All Things Russia & Ukraine

[lagerhead]

Drones.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-useful-are-tu ... a-61035894

Drones are a delivery system. Where do the missiles come from? Would an Israeli/ German/ Turkish rocket be compatible with a US reaper or other drone?

[old salt]

Drones.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-useful-are-tu ... a-61035894

Drones are a delivery system. Where do the missiles come from? Would an Israeli/ German/ Turkish rocket be compatible with a US reaper or other drone?

The TB-2 use Turkish made weapons. Look under Armaments then click on each weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar_Ba ... #Armaments

US drones use US made Hellfire missiles. The Reaper also carries 500# bombs fitted with laser guided kits or precision GPS JDAM kits.
I don't know if they've been tested with foreign made weapons.

https://www.aerotime.aero/articles/3035 ... rom-turkey

[Peter Brown]

Lots of political momentum building for transfer of Migs from Poland & maybe Slovokia &/or Bulgaria.

As critical would be a transfer of Soviet vintage mobile air defense systems - SAMs & radars - which the Ukrainians know how to deploy, maintain & operate. All our former Warsaw Pact NATO allies still have this old stuff.
(an indication of how poorly armed & equipped our newer allies are -- decades wasted)

Supplying either planes or air defense systems will cut into the already meager defensive capability of the providing country.
This would require backfill in the providing country with US or EU nation deployed units & equipment.

Expensive & politically challenging. Risk vs reward ?
In hindsight -- it might have worked if started 6 mos ago. Now -- ? too late ?
? Can Ukraine effectively use this stuff & chances of quick destruction by Russian missile or air strikes ?

It's disgusting watching politicians finger point over "who lost Ukraine". They ALL did.
There was never this level of support to provide the level of military assistance needed to make a difference -- for valid reasons.
Putin saw a soft spot, in NATO, the EU & the US, & exploited it.

+1 a brilliant post OS. No one one this forum could say it any better. The time to help Ukraine was over 6 months ago, when the help might have made a difference.

Agree. With both of you.

Word tonight that Denmark is raising their defense spending to 2%. Also, Germany sent Ukraine some completely old and ineffective anti tank missiles.

Putin has convinced all these European countries to start spending or else he’s coming in.

Good times for defense industry stocks. I guess these javelin missiles are why countries don’t love tanks much anymore. Did you know one missile costs $175,000?! Not enough the launch unit.

[lagerhead]

Drones.

https://www.dw.com/en/how-useful-are-tu ... a-61035894

Drones are a delivery system. Where do the missiles come from? Would an Israeli/ German/ Turkish rocket be compatible with a US reaper or other drone?

The TB-2 use Turkish made weapons. Look under Armaments then click on each weapon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baykar_Ba ... #Armaments

US drones use US made Hellfire missiles. The Reaper also carries 500# bombs fitted with laser guided kits or precision GPS JDAM kits.
I don't know if they've been tested with foreign made weapons.

Thanks. I’ll look at the link.

[old salt]

More info on the Polish Mig swap. Blinken pressuring the Poles on tv. No Bueno.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... to-ukraine

[jhu72]

... US intel doesn't believe attack on Odessa will happen anytime soon. (Reuters)
... Denmark like Sweden and Norway now looking at NATO membership. (AP)

Denmark is a founding member of NATO. Do you mean Finland ?

Meant Denmark. Sorry, typed Norway rather than Finland.

Denmark Story

[jhu72]

Nikki Haley is a moron. Listened to her interview on Meet the Press. She contributes nothing to the conversation. Nothing but Trump propaganda. Moving her lips trying to convince people she is relevant. She is a joke.

[jhu72]

More info on the Polish Mig swap. Blinken pressuring the Poles on tv. No Bueno.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/4 ... to-ukraine

... the fact this story won't die counts for something.

[Kismet]

... US intel doesn't believe attack on Odessa will happen anytime soon. (Reuters)
... Denmark like Sweden and Norway now looking at NATO membership. (AP)

Denmark and Norway have been NATO members since 1949. They are original signatories to the treaty.

[seacoaster]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/puti ... ded_social

[MDlaxfan76]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ch ... arms-sales

You're wasting readers time. That was 2 years ago. They got that stuff & more. Find a new TDS excuse.

yup, but I think the point is that the current Admin has done far, far more arming of Ukraine that had the prior Admin, not until the troops began massing on the border, then they began pouring arms in. Ukraine was not invaded during the prior admin. which had actually been using arms as a blackmail weapon while lobbying for the lifting of various sanctions on Russia. Trump left office 14 mos ago. That canard is irrelevant.

While that is moot and I think an unnecessary argument at this point so why are you making it ? so too is any snide remarks about what could have been done 6 months ago. nothing snide about pointing out it would take 6 mos to get what they need in place & train them how to use it. Soviet era Migs & SAMs are hard to come by & allies who provide them have to be backfilled. That is, if you meant it that way.

But I'll assume not no you're not. Look at the innuendo you just implied above. and that all you were really saying is that this assistance to Ukraine's defenses takes time to implement, time that may not be available at this point.Thanks for the benefit of the obvious.

You made an excellent point that the will to provide this level of assistance did not previously exist on either side of the aisle, nor with our NATO allies.
I'm not confident that it does now with our NATO allies & will not fade away here.

But it does now. We've had an enormous wake up call. Some of us had been warning of Putin's proclivities and intentions for quite awhile. And very unfortunately, he's proving those warnings correct....& some of us have been pointing out the historical basis for his grievances & were demeaned as unpatriotic Russian agents

And my warning now is that if he takes Ukraine swiftly (and it's only day 11 folks!) he'll be emboldened to do more and more. He wants a direct fight with NATO...or appeasement. So any outcome other than war with NATO is appeasment ? Do you expect Putin to withdraw & surrender to the ICC ?And appeasement will only whet the appetite. or he'll be chastened by the problems revealed in his military, be too bogged down with trying to occupy & pacify Ukraine & too damaged economically to invade another neighbor in the near term.

okay, I tried to get along on a respectful discussion, but you choose prickly.

Yes, your comment was interpreted by others as a snide whack at the Biden Admin; I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you return to the 'it doesn't matter what Trump did' "14 months ago". The Ukrainians have been fighting Russia since 2014, during the Obama Admin when you at first tried to tell us it was really Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians not Russians sent by Putin...that position changed, but the war continued...and Trump tried to lift sanctions on Russia, tried to withhold arms that Congress had voted to send.

No, you did more than explain the "historical" as if we didn't know that history. the question was never what was Putin's rationale but rather his demand that Russia deserves to be an empire regardless of any people's desires for self-determination. You didn't simply repeat his propaganda, you were unwilling to say it was wrong. Or at least that's what your fellow posters asked you to make clear, and you openly ignored those questions.

But let's stop with the finger pointing. You were correct just above that the neither D's nor R's, nor our NATO allies, were ready to do this kind of arming of Ukraine...but that's changed with Putin's decisions.

Any outcome that accepts this aggression is appeasement. The "outcome" is not merely territory.

Yes, our hope is that his military will indeed be "bogged down"... and ultimately defeated as the Russian military runs through any morale it has left. Unfortunately, that's going to take quite awhile.

But if it moves quickly or we signal acceptance that "as long as he stops with the degradation of Ukraine" we'll be all cool and not crack down on Russia's economy...he'll just keep going.

Now he's saying that the planes are direct conflict with NATO...next he'll say the javelins are...and if we buy any of that crap, game over folks, he's coming.

[MDlaxfan76]

Nikki Haley is a moron. Listened to her interview on Meet the Press. She contributes nothing to the conversation. Nothing but Trump propaganda. Moving her lips trying to convince people she is relevant. She is a joke.

It was indeed quite the disgusting performance.

[Essexfenwick]

Nikki Haley is a moron. Listened to her interview on Meet the Press. She contributes nothing to the conversation. Nothing but Trump propaganda. Moving her lips trying to convince people she is relevant. She is a joke.

It was indeed quite the disgusting performance.

What’s “meet the press”? And who did the people who produce it vote for?

Trump managed world peace and American strength.

JoeTard has blown up the world and in one year.

[jhu72]

... US intel doesn't believe attack on Odessa will happen anytime soon. (Reuters)
... Denmark like Sweden and Norway now looking at NATO membership. (AP)

Denmark and Norway have been NATO members since 1949. They are original signatories to the treaty.

yes - I know. I typed Norway when I meant Finland. Denmark apparently hasn't been participating in European defensive efforts since the early 1990s, they apparently want back in.

[jhu72]

The children of the oligarchs.

[Peter Brown]

Nikki Haley is a moron. Listened to her interview on Meet the Press. She contributes nothing to the conversation. Nothing but Trump propaganda. Moving her lips trying to convince people she is relevant. She is a joke.

It was indeed quite the disgusting performance.

What’s “meet the press”? And who did the people who produce it vote for?

Trump managed world peace and American strength.

JoeTard has blown up the world and in one year.

Biden at this point is the single most destructive president in US history. He’s unable to do any one thing well. It’s really stunning.

Check out oil prices today. Wheat prices.

He has time to turn it around, but I’m not sure his staff is up to the challenge. They are trying to reopen oil doors from Iran and Venezuelan rather than starting Keystone in America. Mind numbingly dumb, counter productive, and frankly unamerican.

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/ch ... arms-sales

You're wasting readers time. That was 2 years ago. They got that stuff & more. Find a new TDS excuse.

yup, but I think the point is that the current Admin has done far, far more arming of Ukraine that had the prior Admin, not until the troops began massing on the border, then they began pouring arms in. Ukraine was not invaded during the prior admin. which had actually been using arms as a blackmail weapon while lobbying for the lifting of various sanctions on Russia. Trump left office 14 mos ago. That canard is irrelevant.

While that is moot and I think an unnecessary argument at this point so why are you making it ? so too is any snide remarks about what could have been done 6 months ago. nothing snide about pointing out it would take 6 mos to get what they need in place & train them how to use it. Soviet era Migs & SAMs are hard to come by & allies who provide them have to be backfilled. That is, if you meant it that way.

But I'll assume not no you're not. Look at the innuendo you just implied above. and that all you were really saying is that this assistance to Ukraine's defenses takes time to implement, time that may not be available at this point.Thanks for the benefit of the obvious.

You made an excellent point that the will to provide this level of assistance did not previously exist on either side of the aisle, nor with our NATO allies.
I'm not confident that it does now with our NATO allies & will not fade away here.

But it does now. We've had an enormous wake up call. Some of us had been warning of Putin's proclivities and intentions for quite awhile. And very unfortunately, he's proving those warnings correct....& some of us have been pointing out the historical basis for his grievances & were demeaned as unpatriotic Russian agents

And my warning now is that if he takes Ukraine swiftly (and it's only day 11 folks!) he'll be emboldened to do more and more. He wants a direct fight with NATO...or appeasement. So any outcome other than war with NATO is appeasment ? Do you expect Putin to withdraw & surrender to the ICC ?And appeasement will only whet the appetite. or he'll be chastened by the problems revealed in his military, be too bogged down with trying to occupy & pacify Ukraine & too damaged economically to invade another neighbor in the near term.

okay, I tried to get along on a respectful discussion, but you choose prickly.

Yes, your comment was interpreted by others as a snide whack at the Biden Admin; I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you return to the 'it doesn't matter what Trump did' "14 months ago". The Ukrainians have been fighting Russia since 2014, during the Obama Admin when you at first tried to tell us it was really Ukrainians fighting Ukrainians not Russians sent by Putin...that position changed, but the war continued...and Trump tried to lift sanctions on Russia, tried to withhold arms that Congress had voted to send.

No, you did more than explain the "historical" as if we didn't know that history. the question was never what was Putin's rationale but rather his demand that Russia deserves to be an empire regardless of any people's desires for self-determination. You didn't simply repeat his propaganda, you were unwilling to say it was wrong. Or at least that's what your fellow posters asked you to make clear, and you openly ignored those questions.

But let's stop with the finger pointing. You were correct just above that the neither D's nor R's, nor our NATO allies, were ready to do this kind of arming of Ukraine...but that's changed with Putin's decisions.

Any outcome that accepts this aggression is appeasement. The "outcome" is not merely territory.

Yes, our hope is that his military will indeed be "bogged down"... and ultimately defeated as the Russian military runs through any morale it has left. Unfortunately, that's going to take quite awhile.

But if it moves quickly or we signal acceptance that "as long as he stops with the degradation of Ukraine" we'll be all cool and not crack down on Russia's economy...he'll just keep going.

Now he's saying that the planes are direct conflict with NATO...next he'll say the javelins are...and if we buy any of that crap, game over folks, he's coming.

We’re in war crimes territory now so all this is changed with what he’s doing to civilians.

[seacoaster]

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles ... ium=social

"A new lend-lease program would expedite the transfer of much-needed lethal aid and equipment to Ukrainian defenders. Establishing a no-fly zone over Ukraine may be too provocative, but if the West is unwilling to stage that sort of intervention, then it ought to supply Ukraine with the tools it needs to control the skies itself, including ones that would allow Ukraine to strike Russian warehouses or staging areas holding aircraft, ballistic missiles, and cruise missiles beyond Ukraine’s borders. This would include UCAVs with air-to-surface and air-to-air capabilities, as well as fighter jets, such as the MiG-29s and Su-25s that Bulgaria, Poland, and Slovakia had proposed to transfer to Ukraine before backtracking for reasons that remain unclear. (Unconfirmed media reports suggest that Washington may have pressured those countries to reverse course.) If NATO members express concerns over transferring fighter jets because of potential gaps in their own air defenses, then the United States and NATO should step in to provide donors with advanced air defense capabilities and more modern fighters, with corresponding training.

The long-term aim of a lend-lease arrangement would be to create stockpiles of military aid along Ukraine’s borders. Ideally, any time Ukraine would submit a request for support, the necessary materiel would be readily available for transport rather than subject to a lengthy procurement process. The most daunting hurdle to this proposal would likely be the initial stages of passing legislation and coordinating plans with allies. But bureaucracy should not stand in the way of waging an existential fight for democracy. Historically, providing aid to Ukraine has been a strong point of bipartisan cooperation, and majorities in both parties understand the importance of Ukraine’s victory in this war. Therefore, the Biden administration is well positioned to mobilize bipartisan support for a new Lend-Lease Act, much as President Franklin Roosevelt did in 1941 despite isolationist opposition. Doing so could even provide a rallying point for Washington after years of domestic polarization.

For such a plan to succeed, officials in Washington and in European capitals must not become paralyzed by a sense of defeatism as they listen to doomsayers foretell the fall of Kyiv, Zelensky’s death, and Putin’s subjection of Ukraine to the brutal measures he used to level Grozny during the Chechen wars and Aleppo during the Syrian civil war. War is unpredictable; nothing in this fight is predetermined. A narrative of inevitable Ukrainian defeat could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Washington and its allies must not shrink from taking the actions that will help now in favor of steps that might be helpful only after Ukraine has already fallen. It is still well within the West’s ability to influence the outcome of this war; Western leaders must realize the agency they hold."

[jhu72]

Arms deliveries to Eastern Europe airfield near the Ukraine border.

[MDlaxfan76]

Putin's two (or is it one?) trolls are in full form this AM.