IL Mid-season AA 2022

[molo]

I’m somewhat surprised that no one has contested LaSalla’s not making any of the teams, but even on his home board there seems to be acknowledgment that the Maryland game nullified some early season praise. Weirman should be first team. He’s the best player at his position and plays for the best team.

[LI_Lax14]

No Max Wauldbaum for J'ville? He has been a driving force of their success.

[TheBigIguana]

Am I to believe Matt Moore is not one of the top 16 attack-men in the country? Obviously these rankings don't mean much but I'm all for spirited debate

Moore absolutely has not been a top 16 attack man. He's had that type of career and has AA talent, but the production does not warrant AA consideration at this point (likely due to nagging injuries). He's on a great offense and draws the second pole, and yet still isn't in the top 30 in PPG.

As for the attack/middie debate, I think an argument can be made that a player warrants midfield consideration even if he plays every possession so long as he is operating up top like a midfielder; even in this era of increasingly position less lacrosse, I think there are nuances in how an attack man operates vs a middle that are also borne out in stats. That isn't the case with Dordevic however, as he has been initiating mostly from behind and from the low wing.

For me offenses are way too fluid to try and distinguish that way. Not to mention how much lacrosse you'd have to watch to actually do it. I think the only real distinguishing factor is coming off the field and how that impacts what you have to do in transition and on clears. So for me that is what needs to be taken into account.

You could also just make it 6 offensive players but then I think you're only keeping Handley in the first team and he's also played a decent amount of attack anyway. So you just wipe a whole group of players off the teams and unless you're intending to argue that the job is exactly the same, and someone probably will, I don't think you should do that.

On if the guy plays attack or middie, it's pretty simple to me. If you're consistently staying on the offensive side of the field and one of the 3 guys on the finishing end of fast breaks, you're playing attack. If not, you're playing middie, even if you're in on every offensive possession and dodging from behind the cage or the wings.

Yes that's how I feel too. And I believe for All America that is a distinction still worth making.

[jrn19]

Jake Stevens is another one mispositioned, he’s not a SSDM. He runs out on the 1st MF line on offense. He’s another Tinney or Conrad, not a shortie who stays on for offense sometimes

[MoralTerpitude]

I’m somewhat surprised that no one has contested LaSalla’s not making any of the teams, but even on his home board there seems to be acknowledgment that the Maryland game nullified some early season praise. Weirman should be first team. He’s the best player at his position and plays for the best team.

Good catch. FO is a pretty deep position, but until the Maryland game he played really well. The Notre Dame game wasn’t a great look either, as be barely topped 50% against two inexperienced guys, both of whom are under 50% for the season. An HM would probably have been about right.

[keno in reno]

Makar gotta be getting tired of this nonsense.
Geppert deserves some kind of recognition.
Khan struggled for a bit with the new system, but for a guy who wasn't mentioned at all, he sure seems as good as anyone on those lists right now.
Edit...wow no Malever!

[faircornell]

It seems like this is, to an extent, driven by the narrative that IL wants to pursue. (I agree that Piatelli should be at least HM).

An example of the narrative (and with no intention of causing offense to any player) is the goalie position. Dobson at St Bonaventure is an excellent goalie, and it's a great story. Dobson is from Canada (Hill Academy) and was the Bonnies first tender ever. His save percentage is around 66%. St Bonaventure has the 72nd strength of schedule according to Massey. Similarly, Hinks at Dartmouth, also a great "turnaround" story, is saving 57%, wiith the 45th strength of schedule in the country.

If you compare that with Ivy goalies with tougher jobs, it's difficult to say, really, who is the better goalie. Paquette at Yale is saving at 56%, with the 7th strength of schedule in the country. Ireland at Cornell has a 53% save record with the 12th strength of schedule. I imagine that there are other examples.

[kramerica.inc]

Rezanka is much better than 3rd team. His CTs as a ssdm are insane.

[rolldodge]

Am I to believe Matt Moore is not one of the top 16 attack-men in the country? Obviously these rankings don't mean much but I'm all for spirited debate

Moore absolutely has not been a top 16 attack man. He's had that type of career and has AA talent, but the production does not warrant AA consideration at this point (likely due to nagging injuries). He's on a great offense and draws the second pole, and yet still isn't in the top 30 in PPG.

As for the attack/middie debate, I think an argument can be made that a player warrants midfield consideration even if he plays every possession so long as he is operating up top like a midfielder; even in this era of increasingly position less lacrosse, I think there are nuances in how an attack man operates vs a middle that are also borne out in stats. That isn't the case with Dordevic however, as he has been initiating mostly from behind and from the low wing.

If it’s your job to get back on defense, or to get to the box to sub, you are a midfielder. If not, you are an attackman. It doesn’t matter where you dodge from.

[Atticus]

It seems like this is, to an extent, driven by the narrative that IL wants to pursue. (I agree that Piatelli should be at least HM).

An example of the narrative (and with no intention of causing offense to any player) is the goalie position. Dobson at St Bonaventure is an excellent goalie, and it's a great story. Dobson is from Canada (Hill Academy) and was the Bonnies first tender ever. His save percentage is around 66%. St Bonaventure has the 72nd strength of schedule according to Massey. Similarly, Hinks at Dartmouth, also a great "turnaround" story, is saving 57%, wiith the 45th strength of schedule in the country.

If you compare that with Ivy goalies with tougher jobs, it's difficult to say, really, who is the better goalie. Paquette at Yale is saving at 56%, with the 7th strength of schedule in the country. Ireland at Cornell has a 53% save record with the 12th strength of schedule. I imagine that there are other examples.

I’ve always felt like these things average themselves out. Maybe tougher to play the 7th hardest schedule, or maybe easier to play with UA and DI All Americans galore on front of you up the entire field. They are all damned good and it’s only a midseason checkin, right?

[joewillie78]

Dordevic, Eric Peters, and CJ Kirst need to be higher. Myers needs to be lower. I think Nichtern and Skalniak could both be first teamers, but not sure who swaps out.

Kavanagh is only an HM, and yet he still seems overrated. The guy shoots 24%, and has shot worse every year. Maybe he’ll move to SSDM like Fairman did.

How the heck did Piatelli not make the list at all? I think Khan on the strength of his really good games should be on the list as well.

No one is a bigger fan than I of CJ Kirst. He has been fabulous and as I said in another thread, he is one ofthe best groundball attackmen that I have seen in a long time, which combined with his great shot from both sides and seeing the field so well with his passes, he is the complete package and we are lucky to have him for the next 4 years.
That being said, he has only played 8 games in his career ( and he's been great) so in my opinion, already getting HM AA, is so impressive and we all know, he will only get better, and in my opinion, sometime in the future, he will be a 1st team AA attackmen.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

[MoralTerpitude]

Makar gotta be getting tired of this nonsense.
Geppert deserves some kind of recognition.
Khan struggled for a bit with the new system, but for a guy who wasn't mentioned at all, he sure seems as good as anyone on those lists right now.
Edit...wow no Malever!

With Maryland it’s tough. If Malever wasn’t playing alongside both Khan and Wiz, with Donville and Long behind him in midfield, he’d be asked to do much more, and his stats would be better. On a lesser team he’d certainly make the list.

Same with Maryland’s defense. They’re third in the nation in adjusted efficiency, yet they face fewer shots and possessions because of Wierman’s dominance, and the offense’s top-ranked time of possession. So it’s tough to reward them with alot of AAs.

Of course if they win it all, they’ll be rewarded at the end of the season.

[MoralTerpitude]

Dordevic, Eric Peters, and CJ Kirst need to be higher. Myers needs to be lower. I think Nichtern and Skalniak could both be first teamers, but not sure who swaps out.

Kavanagh is only an HM, and yet he still seems overrated. The guy shoots 24%, and has shot worse every year. Maybe he’ll move to SSDM like Fairman did.

How the heck did Piatelli not make the list at all? I think Khan on the strength of his really good games should be on the list as well.

No one is a bigger fan than I of CJ Kirst. He has been fabulous and as I said in another thread, he is one ofthe best groundball attackmen that I have seen in a long time, which combined with his great shot from both sides and seeing the field so well with his passes, he is the complete package and we are lucky to have him for the next 4 years.
That being said, he has only played 8 games in his career ( and he's been great) so in my opinion, already getting HM AA, is so impressive and we all know, he will only get better, and in my opinion, sometime in the future, he will be a 1st team AA attackmen.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

Hopefully by the end of the season.

[faircornell]

It seems like this is, to an extent, driven by the narrative that IL wants to pursue. (I agree that Piatelli should be at least HM).

An example of the narrative (and with no intention of causing offense to any player) is the goalie position. Dobson at St Bonaventure is an excellent goalie, and it's a great story. Dobson is from Canada (Hill Academy) and was the Bonnies first tender ever. His save percentage is around 66%. St Bonaventure has the 72nd strength of schedule according to Massey. Similarly, Hinks at Dartmouth, also a great "turnaround" story, is saving 57%, wiith the 45th strength of schedule in the country.

If you compare that with Ivy goalies with tougher jobs, it's difficult to say, really, who is the better goalie. Paquette at Yale is saving at 56%, with the 7th strength of schedule in the country. Ireland at Cornell has a 53% save record with the 12th strength of schedule. I imagine that there are other examples.

I’ve always felt like these things average themselves out. Maybe tougher to play the 7th hardest schedule, or maybe easier to play with UA and DI All Americans galore on front of you up the entire field. They are all damned good and it’s only a midseason checkin, right?

Agreed. I was trying to avoid a "rant". I suspect that the end of season results will be much different.

[lorin]

Most of these ratings look spot on to me except one. The Dartmouth goalie Daniel Hincks should absolutely be higher than honorable mention.
GOBIGRED
Joewillie78

Really Telvin nice kid but 4 and 7 give me a break, no Waldbaum from Jacksonville, really would be nice to see people vote on first 8 games in 2022.

[PALax11]

Nichtern leads D1 in points and points per game. May get more attention than anyone due to depth. Doesn't get an extra year like everyone else. Deserves 1st team.

[10stone5]

I know that Hanley was playing attack for the first game or so, but the last time I saw him play, he was playing midfield. He was in for every offensive possession, but he did leave the field when Penn was on d and entered through the box when they had the ball on o. He was used, in my view, more like Cowley was at Stony Brook tha the was Kelly was at Maryland.

Handley seems to get swapped out at attack in the second
quarter, he’ll do things like quick out of the box where the other
guys haven’t set their mid yet, and he can take advantage
of these mini fast breaks.