All Things Russia & Ukraine

[runrussellrun]

Biden gave Ukraine $1.5 billion in arms, months ago

I am sure there is lots going on behind the scenes you won't hear about until Biden does his biography (or Woodward does).

If that’s true, it appears as if the money ended up in Switzerland not Ukraine.

Poroshenko is out on the streets assembling ghost Kalyshnekov’s practically.

https://twitter.com/noraneus/status/149 ... 20128?s=21

I threw the WE charity scandal on the taats thread.........months ago. ....doesn't sell in the "but Trump" delusions

Do you own shotguns, or handguns, Pete?

[Peter Brown]

Biden gave Ukraine $1.5 billion in arms, months ago

I am sure there is lots going on behind the scenes you won't hear about until Biden does his biography (or Woodward does).

If that’s true, it appears as if the money ended up in Switzerland not Ukraine.

Poroshenko is out on the streets assembling ghost Kalyshnekov’s practically.

https://twitter.com/noraneus/status/149 ... 20128?s=21

I threw the WE charity scandal on the taats thread.........months ago. ....doesn't sell in the "but Trump" delusions

Do you own shotguns, or handguns, Pete?

Many.

And I know about the WE Charity scandal. Have many Canadian friends and they talk about it a lot. This guy is bad news. His actions last week IMO make him eligible for The Hague.

[jhu72]

No, Putin is in the driver's seat. He's calling the shots entirely as to whether they subjugate Ukraine by force.

He claims that Zelensky was not democratically elected and that he and his regime are controlled by Neo-Nazis and the US. And that Ukraine is not actually sovereign country, and by all rights is part of Russia.

didn't JHU72 just provide information that Biden is GIVING the Ukraine free guns? with no ask? none?

you tell us all the time, the folks with the money call the shots.....only, NOT...in this case ?

sorry I was imprecise. He sold them / allowed them to buy them.

[runrussellrun]

No, Putin is in the driver's seat. He's calling the shots entirely as to whether they subjugate Ukraine by force.

He claims that Zelensky was not democratically elected and that he and his regime are controlled by Neo-Nazis and the US. And that Ukraine is not actually sovereign country, and by all rights is part of Russia.

didn't JHU72 just provide information that Biden is GIVING the Ukraine free guns? with no ask? none?

you tell us all the time, the folks with the money call the shots.....only, NOT...in this case ?

sorry I was imprecise. He sold them / allowed them to buy them.

Who gets the check from Ukraine, US citizens...or.......

[jhu72]

China now appears to be on board.

Which many think means Putin’s already got Kiev and they’re swooping in to look good “brokering” a peace agreement where Russia installs a puppet regime.

,,, could be, but I kind of doubt it.

[jhu72]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

That too, needless to say.

Perhaps not "too late!" More chatter on news re talks (backed by Xi?) We need some cooler heads to prevail here.

Zelensky is asking for talks with Putin...stiff armed by Putin.

It's not "needless to say", it's the whole deal.
The "boo Biden" crap is absolutely wrong.

Not the time for partisan baloney.

Watched Ben Sasse this AM, shortly followed by Hillary Clinton.
Both excellent, clear eyed, tough minded.

My wife, who really dislikes Clinton said, "boy, I really like her...when she's not a candidate..."

Not a time for partisan politics.

It's not "boo Biden" and why I said "(years?)." The fact is, he IS in the driver seat or do you have a problem with that too?

No, Putin is in the driver's seat. He's calling the shots entirely as to whether they subjugate Ukraine by force.

He claims that Zelensky was not democratically elected and that he and his regime are controlled by Neo-Nazis and the US. And that Ukraine is not actually sovereign country, and by all rights is part of Russia.

We simply don't like subjugation by force of democratic country and are going to make to make it costly for Putin and Russia.

Neutrality was never actually an option (for us to dictate), the Ukrainians made that call, built it into their Constitution.

I'm generally fine with Biden's leadership, can critique later. I hope, and you should too, that Biden's leadership, and the Ukrainians, are successful in breaking Putin's and the oligarchs' will.

I think it won't happen over night.

... I think Zelinsky offered, he was pretty sure it would not be accepted.

[MDlaxfan76]

No, Putin is in the driver's seat. He's calling the shots entirely as to whether they subjugate Ukraine by force.

He claims that Zelensky was not democratically elected and that he and his regime are controlled by Neo-Nazis and the US. And that Ukraine is not actually sovereign country, and by all rights is part of Russia.

didn't JHU72 just provide information that Biden is GIVING the Ukraine free guns? with no ask? none?

you tell us all the time, the folks with the money call the shots.....only, NOT...in this case ?

no ask???

Zelensky has been "asking" constantly, including right now...Trump tried to hold him up on that, but that was reversed, and sure, we've been providing more and more...but they need more still...

Zelensky could have been asking Russia for guns, but the call had been made to align with the West not Russia...that decision was made by the Ukrainians...we obviously prefer democracy so welcomed that choice.

That's the reality.

Apologize....the "ask" would be on Bidens part. Joe Biden would be doing the asking. Give/gave....get......scenario. Biden GAVE the Ukraine killing weapons .....what is the USA GETTING....in return? Nothing? To quote joe, "come on man".

ahhh, the 'ask' is assumed; a free and democratic Ukraine, and the preservation of international law.

It's actually incredibly valuable to maintain the ruleset that enables us to be so prosperous.

[runrussellrun]

ahhh, the 'ask' is assumed; a free and democratic Ukraine, and the preservation of international law.

It's actually incredibly valuable to maintain the ruleset that enables us to be so prosperous.

[/quote]
ah huh........

only "free and "democratic" government help "us" prosper. Not China.

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone know if this is confirmed yet?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... -latest-vn

Interesting conversation with my son just now who had gotten off a call with a number of his direct reports in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc.

Russian colleagues are "distraught" over what is happening, worried about killing, worried about sanctions. He had a separate conversation afterwards with the young man from Georgia, who talked about the deep ties between the Georgians and the Ukrainians. Very quiet on the streets in Georgia right now, though there were protests...they're holding their breaths that this won't spread to Georgia, but expect it may eventually. That area is very opposed to Putin, don't want another 2008.

Separately, there are reports of Poles, Georgians, others crossing over to fight in Ukraine with the Ukrainians.

[MDlaxfan76]

ahhh, the 'ask' is assumed; a free and democratic Ukraine, and the preservation of international law.

It's actually incredibly valuable to maintain the ruleset that enables us to be so prosperous.

ah huh........

only "free and "democratic" government help "us" prosper. Not China.
[/quote]

Bigger conversation, but yes, a world in which international rules are maintained and respected enables the US to prosper.

The challenge with China is that they're not willing to abide, consistently, with international rules of the road either.

However, Imagine a moment a world in which Russians overthrow the kleptocracy and the new regime is democratic and open, enabling the Russian people, the common folks, not just the toadies to Putin, to prosper fully.

They're incredibly inefficient now, but imagine a world in which Russia is fully on board with international law. Imagine the pressure for China to conform to those standards as well.

Not a perfect world, but a heck of a lot better than the alternative path of authoritarianism holding sway, where the only thing that matters is military might and the willingness to use it constrainedly.

[PizzaSnake]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

As long as Hunter's money....and Burimsa stay ok.......

4 sides to EVERY story.........did we just forget the history of mankind?

Close, but not quite. "N+1" sides, where N is the number of parties involved....

[jhu72]

Anyone know if this is confirmed yet?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... -latest-vn

Interesting conversation with my son just now who had gotten off a call with a number of his direct reports in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc.

Russian colleagues are "distraught" over what is happening, worried about killing, worried about sanctions. He had a separate conversation afterwards with the young man from Georgia, who talked about the deep ties between the Georgians and the Ukrainians. Very quiet on the streets in Georgia right now, though there were protests...they're holding their breaths that this won't spread to Georgia, but expect it may eventually. That area is very opposed to Putin, don't want another 2008.

Separately, there are reports of Poles, Georgians, others crossing over to fight in Ukraine with the Ukrainians.

... I have seen it in multiple sources, however it always seems to lead back to a Ukrainian diplomat. In a situation like this I don't consider it confirmed.

--- Georgia is a good haul from Ukraine, with most direct route through enemy lines, or maybe you fly to Poland and cross there.

[runrussellrun]

ahhh, the 'ask' is assumed; a free and democratic Ukraine, and the preservation of international law.

It's actually incredibly valuable to maintain the ruleset that enables us to be so prosperous.

ah huh........

only "free and "democratic" government help "us" prosper. Not China.

Bigger conversation, but yes, a world in which international rules are maintained and respected enables the US to prosper.

The challenge with China is that they're not willing to abide, consistently, with international rules of the road either.


[/quote]

Stay focused........"free and democratic..........for the US to be prosperous" .

Don't deflect, prefer it if you backtracked even, on the subject of US citizens having to endure killing, war and all the junk that goes with it...based on being "free and democratic" ..

You can't say we need freedom , as the reason to kill, while making most of our profits from China. And than being ,well, gee , schucks......it's complicated.

Of course it's complicated........most issues are. So why you always wanna stop the information flow ?

[Peter Brown]

Anyone know if this is confirmed yet?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... -latest-vn

Interesting conversation with my son just now who had gotten off a call with a number of his direct reports in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc.

Russian colleagues are "distraught" over what is happening, worried about killing, worried about sanctions. He had a separate conversation afterwards with the young man from Georgia, who talked about the deep ties between the Georgians and the Ukrainians. Very quiet on the streets in Georgia right now, though there were protests...they're holding their breaths that this won't spread to Georgia, but expect it may eventually. That area is very opposed to Putin, don't want another 2008.

Separately, there are reports of Poles, Georgians, others crossing over to fight in Ukraine with the Ukrainians.

I don’t know if this is true per se, but the more I think about it, the more I think Putin is buying his own grave here. Ukrainians can fight forever, not too unlike what the Afghanis did to Russia back when.

And if the West was smart, they’d funnel guns and other ammo over various border and over a decade or so, surreptitiously of course, but enough to make this invasion really painful. If I was a young american again, I’d love to go over and give it a crack, and I’m not even a Ukrainian. I never exercised my war needs…which are still evident today, which is why many on Fanlax dislike me. Yes death is a possibility, but life is death ultimately and I’d rather die living than die dying, iykwim.

I also think more Russians are dying than what is being shown. He’s got little support at home. No one even understands his reasoning, he’s made himself now a war criminal.

Germany must get nuclear power going again. This war might indirectly help put to bed the woke lunacy of the global left.

[runrussellrun]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

As long as Hunter's money....and Burimsa stay ok.......

4 sides to EVERY story.........did we just forget the history of mankind?

Close, but not quite. "N+1" sides, where N is the number of parties involved....

One party, or person, can "say" on thing, but do "another" .

like when POS don j. Trump said "never again" when signing a spending bill increase....or Gavin Newsome saying "I am running for Gov. of Califorinia and FULLY edorse medicare for all ". Only, he didn't.

One person, two stories......and so it goes.

[Farfromgeneva]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

As long as Hunter's money....and Burimsa stay ok.......

4 sides to EVERY story.........did we just forget the history of mankind?

Close, but not quite. "N+1" sides, where N is the number of parties involved....

Rashomon!

[PizzaSnake]

Only a fool or someone naive or desperate would rely on a politician's word. Doubly so for an American politician. The US has demonstrated its fecklessness repeatedly. Some recent "hits": Marsh Arabs (HW -- 1st Gulf War), Kurds (Trumpy), Afghans (Biden).

What Biden told Zelensky when asked about the territorial integrity promise made in return for surrender of the third largest nuclear weapon arsenal in the world. Third largest. In the world. With that intact Ukraine wouldn't be in this position today. Can't say I blame any country for trying to acquire these weapons. I know I would if I were they. (And yes, subjective, not objective)

[Brooklyn]

I agree that we shouldn't be sending troops to Ukraine to help them fight; but respectfully, I don’t think Vietnam is a good example. The people of Vietnam never wanted a civil war with America as the manipulative antagonist. They wanted to be one free sovereign nation and declared that very definitely after the 2nd World War on September 2, 1945. Yet arrogant France, England and America decided they knew better and continued to meddle in the affairs of the Vietnamese people—the US especially by effectively dividing the country North and South and influencing political activities in the South. There was a point when all of Vietnam had a saying amongst themselves: “Two years” which is what they were led to believe was the amount of time remaining where they could realize their united independence. But the politicians and warmongers in America decided to subvert that effort as well. It’s all there in the Pentagon Papers. As far back as Truman, the US was sending money to keep their finger in Vietnam’s pie. Meddling Arrogant America was the ultimate reason for the war on Vietnam. I don’t see the same elements in place with Ukraine and Russia. In addition, the Vietnamese people fought plenty and to the death. No one could accuse them of shying away from fighting. For hundreds of years, they fought the Chinese, French, Japanese and lastly the Americans until they finally triumphed in the end.

They certainly did plenty of fighting up north. But if you recall, people in the south dropped their weapons on the field and repeatedly ran away from combat. The reason for this, of course, being only too obvious as they were on the side of their fellow Vietnamese from up north and against the imperialist invaders from the colonialist USA.

Despite all, the pro war crowd back then (and even today) said our soldiers were there fighting for our "freedom" and that freedom is not free. All bulls____t of course. Our soldiers were sacrificed as cannon fodder so that wealthy elites could profit from the war just as in Afghanistan and Iraq. Everybody without exception knows that this is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This is why some delusionals want another war as it means more war profit for them.

[Farfromgeneva]

Only a fool or someone naive or desperate would rely on a politician's word. Doubly so for an American politician. The US has demonstrated its fecklessness repeatedly. Some recent "hits": Marsh Arabs (HW -- 1st Gulf War), Kurds (Trumpy), Afghans (Biden).

What Biden told Zelensky when asked about the territorial integrity promise made in return for surrender of the third largest nuclear weapon arsenal in the world. Third largest. In the world. With that intact Ukraine wouldn't be in this position today. Can't say I blame any country for trying to acquire these weapons. I know I would if I were they. (And yes, subjective, not objective)

That is honestly one of my three favorite lines from that movie. And I know well over 20 lines in it.

[MDlaxfan76]

Anyone know if this is confirmed yet?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/15 ... -latest-vn

Interesting conversation with my son just now who had gotten off a call with a number of his direct reports in Russia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, etc.

Russian colleagues are "distraught" over what is happening, worried about killing, worried about sanctions. He had a separate conversation afterwards with the young man from Georgia, who talked about the deep ties between the Georgians and the Ukrainians. Very quiet on the streets in Georgia right now, though there were protests...they're holding their breaths that this won't spread to Georgia, but expect it may eventually. That area is very opposed to Putin, don't want another 2008.

Separately, there are reports of Poles, Georgians, others crossing over to fight in Ukraine with the Ukrainians.

I don’t know if this is true per se, but the more I think about it, the more I think Putin is buying his own grave here. Ukrainians can fight forever, not too unlike what the Afghanis did to Russia back when.

And if the West was smart, they’d funnel guns and other ammo over various border and over a decade or so, surreptitiously of course, but enough to make this invasion really painful. If I was a young american again, I’d love to go over and give it a crack, and I’m not even a Ukrainian. I never exercised my war needs…which are still evident today, which is why many on Fanlax dislike me. Yes death is a possibility, but life is death ultimately and I’d rather die living than die dying, iykwim.

I also think more Russians are dying than what is being shown. He’s got little support at home. No one even understands his reasoning, he’s made himself now a war criminal.

Germany must get nuclear power going again. This war might indirectly help put to bed the woke lunacy of the global left.

That's not why folks don't "like" you, but I do think that this could very well end in Putin's demise, though that's most likely well off in time.

Yes, extended resistance, supported with necessary weaponry...we don't need to be quiet about that, there'll be a gov't in exile.

Ratcheting up of economic stranglehold, progressive reduction in oil and gas purchased as alternative energy sources come on line, whether from ME, US, green or nuclear. That'll take time, but think in months and years, not days and weeks.

No electronics.

Very targeted on oligarchs and their families. Gotta be thorough on this. All of them, in every corner. I don't buy the argument that Putin can't be sanctioned personally as well. Seize ALL the assets.

I dunno whether the Germans will ever go nuclear. Technology has improved a lot, but still not good enough...but this may be a worthwhile tradeoff given stakes. Can always take them down....but this is definitely not happening overnight, even if the decision was clear.