I hope I did not jinx Colgate. I see Hobart is beating them 10-3 through 3 quarters.oldbartman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:42 pmCorrection. Colgate lost to Canisius. Gate plays Hobart on Tuesday.DU-fan wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 5:08 pmI agree with your rankings with minor differences.calourie wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2019 11:49 am Putting this back on page one to get the bickering going. Top teams drifting up or down starting to establish what I consider tiers, which for my list I will separate. This doesn't mean that any team can't beat any other team on this list (which this year seems more the case than perhaps ever). Here's my shot:
!. Duke
2. Penn State
3. Yale
4. Maryland
5. Ohio State
6. Cornell (only because they took down Towson who took down Loyola)
7. Towson
8. Loyola
9. High Point
10. Virginia
11. Notre Dame
12. Denver
13. Syracuse
14. Georgetown
15. Lehigh
16. Johns Hopkins
17. Penn
18. Army
19. North Carolina
20. UMass
Also considered: Richmond. Hobart. BU, Delaware, Rutgers
Have at it FanLaxers
New Old Team Week's Result
1 1 Penn State (6 - 1) DNP
2 2 Duke (8 - 1) Beat Towson
3 4 Yale (4 - 1) Beat Cornell
4 6 Maryland (7 - 1) Beat Nova
5 9 Ohio State (6 - 0) DNP
6 3 Cornell (4 - 2) Lost to Yale
7 5 Towson (5 - 2) Lost to Duke
8 8 Loyola (5 - 2) Beat Navy
9 10 High Point (7 - 1) Beat VMI
10 12 Virginia (5 - 2) Beat ND
11 7 Notre Dame (3 - 2) Lost to UVA
12 11 Denver (4 - 2) DNP
13 13 Syracuse (4 - 2) Beat Rutgers
14 14 Georgetown (7 - 1) Beat Drexel
15 16 Lehigh (4 - 3) Beat Lafayette
16 17 Johns Hopkins (4 - 3) Beat Delaware
17 18 Army (6 - 2) Beat Holy Cross
18 20 Penn (3 - 3) Beat Princeton
19 21 Richmond (5-3) Beat Furman
20 24 North Carolina (6-2) Beat CSU
21 25 Hobart (5-1) Beat Wagner
22 28 UMass (5-3) Beat Utah
23 29 Boston University (6-2) Beat Bucknell
24 15 Rutgers (4 - 4) Lost to SU
25 19 Colgate (3 - 3) Lost to Hobart
26 22 Villanova (3-4) Lost to MD
27 23 Navy (4-3) Lost to Loyola
28 26 Princeton (2-4) Lost to Penn
29 27 Delaware (6-2) Lost to Hopkins
D1 Men Rankings
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
The D1 FBS football playoff is neither sanctioned nor recognized by the NCAA. It would have to have at least 20 teams in it to be NCAA approved.
Contrary to what has been mentioned in this thread, I am not aware of a maximum percentage of teams in a division that can make the playoffs. What is true however, is that all conferences that meet the minimum membership criteria must be granted an AQ and there must be at least as many at-large berths as AQs.
The lacrosse tournament has skirted the at-large >= AQ rule through "play-in" games lately. You also saw this in the D1 basketball tournament for years (following the creation of the MWC) when they went to 65. At that point, there were 33 AQs and 32 at-larges, with two AQs being relegated to "playing in."
Georgia Tech alumnus
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
So I guess if the ACC gained a team, they would quality for an AQ, and the NCAA would add an at-large berth so the tournament would grow to 18 or 19 from 17.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Yes, this is correct. It's why the tournament went to 18 for 3 seasons (2014-2016) when the ACC had 6 teams (14) and then the waiver years (15/16).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_NCAA ... ampionship
I am in favor of expansion to 24, but I think we need a little more growth in terms of teams playing to get there.
I should @GTAA to go ahead and go full varsity with our lacrosse team (I wish) . The ACC would have an AQ again then!
Georgia Tech alumnus
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
If I counted right (no guarantee that I did), 16 out of 54 made the dance in 2004.Homer wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:10 pm
I'm not sure if it's a "rule" or more of a rough guideline, but I think the NCAA tries to keep tournament participation to around 15-20% of the total # of teams for D1 sports. Maybe somebody knows the exact number. Going up to 24 would be 1/3 of D1 getting in and almost certainly would never happen. I don't know of any other sport that gets remotely close to that.
Next season we will be at 75 D1 teams.
16/54 = 29.6%
24/75 = 32%
Are these really all that different?
(17/75 = 22.66% by the way)
Georgia Tech alumnus
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
-
College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
While I'd like the ACC pick up a 6th team and get an AQ, and thus push D1 back to 18. 24 seems a little much at this time.
17 makes it a nice accomplishment to make the NCAA tmt.
Once you get out there around #20, you are getting a bunch of teams that were pretty inconsistent. With the parity in lacrosse, they might upset a top team on a given day, but they lose a large number of other games. With 24, you will probably also be getting almost all of the Big Ten and ACC.
While there is always a nice fight over who should be the last at-large team or two, there have actually been a few years where I haven't felt the last at-large team or two was really that deserving.
17 makes it a nice accomplishment to make the NCAA tmt.
Once you get out there around #20, you are getting a bunch of teams that were pretty inconsistent. With the parity in lacrosse, they might upset a top team on a given day, but they lose a large number of other games. With 24, you will probably also be getting almost all of the Big Ten and ACC.
While there is always a nice fight over who should be the last at-large team or two, there have actually been a few years where I haven't felt the last at-large team or two was really that deserving.
Live Free or Die!
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Basketball: 68/347 = 19.6%
Baseball: 64/299 = 21.4%
Soccer: 48/206 = 23.3%
Lacrosse: 17/75 = 22.3%
Baseball: 64/299 = 21.4%
Soccer: 48/206 = 23.3%
Lacrosse: 17/75 = 22.3%
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Thanks CU for posting the actual numbers. Farfromgeneva's memory was better than mine -- looks like the average is in the 20-24% range and not slightly lower as I'd recalled. Again I'm not suggesting there's a formal rule, but it's my impression this is the ballpark range they try to maintain for rough parity across sports.
What that says to me, coupled with the numbers CU posted, is that mlax has been on the high side for tournament spots ever since the expansion to 16 in 2003. It's only just now getting back into more normal proportions with the recent growth. Add another 6-7 teams to D1 and maybe pushing the tournament out to 20 becomes a reasonable ask.
Totally agree.Cooter wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:56 pm While I'd like the ACC pick up a 6th team and get an AQ, and thus push D1 back to 18. 24 seems a little much at this time.
17 makes it a nice accomplishment to make the NCAA tmt.
Once you get out there around #20, you are getting a bunch of teams that were pretty inconsistent. With the parity in lacrosse, they might upset a top team on a given day, but they lose a large number of other games. With 24, you will probably also be getting almost all of the Big Ten and ACC.
While there is always a nice fight over who should be the last at-large team or two, there have actually been a few years where I haven't felt the last at-large team or two was really that deserving.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Take some deep breaths, look at this Computer Ranking, look closer at each team's Ws and Ls, and... I wouldn't bet on these rankings but they make sense and, for some, may be mind expanding.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Can't really argue with it.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Top 5 and 20 look pretty good; seeing Fairfield (#27) ranked two notches better than UMass (#29) is well, likely to change once the two have met head-to-head, I dare say. Michigan at #46 and Princeton at #55 are very different from pre-season expectations, but not out of line with results on the field.admin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:43 am Take some deep breaths, look at this Computer Ranking, look closer at each team's Ws and Ls, and... I wouldn't bet on these rankings but they make sense and, for some, may be mind expanding.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Can't argue but post the rankings outside of FanLax and heads explode. High Point?! Maryland?! etc.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Nothing shocked me. But I bet there are some folks who will see where "their" team ended up, and blame the math....
STILL somewhere back in the day....
...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
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Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
I had a boss who used to drop a saying on me frequently I’ll share here. “Even a blind squirrel finds an occasional nut”. (I never had the euphemistic “rabbi” boss)Homer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:11 pm Thanks CU for posting the actual numbers. Farfromgeneva's memory was better than mine -- looks like the average is in the 20-24% range and not slightly lower as I'd recalled. Again I'm not suggesting there's a formal rule, but it's my impression this is the ballpark range they try to maintain for rough
Totally agree.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
High Point at #6 is the outlier here. laf/laxbytes/laxpower has them at #16, Massey at #18:admin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:43 am Take some deep breaths, look at this Computer Ranking, look closer at each team's Ws and Ls, and... I wouldn't bet on these rankings but they make sense and, for some, may be mind expanding.
http://www.laxbytes.com/2019/binmenstats/moving01.php
https://www.masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings
On the other hand, KRACH agrees that High Point is #6:
https://mattcarberry.com/ZRatings/Z-MLX.HTM
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
Top 20 looks fine though Id have Maryland a lot higher #3 perhaps and Denver somewhere in 11-15 grouping. Know more about where undefeated OSU should be soon. Cornell may be a bit high, probably have them is 6-10 grouping
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
The structure of 24 is much cleaner than 20. Why I would not advocate for expansion beyond what is necessary to meet the AQ/At-large balance requirements until 24 is reasonable.
8 hosts. 8 pods of three.
Round 1:
Thursday/Friday at host sites (top 8 seeds). Winner plays host on Saturday/Sunday
(Just like now, geography and "integrity of the bracket" both play a factor in deciding who goes where)
Round 2 - round of 16
Saturday/Sunday at host sites (top 8 seeds)
Quarterfinals and championship weekend same as now.
Georgia Tech alumnus
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
-
College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
2019 Georgia Tech lacrosse final record: 18-2; MCLA semifinalist
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College lacrosse television schedules: https://markmhart9.wixsite.com/mysite
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
CU77, Krach and Bytes are RPI based. I think Massey is too but I'm not 100% sure. They're always going to match to some level. FanLax isn't RPI based so any similarities are, i think, more meaningful. also, with rpi based models, it takes a lot of games before "they work". Ours should work after a handful or less games.
stupe, don't forget, the ranking is 100% W and L based. I'd also put Maryland higher but the computer says, Only based on Ws and Ls and... UMd's Ws aren't overly impressive.
stupe, don't forget, the ranking is 100% W and L based. I'd also put Maryland higher but the computer says, Only based on Ws and Ls and... UMd's Ws aren't overly impressive.
Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
No, they're not. I'm thoroughly familiar with how both are computed, and they have nothing to do with RPI. (They're also quite different from each other; Bytes is based solely on goal differential, while KRACH uses only wins and losses.) Massey doesn't reveal his detailed formula, but from his description of it it's clear that it's not related to RPI either.
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Re: Inside Lacrosse rankings
My understanding is that while Lax Bytes starts with the goal differential, it normalizes it in two sensible ways:
- It adjusts for Home Field Advantage.
- It collapses run-away scores so a blow-out and a comfortable margin of victory have similar impact.
- It adjusts for Home Field Advantage.
- It collapses run-away scores so a blow-out and a comfortable margin of victory have similar impact.
Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb'red.