All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

Spare us the propaganda.
NATO is a defensive alliance whose members have an overwhelming offensive capability, now deployed right up to Russia's border.
"Defensive" is just a word. A rhetorical device, just as Putin saying that his current undertaking is a defensive effort to defend Russia's borders.
Ask Serbia or Libya how defensive NATO is. Or Iraq & Afghanistan.

Not propaganda. Who "started it" in Libya and Serbia?

You believe Putin is LEGITIMATELY concerned that NATO will invade Russia. is that what you're telling us?

NATO started it in Libya & Serbia. Neither invaded a NATO country.
"Legitimate" concern is not relevant. Capability is.
Do we presently consider Mexico a threat ? How about when the cartels take over ?

[old salt]

Finally, some reporting on what the Ukrainian Air Force is doing.
This may tip the risk vs reward equation in favor of transferring the Migs.
The NATO meeting is the time to re-consider

(NYT article, avail w/o paywall)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/wor ... 386795.cms

Very little reporting on the status & availability for transfer of Harpoon shore defense missile batteries.
NATO member Denmark is the only user I've found, in numerous illustrations.
https://navalpost.com/taiwan-harpoon-co ... ry-delays/
It would be hard to get them in position, but they are just what is needed to threaten Russian warships in the Black Sea & Sea of Azov.

[a fan]

This is proving that Putin is not paranoid. He is rational to feel threatened by a NATO Ukraine on his border.

This is the part i don't get. Will you elaborate? Would a "NATO Ukraine" EVER think of actually invading Russia? Parts of Russia? You think that Ukraine "invading" Crimea to get it back is what makes Vlad feel threatened?

NATO is a defensive alliance. Have they EVER acted "offensively" or threatened such behavior??

..

Spare us the propaganda.

It's also propaganda that Putin (and American pundits) have "forgotten" that Russia exchanged Ukraine's nukes for security agreements, OS.

You want an independent Ukraine? Give them their nukes back. Fake problem solved....no need for NATO.

Sorry mate, Putin isn't being reasonable. He violated the terms of the deal Russia signed with Ukraine.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Spare us the propaganda.
NATO is a defensive alliance whose members have an overwhelming offensive capability, now deployed right up to Russia's border.
"Defensive" is just a word. A rhetorical device, just as Putin saying that his current undertaking is a defensive effort to defend Russia's borders.
Ask Serbia or Libya how defensive NATO is. Or Iraq & Afghanistan.

Not propaganda. Who "started it" in Libya and Serbia?

You believe Putin is LEGITIMATELY concerned that NATO will invade Russia. is that what you're telling us?

NATO started it in Libya & Serbia. Neither invaded a NATO country.
"Legitimate" concern is not relevant. Capability is.
Do we presently consider Mexico a threat ? How about when the cartels take over ?

[old salt]

This is proving that Putin is not paranoid. He is rational to feel threatened by a NATO Ukraine on his border.

This is the part i don't get. Will you elaborate? Would a "NATO Ukraine" EVER think of actually invading Russia? Parts of Russia? You think that Ukraine "invading" Crimea to get it back is what makes Vlad feel threatened?

NATO is a defensive alliance. Have they EVER acted "offensively" or threatened such behavior??

..

Spare us the propaganda.

It's also propaganda that Putin (and American pundits) have "forgotten" that Russia exchanged Ukraine's nukes for security agreements, OS.

You want an independent Ukraine? Give them their nukes back. Fake problem solved....no need for NATO.

Sorry mate, Putin isn't being reasonable. He violated the terms of the deal Russia signed with Ukraine.

Ukraine held the nukes. The codes that made them operational remained in Moscow.
That weak excuse has lapsed. It was never a formal treaty. It wasn't a lasting obligation like NATO's Article 5.
It was to give Ukraine a grace period to develop the ability to defend themselves & to reach a modus vivendi with Russia.
They did neither, for decades. After the Russians rolled into Crimea unopposed & seized the Donbass with minimal resistance in 2014,
in 2017 the US/UK/Canada began arming & training them so they could do what they are doing today.
Until Zelenskyy came to power 2 years ago, they did not have a leader worthy of following, & his poll numbers were falling until Putin gave him a chance to be Churchill. They were as corrupt as Russia, & have yet to prove they are not still. The Ukrainians had a more than ample opportunity to develop the ability to deter & defend themselves against Russia. They were the best of the USSR. So spare me the Bucharest memo guilt trip.

[a fan]

Ukraine held the nukes. The codes that made them operational remained in Moscow.
That weak excuse has lapsed. It was never a formal treaty.

Neither is "keeping NATO away from Russia's borders"....get it?

What are you talking about.

Did Ukraine surrender the nukes, holding up their end of that agreement, or not? Yes. They did.

So what the F are you doing, trying to argue that Russia doesn't have to hold up to their end of that bargain?

[old salt]

Ukraine held the nukes. The codes that made them operational remained in Moscow.
That weak excuse has lapsed. It was never a formal treaty.

Neither is "keeping NATO away from Russia's borders"....get it?

What are you talking about.

Did Ukraine surrender the nukes, holding up their end of that agreement, or not? Yes. They did.

So what the F are you doing, trying to argue that Russia doesn't have to hold up to their end of that bargain?

I am arguing what is actually happening & what actually matters, not what you think should.

How do you expect US to force Russia to hold up their end ?
Are you advocating that we go to war with Russia to enforce the Budapest Memorandum ?

Putin & Russia don't think like us or play by our rules. You got that yet ?

...& obtw, it will be 3 years before the EU can stop buying Russian gas & oil, IF they start preparing now.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/23/politics ... index.html

[Brooklyn]

transgender women not allowed to leave Ukraine:



https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/ae8a3176 ... 9afa771a7b


https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... es-borders

https://www.bing.com/search?q=trans+wom ... 01&PC=EE04



It's every man for himself. Uh, for her ... or whatever.

[Kismet]

WSJ reporting that NATO believes up to 40,000 Russian troops killed, wounded, taken prisoner or missing in Ukraine.

That would be a STUNNING statistic if true - that''s like 35-40% of engaged forces in Ukraine.

Also reports of Russians giving up tanks and armor in return for $10,000 payments and being able to remain in country

Wild NYT story analyzing Rooskie military comms (they are using open public channels as their secure comms have been either jammed or don't work)

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/eur ... kariv.html

[Peter Brown]

transgender women not allowed to leave Ukraine:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... es-borders

https://www.bing.com/search?q=trans+wom ... 01&PC=EE04

It's every man for himself. Uh, for her ... or whatever.

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

[a fan]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?


Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

[Peter Brown]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

[DocBarrister]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

You do believe transgender folks are “decent” people and that there is nothing inherently indecent about being transgender, correct?

DocBarrister

[a fan]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

Oh....then vote Putin, Petey. He'll take care of those gay people you fear so very much.

You're all set.

[JoeMauer89]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

You do believe transgender folks are “decent” people and that there is nothing inherently indecent about being transgender, correct?

DocBarrister

Jesus you will bloviate on just about anything if it satisfies your insatiable desire to demonstrate what you deem to be other's "moral turpitude"

Joe

[Peter Brown]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

You do believe transgender folks are “decent” people and that there is nothing inherently indecent about being transgender, correct?

DocBarrister

Jesus you will bloviate on just about anything if it satisfies your insatiable desire to demonstrate what you deem to be other's "moral turpitude"

Joe

I don’t understand these guys’ need to try to lord it over others with supposed virtue. In no way am I anti-anyone; I truly doubt anyone on this board is, with the one exception being the left’s anti ‘black conservatives’ .

I just want girls to compete against girls. Is that really revolutionary these days, to defend girls?

[Peter Brown]

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Says the guy who won't shut up about the only trans athlete competing in the NCAA.

Can you make it five seconds without contradicting yourself?

Next up: Pete will tell us how stupid and immoral UFlorida grads are, having forgotten that he attended said University.

My ‘obsession’ is decency…whatever gets in the way, I’m against.

Oh....then vote Putin, Petey. He'll take care of those gay people you fear so very much.

You're all set.

We’ve gone from saying I’m anti-trans to anti-gay now? I can’t keep up with the number of prejudices you think I have…

Truly impressive collectivist thoughts you got going on.

[Brooklyn]

transgender women not allowed to leave Ukraine:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-deve ... es-borders

https://www.bing.com/search?q=trans+wom ... 01&PC=EE04

It's every man for himself. Uh, for her ... or whatever.

This is truly the most bizarre fascination by the left. Trans this trans that. Now we’re writing articles on the seven trans Ukrainians known to exist.

It’s just a bizarre fetish the left has. No words.

Your hero (heroine) Caitlyn Jenner is champion of trans rights and is Republican.

[a fan]

We’ve gone from saying I’m anti-trans to anti-gay now? I can’t keep up with the number of prejudices you think I have…

Truly impressive collectivist thoughts you got going on.

Nope...that's you, my man. Getting all upset by anyone who's different than you.

Remember your "the normals"? That's you, Petey. Oh, and Bandito. And Essex, of course. Your parents....must be SO proud of you.