All Things Russia & Ukraine

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MDlaxfan76
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:11 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:07 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:16 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
... I don't personally don't have much interest in what someone who sells the LBJ killed Kennedy conspiracy theory thinks.
you're right, JHU72......LBJ didn't profit one penny from war. I mean, if it were tRump, what would you be saying about his "friends" at that Helicopter company ?

Ever go to his library ? The evidence is all right there, in front of you. As if he is bragging about it.



Fascinating speech.

I’m blown away that no western leader hasn’t flown into Moscow for a face to face. I realize most Democrats at this point hate Putin (they’d immediately pivot 180 degrees if he became anti Trump), but as countries and cultures, we have far more in common than not. Putin seems to act first from a position of defending his country from terrorism and attack. That’s logical.

He’s not doing himself any favors by relentlessly bombing the daylights out of some Ukrainian cities. That’s illogical. It’s hard to square that with his speech.
.. I can understand how a DeathSantis supporter would feel a kinship with an autocratic killer like Putin. :roll:
Again, on the "Putin payroll"?

Would explain a lot.
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dislaxxic
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by dislaxxic »

DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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cradleandshoot
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by cradleandshoot »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:38 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..
Why not try the reset button my little yellow hobgoblin?? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe the queen of evil should interject her 2 cents into the conversation. She could be the only American that scares the chit out of Putin.
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
runrussellrun
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by runrussellrun »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:07 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:49 pm
jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 3:16 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
... I don't personally don't have much interest in what someone who sells the LBJ killed Kennedy conspiracy theory thinks.
you're right, JHU72......LBJ didn't profit one penny from war. I mean, if it were tRump, what would you be saying about his "friends" at that Helicopter company ?

Ever go to his library ? The evidence is all right there, in front of you. As if he is bragging about it.



Fascinating speech.

I’m blown away that any western leader hasn’t flown into Moscow for a face to face. I realize most Democrats at this point hate Putin (they’d immediately pivot 180 degrees if he became anti Trump), but as countries and cultures, we have far more in common than not. Putin seems to act first from a position of defending his country from terrorism and attack. That’s logical.

He’s not doing himself any favors by relentlessly bombing the daylights out of some Ukrainian cities. That’s illogical. It’s hard to square that with his speech.
why always 4 sides to every story, b/c at least 2 of them, come from the same person. Saying one thing, doing another.

No different than if, for 3 straight years, your doctor tells you at your annual checkup " you need to lose weight", and we reply, "I will".....neither one of us is listening, nor cares, what the other is saying. Year 4, Doc doesn't bring it up anymore. Does that mean they stopped caring, or, they just stopped "pretending" to care ? :D
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runrussellrun
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by runrussellrun »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
Yup....even in the cartoons......they look like us. white, christians........

no, not the canuckers...........the Ukrainins. Like your media keeps on pointing out. ;)

also, it looks like the trucker is there to HELP the Ukrainians, offering his spacious cab as temporary shelter.

But, certainly, losing access to your life savings isn't devasting. Go ahead, try it for 3 days. try buying something, when you can't. no cash, plastic only. go ahead.....see how long you will last. nope, no big deal. all, because the government was forcing you to take a shot , that clearly does not much, so why force people to take it? Should we make the US Navy Seals, that have legal action against the US govt. over getting the vaccines, ineligible to access their legal funds in their legal banks. Yes....that IS what you love.
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Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
Peter Brown
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Peter Brown »

jhu72 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:32 pm A real American hero. Kellyanne should recommend this guy as an advisor to his buddie Ronnie DeathSantis. Another Putin fan.



This guy sounds like many Democrats I know!

:lol: :lol:
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Peter Brown »

runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:13 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
Yup....even in the cartoons......they look like us. white, christians........

no, not the canuckers...........the Ukrainins. Like your media keeps on pointing out. ;)

also, it looks like the trucker is there to HELP the Ukrainians, offering his spacious cab as temporary shelter.

But, certainly, losing access to your life savings isn't devasting. Go ahead, try it for 3 days. try buying something, when you can't. no cash, plastic only. go ahead.....see how long you will last. nope, no big deal. all, because the government was forcing you to take a shot , that clearly does not much, so why force people to take it? Should we make the US Navy Seals, that have legal action against the US govt. over getting the vaccines, ineligible to access their legal funds in their legal banks. Yes....that IS what you love.




+1

RRR knocking it out the park today.

The carefree attitude, of those who upon looking at a government seizing a persons accounts with no court order and no charges, is simply stunning, if not revolting.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Peter Brown »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:38 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..



Hard disagree.

Too many Americans have an intense phobia of trying to understand other cultures and their history. See above,

For the billionth time, I’m hoping that Ukraine succeeds, but to simply dismiss the Russian/Putin reasoning as that of a crazed animal is really unwise. In order to actually have a conversation with your adversary, it helps to try to understand where they are coming from. Someone is capable of talking Putin out of this humanitarian disaster, it you’ll never be that person by being simplistic.

One things know is we need to get better leaders in America pronto. Every time a Democrat is in office, the worlds strongmen take advantage.
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:40 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:13 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
Yup....even in the cartoons......they look like us. white, christians........

no, not the canuckers...........the Ukrainins. Like your media keeps on pointing out. ;)

also, it looks like the trucker is there to HELP the Ukrainians, offering his spacious cab as temporary shelter.

But, certainly, losing access to your life savings isn't devasting. Go ahead, try it for 3 days. try buying something, when you can't. no cash, plastic only. go ahead.....see how long you will last. nope, no big deal. all, because the government was forcing you to take a shot , that clearly does not much, so why force people to take it? Should we make the US Navy Seals, that have legal action against the US govt. over getting the vaccines, ineligible to access their legal funds in their legal banks. Yes....that IS what you love.




+1

RRR knocking it out the park today.

The carefree attitude, of those who upon looking at a government seizing a persons accounts with no court order and no charges, is simply stunning, if not revolting.
Freezing money associated criminal activity that's causing hundreds of millions in economic damage is totally the same as invading a country and killing civilians.

The TDS is strong today.
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dislaxxic
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by dislaxxic »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:46 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:38 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..



Hard disagree.

Too many Americans have an intense phobia of trying to understand other cultures and their history. See above,

For the billionth time, I’m hoping that Ukraine succeeds, but to simply dismiss the Russian/Putin reasoning as that of a crazed animal is really unwise. In order to actually have a conversation with your adversary, it helps to try to understand where they are coming from. Someone is capable of talking Putin out of this humanitarian disaster, it you’ll never be that person by being simplistic.

One things know is we need to get better leaders in America pronto. Every time a Democrat is in office, the worlds strongmen take advantage.
Not following you (a fool's errand, i know...) but - "hard disagree" ? with WHAT?? That Vlad is afraid of democracy? Trying to find where i said he is a "crazed animal"...? Huh? I said he is making up a story about why he is afraid of NATO expansionism ("They want to physically destroy Russia") when NATO has shown ZERO interest in actually encroaching on Russia proper. Containment...a DEFENSIVE military posture...is what it's historically about and Putin is making up a story to play his little strongman games...to justify it. It's bullcrap.

Just not following the twisting logic you sound like you're attempting to assert...the only message i can make out is "dems and liberals, bad. Strongmen only thing Putin respects". Not finding much substance in that "point"...especially in this context. sorry.

..
"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:13 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
Yup....even in the cartoons......they look like us. white, christians........

no, not the canuckers...........the Ukrainins. Like your media keeps on pointing out. ;)

also, it looks like the trucker is there to HELP the Ukrainians, offering his spacious cab as temporary shelter.

But, certainly, losing access to your life savings isn't devasting. Go ahead, try it for 3 days. try buying something, when you can't. no cash, plastic only. go ahead.....see how long you will last. nope, no big deal. all, because the government was forcing you to take a shot , that clearly does not much, so why force people to take it? Should we make the US Navy Seals, that have legal action against the US govt. over getting the vaccines, ineligible to access their legal funds in their legal banks. Yes....that IS what you love.
Ukraine is like nearly all white and like 70% Christian. How would you like them portrayed in the media?

I don't live in Canada and I'm not breaking the law for weeks on end, causing massive economic damage, with people sending me money so I can keep breaking the law. Everywhere around here takes cash. So no worries about that.

No talk about the fact the convoy was astroturfed either, huh?

The shot does not much?

Would you rather have had the provincial police shoot the protestors to disperse them? Yes... that IS what you love.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detai ... ial-system

The steep sell-off represented the country’s fourth financial crisis in 25 years. In 1998 Russia defaulted on its debt and stopped propping up its currency. A decade later, amid a global financial crisis, Vladimir Putin ordered the invasion of Georgia. And in 2014 investors fled Russia again, following his annexation of Crimea.

Since Mr Putin began massing forces on Ukraine’s border, the rouble has lost 33% of its value against the dollar. The currency has fallen faster than in 2008 and 2014, although its decline so far is not as large as that of 2014. Russia’s financial woes are not yet as severe as in 1998, when the rouble plunged by 70%. But another debt default could be similarly devastating.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

https://www.economist.com/britain/2022/ ... londongrad

Wearing nothing but a pair of shorts and a felt cap on his head, the thickset man lifts two bunches of oak, birch and eucalyptus leaves above his head. After wafting a wall of hot air across the 90-degree-Celsius sauna, he rhythmically pounds the prostrate body before him. Sweat and steam bounce upwards with each stroke. After ten minutes of thudding, and a strong sensation that his own skeleton is overheating, the dazed victim is led outside, where a bucket of water is upended over his head. A near-freezing plunge pool is the next destination. Shivering slightly, the recipient is dried and propped up in a stupor against a tree stump. A banya, or Russian bathhouse, is not for the faint-hearted. But there are few better locations in which to contemplate the rise and fall of Londongrad.

The rise of Londongrad was planned. British governments of all stripes opened the country to Russian capital. In 1994, under John Major, the Conservatives introduced a “golden visa” scheme that handed residency rights to anyone who invested £1m ($1.3m). Tony Blair’s Labour government carried it on with enthusiasm. Ken Livingstone, London’s leftist mayor from 2000 to 2008, said he wanted “Russian companies to regard London as their natural base in Europe”. Boris Johnson, Mr Livingstone’s successor, was good pals with Evgeny Lebedev, proprietor of the Evening Standard, son of a former kgb agent and billionaire. Mr Johnson, now prime minister, made the Anglo-Russian a peer in 2020.

For those arriving from Vladimir Putin’s Russia, London offered safety, security and secrecy. Britain has accommodating laws on tax, libel and property, enforced by an efficient, if expensive, court system—which is, moreover, accommodating in the matter of injunctions. Extradition to Russia, with its corrupt judiciary, is a no-no in the eyes of English judges. On top of this, the private schools are good and so is the shopping. London is an “everything haven”, in the description of Oliver Bullough, author of a forthcoming book, “Butler to the World: How Britain Became the Servant of Tycoons, Tax Dodgers, Kleptocrats and Criminals”. Discretion is key. It follows the rule above a banya’s door: “Please keep conversation to a minimum.”

Britain’s new butler class is happy with its role. A public-relations firm can earn a £100,000-a-month retainer by providing an oligarch with pinkie-ring-toting smooth-talkers to fob off questions. Former politicians can earn six-figure salaries sitting on a board, which beats the £323 per diem offered by the House of Lords. Their reputation for big tips makes Russian oligarchs welcome in any restaurant’s private room. Lawyers love them, too. In “Londongrad: From Russia with Cash; The Inside Story of the Oligarchs”, by Mark Hollingsworth and Stuart Lansley, one rich arriviste declares: “What you need to know about me is that I love litigation more than I like sex!” At £1,000 an hour, so do lawyers.

Now, however, the money is too hot. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has led to sanctions on a host of Russian businesses, some with links to Britain. Moves against some oligarchs based in Britain are expected to follow. Unexplained wealth orders, whereby people with suspicious quantities of cash are meant to show how they earned it, and face forfeit if they cannot, will be more tightly enforced. Golden visas will be scrapped. Potential transparency reforms mean that the ultimate beneficiaries of “Matryoshka doll” shell companies must be revealed. Money was stored in London to keep it both hidden and free from the clutches of the Russian state; having it made public and squeezed by the British one defies the point of moving it. When things become too hot in the banya, a jump into the plunge pool is required. It can be painful.

As anyone who has been on the business end of a leaf-beating can attest, temperature swings can cause a wave of euphoria. But it is often brief. Anyone expecting Britain to clean up its act post-Londongrad is mistaken. Lack of enforcement rather than lack of rules explains Britain’s lax attitude to funny money. Its government spends a little under £1bn annually on solving financial crime, but money-laundering costs its economy about 100 times that. Badly paid lawyers and investigators working on behalf of the government are steam-rolled by opponents who earn ten times as much. The purpose of a system is what it does. It was not a series of unfortunate events that shaped London into the go-to destination for those who earned their cash in, to put it politely, unorthodox ways. It was, and remains, the business model.

Signet-ring industrial complex
When dodgy Russian money evaporates, dodgy money from other sources will replace it. Russia is hardly the only country blessed by resources but cursed by its elites. Nigerian and Azeri cash sloshes around the City of London. Russia is merely the current pariah, not the only one. Saudi Arabia’s habit of chopping up journalists and blowing up its neighbours makes it an awkward ally. But the British state has few qualms about letting it buy prized assets (and even unprized ones, such as Newcastle United). Russians made up a fifth of the golden visas dished out since 2008; Chinese citizens accounted for a third. What happens if China invades Taiwan? Expect the same wrenching process, except with Chinese rather than Russian wealth sieved out of the system. Londongrad has fallen. Another moniker will replace it. But the banyas will remain.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Peter Brown »

dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:39 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:46 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:38 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..
Hard disagree.

Too many Americans have an intense phobia of trying to understand other cultures and their history. See above,

For the billionth time, I’m hoping that Ukraine succeeds, but to simply dismiss the Russian/Putin reasoning as that of a crazed animal is really unwise. In order to actually have a conversation with your adversary, it helps to try to understand where they are coming from. Someone is capable of talking Putin out of this humanitarian disaster, it you’ll never be that person by being simplistic.

One things know is we need to get better leaders in America pronto. Every time a Democrat is in office, the worlds strongmen take advantage.
Not following you (a fool's errand, i know...) but - "hard disagree" ? with WHAT?? That Vlad is afraid of democracy? Trying to find where i said he is a "crazed animal"...? Huh? I said he is making up a story about why he is afraid of NATO expansionism ("They want to physically destroy Russia") when NATO has shown ZERO interest in actually encroaching on Russia proper. Containment...a DEFENSIVE military posture...is what it's historically about and Putin is making up a story to play his little strongman games...to justify it. It's bullcrap.

Just not following the twisting logic you sound like you're attempting to assert...the only message i can make out is "dems and liberals, bad. Strongmen only thing Putin respects". Not finding much substance in that "point"...especially in this context. sorry.




US went over the top in anti Russia sanctions, virtually leaving Putin no choice but to extend the operation and force a victory to save face. Error by Biden/Blinken.

Why would Putin back down now? I support tough sanctions on Russia but putting the Kremlin on economic "death ground" immediately gives Moscow zero incentive to dial back its aggression in Ukraine, rather the opposite.

Even JFK Kennedy gave Khrushchev an off ramp.

Give your adversary an acceptable off-ramp to deescalate. If you press your "advantage" & convince your opponent his only way out is to fight his way through it all. He WILL take that option, and everyone will be worse off.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War, counseled military leaders to build a “golden bridge” for an opponent to retreat across. Without an escape route to retreat, your opponent will engage in battle and fight like a caged and cornered tiger. You can avoid battling the tiger and even win the war if you give your opponent a graceful, face-saving way out. Face-saving is an important part of the negotiation process and is vital to building a golden bridge. Building a golden bridge requires that you involve your opponent in the solution and that you work to satisfy your opponent’s unmet needs.

That’s what I was trying to say.
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by a fan »

Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:52 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:39 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:46 pm
dislaxxic wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:38 pm
DMac wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 1:40 pm https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/03/no_ ... y-24-2022/
Comments?
What consistently goes unsaid in all of Vlad's pronouncements about NATO expansionism is that what he REALLY fears is DEMOCRACY on his borders. The whole "they're surrounding us and want to invade, occupy and force regime change on us" schtick is a narrative that suits his lying, self-serving fearmongering, aimed, of course, at preserving his autocratic oligarchy, with him firmly entrenched for life as its Leader.

Has ANY NATO policy or position EVER overtly said that the aim is forcible regime change in Russia, involving physical invasion, occupation, annexation, overthrow, or any OTHER of the fears he always foists on us when he screeds away at us?

It's democracy he fears, folks, and he throws up this "they're coming for us" nonsense as a smoke screen to protect his strongman rule.

N ow, with this action, he seems to have invited a pushback to his aggression that may well involve the destruction of his economy, in an effort to get him to cease his aggression in Ukraine. Until he pulled this insane stunt, the world was happy enough to leave him alone, trade and interact with his country and look the other way at the myriad ways he oppresses, loots, and stifles his own country.

This is all on him...his misguided "reasoning" be damned.

..
Hard disagree.

Too many Americans have an intense phobia of trying to understand other cultures and their history. See above,

For the billionth time, I’m hoping that Ukraine succeeds, but to simply dismiss the Russian/Putin reasoning as that of a crazed animal is really unwise. In order to actually have a conversation with your adversary, it helps to try to understand where they are coming from. Someone is capable of talking Putin out of this humanitarian disaster, it you’ll never be that person by being simplistic.

One things know is we need to get better leaders in America pronto. Every time a Democrat is in office, the worlds strongmen take advantage.
Not following you (a fool's errand, i know...) but - "hard disagree" ? with WHAT?? That Vlad is afraid of democracy? Trying to find where i said he is a "crazed animal"...? Huh? I said he is making up a story about why he is afraid of NATO expansionism ("They want to physically destroy Russia") when NATO has shown ZERO interest in actually encroaching on Russia proper. Containment...a DEFENSIVE military posture...is what it's historically about and Putin is making up a story to play his little strongman games...to justify it. It's bullcrap.

Just not following the twisting logic you sound like you're attempting to assert...the only message i can make out is "dems and liberals, bad. Strongmen only thing Putin respects". Not finding much substance in that "point"...especially in this context. sorry.




US went over the top in anti Russia sanctions, virtually leaving Putin no choice but to extend the operation and force a victory to save face. Error by Biden/Blinken.

Why would Putin back down now? I support tough sanctions on Russia but putting the Kremlin on economic "death ground" immediately gives Moscow zero incentive to dial back its aggression in Ukraine, rather the opposite.

Even JFK Kennedy gave Khrushchev an off ramp.

Give your adversary an acceptable off-ramp to deescalate. If you press your "advantage" & convince your opponent his only way out is to fight his way through it all. He WILL take that option, and everyone will be worse off.

Sun Tzu: The Art of War, counseled military leaders to build a “golden bridge” for an opponent to retreat across. Without an escape route to retreat, your opponent will engage in battle and fight like a caged and cornered tiger. You can avoid battling the tiger and even win the war if you give your opponent a graceful, face-saving way out. Face-saving is an important part of the negotiation process and is vital to building a golden bridge. Building a golden bridge requires that you involve your opponent in the solution and that you work to satisfy your opponent’s unmet needs.

That’s what I was trying to say.
Biden isn’t the opponent. Something you right wingers will never understand. It’s not 1980 anymore, where everything is a proxy war.

It’s up to Zelensky, so long as he draws breath. All he as to is deny NATO, and accept US defense systems…which is the same freaking thing. A rose, by any other name….
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Yeah, it's an idiotic take. What kind of "golden bridge" did Putin build for Zelenskyy when he invaded?
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

Nuclear plant is burning.
“I wish you would!”
runrussellrun
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by runrussellrun »

NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 8:11 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:40 pm
runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:13 pm
NattyBohChamps04 wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 5:07 pm
Peter Brown wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 4:15 pmJustin Trudeau wants a word
Image
Yup....even in the cartoons......they look like us. white, christians........

no, not the canuckers...........the Ukrainins. Like your media keeps on pointing out. ;)

also, it looks like the trucker is there to HELP the Ukrainians, offering his spacious cab as temporary shelter.

But, certainly, losing access to your life savings isn't devasting. Go ahead, try it for 3 days. try buying something, when you can't. no cash, plastic only. go ahead.....see how long you will last. nope, no big deal. all, because the government was forcing you to take a shot , that clearly does not much, so why force people to take it? Should we make the US Navy Seals, that have legal action against the US govt. over getting the vaccines, ineligible to access their legal funds in their legal banks. Yes....that IS what you love.




+1

RRR knocking it out the park today.

The carefree attitude, of those who upon looking at a government seizing a persons accounts with no court order and no charges, is simply stunning, if not revolting.
Freezing money associated criminal activity that's causing hundreds of millions in economic damage is totally the same as invading a country and killing civilians.

The TDS is strong today.
it's weird......thought humans craved knowledge....now they lust for the suppression of it.
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
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NattyBohChamps04
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Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

runrussellrun wrote: Thu Mar 03, 2022 9:45 pm it's weird......thought humans craved knowledge....now they lust for the suppression of it.
A portion of humans have craved knowledge forever. A portion of humans have been suppressing knowledge forever.

It's not one or the other. We have a wide range of emotions and thoughts as a species if you haven't noticed.
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