My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
media matters
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Re: media matters
“I wish you would!”
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Re: media matters
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
Re: media matters
Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:49 am “Progressives have become intolerant of those who disagree with them or express other opinions, and taken on a kind of self-righteousness and censoriousness that the right long displayed and the left long abhorred”. NYT
It’s entertaining to see Fanlax progressives incapable of self reflection.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
I'm proud of you for at least figuring this out. Nice job.
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Re: media matters
She came in 8th.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:27 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpeg
“I wish you would!”
Re: media matters
Yes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:02 am Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.
The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?
You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.
Just a thought.
So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.
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Re: media matters
That’s a good question.a fan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:47 pmYes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:02 am Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.
The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?
You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.
Just a thought.
So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.
“I wish you would!”
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Re: media matters
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:34 pmShe came in 8th.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:27 pm92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpegTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?
Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…
Re: media matters
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:47 pmYes.....as Pete just pointed out....this gaslighting, ridicule and cancelling was the domain of the American right. So it's a bit-----rich----to hear complaints from them when the tables are turned. Do I need to point out that the right ridicule(d) the lgbtq community? Or that they canceled them out of employment? Or gaslighted them into thinking that they were insane for being gay?tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:02 am Believe me I'm just as frustrated with people like yourself who can't/won't accept that so many in the country disagree (with you) on any number of matters, only to be gaslighted, ridiculed, and yes, canceled, even though the concerns are valid. If you haven't noticed, our country is very F'd up.
The right didn't exactly get America perfect when they were in charge. Why in heaven's name would you expect the left to get everything perfect now that they finally have a small say in how some (some) things happen culturally?
You're expecting perfection, Tech. Maybe realize that that's just not possible, and they're gonna miss the mark on the inevitable march to the American center.
Perfection? Hardly. I learned long ago that "perfect is the enemy of good."
Just a thought.
So in our current example? The NCAA isn't done with this issue, and are still figuring it out. Be patient, is my advice. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Patient? That word choice just for me a fan?
I still haven't heard from the swimmer as to why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports. Because women do indeed participate in NCAA mens sports.....there have been women football players. So...what did she get from competing against women that she didn't get against men? Seems like a reasonable question.
How bout... the elusive winning meant everything for Lia?
Re: media matters
Transgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance AdvantageSCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:10 pm
I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.
“If you are assigned male at birth:
1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.
2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”
https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/
"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."
Last edited by tech37 on Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: media matters
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
This group of Americans has been treated unfairly for a loooooong time. IMHO, it's unreasonable to expect to fix that issue, and stick the landing perfectly. One NCAA event is hardly equal to what this group has been through.
So when I said this is a learning opportunity----how many feminists do you suppose are REALLY torn on this issue. On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted.
Pretty obvious to me that that's not it. But you're welcome to your conclusions. Seems like asking her the question might get you a more interesting answer.
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Re: media matters
Obviously you weren’t an athlete. Take care Petey. Back to the corner for you along with a dunce cap. Say hi to my other friend. Buh bye.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:13 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:34 pmShe came in 8th.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:27 pm92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpegTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?
Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…
Last edited by Typical Lax Dad on Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“I wish you would!”
Re: media matters
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:21 pmThat's not what I was thinking of, believe it or not. I meant it sincerely, not as a good natured jab.
This group of Americans has been treated unfairly for a loooooong time. IMHO, it's unreasonable to expect to fix that issue, and stick the landing perfectly. One NCAA event is hardly equal to what this group has been through.
As you said the other day, life is unfair. Gender Dysphoria/Trans is absolutely unfair but to try fixing that unfairness and in process create other unfairness in women's athletics, makes no sense. And it's not about one event, it's about precedent.
We'll probably need to agree to disagree.
So when I said this is a learning opportunity----how many feminists do you suppose are REALLY torn on this issue. On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted.
Pretty obvious to me that that's not it. But you're welcome to your conclusions. Seems like asking her the question might get you a more interesting answer.
Pretty obvious? How so?
Oh it may well be that simple. But you're right, if I could ask, Lia probably wouldn't admit it.
- cradleandshoot
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Re: media matters
Excuse there Skippy but people have the right to care when YOUR tax dollars are being used to pay for the surgery. If a dude wants to cut off his tallywhacker and have a vagina inserted in its place and pay for the estrogen therapy and pay for it all herself... Knock yourself out. Don't sit here and tell me paying for it is my responsibility. Your a rich old white liberal guy, why dont you break out your effing checkbook and underwrite all these expensive procedures your god damn self. I don't know what is wrong with you but you have rapidly turned into an industrial strength weed.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:32 am Finally, no one cares if anyone wants to live differently than how they’re born. No one.
How did the right becomes such whiners??
One athlete is "wrecking the dreams of not simply the 15 girls she beat, but the thousands of others watching all this thinking they shouldn’t even try."
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
Bob Ross:
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Re: media matters
Tech, to quote afan in the post right after this response "On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted."tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:07 pmTransgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance AdvantageSCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:10 pm
I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.
“If you are assigned male at birth:
1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.
2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”
https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/
"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."
I was just providing you with the NCAA's ruling as to who can compete, and when. Lia followed the rules just as a tennis player named Renee Richards did way back in the 70s. Or maybe it was the 80s. We shouldn't blame her, or penalize her, for winning. Hopefully as more scientific studies are conducted rules will be adjusted if necessary so that the playing field can be adjusted in a more perfect manner.
As others have said here in one way or other I can't imagine the psychological hardship transgendered people go through their entire lives, and I certainly can't imagine someone deciding to take hormones and have surgeries just so they can compete in sports (or anything else). I was an average college lacrosse player but would have been fantastic with a stick with no pocket - even if I had to wear a skirt. No way would I have taken testosterone blockers or had surgeries just to compete on a higher level women's team.
Re: media matters
SCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:37 pmTech, to quote afan in the post right after this response "On the one hand, the desire to protect the rights of transAmericans....on the other, to protect the rights of women. In this arena, the two appear (appear) to clash. How do you reconciles these complicated views? It a hecukva exercise in humanism, if you ask me. I not at all sure there are right answers to be had, which is why a bit of patience and thought is warranted."tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:07 pmTransgender Women in the Female Category of Sport: Perspectives on Testosterone Suppression and Performance AdvantageSCLaxAttack wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:10 pm
I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.
“If you are assigned male at birth:
1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.
2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”
https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289906/
"Longitudinal studies examining the effects of testosterone suppression on muscle mass and strength in transgender women consistently show very modest changes, where the loss of lean body mass, muscle area and strength typically amounts to approximately 5% after 12 months of treatment. Thus, the muscular advantage enjoyed by transgender women is only minimally reduced when testosterone is suppressed. Sports organizations should consider this evidence when reassessing current policies regarding participation of transgender women in the female category of sport."
I was just providing you with the NCAA's ruling as to who can compete, and when. Lia followed the rules just as a tennis player named Renee Richards did way back in the 70s. Or maybe it was the 80s. We shouldn't blame her, or penalize her, for winning. Hopefully as more scientific studies are conducted rules will be adjusted if necessary so that the playing field can be adjusted in a more perfect manner.
Yep, and I was just providing a paper I came by that is relevant to the NCAA ruling. I apologize the link doesn't work. Paper can be found on NIH National Library of Medicine page.
As others have said here in one way or other I can't imagine the psychological hardship transgendered people go through their entire lives, and I certainly can't imagine someone deciding to take hormones and have surgeries just so they can compete in sports (or anything else). I was an average college lacrosse player but would have been fantastic with a stick with no pocket - even if I had to wear a skirt. No way would I have taken testosterone blockers or had surgeries just to compete on a higher level women's team.
Whoa, I think you misunderstood. This is the question a fan asked: "why she could ONLY compete against women to get what she's looking for from sports." I certainly never meant to suggest she went through the transition in order to compete against women. The decision to compete must have been secondary, made after what I'm sure was a traumatic initial decision to transition in the first place. I hope that clarifies.
Re: media matters
You know too many Ivy League athletes who care ONLY about W's and L's, to the exclusion of all else? I don't. There's a reason these kids choose these schools. Can't imagine Lia is an exception to that idea, from all I've read......
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Re: media matters
Which "friend" would that be? Your "friend" that "raped" women in college.....boyz being boyz. THAT friend ?Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:25 pmObviously you weren’t an athlete. Take care Petey. Back to the corner for you along with a dunce cap. Say hi to my other friend. Buh bye.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 1:13 pmTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:34 pmShe came in 8th.Peter Brown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 12:27 pm92CD2C7D-15FC-4492-B818-70C893962C91.jpegTypical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
Hmmmmm. Do we applaud purposeful tanking now?
Thomas, who set a program record with her victory in 500 free on Thursday, finished dead last in the 100 with a time of 48.18, despite entering the finals with the fourth-fastest time…
yup.....you admit to having friendships with these types of people. speaks volumes.
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
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Re: media matters
...and we hope that she will get bumped for the US olympic team, in favor of penisless "progress", we guess.Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 11:17 am My swim buddy sent me this:
https://newswwc.com/sports/poker-news/t ... final/amp/
His note was this is more in line with what he expected. Daughter has been swimming since she was 6 months. He’s grooming her to be an Olympic caliber athlete if it works out. Her club has produced Olympians.
cry us a river when that opportunity is taken away from your "buddy" and his family
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
- MDlaxfan76
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Re: media matters
sorry tech...Schrier claims she's being "canceled"...which is total baloney.tech37 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:26 amWhy do you automatically create the divide...Schrier bad (opportunist, non-science), Trans documentary good (caring, backed by real science). There is most likely much that can be learned from both. I simply suggested you check out what she has to say and you then did what you do.MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:09 am Am I canceling you? do you have a platform?
Schrier certainly has a huge platform.
so, do evangelical preachers...huge platforms.
It seems that your issue, most of the hard right's issue, is that they get called out for their lack of rigorous scientific methodology...on topic after topic they take the "contrary" angry expression instead of a more thoughtful, nuanced and yes, empathetic perspective...for drill.
Is this actually a lack of understanding of science and scientific methodology?
In some cases, sure...but what bothers me far more is those who really should know better, who probably do know better, yet prefer to use their talents, their brains, to sell snake oil or partisan ideology for fame and fortune and power.
I have the exact same critique when I see overwrought ideological positions on the left. I just see a heck of a lot of it these days from the right, especially the hard, populist right.
Sure, something can be learned.
But she's indeed an opportunistic ideologue.
And I reject that approach to issues, doesn't matter whether left or right.
did you watch the documentary? Reaction?
- MDlaxfan76
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Re: media matters
And where do you get that assumption?get it to x wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:26 amThis is a culture war for sure. A lot of it lies in the leftist leanings of unionized teachers seeing themselves as heroes, rescuing these poor kids from their confusion. Stop and ask yourself this though: When they run into anyone they see as possibly gender confused, why is it always a default away from the sex at the child's birth?MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 20, 2022 10:09 am Am I canceling you? do you have a platform?
Schrier certainly has a huge platform.
so, do evangelical preachers...huge platforms.
It seems that your issue, most of the hard right's issue, is that they get called out for their lack of rigorous scientific methodology...on topic after topic they take the "contrary" angry expression instead of a more thoughtful, nuanced and yes, empathetic perspective...for drill.
Is this actually a lack of understanding of science and scientific methodology?
In some cases, sure...but what bothers me far more is those who really should know better, who probably do know better, yet prefer to use their talents, their brains, to sell snake oil or partisan ideology for fame and fortune and power.
I have the exact same critique when I see overwrought ideological positions on the left. I just see a heck of a lot of it these days from the right, especially the hard, populist right.
Do you think that's the experience of most kids who are expressing gender "confusion"? Most of the adults in their lives say they should choose a different gender? Do most of their teachers suggest that? Most of their peers? Really? they say they feel supported in whatever choice they make?