to execute pick and rolls, dodge, and pass.....all with Division I defenses trying to prevent them from doing it. And prevent the other team from dodging, passing, running pick and rolls

So my simple answer to your sarcastic question is: no. Hopkins players are not talented enough to run a pick and roll, dodge or pass better than the opposing team. It's why they keep losing. The other teams they are losing to have better players.

Same reason my Syracuse team keeps losing and missing Final Fours. It's easy to see.

Your “talent is everything” credo just isn’t correct.

Coaching matters. Talent isn’t everything … having complementary players suited for the playing style the coaches want to implement … that matters. Team chemistry matters. Personalities and leadership matter.

A lot of things go into building a winning team.

Does the team with the most individual talent on its roster win the national championship every season? No, of course not.

Winning isn’t simple or easy. There are definitely teams that overperform or underperform relative to the quality of individual talent on the roster. That’s undeniably true.

The rigidity of your thesis makes it wrong, and it’s as simple as that.

DocBarrister

[jhu06]

I would imagine most teams can coach goalies to properly clear so that twice in a half passes don't immediately end up in their own net. The staff welcomed back 8 grad students. They did not have to do that and if they don't believe this freshman class is worth playing this year they should have redshirted them or not welcomed them to campus.

the world changed a lot from the 60s to 70s to 80s to 90s to 00s to 10s. We were still able to beat navy at home. What was the difference between what we've seen the last month from PM than what we got from petro other than not having to hear about titles won decades ago? Two years, mostly same petro guys shifted around the depth chart with the same mistakes and performances.

edward lee's media is a lot of complaints about his industry and the lack of resources for it. writing good stories that make people want to click on them and subscribe to his paper rather than just cutting and pasting play by play might be a way to do that. this program has been a mess for years and he's taken a pass like the rest of his lacrosse profession on asking why its most storied program is a dumpster fire.

Yes xanders is good at letting the world know he likes the ravens, bama, upper middle class parents who throw small fortunes at their young childrens lacrosse futures, expensive lacrosse camps, but not so good at evaluating what he sees on the field and the words handed to him by coaches.

syracuse is a train wreck but it's a train wreck w/a direction. I don't see or hear PM/jgrjr/jks.

[Mightyjoe]

Missed one point. The tradition part. Tradition continues to diminish, particularly with this generation. It’s staying alive for those that live in the past. Too many teams that have beaten JHU and consistently does much better……over the past few years will draw better players.
Not to mention other extra curricular activities that Hopkins just can’t offer.
We are not winning in the popularity category when it comes to best programs. A child today feels just as proud to cart around a sweatshirt that says Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State or whatever
and dream to play there some day. We have lost the “elite” program campaign and the recruiting field has been equalized.
What makes Hopkins special to an upcoming athlete. Give me the pitch you would give that kid. Love to hear it.

[DocBarrister]

Missed one point. The tradition part. Tradition continues to diminish, particularly with this generation. It’s staying alive for those that live in the past. Too many teams that have beaten JHU and consistently does much better……over the past few years will draw better players.
Not to mention other extra curricular activities that Hopkins just can’t offer.
We are not winning in the popularity category when it comes to best programs. A child today feels just as proud to cart around a sweatshirt that says Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State or whatever
and dream to play there some day. We have lost the “elite” program campaign and the recruiting field has been equalized.
What makes Hopkins special to an upcoming athlete. Give me the pitch you would give that kid. Love to hear it.

Nothing a little winning can’t cure.

Blue Jays will get their share of elite talent … always have, always will.

Now, what the coaches do with that talent is another story.

DocBarrister

[HopFan16]

syracuse is a train wreck but it's a train wreck w/a direction. I don't see or hear PM/jgrjr/jks.

You keep saying that. What's the direction? Articulate it.

What makes Hopkins special to an upcoming athlete. Give me the pitch you would give that kid. Love to hear it.

Special? What makes Notre Dame or Cornell or anyone else special? You can usually get whatever you're looking for somewhere else. Maybe Maryland and UVA's recent winning ways are relatively unique vis a vis other teams for recruits who care more about winning a championship than anything else.

For Hopkins, the pitch is: elite education, large and loyal alumni network, Cordish Center, exclusive ESPN contract (meaning every game is on national TV and not on some garbage unwatchable streaming service like some other teams), play one of the best schedules in the country, and, yes, the history/tradition is still a factor. Kids may not grow up dreaming of Hopkins and Hopkins only like they might have at one point years ago but some still value the underlying tradition at the school — where lacrosse matters and fans/alums are invested in them. They know the difference between a school that cares about lacrosse and one that doesn't. Some want to be big fishes in small ponds rather than vice versa. Not everyone obviously. And that's fine. Recent recruits have cited the tradition specifically when asked why the committed among other reasons:

Here is top 2023 attackman Jimmy Ayers:

“It was a really tough decision; there were some really great places I was talking to,” said Ayers, the second of Michael and Kate Ayers’ four children. “Johns Hopkins is such a great academic institution, though, and the lacrosse history speaks for itself. Talking to the coaches there made me feel really welcome, too.”

An attackman who can shoot with either hand and has remarkable accuracy, Ayers said he heard from ‘Coach Junior’ (i.e., Blue Jays assistant coach John Grant Jr.) via text a few days into September. “Obivously, getting a text from a coach at Johns Hopkins is something every lacrosse player wishes to get,” said Ayers.

“It’s got that great balance of academics and lacrosse I was looking for,” he said. “It’ll definitely be a huge challenge; I’ll have to bring my A-game in the classroom and on the field. But I’m up for it.”

Here's 2022 Tripp Didden:

“Hopkins is the best program ever and I wanted to be a part of it. So many of the game’s greats like (PLL Redwoods midfielder) Kyle Harrison and (PLL founder and Atlas midfielder) Paul Rabil played there. Playing on Homewood Field and protecting that turf will be an absolute honor and privilege. It’s also one of the top 10 colleges in then world and you really can’t get much better than that academically.”

2022 Mike Trepeta:

“When I stepped on campus, I just felt it right away,” Trepeta said. “The campus was beautiful, and I was looking for academics along with lacrosse. It’s a top-10 academic school and Hopkins is the original great program. When I saw Homewood Field, I knew that I wanted to be a part of their tradition.”

There is a lot of stuff similar to that but you get the point. Those are all IL 4-stars by the way so one would imagine they had other suitors, not like Hopkins was their only option.

[a fan]

Your “talent is everything” credo just isn’t correct.

Coaching matters. Talent isn’t everything … having complementary players suited for the playing style the coaches want to implement … that matters. Team chemistry matters. Personalities and leadership matter.

A lot of things go into building a winning team.

Does the team with the most individual talent on its roster win the national championship every season? No, of course not.

Winning isn’t simple or easy. There are definitely teams that overperform or underperform relative to the quality of individual talent on the roster. That’s undeniably true.

The rigidity of your thesis makes it wrong, and it’s as simple as that.

DocBarrister

Yeah......except that ain't my thesis, Doc. You're not paying attention.

It's simple: you cannot make Final Fours without elite talent on the roster, Doc. No amount of coaching will take a middling roster to a Final Four, Doc.

That doesn't mean that "talented rosters ALWAYS make the Final Four". So just stop with the strawman.

As for the other part of my "thesis" as you call it...... Coaching?

Petro, Tierney, Toomey, Desko, Tambroni et. al. have all proven that they can make Final Fours just fine if they have an elite roster. So when you see those coaches miss the playoffs entirely for a few years in a row? The OBVIOUS conclusion is.....they don't have the talent to win.

What YOU and others keep asserting when this happens is: talent be damned, these coaches obviously are "coaching wrong". Or "the game has passed them by", or other absurd conclusions.

So sure, go right ahead and get rid of your second set of coaches, Doc. Obviously they can't coach this sooper-complicated sport of ours. Find someone who can.

[DocBarrister]

syracuse is a train wreck but it's a train wreck w/a direction. I don't see or hear PM/jgrjr/jks.

You keep saying that. What's the direction? Articulate it.

What makes Hopkins special to an upcoming athlete. Give me the pitch you would give that kid. Love to hear it.

Special? What makes Notre Dame or Cornell or anyone else special? You can usually get whatever you're looking for somewhere else. Maybe Maryland and UVA's recent winning ways are relatively unique vis a vis other teams for recruits who care more about winning a championship than anything else.

For Hopkins, the pitch is: elite education, large and loyal alumni network, Cordish Center, exclusive ESPN contract (meaning every game is on national TV and not on some garbage unwatchable streaming service like some other teams), play one of the best schedules in the country, and, yes, the history/tradition is still a factor. Kids may not grow up dreaming of Hopkins and Hopkins only like they might have at one point years ago but some still value the underlying tradition at the school — where lacrosse matters and fans/alums are invested in them. They know the difference between a school that cares about lacrosse and one that doesn't. Some want to be big fishes in small ponds rather than vice versa. Not everyone obviously. And that's fine. Recent recruits have cited the tradition specifically when asked why the committed among other reasons:

Here is top 2023 attackman Jimmy Ayers:

“It was a really tough decision; there were some really great places I was talking to,” said Ayers, the second of Michael and Kate Ayers’ four children. “Johns Hopkins is such a great academic institution, though, and the lacrosse history speaks for itself. Talking to the coaches there made me feel really welcome, too.”

An attackman who can shoot with either hand and has remarkable accuracy, Ayers said he heard from ‘Coach Junior’ (i.e., Blue Jays assistant coach John Grant Jr.) via text a few days into September. “Obivously, getting a text from a coach at Johns Hopkins is something every lacrosse player wishes to get,” said Ayers.

“It’s got that great balance of academics and lacrosse I was looking for,” he said. “It’ll definitely be a huge challenge; I’ll have to bring my A-game in the classroom and on the field. But I’m up for it.”

Here's 2022 Tripp Didden:

“Hopkins is the best program ever and I wanted to be a part of it. So many of the game’s greats like (PLL Redwoods midfielder) Kyle Harrison and (PLL founder and Atlas midfielder) Paul Rabil played there. Playing on Homewood Field and protecting that turf will be an absolute honor and privilege. It’s also one of the top 10 colleges in then world and you really can’t get much better than that academically.”

2022 Mike Trepeta:

“When I stepped on campus, I just felt it right away,” Trepeta said. “The campus was beautiful, and I was looking for academics along with lacrosse. It’s a top-10 academic school and Hopkins is the original great program. When I saw Homewood Field, I knew that I wanted to be a part of their tradition.”

There is a lot of stuff similar to that but you get the point. Those are all IL 4-stars by the way so one would imagine they had other suitors, not like Hopkins was their only option.

Heh, looks like President Daniels’ push for a top ten U.S. News & World Report ranking is paying dividends in lacrosse recruiting. Who’d a thunkit?

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Your “talent is everything” credo just isn’t correct.

Coaching matters. Talent isn’t everything … having complementary players suited for the playing style the coaches want to implement … that matters. Team chemistry matters. Personalities and leadership matter.

A lot of things go into building a winning team.

Does the team with the most individual talent on its roster win the national championship every season? No, of course not.

Winning isn’t simple or easy. There are definitely teams that overperform or underperform relative to the quality of individual talent on the roster. That’s undeniably true.

The rigidity of your thesis makes it wrong, and it’s as simple as that.

DocBarrister

Yeah......except that ain't my thesis, Doc. You're not paying attention.

It's simple: you cannot make Final Fours without elite talent on the roster, Doc. No amount of coaching will take a middling roster to a Final Four, Doc.

That doesn't mean that "talented rosters ALWAYS make the Final Four". So just stop with the strawman.

As for the other part of my "thesis" as you call it...... Coaching?

Petro, Tierney, Toomey, Desko, Tambroni et. al. have all proven that they can make Final Fours just fine if they have an elite roster. So when you see those coaches miss the playoffs entirely for a few years in a row? The OBVIOUS conclusion is.....they don't have the talent to win.

What YOU and others keep asserting when this happens is: talent be damned, these coaches obviously are "coaching wrong". Or "the game has passed them by", or other absurd conclusions.

So sure, go right ahead and get rid of your second set of coaches, Doc. Obviously they can't coach this sooper-complicated sport of ours. Find someone who can.

Just too simple.

And time does pass some coaches by.

Tom Landry is probably one of the best examples. His offensive line movement (moving up in unison) to draw opponents offsides; popularized the shotgun; his flex defense; spread offense … all pretty innovative, until it wasn’t.

Same for Petro’s defense. The entire premise is outdated. The notion that stick technology makes attempted takeaways imprudent and not worthwhile? Just watch the Hopkins O (or the Hopkins D on their better days) and you know that’s not true.

In fact, aggressive defensive play is more important than ever because of stick technology. Petro’s defensive schemes called for giving opponents bad-angle, off-hand, or 15+ yard shots and relying on the goalie to save those. But you just can’t let opponents take those shots cleanly anymore. Stick technology allows harder, faster, more accurate shots. Players are more athletic. You can’t let anyone take a clean shot anymore. You have to be aggressive and always have a stick on the shooter’s hands. You have to slide to shooters. Aggressive defensive play, because there are now plenty of players who can shoot with both hands, score from bad angles, and fire a cannon from 15+ yards.

And the best defenses today are offensive minded … initiating transition and offense with caused turnovers. Loyola doesn’t always have the talent to make their style of defense work … but watch how they play defense. That’s how a modern lacrosse defense should look and play like. Petro’s defense looks nothing like it.

Just not as simple as you make it out to be, a fan.

DocBarrister