Johns Hopkins 2022

[Big Dog]

Michigan needs to fire its DC - Jays left open all over the field
That said - fewer turnovers - Kirson holding his own and a little better on non face-off ground balls was a big part of the difference
Smith is the type of player you want on your competitive team - more please
Who might have suggested Angelus was playing out of position?
Talk about a shake-up - bench your senior 3 time captain - demote your 5 year grad student to 2nd mid-field
Evans has a bit of game
Keogh and Lily both took stupid shots that could have cost the team
KInd of hard to belive Hopkins won given that Evans and Bauer can hardly be considered D1 players according to a poster
The Epstein benching could be more permanent - if you subtract the Towson game - his play has been meh to meh minus to worse - 13 goals in 9 games (minus Townson) is not going to get you AA recognition - his decision on the EMO was terrible

Every young player should be required to take a class from Don Zimmerman - he errs on the side of being positive but good lord is knowledge and fundamentals just dripping from that man

+ 1. I really enjoyed his broadcast and this fan learned a few things. (not that I'm knowledgeable about fundamentals anyway)

[Wheels]

The Epstein benching could be more permanent - if you subtract the Towson game - his play has been meh to meh minus to worse - 13 goals in 9 games (minus Townson) is not going to get you AA recognition - his decision on the EMO was terrible

Last year when I'd pop on here and say I was willing the "Epstein to Maryland" into existence, people thought I was joking. Imagine this forum if Joey puts up 40+points wearing white/red and black/gold.

<>insert<>popcorn eating<>gif<>

[Sagittarius A*]

What an absolutely horsecrap call that was

Narewski clearly stepped in the goal mouth after he scored. Can't do that

Keogh's shot was horrible. That last goal is on him

I thought you had to pretty much land in the goal mouth to have the goal disallowed.
I was at the game and hated that call. It was a two goal swing gift wrapped. Total BS.
Bauer looked really good. Where's he been all season?

[molo]

Zim’s a few years younger than I am, but he makes me feel young. Most of his comments remind me of what I heard my father and later my hs coaches say back in the 60s. Lots of it is true, but occasionally a cliché creeps in.

[HopFan16]

Bauer looked really good. Where's he been all season?

Before 51 can say it, I will: Like Angelus, he's an attackman who's been playing out of position.

Kid made winning plays all over the field today. On the clear, scoring, feeding, picking up that really scrappy GB with three Michigan defenders on him to save possession.

In the postgame video Hopkins posted Angelus alludes to the fact that he is more comfortable operating at X than up top. I'm sure that was an understatement. But this is the roster Petro left this staff with. They have a million attackman and most of them have been out of position for years because you can only play three at a time. It came in handy today when you've got other guys struggling and you can just plug Angelus and Bauer in and have them be productive there but it's not a sustainable way to build a program longterm. There's a reason Milliman's first three recruiting classes — if you count the current freshmen — only have 1-2 attackmen per class and a TON of midfielders.

Another important factor today: special teams. Man-up and man-down were both good.

Clearing against Michigan's 10-man was also fairly solid.

Narewski is clearly still working his way back into form but he got hot for a brief but vital stretch in the 4th quarter to keep Michigan's offense off the field at a time when they could have cut into the lead. Assuming he made it out of the game unscathed that could be important for his confidence moving forward.

[primitiveskills]

What an absolutely horsecrap call that was

Narewski clearly stepped in the goal mouth after he scored. Can't do that

Keogh's shot was horrible. That last goal is on him

I thought you had to pretty much land in the goal mouth to have the goal disallowed.
I was at the game and hated that call. It was a two goal swing gift wrapped. Total BS.
Bauer looked really good. Where's he been all season?

My thoughts as well. When is the play considered dead? He did not enter the crease in the act of shooting; seemed like the ball was in the net and he had taken at least 2 extra steps. My understanding is the spirit of the rule was to protect goaltenders from being injured (although that is dubious; how many times has a goalie been injured on a crease dive?). There was zero risk to the Michigan goalie there.

[HopFan16]

My understanding was you can't touch the goal mouth basically ever — even if it's well after the ball goes in the net. Outer crease after the ball crosses the plane is fine but not the goal mouth. Dumb rule, but it is the rule. For now. Can't imagine it doesn't get tweaked at some point. Seems like it's widely hated.

Noticed Daniels and Baker were there to unveil the Jerry Schnydman patch on the field. Is 06 in the fetal position? D3 players Bauer and Evans combined for 5 pts, the student section was packed and energetic, the evil president and his AD henchwomen were there in support, and they somehow managed to do it all without Conner Delaney!

One last thing on this game: Grimes did not find the score sheet but it's so obvious his presence on the field positively impacts the offense. He's got a gravity to him, defenses have to pay attention and can't just leave him alone. It opens things up a little bit for other guys. They know he's a threat to uncork one and he does a good job of drawing defenders into his orbit before he moves the ball. It especially helps to have him out there when teams switch to zone.

[Big Dog]

My understanding was you can't touch the goal mouth basically ever — even if it's well after the ball goes in the net. Outer crease after the ball crosses the plane is fine but not the goal mouth. Dumb rule, but it is the rule. For now. Can't imagine it doesn't get tweaked at some point. Seems like it's widely hated.

Correct: touch the 'goal mouth' and the goal is disallowed, and its a turnover, unless the offensive player also touches the keeper inside the goal mouth, in which case it is a TO and a 1-minute foul.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... hanges.pdf

[molo]

I would applaud any rule change that would eliminate tgd dive. I’m usually not so old school, but I’d make Zim look liberal on this one. A recently deceased UVA lax player started a bar here known as the crease, but I never once set foot inside. Why not? Because when you play attack you stay the hell out of the gd crease!

[HappyGilmore]

Second guessing coaches is practically the definition of what fans do.

I've managed to follow Syracuse for 40 years without second guessing Simmie or Desko. I must have magic beans.

Or, I'm not at practices, and don't know what the F I'm talking about.

Why is lacrosse fandom full of overly sensitive types?

Oh, i'm not sensitive. I'm just here to mock your stupid and uninformed comments, Doc. Because that's "part of being a fan", right?

20 years of being wrong, Doc. That has never stopped you before...I'm not naive enough to think you're going to stop being wrong.....

Weird … all this anger and bitterness, and you’re not even a Hopkins fan.

Virtually no one on this forum qualifies as a lacrosse expert, so why not let us have some fun? You apparently fancy yourself some sort of lacrosse guru. Who’s the one having weird delusions of grandeur?

As for Epstein … he’s a leader respected by the team and elected as their leader. There’s only two three-time captains in Hopkins lacrosse history. By all reports, he’s a workaholic and a good student. He leads your team in points. He also has more career points than any other player on the roster. If coaches can’t find a place for that kind of player in their lineup, or if they are having “accountability” issues with him … then, yeah, I’m going to question those coaches rather than that young man.

DocBarrister

Problem with Epstein is his not Canadian.

[molo]

Am I understanding you correctly or reading too much into this?

[Sagittarius A*]

As for Epstein … he’s a leader respected by the team and elected as their leader. There’s only two three-time captains in Hopkins lacrosse history. By all reports, he’s a workaholic and a good student. He leads your team in points. He also has more career points than any other player on the roster. If coaches can’t find a place for that kind of player in their lineup, or if they are having “accountability” issues with him … then, yeah, I’m going to question those coaches rather than that young man.

DocBarrister

Problem with Epstein is his not Canadian.

My guess would be the problem with Epstein is his lack of ball security. He has too many turnovers and makes too many bad decisions, like the ill advised pass today on the EMO. He also lacks athleticism. Bauer was an upgrade. He got points minus the turnovers, plus he helped out on clears and ground balls. I suspect Epstein will have to work his way back on the field, but today's performance won't help him. Both Captains, Lyne and Epstein were relegated to EMO/Man Down today. DeSimone looked better today at midfield than he has the past few weeks struggling at attack.

[wgdsr]

My understanding was you can't touch the goal mouth basically ever — even if it's well after the ball goes in the net. Outer crease after the ball crosses the plane is fine but not the goal mouth. Dumb rule, but it is the rule. For now. Can't imagine it doesn't get tweaked at some point. Seems like it's widely hated.

Correct: touch the 'goal mouth' and the goal is disallowed, and its a turnover, unless the offensive player also touches the keeper inside the goal mouth, in which case it is a TO and a 1-minute foul.

https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/champi ... hanges.pdf

the rules aren't going to stop fans of all colors from going bats*** crazy when they're enforced. time honored tradition.

on another note, watching pton yale... for the life of me i can't see a goal mouth on one end on a yale lacrosse field that has bright yellow lines for mlax otherwise. weird.

[Hail to the Victors]

At the first Homecoming game since 2019. There was energy in the stands and an abundance of energy on the field. FO #39 is a warrior! Happy to see the ball movement, the clearing (props to #7) and a team on the field that looked like they enjoyed playing the game!

At one point a MI attack man lost his stick over the midfield line by about five yards trying to throw a check. The official picked it up and gave it back to him. Moments later he is receiving a clearing pass and it leads directly to a goal. My question-shouldn’t the official move the stick off the field and the player leave the field through the box in that situation? I don’t remember ever seeing an official return a stick from anywhere on the field much less over the midfield line. I would appreciate an informed reply.

The ref should either throw the stick off the field, or leave it there. The player cannot go OOB to retrieve the stick. He may leave the field of play thru the box, or even "exchange" sticks with another player on the field. The one thing the ref can not do is inject himself into the game by giving a player an advantage. For the TV watchers, it happened at 1:27 left in Q3. TV failed to pick up the ref's actions, but it was one of the worst pieces of refereeing we've ever seen. Just idiotic.

[wgdsr]

At the first Homecoming game since 2019. There was energy in the stands and an abundance of energy on the field. FO #39 is a warrior! Happy to see the ball movement, the clearing (props to #7) and a team on the field that looked like they enjoyed playing the game!

At one point a MI attack man lost his stick over the midfield line by about five yards trying to throw a check. The official picked it up and gave it back to him. Moments later he is receiving a clearing pass and it leads directly to a goal. My question-shouldn’t the official move the stick off the field and the player leave the field through the box in that situation? I don’t remember ever seeing an official return a stick from anywhere on the field much less over the midfield line. I would appreciate an informed reply.

The ref should either throw the stick off the field, or leave it there. The player cannot go OOB to retrieve the stick. He may leave the field of play thru the box, or even "exchange" sticks with another player on the field. The one thing the ref can not do is inject himself into the game by giving a player an advantage. For the TV watchers, it happened at 1:27 left in Q3. TV failed to pick up the ref's actions, but it was one of the worst pieces of refereeing we've ever seen. Just idiotic.

i've seen a lot worse. but that does sound ridiculous.

[wgdsr]

man imagine if Angelus had been playing attack all this time? kid is good

he put up points the same way epstein did against similar competition. doesn't have a major injury to overcome. maybe there's more in the tank.

[51percentcorn]

The Epstein saga is somewhat curious and unfortunate. When you go back to his freshmen year he was the lone bright spot on a poorly constructed team. The mid-fields were entirely converted attackmen - with the exception of the freshman Zinn and the senior Stagnitta. Epstein both ran the offense and still took 132 shots - 36% shooting and almost 50 goals with 25 helpers. Still turned it over on average twice per game but didn't seem such an issue because he had the ball all the time.

Then the knee injury - COVID - and a new staff that changed the offense and took several of those frehmen year responsibilities away. He's an extremely competitive person and is his own worst critic I am sure. I woud love for this movie to have a happy ending at Hopkins but it might be a film noir rather than a rom com.

So I think any Hopkins posters that haven't been paying attention to the changes made since the beginning of 2021 - DeSimone to X attack (ironically - is that shelved because of an unknown injury since he's dropped off a cliff this year) Epstein to wing shooter - Wlliams first at mid-field etc. might have taken note of:
- Epstein benched
- DeSimone to second mid-field
- Angelus to X attack
- Krampf and Bauer sharing Epstein's position
- McDermott and Evans to 1st mid-field
- Keogh to 2nd mid-field
- Smith continuing as a starter on D

Interesting to see if all this continues in New Brunswick. I imagine it might. Certainly Bauer has earned the opportunity to see the field more - but we have seen less heralded players before have nice games and then it does not sustain itself for whatever reason. If he plays attack - he needs to contribute points - if Epstein is back and he is a mid-fielder then it's more of crapshoot and less opportunities.

[youthathletics]

At the first Homecoming game since 2019. There was energy in the stands and an abundance of energy on the field. FO #39 is a warrior! Happy to see the ball movement, the clearing (props to #7) and a team on the field that looked like they enjoyed playing the game!

At one point a MI attack man lost his stick over the midfield line by about five yards trying to throw a check. The official picked it up and gave it back to him. Moments later he is receiving a clearing pass and it leads directly to a goal. My question-shouldn’t the official move the stick off the field and the player leave the field through the box in that situation? I don’t remember ever seeing an official return a stick from anywhere on the field much less over the midfield line. I would appreciate an informed reply.

The ref should either throw the stick off the field, or leave it there. The player cannot go OOB to retrieve the stick. He may leave the field of play thru the box, or even "exchange" sticks with another player on the field. The one thing the ref can not do is inject himself into the game by giving a player an advantage. For the TV watchers, it happened at 1:27 left in Q3. TV failed to pick up the ref's actions, but it was one of the worst pieces of refereeing we've ever seen. Just idiotic.

i've seen a lot worse. but that does sound ridiculous.

I'd really love to see the rulebook specs on this one, do not recall seeing this before. Ref should not throw stick OOB unless it was broken. Why?....b/c the simple thing was for a player on the stick side of the field to step over and the attackman could then go pick his stick back up, then players transfer at midfield again...unless a rule deems that as illegal procedure, but I do not believe it is. Because the player was not involved with the play of the game at the time, and I see no place where the Official needed to stop play, it seems the ref could 'legally' return the players equipment.

Found it:
**********
Illegal Procedure
SECTION 6. Any action on the part of players or substitutes of a technical
nature that is not in conformity with the rules and regulations governing the
play of the game shall be termed illegal procedure. The following are examples:
a. Touching the ball. A player may not touch a live ball with their hands. The
exception is the goalkeeper while both the goalkeeper and the ball are inside
the crease, as provided in Rule 4-20-a.
A.R. 19. A1 takes a shot. Goalkeeper B1 trips. B2 jumps in the crease and
bats the ball away with a free hand. RULING: Technical foul. The ball is
awarded to Team A outside the attack area.
b. Illegal actions with crosse. A player shall not:
1. Throw the crosse. Exception: Throwing the crosse at the ball, the goal
cage, a player or game personnel shall be deemed unsportsmanlike
conduct.
2. Participate in play without a crosse until the player regains a crosse, except
if exiting the field without a broken crosse.

Should a player lose their crosse or other equipment in any legal way,
so that repossession of the crosse would cause the player to go offside or
enter the crease, the player shall either substitute off the field or stay out
of the play until the player can legally retrieve their equipment.

Should the crosse be in the crease so as to possibly interfere with the
goalkeeper’s play of an attempted shot at the goal, play shall be suspended
immediately
**********

[wgdsr]

which are you saying or did you post the rules after your original post?
it says the player has to get it. that's often as close as you can get with these rulemakers to say the ref can't.

[cbrass]

At the first Homecoming game since 2019. There was energy in the stands and an abundance of energy on the field. FO #39 is a warrior! Happy to see the ball movement, the clearing (props to #7) and a team on the field that looked like they enjoyed playing the game!

At one point a MI attack man lost his stick over the midfield line by about five yards trying to throw a check. The official picked it up and gave it back to him. Moments later he is receiving a clearing pass and it leads directly to a goal. My question-shouldn’t the official move the stick off the field and the player leave the field through the box in that situation? I don’t remember ever seeing an official return a stick from anywhere on the field much less over the midfield line. I would appreciate an informed reply.

The ref should either throw the stick off the field, or leave it there. The player cannot go OOB to retrieve the stick. He may leave the field of play thru the box, or even "exchange" sticks with another player on the field. The one thing the ref can not do is inject himself into the game by giving a player an advantage. For the TV watchers, it happened at 1:27 left in Q3. TV failed to pick up the ref's actions, but it was one of the worst pieces of refereeing we've ever seen. Just idiotic.

i've seen a lot worse. but that does sound ridiculous.

I'd really love to see the rulebook specs on this one, do not recall seeing this before. Ref should not throw stick OOB unless it was broken. Why?....b/c the simple thing was for a player on the stick side of the field to step over and the attackman could then go pick his stick back up, then players transfer at midfield again...unless a rule deems that as illegal procedure, but I do not believe it is. Because the player was not involved with the play of the game at the time, and I see no place where the Official needed to stop play, it seems the ref could 'legally' return the players equipment.

Found it:
**********
Illegal Procedure
SECTION 6. Any action on the part of players or substitutes of a technical
nature that is not in conformity with the rules and regulations governing the
play of the game shall be termed illegal procedure. The following are examples:
a. Touching the ball. A player may not touch a live ball with their hands. The
exception is the goalkeeper while both the goalkeeper and the ball are inside
the crease, as provided in Rule 4-20-a.
A.R. 19. A1 takes a shot. Goalkeeper B1 trips. B2 jumps in the crease and
bats the ball away with a free hand. RULING: Technical foul. The ball is
awarded to Team A outside the attack area.
b. Illegal actions with crosse. A player shall not:
1. Throw the crosse. Exception: Throwing the crosse at the ball, the goal
cage, a player or game personnel shall be deemed unsportsmanlike
conduct.
2. Participate in play without a crosse until the player regains a crosse, except
if exiting the field without a broken crosse.

Should a player lose their crosse or other equipment in any legal way,
so that repossession of the crosse would cause the player to go offside or
enter the crease, the player shall either substitute off the field or stay out
of the play until the player can legally retrieve their equipment.

Should the crosse be in the crease so as to possibly interfere with the
goalkeeper’s play of an attempted shot at the goal, play shall be suspended
immediately
**********

Thanks for the replies. I reached out to a friend who is a longtime ref and he said that the crosse should not be returned to the player. The player should leave the field. Sending someone back into the offensive zone so a player can retrieve their crosse in the defensive zone seems like not a good option. Just get off the field and get a new stick or sub.

Against DE, Hop was closest to a shot going out but the player chased to the spot did not have his crosse? Took a moment but the refs realized the infraction and gave DE the ball.