All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

But a Ukraine that defeats Russia is a heck of a lot better outcome than one in which Ukraine surrenders because we pressured them to do so. Also shouldn't be hard to say that.

and yet it is for you.

It is my analytical opinion that Ukraine cannot defeat Russia militarily or force them to withdraw from all occupied territory.

They may eventually get Russian forces to withdraw somewhat, but imo it is not worth the continued death & destruction.

A divided, partially free Ukraine is preferable to a destroyed Ukraine entirely under the control of Russia, imo.

If the Ukrainians can get the Russians to withdraw, while still occupying Crimea, Donbas & the land bridge between them, I see that as the best outcome which can be reasonably hoped for, absent direct kinetic US military intervention, with or without NATO support.

Did your "analytical opinion" expect Ukraine to do this well?

Or were you predicting a swift collapse of the Zelensky government? A swift success by Russia?

Seriously, I take a lot of your expertise on weapons systems etc as far superior to mine, but I'm not so confident in your assessment of people. Both the Ukrainians and the Russians...and for that matter, the neighbors and the US.

So, I think we need to stop assuming defeat and instead look at what it will take to win, which by definition means repelling Russia from Ukraine.

My far less informed assessment of the weapons is that Ukraine needs more weapons, more firepower, especially that which can destroy the Russian forward capabilities, whether on land or air, and then to be able to strike at their supply lines and their stand off missile capabilities. And my assessment is that'll take time, much more time.

But that's what the Ukrainians want, and as long as they believe that fighting is the right path, I think we should support them to win, not show, place or lose.

None of the "experts" who are paid to opine or analyze predicted the way this war proceeded in the opening phase.
Even our publicly released intell predicted Kyiv would fall within 72 hours.

In modern warfare, esprit & morale only count for so much. Weapons systems capabilities, firepower & logistics eventually carry the day.
Imo, If we ever get the S-300's & Harpoon coastal defense batteries to the Ukrainians, they might have a chance, but time is running out.
What long range weapons do you propose we provide & how do we get them in the hands of Ukrainians capable of using them ?

I'm not talking very long range, though yes, the S-300 and Harpoon are classified as such. I think the Ukrainians need to keep doing strikes like they did to the fuel depot inside Russia. That was just helicopter delivered. I keep saying drones, and certainly the Ukrainians are using Switchblades to good effect, so folks like Petraeus are calling for getting thousands more to them, but I also think that our US technologies should get deployed in a counteroffensive. Yes, the air is contested. But they're needed in the fight, IMO. If there's a better answer, fine by me. But the battle should be fought to win.

I'm not remotely an expert in what tactics, systems, would be most effective, but yeah, I think the Ukrainians have proven to have the morale advantage to such an extent that they can drive the Russians into retreat. Heck, the Russians are having to bring in Syrian forces in because their own forces are in retreat.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/01/us/p ... raine.html

U.S. Will Help Transfer Soviet-Made Tanks to Ukraine
The transfer, a response to a request from Ukraine’s president, will mark the first time the Biden administration has helped send tanks in the five-week-old war.

We should be sending tanks to Putin.

Meanwhile, Biden's approval ratings tank @ 40% -- the lowest of his Presidency, so far.

What makes you think I care about Joe Biden's approval rating? He's your commander in chief, you should be more supportive and respectful. He's on our team.

[old salt]

But a Ukraine that defeats Russia is a heck of a lot better outcome than one in which Ukraine surrenders because we pressured them to do so. Also shouldn't be hard to say that.

and yet it is for you.

It is my analytical opinion that Ukraine cannot defeat Russia militarily or force them to withdraw from all occupied territory.

They may eventually get Russian forces to withdraw somewhat, but imo it is not worth the continued death & destruction.

A divided, partially free Ukraine is preferable to a destroyed Ukraine entirely under the control of Russia, imo.

If the Ukrainians can get the Russians to withdraw, while still occupying Crimea, Donbas & the land bridge between them, I see that as the best outcome which can be reasonably hoped for, absent direct kinetic US military intervention, with or without NATO support.

Did your "analytical opinion" expect Ukraine to do this well?

Or were you predicting a swift collapse of the Zelensky government? A swift success by Russia?

Seriously, I take a lot of your expertise on weapons systems etc as far superior to mine, but I'm not so confident in your assessment of people. Both the Ukrainians and the Russians...and for that matter, the neighbors and the US.

So, I think we need to stop assuming defeat and instead look at what it will take to win, which by definition means repelling Russia from Ukraine.

My far less informed assessment of the weapons is that Ukraine needs more weapons, more firepower, especially that which can destroy the Russian forward capabilities, whether on land or air, and then to be able to strike at their supply lines and their stand off missile capabilities. And my assessment is that'll take time, much more time.

But that's what the Ukrainians want, and as long as they believe that fighting is the right path, I think we should support them to win, not show, place or lose.

None of the "experts" who are paid to opine or analyze predicted the way this war proceeded in the opening phase.
Even our publicly released intell predicted Kyiv would fall within 72 hours.

In modern warfare, esprit & morale only count for so much. Weapons systems capabilities, firepower & logistics eventually carry the day.
Imo, If we ever get the S-300's & Harpoon coastal defense batteries to the Ukrainians, they might have a chance, but time is running out.
What long range weapons do you propose we provide & how do we get them in the hands of Ukrainians capable of using them ?

I'm not talking very long range, though yes, the S-300 and Harpoon are classified as such. I think the Ukrainians need to keep doing strikes like they did to the fuel depot inside Russia. That was just helicopter delivered. I keep saying drones, and certainly the Ukrainians are using Switchblades to good effect, so folks like Petraeus are calling for getting thousands more to them, but I also think that our US technologies should get deployed in a counteroffensive. Yes, the air is contested. But they're needed in the fight, IMO. If there's a better answer, fine by me. But the battle should be fought to win.

I'm not remotely an expert in what tactics, systems, would be most effective, but yeah, I think the Ukrainians have proven to have the morale advantage to such an extent that they can drive the Russians into retreat. Heck, the Russians are having to bring in Syrian forces in because their own forces are in retreat.

Davis Ignatius on self-destructive perseverance. Ukraine may never be in a better position to make a deal.

Despite their words to the contrary, imo --the Biden admin & W EUro allies want Zelensky to make a deal.
They are not pressuring our E NATO allies to transfer their Soviet legacy weapons fast enough to make the critical difference.
The UK, Poles & Balts want Zelensky to fight on. Unsure about the central EUro allies. All are feeling the impact of sanctions & refugee flow.
The Biden admin wants this to end. They need Russia to force an Iran deal.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... l-choices/

Opinion: Painful choices lie in the path to peace in Ukraine
by David Ignatius, Columnist, April 1, 2022

In the agonizing final years of the Vietnam War, a strategist named Fred Iklé wrote a treatise titled “Every War Must End.” His basic theme was that “wars are easier to start than to stop” — a message that applies powerfully now to the conflict in Ukraine.

Russia and Ukraine have been meeting for preliminary peace talks in Turkey this week, which has raised hopes for a settlement. Both sides have described the same basic terms for resolving the conflict: In exchange for a halt in the fighting, Ukraine would agree to a neutral military status that wouldn’t threaten Russia.

But this formula masks painful choices: Such a pact would grant Russian President Vladimir Putin at least partial victory. For many in Ukraine and the West, that is unacceptable. Putin launched an unprovoked, illegal invasion. His army committed atrocities against civilians. He shouldn’t be rewarded for such behavior.

The Biden administration’s view is that it’s up to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to decide whether to settle for neutrality or keep fighting for a better deal. “The Ukrainians will have to decide when the situation on the ground is ripe for a settlement,” argues Stephen Hadley, a former national security adviser to President George W. Bush who keeps close contact with the Biden team.

After fighting so valiantly, Ukrainians won’t want a settlement that leaves the country disarmed and vulnerable to a future attack. “This is viable to me in only one way — the kind of neutrality that Switzerland has — fully armed, with a citizen army,” Konstantin Gryshchenko, an influential former foreign minister of Ukraine, told me in an interview.

The Russian military has performed poorly so far, and some Ukrainians think more fighting will bring victory. But U.S. officials specializing in Russia are skeptical. Russia is a large country with the ability to resupply and reposition its forces; Ukraine is a relatively small one that’s short on the essentials for survival. The war is 40 days old; who can say what the battlefield situation might be in six months or a year?

Iklé offered a useful caution: “It often happens in wars that the weaker party makes no attempt to seek peace while its military strength can still influence the enemy, but fights until it has lost all its power to bargain.” He called this “self-destructive perseverance.”

Iklé was similarly skeptical of punitive tactics such as Russia’s seeming determination to bomb its way to a desirable settlement. “Inflicting ‘punishment’ on the enemy nation is not only an ineffective strategy for ending a war, it may well have side effects that actually hasten the defeat of the side that relies on that strategy,” he wrote.

Often, wars don’t end with a peace treaty but a cease-fire that leaves forces in place along a “line of control.” Some analysts think Russia may be moving toward such an outcome by consolidating its forces in a swath of southeastern Ukraine that could eventually stretch from Odessa to the Donbas region.

Such partition lines are messy but can be surprisingly durable. North and South Korea are still separated without a formal peace treaty. A disputed line of control separates India and Pakistan, and also India and China. Vietnam was similarly partitioned for decades.

Harvard’s Graham Allison argues that such a division could allow the Western-allied part of Ukraine to prosper. Before the Russian invasion, he contends, Ukraine was a failing state — one of the rare post-Soviet republics whose real gross domestic product per capita actually declined after 1991. A future Western Ukraine might become a version of South Korea, Allison says.

As Russia and Ukraine exchange peace proposals, the United States and its allies are subtly pressuring Russia through what has been their best tool — the release of declassified intelligence. The latest installment was a series of statements this week by U.S. and British officials arguing that Putin’s bloody invasion was marked by the Russian leader’s delusion and the incompetence of his advisers. “Putin’s advisers are afraid to tell him the truth,” but “the extent of these misjudgments must be crystal clear to the regime,” argued Jeremy Fleming, director of Britain’s code-breaking agency GCHQ, in a speech on Thursday.

That zinger was aimed directly at the Kremlin, and it could have several interesting consequences: Putin may further blame his military and intelligence chiefs for failing to warn him of the disaster ahead; the generals and spies may further resent their remote president who has waged what Fleming described as his “personal war”; and the Russian people may mistrust both Putin and his security chiefs.

The most hopeful development I saw in this week’s peace feelers was a statement by Russian negotiator Vladimir Medinsky that, although Moscow rejects Ukrainian membership of NATO, it “has no objection to Ukraine’s aspirations to join the European Union.”

Maybe that is a building block for a real settlement. For a European Ukraine would represent a profound defeat for Putin’s dream of hegemony over Kyiv. That’s an essential requirement for a peace deal, along with stopping the killing.

Holding the Black Sea port city of Mykolaiv is critical to blocking the path to Odesa & maintaining access to the Black Sea for a partitioned Ukraine. The battle there is instructive of the likely long term impact of the air war disparity.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mykolaiv- ... -1.6404534

[MDlaxfan76]

Prime Video suggested the move: Anthropoid.

Relevant.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Prime Video suggested the move: Anthropoid.

Relevant.

Saw it recently….it was excellent

[admin]

Still openly rooting for Putin.

Doc (and all), no personal attacks.

[Brooklyn]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/01/us/p ... raine.html

U.S. Will Help Transfer Soviet-Made Tanks to Ukraine
The transfer, a response to a request from Ukraine’s president, will mark the first time the Biden administration has helped send tanks in the five-week-old war.

We should be sending tanks to Putin.

Meanwhile, Biden's approval ratings tank @ 40% -- the lowest of his Presidency, so far.

What makes you think I care about Joe Biden's approval rating? He's your commander in chief, you should be more supportive and respectful. He's on our team.

I was trying to chat about Putin's reportedly high approval ratings on You Tube's erroneously named "Agenda Free" channel. But nobody on this patently anti Putin, anti Russia channel would touch the subject. All they cared about was presenting Ukraine as an innocent victim of foreign aggression, notwithstanding its suppression of rights for the people of Donbas who voted for secession in democratically held elections.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/01/us/p ... raine.html

U.S. Will Help Transfer Soviet-Made Tanks to Ukraine
The transfer, a response to a request from Ukraine’s president, will mark the first time the Biden administration has helped send tanks in the five-week-old war.

We should be sending tanks to Putin.

Meanwhile, Biden's approval ratings tank @ 40% -- the lowest of his Presidency, so far.

What makes you think I care about Joe Biden's approval rating? He's your commander in chief, you should be more supportive and respectful. He's on our team.

I was trying to chat about Putin's reportedly high approval ratings on You Tube's erroneously named "Agenda Free" channel. But nobody on this patently anti Putin, anti Russia channel would touch the subject. All they cared about was presenting Ukraine as an innocent victim of foreign aggression, notwithstanding its suppression of rights for the people of Donbas who voted for secession in democratically held elections.

Not sure what “innocent” means. Wait until China invades this country to liberate the natives.

[Brooklyn]

Wait until China invades this country to liberate the natives.

On LP we used to have weekly allegations that it was Iran that was about to start WW III. This notwithstanding the fact that it was traitor Bush who was fomenting war and killing innocent people by the thousands every week. Whatever the case, it's not our war and none of our g0d@mn business. We have enough people dying here due to lack of health care and other things. That should be priority 1.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/sp ... epression/

“Throughout 2021, the Kremlin tightened the screws on its opponents – including supporters of jailed opposition leader Alexei Navalny – using a combination of arrests, internet censorship and blacklists. The crackdown accelerated after Russia invaded Ukraine. Now a Reuters data analysis and interviews with dozens of people chart these tactics’ success in eroding civil freedoms.”

[old salt]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

Ukraine Isn’t yet a ‘Strategic Defeat’ for Putin
by The Editorial Board, April 3, 2022

The human carnage and ruins of Bucha, a suburb of Kyiv, were on display this weekend after Russian troops withdrew. It’s a horror show, with bodies of unarmed civilians lying in the street, some reportedly shot in the back of the head. Some appear to have been executed. This is the gruesome legacy of Vladimir Putin’s invasion that the world will have to consider as part of its calculations as his war of attempted conquest continues.

***
Western journalists were able to see and confirm the Bucha destruction as they entered the suburb after the last Russian troops retreated on Friday. Russian tank columns had moved through the town as they sought to surround and lay siege to Kyiv from multiple directions. They were stopped by fierce Ukrainian resistance, but not before laying waste to much of the city and, on the visual evidence, murdering its trapped population.

Readers can see the bodies in the streets in videos online, which appear to be real. They are proof of the modern world as it is. For liberal internationalists who think military force is no longer a dominant force in human affairs, behold the dead in Bucha, where illusions about the “rules-based international order” are buried with the bodies.

Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, called Russia’s war a “genocide” on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. Antony Blinken, the U.S. Secretary of State, called the scenes from Bucha “a punch to the gut” on CNN, though he declined to call them war crimes. He said the U.S. will collect evidence in Ukraine and make a judgment.

There is already a strong prima facie case that Russia’s bombing of civilians is a war crime, even if it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide. Scenes like those in Bucha, Mariupol and Kharchiv will have to inform the extent of Ukrainian, and Western, cooperation with Mr. Putin even if he withdraws from all of Ukraine.

Is the U.S. really going to work with the Kremlin to implement another nuclear deal with Iran? And how is Russia still a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council? Its irrelevance in this conflict has exposed that the United Nations is worse than useless. It implicitly abets the world’s dictators by giving them political legitimacy.

The Russian withdrawal from the Kyiv region marks a setback for its original war aims, but it is still not a defeat for Mr. Putin. He might be regrouping his forces for another attempt on Kyiv later. Or perhaps he is changing his war aims to focus on conquering the east and south of the country. The Sunday bombardment by Russian ships suggests that Odessa, a city of about one million on the Black Sea, remains a Kremlin target.

Which makes it dismaying that Biden officials continue to assert that the war is a “strategic defeat” for Mr. Putin. They repeat the talking point as if they’re trying to persuade Americans that the war has already been won. “If you step back and look at this, this has already been a dramatic strategic setback for Russia and, I would say, a strategic defeat,” Mr. Blinken said on CNN Sunday.

No, it isn’t. Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians, inflicted untold damage, and still controls more territory than it did before the invasion. If Mr. Putin secures a truce that ratifies those territorial gains, he will have snatched the part of Ukraine that contains the bulk of its energy resources. He would be able to re-arm and continue as a lethal threat to the rest of Ukraine, the Zelensky government, and the border nations of NATO.

This is no doubt why Mr. Zelensky continues to express frustration with the reluctance of the U.S. and NATO to provide the heavy weapons Ukraine needs to go on offense and retake lost territory. Leaks on the weekend suggest the U.S. may finally be helping to get old Russian tanks into Ukraine, but the country also needs advanced antiship missiles to protect Odessa, as well as aircraft to attack Russian tanks and artillery, and anti-aircraft systems.

***
The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

[DocBarrister]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

Ukraine Isn’t yet a ‘Strategic Defeat’ for Putin
by The Editorial Board, April 3, 2022

The human carnage and ruins of Bucha, a suburb of Kyiv, were on display this weekend after Russian troops withdrew. It’s a horror show, with bodies of unarmed civilians lying in the street, some reportedly shot in the back of the head. Some appear to have been executed. This is the gruesome legacy of Vladimir Putin’s invasion that the world will have to consider as part of its calculations as his war of attempted conquest continues.

***
Western journalists were able to see and confirm the Bucha destruction as they entered the suburb after the last Russian troops retreated on Friday. Russian tank columns had moved through the town as they sought to surround and lay siege to Kyiv from multiple directions. They were stopped by fierce Ukrainian resistance, but not before laying waste to much of the city and, on the visual evidence, murdering its trapped population.

Readers can see the bodies in the streets in videos online, which appear to be real. They are proof of the modern world as it is. For liberal internationalists who think military force is no longer a dominant force in human affairs, behold the dead in Bucha, where illusions about the “rules-based international order” are buried with the bodies.

Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, called Russia’s war a “genocide” on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. Antony Blinken, the U.S. Secretary of State, called the scenes from Bucha “a punch to the gut” on CNN, though he declined to call them war crimes. He said the U.S. will collect evidence in Ukraine and make a judgment.

There is already a strong prima facie case that Russia’s bombing of civilians is a war crime, even if it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide. Scenes like those in Bucha, Mariupol and Kharchiv will have to inform the extent of Ukrainian, and Western, cooperation with Mr. Putin even if he withdraws from all of Ukraine.

Is the U.S. really going to work with the Kremlin to implement another nuclear deal with Iran? And how is Russia still a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council? Its irrelevance in this conflict has exposed that the United Nations is worse than useless. It implicitly abets the world’s dictators by giving them political legitimacy.

The Russian withdrawal from the Kyiv region marks a setback for its original war aims, but it is still not a defeat for Mr. Putin. He might be regrouping his forces for another attempt on Kyiv later. Or perhaps he is changing his war aims to focus on conquering the east and south of the country. The Sunday bombardment by Russian ships suggests that Odessa, a city of about one million on the Black Sea, remains a Kremlin target.

Which makes it dismaying that Biden officials continue to assert that the war is a “strategic defeat” for Mr. Putin. They repeat the talking point as if they’re trying to persuade Americans that the war has already been won. “If you step back and look at this, this has already been a dramatic strategic setback for Russia and, I would say, a strategic defeat,” Mr. Blinken said on CNN Sunday.

No, it isn’t. Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians, inflicted untold damage, and still controls more territory than it did before the invasion. If Mr. Putin secures a truce that ratifies those territorial gains, he will have snatched the part of Ukraine that contains the bulk of its energy resources. He would be able to re-arm and continue as a lethal threat to the rest of Ukraine, the Zelensky government, and the border nations of NATO.

This is no doubt why Mr. Zelensky continues to express frustration with the reluctance of the U.S. and NATO to provide the heavy weapons Ukraine needs to go on offense and retake lost territory. Leaks on the weekend suggest the U.S. may finally be helping to get old Russian tanks into Ukraine, but the country also needs advanced antiship missiles to protect Odessa, as well as aircraft to attack Russian tanks and artillery, and anti-aircraft systems.

***
The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

Shouldn’t we be more critical of the lies coming out of Russia and Putin’s foreign ministry (and Putin himself)?

Blinken is on our side.

DocBarrister

[Typical Lax Dad]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

Ukraine Isn’t yet a ‘Strategic Defeat’ for Putin
by The Editorial Board, April 3, 2022

The human carnage and ruins of Bucha, a suburb of Kyiv, were on display this weekend after Russian troops withdrew. It’s a horror show, with bodies of unarmed civilians lying in the street, some reportedly shot in the back of the head. Some appear to have been executed. This is the gruesome legacy of Vladimir Putin’s invasion that the world will have to consider as part of its calculations as his war of attempted conquest continues.

***
Western journalists were able to see and confirm the Bucha destruction as they entered the suburb after the last Russian troops retreated on Friday. Russian tank columns had moved through the town as they sought to surround and lay siege to Kyiv from multiple directions. They were stopped by fierce Ukrainian resistance, but not before laying waste to much of the city and, on the visual evidence, murdering its trapped population.

Readers can see the bodies in the streets in videos online, which appear to be real. They are proof of the modern world as it is. For liberal internationalists who think military force is no longer a dominant force in human affairs, behold the dead in Bucha, where illusions about the “rules-based international order” are buried with the bodies.

Volodymyr Zelensky, the Ukrainian president, called Russia’s war a “genocide” on CBS’s “Face the Nation” on Sunday. Antony Blinken, the U.S. Secretary of State, called the scenes from Bucha “a punch to the gut” on CNN, though he declined to call them war crimes. He said the U.S. will collect evidence in Ukraine and make a judgment.

There is already a strong prima facie case that Russia’s bombing of civilians is a war crime, even if it doesn’t meet the definition of genocide. Scenes like those in Bucha, Mariupol and Kharchiv will have to inform the extent of Ukrainian, and Western, cooperation with Mr. Putin even if he withdraws from all of Ukraine.

Is the U.S. really going to work with the Kremlin to implement another nuclear deal with Iran? And how is Russia still a member of the United Nations Human Rights Council? Its irrelevance in this conflict has exposed that the United Nations is worse than useless. It implicitly abets the world’s dictators by giving them political legitimacy.

The Russian withdrawal from the Kyiv region marks a setback for its original war aims, but it is still not a defeat for Mr. Putin. He might be regrouping his forces for another attempt on Kyiv later. Or perhaps he is changing his war aims to focus on conquering the east and south of the country. The Sunday bombardment by Russian ships suggests that Odessa, a city of about one million on the Black Sea, remains a Kremlin target.

Which makes it dismaying that Biden officials continue to assert that the war is a “strategic defeat” for Mr. Putin. They repeat the talking point as if they’re trying to persuade Americans that the war has already been won. “If you step back and look at this, this has already been a dramatic strategic setback for Russia and, I would say, a strategic defeat,” Mr. Blinken said on CNN Sunday.

No, it isn’t. Russia has killed thousands of Ukrainians, inflicted untold damage, and still controls more territory than it did before the invasion. If Mr. Putin secures a truce that ratifies those territorial gains, he will have snatched the part of Ukraine that contains the bulk of its energy resources. He would be able to re-arm and continue as a lethal threat to the rest of Ukraine, the Zelensky government, and the border nations of NATO.

This is no doubt why Mr. Zelensky continues to express frustration with the reluctance of the U.S. and NATO to provide the heavy weapons Ukraine needs to go on offense and retake lost territory. Leaks on the weekend suggest the U.S. may finally be helping to get old Russian tanks into Ukraine, but the country also needs advanced antiship missiles to protect Odessa, as well as aircraft to attack Russian tanks and artillery, and anti-aircraft systems.

***
The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

the United States of America made Putin cleanse folk on the way out. He’s justified.

[old salt]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1
The Russian withdrawal from the Kyiv region marks a setback for its original war aims, but it is still not a defeat for Mr. Putin. He might be regrouping his forces for another attempt on Kyiv later. Or perhaps he is changing his war aims to focus on conquering the east and south of the country. The Sunday bombardment by Russian ships suggests that Odessa, a city of about one million on the Black Sea, remains a Kremlin target.

Which makes it dismaying that Biden officials continue to assert that the war is a “strategic defeat” for Mr. Putin. They repeat the talking point as if they’re trying to persuade Americans that the war has already been won. “If you step back and look at this, has already been a dramatic strategic setback for Russia and, I would say, a strategic defeat,” Mr. Blinken said on CNN Sunday.

The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

Shouldn’t we be more critical of the lies coming out of Russia and Putin’s foreign ministry (and Putin himself)?

Blinken is on our side.

DocBarrister

That's what we need, more rhetoric. The residents of Mariupol & Bucha are not celebrating Putin's strategic defeat.

Where are the S-300's, anti-ship missiles, counter battery radars, & Soviet legacy tanks, armor & artillery ?
If Odessa falls, Ukraine will be landlocked & any hope for an independent self-sustaining Ukraine is gone.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

Shouldn’t we be more critical of the lies coming out of Russia and Putin’s foreign ministry (and Putin himself)?

Blinken is on our side.

DocBarrister

That's what we need, more rhetoric. The residents of Mariupol & Bucha are not celebrating Putin's strategic defeat.

A nothing burger. We started it.

[old salt]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

Shouldn’t we be more critical of the lies coming out of Russia and Putin’s foreign ministry (and Putin himself)?

Blinken is on our side.

DocBarrister

That's what we need, more rhetoric. The residents of Mariupol & Bucha are not celebrating Putin's strategic defeat.

A nothing burger. We started it.

It's Trump's fault. This was part of his collusion with Putin.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

[Typical Lax Dad]

Poor Tony Blinken sounds like Baghdad Bob as he stands in front of a backdrop of smoke plumes from Odessa & declares Russia has suffered a strategic defeat.
https://thehill.com/news/sunday-talk-sh ... ic-defeat/

The WSJ dissents :

https://www.wsj.com/articles/strategic- ... _lead_pos1

The West’s goal shouldn’t be some abstract “strategic defeat” but an actual defeat that is obvious to everyone, including the Russian public. Ukraine will have to decide how long it is willing to fight. But as long as it is willing, the U.S. and NATO should provide all of the military and sanctions support it needs. If Mr. Putin gains from this war, there will be more invasions, more war crimes, and more horrific scenes like those in Bucha in the future.

Shouldn’t we be more critical of the lies coming out of Russia and Putin’s foreign ministry (and Putin himself)?

Blinken is on our side.

DocBarrister

That's what we need, more rhetoric. The residents of Mariupol & Bucha are not celebrating Putin's strategic defeat.

A nothing burger. We started it.

It's Trump's fault. This was part of his collusion with Putin.

[Seacoaster(1)]

A good rant/listen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAblAQENQhE

[Kismet]

Entitled "It's not genius. It's genocide."