All Things Russia & Ukraine

[old salt]

"The Ukraine"

That's an old clip. It was not officially racist & insulting yet.

[Typical Lax Dad]

"The Ukraine"

That's an old clip. It was not officially racist & insulting yet.

[Essexfenwick]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

[RedFromMI]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

Trump "kept" Putin from invading because Putin knew that in a second term he could get something potentially much greater - the dissolution of NATO. Who needs Ukraine then - Russia could start to muscle their way into all sorts of neighbors then...

[Essexfenwick]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

Trump "kept" Putin from invading because Putin knew that in a second term he could get something potentially much greater - the dissolution of NATO. Who needs Ukraine then - Russia could start to muscle their way into all sorts of neighbors then...

Wrong

Putin attacked 13 months into the JoeTard dementia admin before Trump or somebody else smart gets elected again

China will take Taiwan before JoeTard leaves as well.

It’s called strike while the retard and his retarded weaklings are running the USA.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

Trump "kept" Putin from invading because Putin knew that in a second term he could get something potentially much greater - the dissolution of NATO. Who needs Ukraine then - Russia could start to muscle their way into all sorts of neighbors then...

If Trump was in office, he wouldn’t lend any support for Ukraine because Zelensky didn’t do him a favor and announce that Joe
and Hunter were being investigated….he is petty that way…..always has been…..anyone want to deny it?

[Brooklyn]

https://www.rt.com/on-air/


Russia Today news outlet. Gives a far different viewpoint of the news and reports items not covered by the slanted media. For example, Luhansk was identified as The Luhansk Republic. The MSM has not identified it as an independent country.

[a fan]

seriously. He was the leader of a weak regional power. His resolve was obviously underestimated. Every time his perceived grievances were raised here, in the media, & in the political debate, it was mocked & whoever brought it up was ridiculed & or defamed as a Putin apologist &/or Russian agent. Reality can bring a bitter taste.

FoxNation straw man talking points?

You’re better than this. Everyone took him seriously. What we laughed at was that he was a strategic genius, and was playing chess for 20’years. He’s as clumsy as he is stupid.

What we also mocked was the FoxNation 360…where you guys think we should appease Putin, and simply give him what he wants .

I ask again, and someday you’ll answer: why doesn’t the US invade Mexico if this move of Putins is so brilliant?

You're smarter than that. Still in denial, you sound just like those you are criticizing.

Who in this forum ever said it was brilliant to invade ?
It would have been brilliant if he got what he wanted without having to invade.

Yes. Apparently you and I are serving and volleying strawmen....... I'll stop, and expect you to do the same.

[old salt]

I ask again, and someday you’ll answer: why doesn’t the US invade Mexico if this move of Putins is so brilliant?

OK, I'll answer.

Because it's not a valid analogy. Mexico is a narco state, run by cartels, a country barely held together by a corrupt elite.
If we invade, the cartels would rule without restraint.

The US does not want to annex Mexico. We want to help & bolster the government there.

The situations could not be more different, ...unless the Mexican govt implodes & the cartels rule.

A compliant Ukraine, back in Russia, would be a net plus for Russia. It was the best part of Russia.

[a fan]

I ask again, and someday you’ll answer: why doesn’t the US invade Mexico if this move of Putins is so brilliant?

OK, I'll answer.

Because it's not a valid analogy. Mexico is a narco state, run by cartels, a country barely held together by a corrupt elite.
If we invade, the cartels would rule without restraint.

The US does not want to annex Mexico. We want to help & bolster the government there.

The situations could not be more different, ...unless the Mexican govt implodes & the cartels rule.

Having Ukraine back in Russia would be a net plus for Russia. It was the best part of Russia.

That's not an unfair response, I'll grant you that....but That's not the side I was looking at.......so my bad on that count.

It's how the world would react. No one would put up with a move like that. It's really that simple.

[old salt]

Ukrainian member of Parliament on Morning Joe says we don't need airplanes to enforce a no fly zone.
We can do it with an electromagnetic pulse.

[old salt]

I ask again, and someday you’ll answer: why doesn’t the US invade Mexico if this move of Putins is so brilliant?

OK, I'll answer.

Because it's not a valid analogy. Mexico is a narco state, run by cartels, a country barely held together by a corrupt elite.
If we invade, the cartels would rule without restraint.

The US does not want to annex Mexico. We want to help & bolster the government there.

The situations could not be more different, ...unless the Mexican govt implodes & the cartels rule.

Having Ukraine back in Russia would be a net plus for Russia. It was the best part of Russia.

That's not an unfair response, I'll grant you that....but That's not the side I was looking at.......so my bad on that count.

It's how the world would react. No one would put up with a move like that. It's really that simple.

It matters to us how the rest of the world would react. Russia, ...not so much.

[old salt]

Ukrainian member of Parliament on Morning Joe says we don't need airplanes to enforce a no fly zone.
We can do it with an electromagnetic pulse.

Also on MJ, Sen Coons, DE, echoes claim the some EU countries are sending Mig fighter planes.

If RT is off the air for disinformation, why not MSNBC ?

[a fan]

It matters to us how the rest of the world would react. Russia, ...not so much.

I don't agree. We'll find out soon enough....

[old salt]

Ukrainian member of Parliament on Morning Joe says we don't need airplanes to enforce a no fly zone.
We can do it with an electromagnetic pulse.

Also on MJ, Sen Coons, DE, echoes claim the some EU countries are sending Mig fighter planes.

If RT is off the air for disinformation, why not MSNBC ?

On MJ, Poroshenko takes it further, saying " 70 military jets, Mig-29, SU-27, & SU-25 would be based on the airfield in Poland & Ukrainian pilots can make battle with the Russia aggressor in Ukrainian airspace."
...The Flying Kielbasas.

Historical enmity between the Poles & Russians, with Ukrainians in the middle.
A lot of blood has been shed in that part of the world down through the centuries.
...& now we're involved, & expected to solve it, without getting dragged into it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Who is pro war?

That's actually a good question and I'm gonna answer it with a question:


WHO HERE IS PRO WAR? That is, who wants Biden to intervene militarily in that border dispute? Who wants to send troops as well as war materiél? Money? Engage in an international boycott, embargo, suspension of Russia from international competition, freezing of assets, and other acts of war?

I oppose all of this. After all nothing like this happened to the USA during Bush's two wars of imperialistic terrorism. In fact part of the UN (though not a majority, I understand) endorsed his wars even though the traitor clearly lied and engaged in these wars to create profits for his puppet masters in the military industrial complex. So I say take a consistent position - the world looked the other way during those two wars, it needs to look the other way now just to be consistent in the application of principle.

You’ve never heard of a dynamic model have you?

[Farfromgeneva]

Economist - 2/20/22

ANYWHERE YOU turn in Moscow, it's easy to find members of the Russian elite who wonder why the West thinks that war in Ukraine is the Kremlin’s preferred course of action. Even if the Russian army managed to force Kyiv into a swift and humiliating defeat without too many casualties, the damage to Russia’s national interests would surely outweigh any potential military gains.

The problem is that the same logic was just as true eight years ago when the fateful decisions were made to annex Crimea and to stir conflict in Ukraine’s Donbas region. The fact that Russia has been able to endure the international fallout for all these years helps to explain why the region finds itself again on the brink of war.

When it comes to Ukraine, people in Moscow and the West can be forgiven for assuming that the Kremlin’s policy is informed by a dispassionate strategy derived from endless hours of interagency debate and the weighing of pros and cons. What actually drives the Kremlin are the tough ideas and interests of a small group of longtime lieutenants to President Vladimir Putin, as well as those of the Russian leader himself. Emboldened by perceptions of the West’s terminal decline, no one in this group loses much sleep about the prospect of an open-ended confrontation with America and Europe. In fact, the core members of this group would all be among the main beneficiaries of a deeper schism.

Consider Mr Putin’s war cabinet, which is the locus of most decision-making. It consists of Nikolai Patrushev, the head of the Security Council; Alexander Bortnikov, the head of the FSB (the main successor agency of the KGB intelligence service); Sergei Naryshkin, the head of Russian Foreign Intelligence Service; and Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu. Their average age is 68 years old and they have a lot in common. The collapse of the Soviet Union, which Mr Putin famously described as the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of the 20th century, was the defining episode of their adult lives. Four out of five have a KGB background, with three, including the president himself, coming from the ranks of counterintelligence. It is these hardened men, not polished diplomats like Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, who run the country’s foreign policy.

In recent years members of this group have become very vocal. Messrs Patrushev and Naryshkin frequently give lengthy interviews articulating their views on global developments and Russia’s international role. According to them, the American-led order is in deep crisis thanks to the failure of Western democracy and internal conflicts spurred by the promotion of tolerance, multiculturalism and respect for the rights of minorities. A new multipolar order is taking shape that reflects an unstoppable shift in power to authoritarian regimes that support traditional values. A feisty, resurgent Russia is a pioneering force behind the arrival of this new order, along with a rising China. Given the state of affairs in Western countries, the pair contend, it's only natural that they seek to contain Russia and to install pro-Western regimes in former Soviet republics. The West’s ultimate goal of a colour revolution in Russia itself would lead to the country’s conclusive collapse.

Washington sees unfinished business in Russia’s persistence and success, according to Mr Putin’s entourage. As America’s power wanes, its methods are becoming more aggressive. This is why the West cannot be trusted. The best way to ensure the safety of Russia’s existing political regime and to advance its national interests is to keep America off balance.

Seen this way, Ukraine is the central battleground of the struggle. The stakes could not be higher. Should Moscow allow that country to be fully absorbed into a western sphere of influence, Russia’s endurance as a great power will itself be under threat. On a personal level, the world view of the hard men is an odd amalgam of Soviet nostalgia, great-power chauvinism and the trappings of the Russian Orthodox faith. The fact that the new elite in Kyiv glorifies the Ukrainian nationalists of the 20th century and thumb their noses at Moscow is a huge personal affront.

Why then are the people around Putin not scared about possible fallout from a new round of far-reaching economic sanctions? In their eyes, the sanctions that the West imposed to punish Russia for the annexation of Crimea and the war in Donbas were intended largely to check Russia’s rise. America and its allies would have found a way to introduce them one way or another, they were just looking for an excuse. Since 2014 such views have solidified. Messrs Patrushev, Bortnikov and Naryshkin all find themselves on the US Treasury’s blacklist already, along with many other members of Mr Putin’s inner circle. There is no way back for them to the West’s creature comforts. They are destined to end their lives in Fortress Russia, with their assets and their relatives alongside them.

As for sanctions by sector, including those that President Joe Biden’s team plans to impose should Russia invade Ukraine, these may end up largely strengthening the hard men’s grip on the national economy. Import substitution efforts have generated large flows of budget funds that are controlled by the coterie and their proxies, including through Rostec. The massive state conglomerate is run by a friend of Mr Putin’s from his KGB days in East Germany, Sergey Chemezov. In a similar vein, a ban on food imports from countries that have sanctioned Russia has led to spectacular growth in Russian agribusiness. The sector is overseen by Mr Patrushev’s elder son Dmitry, who is Mr Putin’s agriculture minister.

Similarly much-touted financial sanctions have led to a bigger role for state-owned banks which, unsurprisingly enough, are also filled with KGB veterans. If anything, further sanctions wouldn’t just fail to hurt Mr Putin’s war cabinet, they would secure its members' place as the top beneficiaries of Russia’s deepening economic autarky. The same logic is true of domestic politics: as the country descends into a near-permanent state of siege, the security services will be the most important pillar of the regime. That further cements the hard men’s grip on the country.

After two years of covid-induced self-isolation for Kremlin bosses, there is a clear tendency toward tunnel vision and a dearth of checks and balances. Russia’s interests are increasingly becoming conflated with the personal interests of the people at the very top of the system.

Alexander Gabuev is a senior fellow and chair of the Russia in the Asia-Pacific Programme at the Carnegie Moscow Centre.

That doesn’t help them it pushes them further into the real estate of sub Saharan Africa.

[Farfromgeneva]

I’m sick and tired

Explains some things

[Farfromgeneva]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

Trump "kept" Putin from invading because Putin knew that in a second term he could get something potentially much greater - the dissolution of NATO. Who needs Ukraine then - Russia could start to muscle their way into all sorts of neighbors then...

If Trump was in office, he wouldn’t lend any support for Ukraine because Zelensky didn’t do him a favor and announce that Joe
and Hunter were being investigated….he is petty that way…..always has been…..anyone want to deny it?

He’d be calling Putin to ask for an investment to build Trump Internationl
Kiev under the Russian flag .

[cradleandshoot]

Disgusting.

Joe lying that Putin doesn’t want Joe elected because JoeTard can handle Putin.


https://mobile.twitter.com/joebiden/sta ... 7298564096


Joe knew Trump was better at keeping peace and was more competent and quicker but he lied to the American people and now we could be entering WW3.

Trump "kept" Putin from invading because Putin knew that in a second term he could get something potentially much greater - the dissolution of NATO. Who needs Ukraine then - Russia could start to muscle their way into all sorts of neighbors then...

If Trump was in office, he wouldn’t lend any support for Ukraine because Zelensky didn’t do him a favor and announce that Joe
and Hunter were being investigated….he is petty that way…..always has been…..anyone want to deny it?

He’d be calling Putin to ask for an investment to build Trump Internationl
Kiev under the Russian flag .

Gotta have a country club or 2 included in the mix as well. The Dunes at Kiev has a nice ring.