media matters

[Typical Lax Dad]

The NCAA has been analyzing these things for decades and putting in policies for trans athletes over the years to keep a level playing field. If something needs attention, or people are cheating, or people have an unnatural advantage, it gets addressed.

Mr. Black and White has no idea what these policies are of course, or that they're constantly being revised. This issue has just been firehosed into his eyeholes from various propaganda outlets to make him angry and divisive.

“Black and white” is winning or losing the meet. Lia ‘won’. The second place female finisher did not. The fourth place finisher didn’t medal. An alternate didn’t get to race in the final because of Lia.

Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of?

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

You seem to think there’s a functioning body of officials handling this, I’d love to know more.

Just wondering…what sports did you play at a competitive level? Your kids compete at a competitive level?

Did you have answers to my questions?

“Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of? “

No

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

No sure about ‘addressed’…I didn’t bring it up. As for the other part, I don’t believe any results will be overturned.

Can you answer my questions? I was just curious.

[Peter Brown]

The NCAA has been analyzing these things for decades and putting in policies for trans athletes over the years to keep a level playing field. If something needs attention, or people are cheating, or people have an unnatural advantage, it gets addressed.

Mr. Black and White has no idea what these policies are of course, or that they're constantly being revised. This issue has just been firehosed into his eyeholes from various propaganda outlets to make him angry and divisive.

“Black and white” is winning or losing the meet. Lia ‘won’. The second place female finisher did not. The fourth place finisher didn’t medal. An alternate didn’t get to race in the final because of Lia.

Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of?

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

You seem to think there’s a functioning body of officials handling this, I’d love to know more.

Just wondering…what sports did you play at a competitive level? Your kids compete at a competitive level?

Did you have answers to my questions?

“Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of? “

No

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

No sure about ‘addressed’…I didn’t bring it up. As for the other part, I don’t believe any results will be overturned.

Can you answer my questions? I was just curious.

I don’t answer personal questions on the Internet.

But here are some personal observations, not to be confused specifically for me or anyone in particular:

As a general rule, people attracted to sports websites in all likelihood have played sports.

Those that feel a need to detail their exploits are often the least accomplished.

Those that don’t discuss their past are often the most.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The NCAA has been analyzing these things for decades and putting in policies for trans athletes over the years to keep a level playing field. If something needs attention, or people are cheating, or people have an unnatural advantage, it gets addressed.

Mr. Black and White has no idea what these policies are of course, or that they're constantly being revised. This issue has just been firehosed into his eyeholes from various propaganda outlets to make him angry and divisive.

“Black and white” is winning or losing the meet. Lia ‘won’. The second place female finisher did not. The fourth place finisher didn’t medal. An alternate didn’t get to race in the final because of Lia.

Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of?

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

You seem to think there’s a functioning body of officials handling this, I’d love to know more.

Just wondering…what sports did you play at a competitive level? Your kids compete at a competitive level?

Did you have answers to my questions?

“Is there a gray zone medal ceremony I’m unaware of? “

No

What’s being ‘addressed’, as you say? Are the results going to be overturned?

No sure about ‘addressed’…I didn’t bring it up. As for the other part, I don’t believe any results will be overturned.

Can you answer my questions? I was just curious.

I don’t answer personal questions on the Internet.

But here are some personal observations, not to be confused specifically for me or anyone in particular:

As a general rule, people attracted to sports websites in all likelihood have played sports.

Those that feel a need to detail their exploits are often the least accomplished.

Those that don’t discuss their past are often the most.

OK. I believe we have been down this road before, now that I read your answer. All the best and have a great weekend.

[a fan]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

My guess is the girl that came in 2nd understands the circumstances and feels good about her time. It is complicated.

[tech37]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

[a fan]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

I recall beating a team 80-2 in pee wee basketball. My buddy and I talk about how the team we beat showed more competitive spirit than we did. We didn’t know any better at the time.

[get it to x]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Athletics first and foremost should be about fairness. Would the NCAA tolerate a female swimmer who tested positive for testosterone? Identity and Gender are two different things, no matter how hard we might want it to be otherwise.

[Peter Brown]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Athletics first and foremost should be about fairness. Would the NCAA tolerate a female swimmer who tested positive for testosterone? Identity and Gender are two different things, no matter how hard we might want it to be otherwise.

Indeed.

For some odd reason, the notion of *fairness* escapes my friends on the left here at Fanlax when it comes to this issue. Why is that?

Instead, we hear about ‘teachable moments’, and ‘it’s complicated’, and ‘you can’t beat them anyway, so suck it up and lose’.

The teachable moment is right here at Fanlax. Instead of bending the knee to the mob of the left, what folks ought to do is admit how patently absurd it is to allow males to compete against females in ladies sports. Is that really difficult to simply admit? No one is ‘sticking it’ to anyone else; instead, you’d be defending the essential fairness of sport, especially for young girls.

I’m betting that all the Democrats here who applaud Lia, spit on Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens for steroids. Why don’t they see the inconsistency?

[tech37]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Not that it matters, but I'm sure many of my fellow Americans agree with my view too. For me it's certainly not anti-trans but is simply about fairness. Sorry to disappoint you, but for me this is an easy call. That rarely happens.

[Typical Lax Dad]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Not that it matters, but I'm sure many of my fellow Americans agree with my view too. For me it's certainly not anti-trans but is simply about fairness. Sorry to disappoint you but for me, this is an easy call. That rarely happens.

I believe it’s complicated by the fact that the swimmer swam competitively as a male. Had the swimmer not been very good, it would be less of an issue.

[Peter Brown]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Not that it matters, but I'm sure many of my fellow Americans agree with my view too. For me it's certainly not anti-trans but is simply about fairness. Sorry to disappoint you but for me, this is an easy call. That rarely happens.

I believe it’s complicated by the fact that the swimmer swam competitively as a male. Had the swimmer not been very good, it would be less of an issue.

Absolutely irrelevant. Whether a guy swam, was competitive, was good or bad, these are not relevant to whether we allow men to compete against women in female categories.

Race car driving? No problemo. Billiards? Same.

Swimming, soccer, football, track and field, tennis, golf, weightlifting, skiing, basketball, lacrosse…sorry. There’s a clear natural advantage for men. And if you allow this to continue, girls will simply stop competing. I assume no one wants that?

[SCLaxAttack]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

So no teachable moment? College Sports is 100% about w's and l's, with no other value added?

Since I'm not talking to a troll like Pete....I'll grant you that this is complicated, to say the least.

Pete doesn't care about fair. He cares about sticking it to people who aren't just like him.

Teachable moment? IMO, the moment shouldn't even exist. Not complicated at all.

Have a good friend who's son is now a third daughter. Trans is complicated, agreed. But trans and sports isn't or shouldn't be.

What I mean by "complicated", is that it would seem the NCAA and many of your fellow Americans disagree with your view.

And I'm sorry you don't see the teaching moment(s).

For example, did you ever have to prepare all year to play an opponent that you know you can't beat, no matter how hard you work? Probably, right? Did you give up, stop working hard, or not play the game?

There's about a million lessons here, and in all directions.....Imho. This isn't pro sports. The athletics are supposed to be a part of your education.

Athletics first and foremost should be about fairness. Would the NCAA tolerate a female swimmer who tested positive for testosterone? Identity and Gender are two different things, no matter how hard we might want it to be otherwise.

I didn’t know this until I investigated it. The answer to your question is yes, a female swimmer who tests positive for testosterone can compete against women. Interestingly, a trans woman’s testosterone level needs to be below the testosterone level of the average cisgendered woman.

“If you are assigned male at birth:

1. You may compete on the men’s team, even if you begin testosterone suppression or estrogen therapy.

2. You may only compete as female after undergoing at least one year of documented hormone (testosterone) suppressants to prove that your testosterone levels are at or below an average female level . You may NOT compete as female without undergoing at least one year of this testosterone suppression therapy. This testosterone suppression eliminates testosterone-based advantages a trans woman might have over a cisgender woman — as her testosterone levels should be the same or lower than an average cisgender woman.”

https://pinkmantaray.com/ncaa

[a fan]

Athletics first and foremost should be about fairness

Demonstrably untrue.

You've never seen a HS basketball team with a bunch of five foot nothing players face a team with every player over 6 foot tall, and a 7 footer?

Does the sport do anything to level that field? F no. Shut up and play.

Yet wrestling sees that sort of physical disparity as inherently unfair, and assigns weight classes.

You ever see a rich HS team with a million dollar weight room and college-level playing field with multiple full time coaches play kids with hand me down uniforms and no locker room? Is that fair? I think it's 1000% unfair, and an affront to sports. Yet here we are. Life's unfair sometimes.

Or how about Private Schools that can recruit kids from anywhere in the country that play against public schools who are limited by the kids from one zip code? How the heck is that fair? It's not, obviously.


FTR, never said I agree or disagree with the NCAA's stand on this matter. All I said was "it's complicated".

[a fan]

Not that it matters, but I'm sure many of my fellow Americans agree with my view too. For me it's certainly not anti-trans but is simply about fairness.

Yes, for you it's about fairness. And I respect that. And of course, many people share your view.

Sorry to disappoint you, but for me this is an easy call. That rarely happens.

I'm not disappointed, it's an entirely reasonable view, Tech.


For my daughter, I'm hoping she plays one team sport. For me, the whole thing is about doing your best, and enjoying the metaphorical locker room with your teammates. I hope she chooses to play.

I couldn't care less if she wins or loses a single game.

[lagerhead]

Not that it matters, but I'm sure many of my fellow Americans agree with my view too. For me it's certainly not anti-trans but is simply about fairness.

Yes, for you it's about fairness. And I respect that. And of course, many people share your view.

Sorry to disappoint you, but for me this is an easy call. That rarely happens.

I'm not disappointed, it's an entirely reasonable view, Tech.


For my daughter, I'm hoping she plays one team sport. For me, the whole thing is about doing your best, and enjoying the metaphorical locker room with your teammates. I hope she chooses to play.

I couldn't care less if she wins or loses a single game.

The individual aspect of this sport makes it complicated, it’s one on one, individual results matter.

[MDlaxfan76]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

Same as the one whose daughter was beaten by a woman who is taller, stronger, faster due to genetic advantages.

It's not "fair".

[tech37]

It does make you wonder how these people would feel if it was their daughter who came in second due to evolution and the physiologic advantage the first place winner had due to being born male.

Same as the one whose daughter was beaten by a woman who is taller, stronger, faster due to genetic advantages.

It's not "fair".

Sure MDlax, whatever you say

[get it to x]

Athletics first and foremost should be about fairness

Demonstrably untrue.

You've never seen a HS basketball team with a bunch of five foot nothing players face a team with every player over 6 foot tall, and a 7 footer?

Does the sport do anything to level that field? F no. Shut up and play.

Yet wrestling sees that sort of physical disparity as inherently unfair, and assigns weight classes.

You ever see a rich HS team with a million dollar weight room and college-level playing field with multiple full time coaches play kids with hand me down uniforms and no locker room? Is that fair? I think it's 1000% unfair, and an affront to sports. Yet here we are. Life's unfair sometimes.

Or how about Private Schools that can recruit kids from anywhere in the country that play against public schools who are limited by the kids from one zip code? How the heck is that fair? It's not, obviously.


FTR, never said I agree or disagree with the NCAA's stand on this matter. All I said was "it's complicated".

You are equating life with athletic competition. They aren't the same. Life isn't fair, which is why athletics should be. And it seems in this case, to make it fair for this one swimmer, you had to make it unfair for so many other competitors and their families.