media matters

[Typical Lax Dad]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

[Peter Brown]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg (127.11 KiB) Viewed 831 times

[a fan]

“Progressives have become intolerant of those who disagree with them or express other opinions, and taken on a kind of self-righteousness and censoriousness that the right long displayed and the left long abhorred”. NYT

It’s entertaining to see Fanlax progressives incapable of self reflection.

So you're upset the the left is behaving the way that you and the right behave, Pete? Only YOU are allowed to shut down others and cancel them.

I'm proud of you for at least figuring this out. Nice job.

[Typical Lax Dad]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg

She came in 8th.

[a fan]

Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.

Yes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?

The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?

You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.

Just a thought.

So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.

Yes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?

The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?

You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.

Just a thought.

So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.

That’s a good question.

[Peter Brown]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg

She came in 8th.

Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?

Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…

[tech37]

Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.

Yes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?

The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?

You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.
Perfection? Hardly. I learned long ago that "perfect is the enemy of good."

Just a thought.

So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Patient? That word choice just for me a fan?

I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.
How bout... the elusive winning meant everything for Lia?

[tech37]

I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.

“If you are assigned male at birth:

1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.

2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”

https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."

[a fan]

Patient? That word choice just for me a fan?

That's not what I was thinking of, believe it or not. I meant it sincerely, not as a good natured jab.

This group of Americans has been treated unfairly for a loooooong time. IMHO, it's unreasonable to expect to fix that issue, and stick the landing perfectly. One NCAA event is hardly equal to what this group has been through.

So when I said this is a learning opportunity----how many feminists do you suppose are REALLY torn on this issue. On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted.

How bout... the elusive winning meant everything for Lia?

Pretty obvious to me that that's not it. But you're welcome to your conclusions. Seems like asking her the question might get you a more interesting answer.

[Typical Lax Dad]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg

She came in 8th.

Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?

Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…

Obviously you weren’t an athlete. Take care Petey. Back to the corner for you along with a dunce cap. Say hi to my other friend. Buh bye.

[tech37]

Patient? That word choice just for me a fan?

That's not what I was thinking of, believe it or not. I meant it sincerely, not as a good natured jab.

This group of Americans has been treated unfairly for a loooooong time. IMHO, it's unreasonable to expect to fix that issue, and stick the landing perfectly. One NCAA event is hardly equal to what this group has been through.
As you said the other day, life is unfair. Gender Dysphoria/Trans is absolutely unfair but to try fixing that unfairness and in process create other unfairness in women's athletics, makes no sense. And it's not about one event, it's about precedent.

We'll probably need to agree to disagree.

So when I said this is a learning opportunity----how many feminists do you suppose are REALLY torn on this issue. On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted.

How bout... the elusive winning meant everything for Lia?

Pretty obvious to me that that's not it. But you're welcome to your conclusions. Seems like asking her the question might get you a more interesting answer.
Pretty obvious? How so?

Oh it may well be that simple. But you're right, if I could ask, Lia probably wouldn't admit it.

[cradleandshoot]

Finally, no one cares if anyone wants to live differently than how they’re born. No one.



How did the right becomes such whiners??

One athlete is "wrecking the dreams of not simply the 15 girls she beat, but the thousands of others watching all this thinking they shouldn’t even try."

Excuse there Skippy but people have the right to care when YOUR tax dollars are being used to pay for the surgery. If a dude wants to cut off his tallywhacker and have a vagina inserted in its place and pay for the estrogen therapy and pay for it all herself... Knock yourself out. Don't sit here and tell me paying for it is my responsibility. Your a rich old white liberal guy, why dont you break out your effing checkbook and underwrite all these expensive procedures your god damn self. I don't know what is wrong with you but you have rapidly turned into an industrial strength weed.

[SCLaxAttack]

I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.

“If you are assigned male at birth:

1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.

2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”

https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."

Tech, to quote afan in the post right after this response "On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted."

I was just providing you with the NCAA's ruling as to who can compete, and when. Lia followed the rules just as a tennis player named Renee Richards did way back in the 70s. Or maybe it was the 80s. We shouldn't blame her, or penalize her, for winning. Hopefully as more scientific studies are conducted rules will be adjusted if necessary so that the playing field can be adjusted in a more perfect manner.

As others have said here in one way or other I can't imagine the psychological hardship transgendered people go through their entire lives, and I certainly can't imagine someone deciding to take hormones and have surgeries just so they can compete in sports (or anything else). I was an average college lacrosse player but would have been fantastic with a stick with no pocket - even if I had to wear a skirt. No way would I have taken testosterone blockers or had surgeries just to compete on a higher level women's team.

[tech37]

I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.

“If you are assigned male at birth:

1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.

2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”

https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa

Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance Advantage

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/

"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."

Tech, to quote afan in the post right after this response "On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted."

I was just providing you with the NCAA's ruling as to who can compete, and when. Lia followed the rules just as a tennis player named Renee Richards did way back in the 70s. Or maybe it was the 80s. We shouldn't blame her, or penalize her, for winning. Hopefully as more scientific studies are conducted rules will be adjusted if necessary so that the playing field can be adjusted in a more perfect manner.
Yep, and I was just providing a paper I came by that is relevant to the NCAA ruling. I apologize the link doesn't work. Paper can be found on NIH National Library of Medicine page.

As others have said here in one way or other I can't imagine the psychological hardship transgendered people go through their entire lives, and I certainly can't imagine someone deciding to take hormones and have surgeries just so they can compete in sports (or anything else). I was an average college lacrosse player but would have been fantastic with a stick with no pocket - even if I had to wear a skirt. No way would I have taken testosterone blockers or had surgeries just to compete on a higher level women's team.
Whoa, I think you misunderstood. This is the question a fan asked: "why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports." I certainly never meant to suggest she went through the transition in order to compete against women. The decision to compete must have been secondary, made after what I'm sure was a traumatic initial decision to transition in the first place. I hope that clarifies.

[a fan]

Oh it may well be that simple. But you're right, if I could ask, Lia probably wouldn't admit it.[/color][/b]

You know too many Ivy League athletes who care ONLY about W's and L's, to the exclusion of all else? I don't. There's a reason these kids choose these schools. Can't imagine Lia is an exception to that idea, from all I've read......

[runrussellrun]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg

She came in 8th.

Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?

Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…

Obviously you weren’t an athlete. Take care Petey. Back to the corner for you along with a dunce cap. Say hi to my other friend. Buh bye.

Which "friend" would that be? Your "friend" that "raped" women in college.....boyz being boyz. THAT friend ?

yup.....you admit to having friendships with these types of people. speaks volumes.

[runrussellrun]

My swim buddy sent me this:

https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/

His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.

...and we hope that she will get bumped for the US olympic team, in favor of penisless "progress", we guess.

cry us a river when that opportunity is taken away from your "buddy" and his family

[MDlaxfan76]

Am I canceling you? do you have a platform?

Schrier certainly has a huge platform.

so, do evangelical preachers...huge platforms.

It seems that your issue, most of the hard right's issue, is that they get called out for their lack of rigorous scientific methodology...on topic after topic they take the "contrary" angry expression instead of a more thoughtful, nuanced and yes, empathetic perspective...for drill.

Is this actually a lack of understanding of science and scientific methodology?
In some cases, sure...but what bothers me far more is those who really should know better, who probably do know better, yet prefer to use their talents, their brains, to sell snake oil or partisan ideology for fame and fortune and power.

I have the exact same critique when I see overwrought ideological positions on the left. I just see a heck of a lot of it these days from the right, especially the hard, populist right.

Why do you automatically create the divide...Schrier bad (opportunist, non-science), Trans documentary good (caring, backed by real science). There is most likely much that can be learned from both. I simply suggested you check out what she has to say and you then did what you do.

sorry tech...Schrier claims she's being "canceled"...which is total baloney.

Sure, something can be learned.

But she's indeed an opportunistic ideologue.
And I reject that approach to issues, doesn't matter whether left or right.

did you watch the documentary? Reaction?

[MDlaxfan76]

Am I canceling you? do you have a platform?

Schrier certainly has a huge platform.

so, do evangelical preachers...huge platforms.

It seems that your issue, most of the hard right's issue, is that they get called out for their lack of rigorous scientific methodology...on topic after topic they take the "contrary" angry expression instead of a more thoughtful, nuanced and yes, empathetic perspective...for drill.

Is this actually a lack of understanding of science and scientific methodology?
In some cases, sure...but what bothers me far more is those who really should know better, who probably do know better, yet prefer to use their talents, their brains, to sell snake oil or partisan ideology for fame and fortune and power.

I have the exact same critique when I see overwrought ideological positions on the left. I just see a heck of a lot of it these days from the right, especially the hard, populist right.

This is a culture war for sure. A lot of it lies in the leftist leanings of unionized teachers seeing themselves as heroes, rescuing these poor kids from their confusion. Stop and ask yourself this though: When they run into anyone they see as possibly gender confused, why is it always a default away from the sex at the child's birth?

And where do you get that assumption?
Do you think that's the experience of most kids who are expressing gender "confusion"? Most of the adults in their lives say they should choose a different gender? Do most of their teachers suggest that? Most of their peers? Really? they say they feel supported in whatever choice they make?