THE 2019 Hopkins Lacrosse Fallout Shelter (44, we want more!)

[Henpecked]

I watched the UD Hopkins game and noticed that the refs missed a few calls both ways yesterday. But there were a couple of head scratchers that went Hopkins way – the Haynes love tap on the arm pad and the slash/lift to Kitchen’s head (his had to re-adjust his helmet which almost fell off) that went uncalled right in front of two refs late in the game when the Hens were up by 2.

I don’t think you can underestimate the collective impact on refs when a coach is bitching from the opening whistle till the clock finally reads 0:00. It seems to work for Petro, Tierney and Corrigan in lacrosse the same way it works for Coach K and Jay Wright in college hoops.

But there is something unbelievably undignified about that behavior. Having my head coach constantly begging for calls takes away from the enjoyment of actually winning. I knew a coach like that and he made it miserable for everyone at the game including the parents and kids. But I sincerely believe that these guys see it as an advantage to “work the refs” for 60 minutes, nothing you can do about that.

[Hawkeye]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? G

I'm very saddened by this news, too. The UVA game is always a good one. Getting Navy back on the schedule is a nice consolation prize, though. I'm hoping that if UVA/Hopkins is indeed put on hiatus that it's only a two year break, and they're back on the schedule for 2022.

On that topic, what would everyone's ideal schedule for Hopkins look like? I'd go these 12 annually:
5 Big Ten games
Loyola
Navy
North Carolina
Princeton
Syracuse
Towson
Virginia

Then rotate the last spot (or 2, if you wanted 14 games) between local teams. Delaware, UMBC, MSM, etc.

[seacoaster]

I watched the UD Hopkins game and noticed that the refs missed a few calls both ways yesterday. But there were a couple of head scratchers that went Hopkins way – the Haynes love tap on the arm pad and the slash/lift to Kitchen’s head (his had to re-adjust his helmet which almost fell off) that went uncalled right in front of two refs late in the game when the Hens were up by 2.

I don’t think you can underestimate the collective impact on refs when a coach is bitching from the opening whistle till the clock finally reads 0:00. It seems to work for Petro, Tierney and Corrigan in lacrosse the same way it works for Coach K and Jay Wright in college hoops.

But there is something unbelievably undignified about that behavior. Having my head coach constantly begging for calls takes away from the enjoyment of actually winning. I knew a coach like that and he made it miserable for everyone at the game including the parents and kids. But I sincerely believe that these guys see it as an advantage to “work the refs” for 60 minutes, nothing you can do about that.

Yep; saw this in real time and had the same reaction.

[DocBarrister]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? G

I'm very saddened by this news, too. The UVA game is always a good one. Getting Navy back on the schedule is a nice consolation prize, though. I'm hoping that if UVA/Hopkins is indeed put on hiatus that it's only a two year break, and they're back on the schedule for 2022.

On that topic, what would everyone's ideal schedule for Hopkins look like? I'd go these 12 annually:
5 Big Ten games
Loyola
Navy
North Carolina
Princeton
Syracuse
Towson
Virginia

Then rotate the last spot (or 2, if you wanted 14 games) between local teams. Delaware, UMBC, MSM, etc.

My ideal schedule:

1. Maryland
2. Michigan
3. Rutgers
4. Ohio State
5. Penn State
6. Syracuse
7. Virginia
8. Notre Dame or North Carolina or Duke
9. Navy
10. Army or Air Force
11. Princeton
12. Harvard (!), Yale, Cornell, Dartmouth, Brown, or Penn
13. Loyola or Towson or UMBC

DocBarrister

[51percentcorn]

No doubt I am a Hopkins fan but a) the refs missed several calls in favor of Delaware - e.g. how did Prouty fall on Delaware's first goal? call me crazy but I think he was tripped
b) the worst call FOR Hopkins was the slash on #3 in the 3rd quarter
The two fouls in the 4th were legit - the ref gave Grant all the leeway in the world but as Boyle pointed out you hit someone out of control 4 times in the back it is probably going to get a call and the cross check on Marr was on his head

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? G

I'm very saddened by this news, too. The UVA game is always a good one. Getting Navy back on the schedule is a nice consolation prize, though. I'm hoping that if UVA/Hopkins is indeed put on hiatus that it's only a two year break, and they're back on the schedule for 2022.

On that topic, what would everyone's ideal schedule for Hopkins look like? I'd go these 12 annually:
5 Big Ten games
Loyola
Navy
North Carolina
Princeton
Syracuse
Towson
Virginia

Then rotate the last spot (or 2, if you wanted 14 games) between local teams. Delaware, UMBC, MSM, etc.

I’d rather drop Syracuse than Virginia.

Seriously, the UVa rivalry goes further back.

Syracuse has been more of a 1980s onward thing.

Traveling TO Syracuse SUCKS. It’s an overnight trip. A long bus trip in the winter to the armpit of a gray frozen industrial town.

Keep UVa and murderer’s row.

Drop Syracuse.

[HowieT3]

Regarding the game:
In the 2nd half, our shooting went cold and their goalie was hot - tough combination. We had plenty of opportunities, even against their zone.

Regarding Hopkins academics vs. Ivies:
I'd guess that Hopkins is generally (not necessarily for lax players) a tougher academic experience given that most everyone is a STEM major. Back when I went, it seems that almost everyone (non-laxer) was either science (pre-med) or engineering. Perhaps that has changed over the decades...

Nope. Still true. AMOF, there is a separate acceptance process to get into the JHU Biomedical Engineering program and not "just another option" within the Engineering School. The major difference between the JHU most of you remember and the present JHU is that it's now ~52% female students.

As a JHU Class of 2020 Dad, your current second-hand experiences might be more relevant than any of our hazy recollections. Best wishes to you and (IIRC from LP) your daughter (especially your daughter and not you on Saturday). Have you had your .sig for three years already?

It's my son. And, yes, I've used that .sig block since we paid "the deposit" in 2016. I'm perfectly willing to wear the most expensive hat and t-shirt I own on any weekend except two. A certain weekend in March (which apparently is going away) and Memorial Day weekend.

[HopFan16]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? Given only 5 ACC schools play and 6 BIG - it can't be conference scheduling getting in the way? That would be a shame. I was there in person for the 4 most impactful games they ever played in the NCAA era - the 1972 title game played at then Byrd Stadium where Pete Eldgredge/Tom Duquette led Cavaliers edged Hopkins with Billy Nolan and Jack Thomas 13-12. Then in 1980 I turned away in horror as Mike Caravana lined up an 8 yard bullet to win it all that nobody could save but somehow Piggy did and Hopkins escaped with a 9-8 Double OT national title. Then in 2003 we all know what Tillman Johnson did in the mud of M&T stadium and then the insanity of the 2005 NCAA semi-final. 4 unforgettable games. I know the Hopkins - Navy series goes back even further but I will miss this more if it cannot be figured out.

More recent history between the two teams has been excellent as well:

2018: 15-13 Hop
2017: 18-17 Hop in OT
2016: 13-12 UVA in OT
2015: 16-15 UVA (Hop got payback—to say the least—in the NCAA tournament)
2014: 11-10 UVA in OT (again Hop got payback in the NCAAs)
2013: 15-8 Hop
2012: 12-11 Hop in OT (#1 vs. #2)
2011: 12-11 Hop
2010: 15-6 UVA
2009: 16-15 UVA

Excluding playoff games, Hop and UVA have gone 5-5 against one another in the last 10 regular season contests. (7-5 in Hop's favor if you count playoffs). 7 of those have been 1-goal games—3 of them decided in overtime. Only 2 games have been greater than 2-goal margins. An extremely intense, competitive, and evenly matched series in the last decade. If recent games were boring or heavily one-sided, I might not feel so strongly if the game was taken off the schedule, but it would be a total travesty to get rid of it NOW after it's been one of the best games of the season in all of D1 lacrosse for several years running.

And only a year after Doyle Smith's passing, too. He deserves better than this. Both teams should do everything possible to keep the rivalry alive. I still think Hopkins-Syracuse is our most important non-conference game, but other than that I'd probably pick the UVA game over all others, including UNC, Princeton, Loyola, Towson, and Navy. (Speaking only for myself here—but I've already kind of gotten used to not playing Navy anymore. Obviously I'd love for them to be back on the schedule but if it's a choice between Navy and UVA I'd prefer the latter.) I'm worried that some of this has to do with the relatively new regime at UVA, who has no ties to this rivalry and very little history with it. Probably not as important to them as it is to the current Hopkins staff and the old Virginia one.

[HowieT3]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? G

I'm very saddened by this news, too. The UVA game is always a good one. Getting Navy back on the schedule is a nice consolation prize, though. I'm hoping that if UVA/Hopkins is indeed put on hiatus that it's only a two year break, and they're back on the schedule for 2022.

On that topic, what would everyone's ideal schedule for Hopkins look like? I'd go these 12 annually:
5 Big Ten games
Loyola
Navy
North Carolina
Princeton
Syracuse
Towson
Virginia

Then rotate the last spot (or 2, if you wanted 14 games) between local teams. Delaware, UMBC, MSM, etc.

I’d rather drop Syracuse than Virginia.

Seriously, the UVa rivalry goes further back.

Syracuse has been more of a 1980s onward thing.

Traveling TO Syracuse SUCKS. It’s an overnight trip. A long bus trip in the winter to the armpit of a gray frozen industrial town.

Keep UVa and murderer’s row.

Drop Syracuse.

We have played every year since 1948 when the USILA had us both in the "Mideast Division" along with Army, Navy, UMd, and Rutgers.

[BlueJaySince1947]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? G

I'm very saddened by this news, too. The UVA game is always a good one. Getting Navy back on the schedule is a nice consolation prize, though. I'm hoping that if UVA/Hopkins is indeed put on hiatus that it's only a two year break, and they're back on the schedule for 2022.

On that topic, what would everyone's ideal schedule for Hopkins look like? I'd go these 12 annually:
5 Big Ten games
Loyola
Navy
North Carolina
Princeton
Syracuse
Towson
Virginia

Then rotate the last spot (or 2, if you wanted 14 games) between local teams. Delaware, UMBC, MSM, etc.

I’d rather drop Syracuse than Virginia.

Seriously, the UVa rivalry goes further back.

Syracuse has been more of a 1980s onward thing.

Traveling TO Syracuse SUCKS. It’s an overnight trip. A long bus trip in the winter to the armpit of a gray frozen industrial town.

Keep UVa and murderer’s row.

Drop Syracuse.

To us oldetimers Syracuse is still a new kid on the block...!

[viper]

I think the more interesting challenge for Hopkins men's lax recruiting has more to do with the female quotient/social scene, along with the attractions of big-time sports. But you play the hand you're dealt.

It is hard to get kicked out of almost any school. Hopkins has plenty of gut majors and classes out there. It had the 25 years ago, it has them now. One only has to know where to look. And, I am sure upper class players guide the lower class guys. Hopkins lax players all seem to have good jobs when they get out of Hopkins. Not saying everyone is successful but that is true at any school. Academic issues and other reasons for kids not remaining at schools happens to all of the programs - see Garnsey at ND this spring. We just seem to think it happens more at Hopkins because we are more in tune with that program. DI is certainly at a different level but if the other athletes at Hopkins seem to some how make it through school (at Margaff's funeral it seemed like every other guy was a doctor), the lax guys can too.

As for female quotient at Hopkins, there are now more women at Hopkins than men (I think it flipped a few years ago). But, even 20 years ago, lax guys had a breadth of options that many of your average Hopkins bros didn't. If you are a Lax player it is still a target rich environment given the proximity Loyola, Towson, Goucher, Stevenson a/k/a Villa Julie and good ole CONDOM. They are still young men and I'm sure they no were to go looking to meet girls.

You make good points steel_hop, but it's tough to compare results of other Hopkins athletes to the lacrosse players as there is a huge difference in the restrictions placed on D3 programs versus D1 with regard to the time commitments of the athletes.

Not really. When I was there in the 90s for football, in-season (when you can the minute you walk into the building until walk out) you were looking at 22-35 hours depending on whether it was an away game. Out of season, it was probably a comparable amount 10-15 hours. You can't really slack off on lifting, running and training. You are either doing it or your not. Maybe there was a slightly more time involved but not much given the number of doctors Hopkins other athletic programs pumped out v. the lax program. Let's be honest, no one, outside of Paul Rabil, makes a living playing lacrosse after Hopkins.

There are stricter time limitations on D3 athletes than their are on D1 athletes. For example, out of season, D3 teams can only meet for official workouts/practices on 16 days and no more than 4 in a week. D1 is only limited to by hours per week (8-12 I can't remember which) and have no limit on the number of days (subject to other things like time before finals, etc). What athletes choose to do unofficially on their own or with teammates is another story of course, but that is up to the athlete. Having two sons, one D1 affiliated and one heading to D3, there is definitely a difference in the commitment level.

[steel_hop]

Wow - no Hopkins-UVA anymore - what brought that on? Given only 5 ACC schools play and 6 BIG - it can't be conference scheduling getting in the way? That would be a shame. I was there in person for the 4 most impactful games they ever played in the NCAA era - the 1972 title game played at then Byrd Stadium where Pete Eldgredge/Tom Duquette led Cavaliers edged Hopkins with Billy Nolan and Jack Thomas 13-12. Then in 1980 I turned away in horror as Mike Caravana lined up an 8 yard bullet to win it all that nobody could save but somehow Piggy did and Hopkins escaped with a 9-8 Double OT national title. Then in 2003 we all know what Tillman Johnson did in the mud of M&T stadium and then the insanity of the 2005 NCAA semi-final. 4 unforgettable games. I know the Hopkins - Navy series goes back even further but I will miss this more if it cannot be figured out.

Man, it is like I am Kreskin (I think that is the spelling). I wish LP was still around. I specifically stated when Hopkins joined the B1G that one at some point Hopkins was going to drop one of the storied rivalries (nothing against Navy but when they have 2-3 wins in 45 match-ups that isn't a rivalry). Most said I that was impossible that Hopkins would always play SU, UVA, etc. Gee...the B!G deal gets worse and worse. Need another patsy to fill the win column because...well, I'll let you fill in the rest.

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

They’re giving out rings now for B1G Championships.

[Homer]

Man, it is like I am Kreskin (I think that is the spelling). I wish LP was still around. I specifically stated when Hopkins joined the B1G that one at some point Hopkins was going to drop one of the storied rivalries (nothing against Navy but when they have 2-3 wins in 45 match-ups that isn't a rivalry). Most said I that was impossible that Hopkins would always play SU, UVA, etc. Gee...the B!G deal gets worse and worse. Need another patsy to fill the win column because...well, I'll let you fill in the rest.

We've disagreed about the Big Ten from the start: I thought then and think now it was a necessary and desirable move with few if any likely downsides. If the Hopkins-Virginia series does end up being suspended/discontinued, and if it turns out that was a direct and unavoidable result of Hopkins' conference commitments, then I will have been badly wrong about at least part of that.

That said, for the moment I'm reserving judgment on the Amazing Steelhop's feat of prognostication. I'm not sure we know enough yet about what's going on to say whether the conference schedule is actually driving this or is just a convenient scapegoat for a decision being made for other reasons. It's not even clear to me from what's been reported whether this is more a case of Hopkins dropping Virginia or Virginia dropping Hopkins.

If this really is just about Petro wanting Navy back on the schedule and the traditional UVA weekend being Navy's only open date -- well, OK, the Big Ten office isn't telling Petro to make that call. We've been in the conference for 5 years playing this series on the same weekend, and I don't know yet why that status quo couldn't have continued unless one of the sides didn't want it to.

(Whatever's going on, I don't think it can just be a straight swap of Navy for Virginia on the calendar. Navy's PL bye the next two years is set for 3/14, i.e., the weekend before when Hopkins-UVA's been played the past decade or so. Seems like there must be more moving parts to this, possibly a different rivalry needing to move to 3/21 or adding another opponent not reported yet... I'm idly curious if with Marr's kid graduating Petro is pushing to get Albany back on the schedule.)

[wgdsr]

it's garbage, homer. whoever's pulling the strings on this is doing it in their own self-interest.

somebody posted somewhere the game's been played every year since like 1948. that's post-war. garbage.

[OCanada]

Tgerexarexa lot of off field why Hopkins would take Navy in lieu of VA. That said VA might have made the change

[steel_hop]

Tgerexarexa lot of off field why Hopkins would take Navy in lieu of VA. That said VA might have made the change

If this happened, this was almost assuredly a Hopkins decision. UVA hasn't changed conferences that locks up 5 weekends in April. So when Petro wanted to get Navy back on the schedule (with thier schedule restrictions) someone of the UNC/SU/UVA bunch has to go. TBH it shouldn't be hard to play Navy and UVA p
L9pand Loyola and Towson every year but when you have to kowtow a conference it does make it more difficult. But, then I think this switch was done for other reasons like weakening the sched⁰ule.

[HopFan16]

It's time to use some basic logic...this game has been a staple of both teams' scheduled for decades. It's been a marquee game for Hopkins every year of Petro's tenure here. Suddenly there's a new staff at Virginia that has no ties to this rivalry—and two years later it's being taken off the schedule. Maybe joining a conference complicates things and perhaps Petro made a promise to Navy that they'd do whatever it took to get them back on the schedule BUT if you think this is a one-sided decision in any way you're very likely way off the mark. My guess is Petro did approach Tiffany about perhaps working to find a different date for the game to accommodate Navy returning to the schedule, but that Tiffany probably didn't care enough to do so in good faith. If that's the case, then which team is really the one that doesn't want to play this game? These things take two to tango.

The idea that this is being done to weaken the schedule is so laughable it's almost beyond parody.

[OCanada]

I don’t know the reason ... yet ... but as I said there are substantial off field reasons to have Navy on the schedule.

As an aside the new Navy defensive FB coaches have been staying accross the road while on campus housing is being prepared. Like them a lot

[WOMBAT, Mod Emeritus]

It's time to use some basic logic...this game has been a staple of both teams' scheduled for decades. It's been a marquee game for Hopkins every year of Petro's tenure here. Suddenly there's a new staff at Virginia that has no ties to this rivalry—and two years later it's being taken off the schedule. Maybe joining a conference complicates things and perhaps Petro made a promise to Navy that they'd do whatever it took to get them back on the schedule BUT if you think this is a one-sided decision in any way you're very likely way off the mark. My guess is Petro did approach Tiffany about perhaps working to find a different date for the game to accommodate Navy returning to the schedule, but that Tiffany probably didn't care enough to do so in good faith. If that's the case, then which team is really the one that doesn't want to play this game? These things take two to tango.

The idea that this is being done to weaken the schedule is so laughable it's almost beyond parody.

Beyond parity too.