All Things Russia & Ukraine

[Farfromgeneva]

Amazing bravery of Zelensky, who is likely to be killed soon.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 33252?s=21

Compare this guys bravery with the bottomless weakness of Justin Trudeau. Like two different species.

I truly despise Trudeau. As should you.

Nobody wants to talk about Trudeau-especially on a Russia/Ukraine theres when there’s a war. Cut the s**t-its either pathetic and/or intentionally subversive and selfish. Take your pick.

[Farfromgeneva]

Always the partisan.

Learn something, pal: Professor Sutton was British and did not belong to either party. Neither do I.

Used as an adjective partisan means something different than what you are basing your assault there on. Doesn’t need to be a party at all. Even in fact when used as a noun it’s not a priori/condition precedent.

adjective
prejudiced in favor of a particular cause.
"newspapers have become increasingly partisan"

[Farfromgeneva]

I know you think you are always correct but can you distinguish between war mongerers and people who see it as a necessary evil?

Give specific examples of who you mean.

Donald Rumsfeld vs Obama (who ran drone operations and would do the same as Biden in this circumstance we are presented with now)

Rumsfeld - warmonger supreme ~ we all know his true motivation$:



http://www.banderasnews.com/0611/images/rumsein.jpg



Obama wanted to end the war but was called "surrender monkey" by those who profited from war but refused to fight in it:


https://angrywhitebitch.files.wordpress ... monkey.jpg



Had I been Obama I would have given those of you who love war an open invitation to enlist and to actually fight the war, Meantime we would withdraw all other troops. This way those of you who love fighting can back up your ideas with actions.

... sorry Obama doesn't get a pass because some people said mean things about him. He had exactly the same problem that Trump had. He didn't have the balls to go up against the generals when push came to shove, as it always does. Biden is the only one who has show any balls in that regard.

Like MD and others, I do not see the current situation in the same light as Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanastan, Grenade, etc.

... Vietnam was a Civil War, we had no business there, from day 1.
... Iraq 2 was clearly sold on false pretense and was in the end a Civil War, no reason to be there.
... Afghanastan had a reasonable causa belli, but was mission creeped to death by the usual suspects. Our job was done after clearing out the terrorists and exacting a single pound of flesh from the Taliban and they vacated. Should have been out after 3-6 months max. We have no business nation building in a culture we don't understand and where we are ultimately unwelcome and partnered with a corrupt government and an army that would not fight.
... Ukraine is a young democratic country with a culture we do understand being bullied by a fascist who if he gets away with it we will have to face again, somewhere, sometime. We cannot coexist with this character as a democracy. We will ultimately be forced to fight him or surrender to him. They have shown a willingness to fight for themselves (a prerequisite in my book). We also are fortunate in that we do have a commander in chief that is not going to get caught up in mission creep. He knows how to say no to the generals and partners.

This is a review of the various situations we have been in. I am not making an argument for going to war. I am making an argument that Ukraine deserves a chance and is not an obviously bad wagon to hitch too. Their national interest is the same as OUR NATIONAL INTEREST. I am willing to cut the administration a break, in supporting Ukraine so long as these things remain true, recognizing we may be drawn in to the fight.

Without going into detailed aspects this is generally where I fall.

[PizzaSnake]

Amazing bravery of Zelensky, who is likely to be killed soon.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 33252?s=21

Compare this guys bravery with the bottomless weakness of Justin Trudeau. Like two different species.

I truly despise Trudeau. As should you.

Nobody wants to talk about Trudeau-especially on a Russia/Ukraine theres when there’s a war. Cut the s**t-its either pathetic and/or intentionally subversive and selfish. Take your pick.

He selling. Don't know for whom and why, but he's selling.

[ardilla secreta]

Amazing bravery of Zelensky, who is likely to be killed soon.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 33252?s=21

Compare this guys bravery with the bottomless weakness of Justin Trudeau. Like two different species.

I truly despise Trudeau. As should you.

Nobody wants to talk about Trudeau-especially on a Russia/Ukraine theres when there’s a war. Cut the s**t-its either pathetic and/or intentionally subversive and selfish. Take your pick.

He selling. Don't know for whom and why, but he's selling.

He’s selling for attention and winning big.

[Peter Brown]

Amazing bravery of Zelensky, who is likely to be killed soon.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 33252?s=21

Compare this guys bravery with the bottomless weakness of Justin Trudeau. Like two different species.

I truly despise Trudeau. As should you.

Nobody wants to talk about Trudeau-especially on a Russia/Ukraine theres when there’s a war. Cut the s**t-its either pathetic and/or intentionally subversive and selfish. Take your pick.

He selling. Don't know for whom and why, but he's selling.

He’s selling for attention and winning big.

Lauding Zelensky isn’t relevant?! Or did you miss that part?

[old salt]

Neutrality was never actually an option (for us to dictate), the Ukrainians made that call, built it into their Constitution.

What is the mechanism ? Can Zellensky make that call or does it require approval by their legislature ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... lity-video

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-02-25/

[a fan]

Russia is a weak economy. Taking Ukraine makes it much stronger and that’s why it happened.

Ukraine has the worst economy in the region. What are you talking about ?

And now business in both countries have come to a complete halt. No sanctions needed for that.

What’s he gonna do? Sell a few million dollars of stolen Ukrainian barley?

[a fan]

China now appears to be on board.

First big problem arrives for Putin…

[old salt]

Neutrality was never actually an option (for us to dictate), the Ukrainians made that call, built it into their Constitution.

What is the mechanism ? Can Zellensky make that call or does it require approval by their legislature ?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... lity-video

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/uk ... 022-02-25/

Found my answer. Looks like neutrality has to be declared by the Rada (parliament).
https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-parliam ... 58725.html

[MDlaxfan76]

Always the partisan.

Learn something, pal: Professor Sutton was British and did not belong to either party. Neither do I.

I didn't miss the "Republican" shot, pal.

Too much partisan vitriol gets in the way, IMO.

The point is that Putin's tactics are Hitlerian. And that's a very fair assessment.

[old salt]

Unprecedented deployment of NATO Response Force (NRF)
(nice dramatic flair by the SecGen)
The process is halting & frustrating but the result is impressive.

https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022 ... ce/362459/

NATO Deploys Response Forces; Warns Russia ‘We Will Defend Every Inch’ of Alliance

Rare emergency summit produces unprecedented order to activate a wide range of ready capabilities.

NATO leaders agreed on Friday to immediately deploy elements of the alliance’s emergency military forces, adding troops and firepower to bolster defenses along its Eastern front.

The unprecedented deployment is meant to deter Russia—whose military is currently invading Ukraine—from attacking NATO members and to prepare alliance forces to respond quickly should an attack occur.

“We are deploying elements of the NATO Response Force on land, at sea, and in the air,” said NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, at alliance headquarters in Brussels, immediately following the summit. NATO leaders had agreed to activate the force on Thursday.

Stoltenberg said the alliance has never before collectively deployed such a force.

“We have over 100 jets at high alert operating in over 30 different locations. And over 120 ships from the High North to the Mediterranean, including three carrier strike groups,” he said. “There must be no space for miscalculation or misunderstanding. We will do whatever it takes to defend every ally, and every inch of NATO territory.”

NATO officials provided no further details about the newly added capabilities.

“We have met today to discuss the gravest threat to Euro-Atlantic security in decades,” NATO leaders said in a joint NATO statement. “We condemn in the strongest possible terms Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, enabled by Belarus. We call on Russia to immediately cease its military assault, to withdraw all its forces from Ukraine and to turn back from the path of aggression it has chosen.”

“The world will hold Russia and Belarus accountable for their actions: Russia as the aggressor, Belarus as the enabler,” Stoltenberg said. “President Putin’s decision to pursue his aggression against Ukraine is a terrible strategic mistake for which Russia will pay a severe price for years to come.”

Alliance members had already sent extra forces to NATO’s easternmost countries in the weeks before the full-scale Russian invasion that began on Wednesday. The United States has tapped roughly 14,000 additional troops to respond to Russia’s buildup: on Thursday, deployment orders were given to the latest 7,000 from Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, and Fort Stewart, in Georgia. Those troops had not left the United States by noon on Friday, Eastern Time, a senior defense official told reporters at the Pentagon.

“These are also very much European troops,” Stoltenberg said, noting that France has the lead of the Very High Readiness Joint Task Force, a component of the NRF that stands ready to deploy within 48 to 72 hours.

“We are now employing elements of the NATO Response Force,” U.S. Air Force Gen. Tod Wolters, NATO supreme allied commander, said in a statement. “This is an historic moment and the very first time the Alliance has employed these high readiness forces in a deterrence and defense role.” Wolters said the measure will “shield and protect the one billion citizens we swore to protect.”

At Friday’s summit, NATO heads of state and government discussed what weapons and equipment they were sharing or willing to share as the alliance built up its deterrence force. Stoltenberg said the gear includes air defense systems, weapons that critics have argued Ukraine badly needed to clear the skies of Russian aircraft and missiles. The group collectively committed to continue to supply Ukrainian forces to fight back the Russian attack.

Officials from the U.S. and other member countries continued to say they will not send troops to face Russian fighters directly. “We admire the courage and tenacity of the Ukrainian Armed Forces and citizens in defending their country,” Wolters said in his statement.

Yet the potential for direct NATO-Russia conflict grew in the past 24 hours. Military leaders have warned that Russia could provoke or unintentionally spark a confrontation with NATO member forces already on high alert. Russia’s foreign ministry warned of “serious military and political repercussions” on Friday after Finland’s president suggested his country may reconsider joining NATO.

Wolters “is very focused on the need to deconflict” with Russian military operations, “to make sure that we don't have incidents—accidents—that can spiral and get out of control and create a very dangerous situation,” Stoltenberg said.

NATO leaders have frequently restated their Article V commitment to consider an attack on one member as an attack on all. “We are clear on this distinction because it is important to make sure that we don't have an even bigger crisis in Europe” said the secretary general.

“This goes far beyond Ukraine. This is about how Russia is actually challenging and contesting our core values for security, and demanding that NATO should withdraw all forces and infrastructure from almost half of our members.”

Stoltenberg also called for additional support for non-NATO countries Georgia, Moldova, and Bosnia-Herzegovina. “There’s no security in Europe without a strong transatlantic bond.”

Russian leader Vladimir Putin, who had massed 190,000 Russian troops along the Ukraine’s border and within Belarus, has sent about 50,000 of them into Ukraine since Wednesday. On Friday, an amphibious force began landing troops “to the west of Mariupol” on the Azov coastline, the official said. Officials expect more to come. U.S. officials believe Russia’s assaulters met more Ukrainian resistance than they expected, but also Russia has appeared to hold back, by not targeting Ukraine’s command-and-control networks, nor overwhelming the country with land forces. Putin’s stated goal is to take Kyiv and replace the Ukrainian government.

“We call on Russia to stop this senseless war, immediately cease its assaults, withdraw all its forces from Ukraine, and turn back to the path of dialogue and turn away from aggression,” said Stoltenberg.

“The Russian people must know the Kremlin’s war on Ukraine will not make Russia more secure. It will not make Russia more respected in the world. It will not lead to a better future for your children.”

At a press conference after the NATO summit, Stoltenberg said that “Russia has walked away” from the NATO-Russia Founding Act—officially, the Founding Act on Mutual Relations, Cooperation and Security—in which Moscow agreed to respect territorial boundaries. Putin has “constantly violated” the agreement since invading Crimea in 2014, he said.

“So what we see is Russia shall show no respect for the NATO-Russia Founding Act. If you have a Founding Act between two partners, NATO and Russia, and one partner does not respect that agreement, the agreement doesn't work,” he said.

[MDlaxfan76]

Amazing bravery of Zelensky, who is likely to be killed soon.

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 33252?s=21

Compare this guys bravery with the bottomless weakness of Justin Trudeau. Like two different species.

I truly despise Trudeau. As should you.

Nobody wants to talk about Trudeau-especially on a Russia/Ukraine theres when there’s a war. Cut the s**t-its either pathetic and/or intentionally subversive and selfish. Take your pick.

He selling. Don't know for whom and why, but he's selling.

He’s selling for attention and winning big.

Lauding Zelensky isn’t relevant?! Or did you miss that part?

You got the response you wanted by trolling.

People have no patience with this sh-t from you.

[DocBarrister]

Thirteen Ukrainian soldiers sent a message to old salt (and Russia and Putin) before perishing in the defense of a Ukrainian island. They were later designated “Heroes of Ukraine” by President Zelensky.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national ... p-ukraine/

DocBarrister

Edit: new link

[old salt]

A "military expert" on FNC said Russia is negotiating with Israel to host talks with Ukraine reps on a declaration of neutrality.

[jhu72]

Now in the category of "you can't make this stuff up",

according to Newsweek:

The Taliban government of Afghanistan has called for peace between Russia and Ukraine and expressed concern over civilian casualties as Russian forces threatened the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv on Friday.

[old salt]

Thirteen Ukrainian soldiers sent a message to old salt (and Russia and Putin) before perishing in the defense of a Ukrainian island. They were later designated “Heroes of Ukraine” by President Zelensky.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/heck

DocBarrister

...& there will be hundreds, even thousands more, ...& it will not alter the inevitable outcome.

Wave the bloody shirt. Political talking points for naive fools.

[DocBarrister]

Thirteen Ukrainian soldiers sent a message to old salt (and Russia and Putin) before perishing in the defense of a Ukrainian island. They were later designated “Heroes of Ukraine” by President Zelensky.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/25/heck

DocBarrister

...& there will be hundreds, even thousands more, ...& it will not alter the inevitable outcome.

Wave the bloody shirt. Political talking points for fools.

Better yet, Putin can stop the invasion and withdraw.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

A "military expert" on FNC said Russia is negotiating with Israel to host talks with Ukraine reps on a declaration of neutrality.

... why Israel? Not surprised Putin is negotiating, he has had a real bad day.

[old salt]

BTW, if we're willing to provide various weaponry and training to Ukrainian insurgents, at what point do we go to drones?

If we were doing so right now, letting Ukrainians operate them, a heck of a lot of tanks could be destroyed.

Weapons carrying drones -- not a capability that can be provided quickly. Requires operator & maintainer training & experience.
They are still combat aircraft.