All Things Russia & Ukraine

[seacoaster]

School's out and somebody's mom and dad aren't home.

[Farfromgeneva]

The ruble has lost 90% of its value to the dollar since the conflict began.

We're paying more for gasoline.
If the dollar had had the same plunge that the ruble has had, we'd be paying $30-50 a gallon for gas right now.

But world markets see the US economy as very, very strong.
Russia very, very weak.

But our trolls on here think we should give up and let Putin have Russia under his thumb, commit whatever atrocities he wishes as a Stalin wannabe.

After all "white Christian values"...

Not certain who you’re referring to but it’s not me. I actually think the one way to get rid of Putin is to bog him down in Ukraine. My read is these Ukrainians just might beat the Russians.

I was off when I thought we should immediately go for a cease fire. Mea culpa. I thought the Ukrainians needed time to regroup. Like many, the Ukrainians have surprised me. I’d get them all the SAM’s, Javelins, UCAV’s, and basic equipment I could. Discreetly. I’d also quietly pay some Tatars to go mess up the Russian equipment in Crimea.

This could be the end of Putin if the West does their side effectively. Just don’t give Putin an excuse to launch the nukes.

Sigh.

“The end of Putin” is the best reason he would possibly have to launch nukes.

Things tend to be dynamic in situations like an autocratic leader being deposed by his military. Someone on his staff just might fire a bullet in his head. You never know.

Also….One thing I have generally relied on for years is, our military likely has a bette relationship with their military than what you’re giving anyone credit for. And launching nukes isn’t as easy as flipping a switch. Multiple layers of protocol.

Split personalities talking to one another...don't get confused...

There’s something very fake about at least one.

Then it is also true that EVERYTHING is fake when it comes to the opinions of the FLP members of this forum. I do know that back in the day, when Bill and Hillary were sucking up to the trumpster and happily accepting his money even the trump was a loyal, faithful democrat. You all can decide what is real, and what is an illusion. Is trump the lifelong democrat he always was or the republican he claims to be??? Since the debate has switched to what is fake??

Think in terms of spectrum rather than binary and apply context.

[cradleandshoot]

The ruble has lost 90% of its value to the dollar since the conflict began.

We're paying more for gasoline.
If the dollar had had the same plunge that the ruble has had, we'd be paying $30-50 a gallon for gas right now.

But world markets see the US economy as very, very strong.
Russia very, very weak.

But our trolls on here think we should give up and let Putin have Russia under his thumb, commit whatever atrocities he wishes as a Stalin wannabe.

After all "white Christian values"...

Not certain who you’re referring to but it’s not me. I actually think the one way to get rid of Putin is to bog him down in Ukraine. My read is these Ukrainians just might beat the Russians.

I was off when I thought we should immediately go for a cease fire. Mea culpa. I thought the Ukrainians needed time to regroup. Like many, the Ukrainians have surprised me. I’d get them all the SAM’s, Javelins, UCAV’s, and basic equipment I could. Discreetly. I’d also quietly pay some Tatars to go mess up the Russian equipment in Crimea.

This could be the end of Putin if the West does their side effectively. Just don’t give Putin an excuse to launch the nukes.

Sigh.

“The end of Putin” is the best reason he would possibly have to launch nukes.

Things tend to be dynamic in situations like an autocratic leader being deposed by his military. Someone on his staff just might fire a bullet in his head. You never know.

Also….One thing I have generally relied on for years is, our military likely has a bette relationship with their military than what you’re giving anyone credit for. And launching nukes isn’t as easy as flipping a switch. Multiple layers of protocol.

Split personalities talking to one another...don't get confused...

There’s something very fake about at least one.

Then it is also true that EVERYTHING is fake when it comes to the opinions of the FLP members of this forum. I do know that back in the day, when Bill and Hillary were sucking up to the trumpster and happily accepting his money even the trump was a loyal, faithful democrat. You all can decide what is real, and what is an illusion. Is trump the lifelong democrat he always was or the republican he claims to be??? Since the debate has switched to what is fake??

Think in terms of spectrum rather than binary and apply context.

Speak to me in English. You and I have one thing in common... we were both raised poor white trash in upstate NY. I know you learned a very fancy vocabulary while in college. I know what you are saying, translate it to language the average Joe understands without pulling out the decoder ring.

[youthathletics]

If everything matters, nothing is important.

[MDlaxfan76]

As the wave of propaganda to transfer Poland's Migs continues to build, some valid questions need to be answered --

-- how many Ukrainian Mig 29's & SU-27's remain ?
-- how many have been destroyed ? In the air ? On the ground ?
-- how many Mig experienced pilots remain ?
-- are there bases where they won't be sitting ducks to cruise misslie's or air strikes ?
-- does Ukraine have the mechs, spare parts & weapons to effectively employ them ?

Has anyone seen reporting which answers any of these questions ? I saw one photo of 2 Migs damaged on the ground & 1 SU-27 diverting to Romania.

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/03/log ... hter-swap/

"wave of propaganda"??? propaganda?

Clearly they are negotiating to get this done. But of course the Poles are anxious as all get out about being ill equipped for retaliation from Russia. Yes, gotta make sure they are fully reassured on that...should be doable.

Move some of our air capabilities to bases there, train the Poles for better aircraft as eventual replacements and do a lend-lease to get it done.

Yes propaganda. Ukrainian's on tv & US politicians pandering to their Ukrainian diaspora are dominating the debate on this issue.
Serious questions by former military "experts" are downplayed or ignored, as are the reservations of other NATO govts.
Blinken's blackmailing our NATO allies on tv before a consensus for such an escalation is achieved.
Weasel words won't alter the fact that this IS an escalation & much more provocative than the "defensive" aid provided to date.
It's Poland's unilateral decision but if it prompts an intercept or counterattack on or over Poland, it's NATO article 5 time.
Is it worth that risk ? Will it affect the final outcome ? Is it a game changer or a feel good video clip ?
Quietly rolling in mobile Soviet export S-300 SAMs from former Warsaw Pact NATO members seems safer & more effective.

It's a Risk v Reward decision. You addressed neither & ignored my ?'s.

Risk -- how will Russia react? Will they escalate against NATO ?
Do we have adequate forces in place (yet) to deter or effectively defend a conventional escalation ?

Reward -- I repeat my ???'s about Ukraine's ability to operate more jets & their survivability ?
Can we expect more than one mission/plane, or even get them into Ukraine & airborne on missions ?

There has been no analytical public debate on Risk v Reward.
It's been all emotion, rah rah, simplistic & best case wishful thinking.
It would be great if it works or another debacle if it does not.

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/20 ... r-ukraine/

White House, DoD lower expectations of Polish warplanes for Ukraine
Mar 7, 06:00 PM

WASHINGTON ― The White House and Pentagon on Monday downplayed the likelihood of a three-way deal for Poland to give MiG-29 aircraft to Ukraine and for the U.S. to backfill the Polish fleet with American F-16 fighters.

The cautious remarks from U.S. officials on Monday, with signals from Warsaw there would be no deal, are a blow to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenksky, who pleaded with U.S. lawmakers in a Zoom call Saturday for more military planes and support as his country fights a Russian invasion.

White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters Monday the administration is not opposing such a deal, but said there are significant logistical challenges.
“It is not as easy as just moving planes around,” Psaki said.

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby sought to temper expectations as well, telling reporters “we’re very early on in a discussion here about what the possibility could” and it’s “not a done deal at this point.” It’s unclear how many U.S. aircraft would be involved or how they would be transported, he said.
“It’s just a discussion about the possibility of should there be a nation that would want to give aircraft and would ask for a backfill from the United States,” Kirby said in describing the talks. “Should that happen, what would that look like, how would we do that? We don’t have all the answers right now.”

On Saturday, the Polish government labeled claims it had or will provide its MiGs to Ukraine as “fake news.” A Polish Armed Forces General Command tweet replied to one claim, saying, “All the Polish Air Force #MiG29 aircraft remain at their home bases.”
The chancellery of the Polish prime minister said in a tweet: “Poland won’t send its fighter jets to #Ukraine as well as allow [it] to use its airports. We significantly help in many other areas.”

No, EU countries aren’t sending fighter jets to Ukraine
"NATO is not to be part of the conflict,” Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said Tuesday.

Earlier in the day, Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the U.S. would give “the green light” to NATO countries if they choose to provide fighter jets to Ukraine. He noted talks with Poland were underway.

Multiple U.S. lawmakers have pressed the administration to facilitate the aircraft deal, with Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Robert Menendez, D-N.J., saying he would “support efforts in the Senate to implement measures to compensate our allies that provide their aircraft for Ukraine’s defense.
“I understand this is not an easy decision for these countries to make,” Menendez said in a statement. “Asking them to provide their own aircraft, especially as Russia’s military aggression edges closer to their own borders, would be unthinkable except in the direst circumstances. Unfortunately, that is the situation the world faces. Extraordinary times require extraordinary measures and sacrifices.”

Poland’s 94 combat-capable aircraft include 48 F-16 fighters it began to acquire from the U.S. in 2006 and 28 MiG-29s it acquired earlier that are decades older. How ready the Polish MiG-29s are at present could impact a potential deal, said aviation expert Richard Aboulafia, the managing director of AeroDynamic Advisory.

“Those are very old planes, and the Polish air force has been prioritizing F-16s for years,” Aboulafia said.

Beyond the question of whether Poland’s older MiG-29s need fixing, it could take time to strip sensitive NATO-linked electronics and avionics from them, if they’re to be transferred to Ukraine, said William Alberque, a former NATO arms control official now with the International Institute for Strategic Studies.

“You’re either taking a fighter they don’t need and doing an overhaul, which takes time and replacement of parts, or you’re taking a frontline aircraft that’s needed for different purposes,” Alberque said. “No Polish military or politician will want to say ‘We’re giving a bunch of planes to Ukraine and we’re a little less safe now,’ but if they can leverage it, I’d rather have a refurbished F-16 than a MiG-29 any day of the week.”

propaganda

Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

You are implying that information has been disseminated that is biased or misleading...what has been untrue? Intentionally untrue?
Yes, these are certainly valid questions, and sure, there may be more effective means to help Ukraine, though these need not be mutually exclusive.

As to risks, you betcha there are risks. Everything we do to help Ukraine fight back has a risk. But do we let Putin define what we can and can't do to repel an invasion?

As to debating the sorts of details you ask about in public, of course not. I'd hope that those discussions are being had by those who are expert in such areas, but not for public consumption.

As to Blinken "blackmailing"...wow. Your partisan stripes are showing again.

Yes, Poland has entirely legitimate concerns that may not have been adequately addressed...so, address them.

What would you suggest that would sufficiently support Poland's defensive needs if they send those planes?

[Peter Brown]

No China thread at Fanlax, so I’ll lay this here.

China is enabling many of the countries on this list and committing genocide, yet faces no real sanctions. They’re next. Strap in.

1A54343B-5F3C-4B1C-8CF7-9AD29CE29959.jpeg (99.16 KiB) Viewed 643 times

[CU88]

Yuval Noah Harari -

Putin’s defenders blame the war on “NATO expansion”. How can anyone blame NATO when it is Russian bombs that are falling on Kyiv? NATO never expands by force. Countries join NATO because it is their own wish. And countries wish to join NATO not because they want to conquer their neighbors, but because they are afraid of one particular neighbor. And when you see the images from Ukraine, can you blame countries like Estonia or Poland for fearing Russia?

Putin’s defenders say Russia feared it would be invaded. By who exactly? The last time anyone invaded Russia was when Hitler did it 80 years ago, and who is crazy enough to want to do it again? Was the German army secretly massing on the border in preparation for Blitzkrieg? Did Napoleon rise from his grave to lead a French army to Moscow? Can you name a single country that was preparing to invade Russia in 2022?

[Peter Brown]

If everything matters, nothing is important.

This to me describes Trump Derangement Syndrome

[jhu72]

Russian refugees flee Russia.

[seacoaster]

Zelenskyy continues to take his case to the free world, and gets a standing ovation from a packed House of Commons.

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status ... 1316751362

[jhu72]

A note for those interested in the fight against fascism. The people of Hungary go to the ballot box the first week of April. A Trump - Putin favorite, Victor Orban is up for re-election. I suspect but clearly don't know that the democratic energy of the Ukrainians will spill over into the Hungarian effort to free themselves from Orban.

[old salt]

Game on. Polish & maybe other NATO ally Migs headed to Ramstein AB in GE for transfer to the US for further transfer to Ukraine.

What would you suggest that would sufficiently support Poland's defensive needs if they send those planes?

There is no quick, easy way to "backfill" Poland. Removing those Migs will leave a significant hole in NATO's E flank air defenses.
That's how ill equipped our E NATO allies are. Those Migs, in quantity, are better than what all their NATO allies E of Germany & N of Greece operate.
We'll have to deploy USAF jets to donor countries until they acquire F-35's or additional F-16's already contracted & approved.
We'll have USAF jets & crews based in E NATO for years

There are not a bunch of surplus airworthy F-16's sitting idle. Global demand for used F-16's is so great that LM has reopened the F-16 production line for new jets for foreign military sales & to refurbish & upgrade used F-16's that become available as Israel & NATO buyers replace their F-16's with F-35s.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ary-sales/
To support the growing demand for new F-16 Fighting Falcon from partner nations, the U.S. Air Force has teamed with Lockheed Martin Corp. to open a new production line to build the F-16 Block 70/72 fighter aircraft at the company’s facility in Greenville, South Carolina.

Launched on Veterans Day 2019, the line is the only production facility for F-16s in the world, opening three years after the company’s long-time F-16 line in Fort Worth, Texas, wrapped up production.

Recently, and on behalf of five foreign military partners, the Air Force awarded Lockheed Martin Corp. approximately $14 billion, to build 128 F-16s at the facility through 2026.

“There are 25 nations operating F-16s today, and they have a lot of expertise with the airframe. The line helps us meet the global demand that a number of nations have for [F-16] aircraft and gives us the additional capability to provide the aircraft to countries interested in purchasing it for the first time.”

The first F-16s are expected to roll off the production line in 2022, and production is expected to increase after the first year. The aircraft will be delivered to multiple foreign military partners, including Bahrain, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Taiwan, and others, many of whom have expressed interest beyond the first deliveries.

More aircraft are expected to be built in the upcoming years, and there are requests for F-16s under review from additional foreign military partners.

In addition to leading efforts to field new F-16s, the Fighters and Advanced Aircraft Directorate is also modernizing 405 F-16s – operated by four partner nations – with the V-Configuration, which consists of new radar and other upgrades to make them similar to the aircraft that will come off the production line.

The F-16 is an enduring, highly capable compact fighter that will have a large role in many partner nations’ security for years to come.”

[Kismet]

A note for those interested in the fight against fascism. The people of Hungary go to the ballot box the first week of April. A Trump - Putin favorite, Victor Orban is up for re-election. I suspect but clearly don't know that the democratic energy of the Ukrainians will spill over into the Hungarian effort to free themselves from Orban.

Yup, which is why Orban is all in with NATO now. Electorate should vote his ass out.

Also reports now that Poland will transfer all of its inventory of its Mikoyan MiG-29 jet fighters to Ukraine via United States at Rammstein AB in Germany. US will replace that inventory with F-16s.

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statem ... to-ukraine

To OS' point, I suspect we are in for added air defense on Eastern Flank for years anyway. More business for Lockheed Martin building and refurbishing F-16s

[Peter Brown]

A note for those interested in the fight against fascism. The people of Hungary go to the ballot box the first week of April. A Trump - Putin favorite, Victor Orban is up for re-election. I suspect but clearly don't know that the democratic energy of the Ukrainians will spill over into the Hungarian effort to free themselves from Orban.

Yup, which is why Orban is all in with NATO now. Electorate should vote his ass out.

Also reports now that Poland will transfer all of its inventory of its Mikoyan MiG-29 jet fighters to Ukraine via United States at a US air base in Germany. US will replace that inventory with F-16s.

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statem ... to-ukraine

To OS' point, I suspect we are in for added air defense on Eastern Flank for years anyway. More business for Lockheed Martin building and refurbishing F-16s

Just so you guys know, Orbans only opponent is basically an American Republican.

“Péter Márki-Zay is a conservative mayor of Hódmezővásárhely, a small, rural town in the center of the country. A devout Christian with seven children, Márki-Zay is running on a pro-European, pro-rule of law, anti-corruption platform. He describes himself as “everything that Viktor Orbán pretends to be.”

“Perceived as a neo-liberal on economic issues, he opposes raising the minimum wage, believing that the market would be able to regulate salaries, and reforming the tax system. In a press interview in November 2021, he explained that "for the time being, it is in Hungary's interest to be a tax haven", with a corporate tax rate of 9%”.

Sign me up!

[old salt]

https://www.airforcemag.com/backfilling ... k-or-easy/

Backfilling NATO MiG Transfers to Ukraine Not Quick or Easy

March 7, 2022
If Poland, Romania, or other NATO countries transfer their Russian-made combat airplanes to Ukraine, “backfilling” those jets with American-made fighters, as Secretary of State Antony Blinken has suggested, wouldn’t happen rapidly.

...the F-16 production line has only recently re-opened, in a new location, and it will be a while before it starts delivering completed aircraft. The F-35 production line is nearing maximum capacity, and a Lockheed Martin official said it would take 36 months from contract signing to delivery of new aircraft. “Actual production time is 18 months,” the official said.

Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, and Slovakia all have the kinds of Russian-made aircraft Ukraine could fly, including MiG-29s. American types operated by those countries include 48 F-16s in service with Poland, which has also ordered 32 F-35s, with options for up to 48. Romania operates 17 F-16s and recently bought 32 more, second-hand, from Norway. Slovakia has ordered 14 F-16 Block 70 jets, the first of which are to arrive next year, and Bulgaria has officially ordered eight F-16 Block 70s and has requested eight more.

Providing F-16s or F-35s would be problematic, though, because wherever they came from, it would produce an immediate deficit not quickly restored. The options are as follows:

Provide aircraft from the U.S. Air Force/Air National Guard—While these aircraft could be transferred quite quickly, it would be some time before the affected units could be re-stocked with fresh aircraft, leaving them without a mission until deliveries of new airplanes are made. NATO partners may also not want these aircraft, because most are older and less sophisticated than the ones the allies already have, or are in the process of buying.
Agree to sell the allies new airplanes—In most cases, the candidate “donor” countries are already buying these aircraft. Washington could sweeten the deal by adding jets or discounting the price, or throwing in munitions or other support as part of the deal.

Provide aircraft from the “Boneyard”—It isn’t clear how many F-16s are in “inviolable” storage at the Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, Ariz., storage facility; i.e. those not already subject to being harvested for parts. A Davis-Monthan spokeswoman was not immediately able to provide numbers of aircraft in this status. Again, allies may not want regenerated airplanes, and it would likely take months to bring the aircraft back up to readiness after long storage.

Third-party transfers—some F-16 operators not in the European theater may have excess F-16s, or may be getting ready to trade up to F-35s, just as Norway transferred its excess jets to Slovakia and Israel recently sold early-model F-16s for use as “adversary air” platforms. The U.S. might offer to buy back these jets and provide them to MiG donor countries. Again, the receivers might not be willing to accept these aircraft, unless they were provided at no cost.

Ask non-European countries to take a later spot in line—Countries buying the F-35 but not threatened by Russia’s invasion might be persuaded to let their jets go to another customer and accept their F-35s later. Consideration would likely be offered.
A Lockheed spokeswoman said “decisions regarding new production jets, transfers of jets between customers, as well as upgrades of current fleets, are determined by the U.S. government. We follow the guidance of those determinations.”

Now that the F-16 production line has been re-established in Greenville, S.C.—where the Block 70/72 is the new production standard—the company is planning to begin flight testing the first jet produced there “in early 2023,” she said. The line was moved to make room at Fort Worth for expanded F-35 production, and to co-locate the production line with a nearby depot facility for F-16s, which recently regenerated its first aircraft.

The first F-16 to be produced at Greenville will go to Bahrain.

In a March 3 interview with Air Force Magazine at the AFA Warfare Symposium, Lockheed Aeronautics Vice President Gregory M. Ulmer said, “We are on contract for 122 new F-16s,” which will be delivered at a peak rate of about four a month through the mid-2020s. Ulmer said the company anticipates a potential market “from 300 to 500 more beyond that.”

Ulmer said Lockheed did the first F-16 fuselage mate at Greenville “in the last 30 days.” That was “a little late to our plan” because of supply chain issues due to the COVID-19 pandemic, he said. The company has also been challenged getting a sufficient number of workers at Greenville, as it is competing with factories nearby making Michelin tires and BMW automobiles. Ulmer said Lockheed offered jobs to 100 people at a recent job fair, versus a need for 300 workers.

[MDlaxfan76]

Game on. Polish & maybe other NATO ally Migs headed to Ramstein AB in GE for transfer to the US for further transfer to Ukraine.

What would you suggest that would sufficiently support Poland's defensive needs if they send those planes?

There is no quick, easy way to "backfill" Poland. Removing those Migs will leave a significant hole in NATO's E flank air defenses.
That's how ill equipped our E NATO allies are. Those Migs, in quantity, are better than what all their NATO allies E of Germany & N of Greece operate.
We'll have to deploy USAF jets to donor countries until they acquire F-35's or additional F-16's already contracted & approved.
We'll have USAF jets & crews based in E NATO for years

There are not a bunch of surplus airworthy F-16's sitting idle. Global demand for used F-16's is so great that LM has reopened the F-16 production line for new jets for foreign military sales & to refurbish & upgrade used F-16's that become available as Israel & NATO buyers replace their F-16's with F-35s.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ary-sales/
To support the growing demand for new F-16 Fighting Falcon from partner nations, the U.S. Air Force has teamed with Lockheed Martin Corp. to open a new production line to build the F-16 Block 70/72 fighter aircraft at the company’s facility in Greenville, South Carolina.

Launched on Veterans Day 2019, the line is the only production facility for F-16s in the world, opening three years after the company’s long-time F-16 line in Fort Worth, Texas, wrapped up production.

Recently, and on behalf of five foreign military partners, the Air Force awarded Lockheed Martin Corp. approximately $14 billion, to build 128 F-16s at the facility through 2026.

“There are 25 nations operating F-16s today, and they have a lot of expertise with the airframe. The line helps us meet the global demand that a number of nations have for [F-16] aircraft and gives us the additional capability to provide the aircraft to countries interested in purchasing it for the first time.”

The first F-16s are expected to roll off the production line in 2022, and production is expected to increase after the first year. The aircraft will be delivered to multiple foreign military partners, including Bahrain, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Taiwan, and others, many of whom have expressed interest beyond the first deliveries.

More aircraft are expected to be built in the upcoming years, and there are requests for F-16s under review from additional foreign military partners.

In addition to leading efforts to field new F-16s, the Fighters and Advanced Aircraft Directorate is also modernizing 405 F-16s – operated by four partner nations – with the V-Configuration, which consists of new radar and other upgrades to make them similar to the aircraft that will come off the production line.

The F-16 is an enduring, highly capable compact fighter that will have a large role in many partner nations’ security for years to come.”

Good...so, I guess the "blackmail" and "propaganda" worked. Guess it wasn't all BS.

Seriously, seems to me that we need to deploy fighters under US command to bases in Poland. We should be doing that regardless, given very real potential of Russian aggression. I'd think the Poles will welcome such. We need to forward deploy existing resources.

And yeah, sounds like we need to ramp up orders for planes. Turn on the war manufacturing machine for a bit.

Greenville may be a good place to buy some real estate?

[jhu72]

A note for those interested in the fight against fascism. The people of Hungary go to the ballot box the first week of April. A Trump - Putin favorite, Victor Orban is up for re-election. I suspect but clearly don't know that the democratic energy of the Ukrainians will spill over into the Hungarian effort to free themselves from Orban.

Yup, which is why Orban is all in with NATO now. Electorate should vote his ass out.

Also reports now that Poland will transfer all of its inventory of its Mikoyan MiG-29 jet fighters to Ukraine via United States at a US air base in Germany. US will replace that inventory with F-16s.

https://www.gov.pl/web/diplomacy/statem ... to-ukraine

To OS' point, I suspect we are in for added air defense on Eastern Flank for years anyway. More business for Lockheed Martin building and refurbishing F-16s

Just so you guys know, Orbans only opponent is basically an American Republican. <<< more bullsh*t, he is the consensus candidate of 6 liberal democratic parties who have decided not to compete against each other. They have joined forces for the first time ever, rather than competing against each other.

“Péter Márki-Zay is a conservative mayor of Hódmezővásárhely, a small, rural town in the center of the country. A devout Christian with seven children, Márki-Zay is running on a pro-European, pro-rule of law, anti-corruption platform. He describes himself as “everything that Viktor Orbán pretends to be.”

“Perceived as a neo-liberal on economic issues, he opposes raising the minimum wage, believing that the market would be able to regulate salaries, and reforming the tax system. In a press interview in November 2021, he explained that "for the time being, it is in Hungary's interest to be a tax haven", with a corporate tax rate of 9%”.

Sign me up!

[jhu72]

Game on. Polish & maybe other NATO ally Migs headed to Ramstein AB in GE for transfer to the US for further transfer to Ukraine.

What would you suggest that would sufficiently support Poland's defensive needs if they send those planes?

There is no quick, easy way to "backfill" Poland. Removing those Migs will leave a significant hole in NATO's E flank air defenses.
That's how ill equipped our E NATO allies are. Those Migs, in quantity, are better than what all their NATO allies E of Germany & N of Greece operate.
We'll have to deploy USAF jets to donor countries until they acquire F-35's or additional F-16's already contracted & approved.
We'll have USAF jets & crews based in E NATO for years

There are not a bunch of surplus airworthy F-16's sitting idle. Global demand for used F-16's is so great that LM has reopened the F-16 production line for new jets for foreign military sales & to refurbish & upgrade used F-16's that become available as Israel & NATO buyers replace their F-16's with F-35s.

https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display ... ary-sales/
To support the growing demand for new F-16 Fighting Falcon from partner nations, the U.S. Air Force has teamed with Lockheed Martin Corp. to open a new production line to build the F-16 Block 70/72 fighter aircraft at the company’s facility in Greenville, South Carolina.

Launched on Veterans Day 2019, the line is the only production facility for F-16s in the world, opening three years after the company’s long-time F-16 line in Fort Worth, Texas, wrapped up production.

Recently, and on behalf of five foreign military partners, the Air Force awarded Lockheed Martin Corp. approximately $14 billion, to build 128 F-16s at the facility through 2026.

“There are 25 nations operating F-16s today, and they have a lot of expertise with the airframe. The line helps us meet the global demand that a number of nations have for [F-16] aircraft and gives us the additional capability to provide the aircraft to countries interested in purchasing it for the first time.”

The first F-16s are expected to roll off the production line in 2022, and production is expected to increase after the first year. The aircraft will be delivered to multiple foreign military partners, including Bahrain, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Taiwan, and others, many of whom have expressed interest beyond the first deliveries.

More aircraft are expected to be built in the upcoming years, and there are requests for F-16s under review from additional foreign military partners.

In addition to leading efforts to field new F-16s, the Fighters and Advanced Aircraft Directorate is also modernizing 405 F-16s – operated by four partner nations – with the V-Configuration, which consists of new radar and other upgrades to make them similar to the aircraft that will come off the production line.

The F-16 is an enduring, highly capable compact fighter that will have a large role in many partner nations’ security for years to come.”

Good...so, I guess the "blackmail" and "propaganda" worked. Guess it wasn't all BS.

Seriously, seems to me that we need to deploy fighters under US command to bases in Poland. We should be doing that regardless, given very real potential of Russian aggression. I'd think the Poles will welcome such. We need to forward deploy existing resources.

And yeah, sounds like we need to ramp up orders for planes. Turn on the war manufacturing machine for a bit.

Greenville may be a good place to buy some real estate?

... I think today we finally got to the truth in that the problem all along has been the US inability to provide the backfills. Still a bunch of operational questions to be answered if this is to be done. I suspect this is a bit of information being tailored for Putin, sending the signal that NATO is willing to go further (Poland and Germany). Remember, he sees them (or has in the past) as the weak link. Within an hour of this press release, Biden announces he is going to stop buying Russian oil. Just ratcheting the pressure on Putin.

[old salt]

Good...so, I guess the "blackmail" and "propaganda" worked. Guess it wasn't all BS.

Don't get too excited yet. FNC's Pentagon reporter says " ...it appears the US govt was somewhat blindsided today by the Polish statement today...the news has been picked up by Russian propaganda channels like Sputnik. Clearly Russia is taking note of the Polish offer... I think what's happening here is the Poles have obviously offered Zelensky these Migs IF US backfills with new Migs. ...negotiations being done via the news media."

So yeah. This is still all propaganda. This is negotiation by twitter "news" releases.

Zelensky & Poland are playing hot potato with the US & NATO. Poland doesn't want to be the ones to say no & they want newer jets, sooner, so they combined to pull the pin on this sweat grenade & toss it in the lap of NATO, the US & Germany.

I warned you to temper your enthusiasm about the renewed NATO unity & watch how they handle this one.
This is not how NATO should operate. Was Germany even consulted ?

Zelensky is using sympathetic propaganda to blackmail NATO & individual members.
Nobody wants to tell him NO while he's winning the sympathetic propaganda war.

[Kismet]

Good...so, I guess the "blackmail" and "propaganda" worked. Guess it wasn't all BS.

Don't get too excited yet. FNC's Pentagon reporter says " ...it appears the US govt was somewhat blindsided today by the Polish statement today...the news has been picked up by Russian propaganda channels like Sputnik. Clearly Russia is taking note of the Polish offer... I think what's happening here is the Poles have obviously offered Zelensky these Migs IF US backfills with new Migs.

So yeah. This is still all propaganda. This is negotiation by twitter "news" releases.

Zelensky & Poland are playing hot potato with the US & NATO. Poland doesn't want to be the ones to say no & they want newer jets, sooner, so they combined to pull the pin on this sweat grenade & toss it in the lap of NATO, the US & Germany.

I warned you to temper your enthusiasm about the renewed NATO unity & watch how they handle this one.
This is not how NATO should operate. Was Germany consulted ?

Zelensky is using sympathetic propaganda to blackmail NATO & individual members.
Nobody wants to tell him NO while he's winning the sympathetic propaganda war.

Maybe some messaging to Putin from NATO going on, too. If US air assets are going to backfill in the short-term, He will need to worry about that, too.

Based upon Russian performance in Ukraine military operation, he'd be nuts to take on NATO especially after Eastern Flank buildup begins to occur. If Ukraine forces can do this sort of damage imagine what well-prepared NATO forces could do to Russian ground and air assets in very short order, too.