All Things Russia & Ukraine

[tech37]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

[jhu72]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

... I am not sure Zelensky has the ability to even make that deal. His own countrymen may be ahead of him. They are going to have to be talked down. They will see this as being sold out. There is also another very intriguing possibility, that I will keep to myself.

[jhu72]

Resolve?

While the world decides what to do next UEFA is in meeting on what to do about St Petersburg hosting the Champions League final - the worlds Super Bowl. Also on what to do about Gasprom being one of its major sponsors. Perhaps they’ll even decide what to do about the two Russian teams playing in the UEFA Europa League payoffs. Zenit (St Petersburg) is playing at Betis (Sevilla) today and Spartak (Moscow) have a bye to the next round. Will any of these Russian interest face any scrutiny? There’s a lot of money involved and we know where the priorities are. Should be a slam dunk decision. Will there be resolve?

Some western nations have spoken. My suspicion is the organizers will try to move the games, if not cancel. The organizers won't survive to organize another tournament if they don't.

What kind of message is the West giving by giving stern with sanctions but that’s ok, your futbol teams can continue to have the privilege to play in important events. If major athletic events weren’t important to Russia then they would have never spent the time and money and bribing to host the Olympics, the World Cup and Champions League final.

I agree with you. A handful of western countries per article above have made it clear they don't think the international community should be holding the games in Russia.

[MDlaxfan76]

Don’t feel bad America.

America didn’t lose 2 wars in 5 months…

Biden and the democrats did

America voted for Trump and it’s not America’s fault.

You're just trolling.

Do you have anything substantive to add or do you just want to throw partisan bricks?

Dissociative persona or late bloomer (April 2021 incept date)?

Are we sure Essex isn't Petey?

[DocBarrister]

Your idolatry of Vladimir Putin is repugnant and suggestive of some serious deficiencies in character.

DocBarrister

Your failure to acknowledge reality is suggestive of the triumph of emotion over reason.
The failure to understand Putin & to take him seriously is why we are in this situation.
Here's what that same author would say in response to your childish, vindictive, emotional attack.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-res ... 1645729800

A Rogue Russia Tries to Reset the World Order
If the U.S. response to the invasion of Ukraine is purposeful, creative and wise, Putin’s campaign will ultimately fail.
by Walter Russell Mead Feb. 24, 2022

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has claimed his place in history. Not since Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in 1941 has a European leader committed an act of aggression as brutal or as nakedly cynical as Mr. Putin’s utterly unprovoked attack on Ukraine. He has made himself an international outlaw and turned the great nation of Russia into a rogue state.

This is a criminal war of premeditated and unjustified aggression, and Mr. Putin’s Western allies and enablers should probably check with their lawyers. The Nuremberg trials punished economic collaborators who enabled Hitler’s wars of aggression.

For good or ill, Mr. Putin’s gamble will shape the future of Europe and the fate of world order. Western leaders have failed to frustrate his campaign to rebuild an illiberal empire on the haunted ruins of the Soviet state. Like their predecessors at the beginning of World War II, their own place in history depends on how they respond to a challenge that wiser, more resolute leadership would have nipped in the bud. It would have been easy to stop Mr. Putin 20 years or even a decade ago. Today it will require a much greater effort in a much darker world.

One must at this moment pause to think of the long-suffering people of Ukraine. An independent Ukrainian state briefly emerged from World War I only to be plunged into the horrors of the Russian Revolution and the subsequent civil war. The scars had scarcely begun to heal when Stalin’s genocidal policies inflicted new rounds of mass death through deliberately engineered starvation and systemic repression. Then came Hitler’s invasion with all the atrocities and brutalities that Nazi occupation could bring—followed by the harsh reimposition of Soviet rule and decades of stagnation under a dictatorship of lies culminating in the Chernobyl disaster. Post-Soviet Ukraine was never a model of good governance or economic success, but after their tragic history the Ukrainian people had, and have, an incontestable moral right to determine their own future in their own way.

As for the future of American foreign policy, we should not underestimate the difficulties ahead. This is not only about Ukraine, and Mr. Putin will not rest on his laurels if his gamble succeeds. Like any comic-book supervillain, he makes no secret of his goals. He aims to topple the U.S. from its global position, break the post-Cold War world order, cripple the European Union and defeat the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Russia, even with the addition of Ukraine, does not have China’s superpower potential. But given the incompatibility of its goals with American interests and its demonstrated ability to punch above its economic weight, Russia poses threats that the U.S. cannot afford to ignore.

It would have been better to deal with Mr. Putin’s challenge in 2008, when he invaded Georgia, or 2014, at the time of his first invasions of Ukraine. Russia was weaker, China was less challenging, and the U.S. was in a stronger international position. But the American political system elected to kick the can down the road, and here we are. We will have to face an empowered Russia and a resurgent China at the same time, and this complex and dangerous task will require better and more-focused political leadership than Americans have known in this century.

President Biden must use the shock and horror of Russian aggression in Ukraine to build an allied and domestic consensus for a reinvigorated foreign policy. Many of the strategies come from Ronald Reagan’s playbook. We can massively outspend Russia on defense and cyber capabilities. We can marginalize Russia diplomatically while attacking its oil income and limiting its access to technology. We must solidify our alliances while degrading Russian influence everywhere from Syria and Libya to Venezuela, Cuba and beyond.

Mr. Putin is a gifted leader, and we must expect more surprises. But even with the addition of Ukraine, Russia is weaker than the Soviet Union was. If the American response is purposeful, creative and wise, Mr. Putin’s campaign against the world order will ultimately fail.

Nothing less can be our goal. “My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple, and some would say simplistic,” Reagan told his foreign-policy adviser Richard Allen in 1977. “We win and they lose.” Mr. Putin has sought to return the world to an era of zero-sum international competition under the law of the jungle; he and the acolytes and imitators inspired by his example must be taught why that’s bad.

You are practically giddy like a schoolgirl over Putin’s deadly invasion of a budding democracy.

Putin is a murderous thug who has launched an unprovoked invasion of a relatively new democracy, destabilizing all of Europe.

What is it that you don’t understand?

Your worship of Putin is disgraceful.

DocBarrister

[MDlaxfan76]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

... I am not sure Zelensky has the ability to even make that deal. His own countrymen may be ahead of him. They are going to have to be talked down. They will see this as being sold out. There is also another very intriguing possibility, that I will keep to myself.

Former Ukraine President Porosheko was on tv this AM, in the streets with a resistance militia, lines to get arms, give blood. Ukrainians are united in their hatred of Putin.

[runrussellrun]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

... I am not sure Zelensky has the ability to even make that deal. His own countrymen may be ahead of him. They are going to have to be talked down. They will see this as being sold out. There is also another very intriguing possibility, that I will keep to myself.

Former Ukraine President Porosheko was on tv this AM, in the streets with a resistance militia, lines to get arms, give blood. Ukrainians are united in their hatred of Putin.

which channel ?

[MDlaxfan76]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

[youthathletics]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

... I am not sure Zelensky has the ability to even make that deal. His own countrymen may be ahead of him. They are going to have to be talked down. They will see this as being sold out. There is also another very intriguing possibility, that I will keep to myself.

Former Ukraine President Porosheko was on tv this AM, in the streets with a resistance militia, lines to get arms, give blood. Ukrainians are united in their hatred of Putin.

which channel ?

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/uk ... 935bda8ffd

[tech37]

You are practically giddy like a schoolgirl over Putin’s deadly invasion of a budding democracy.

Putin is a murderous thug who has launched an unprovoked invasion of a relatively new democracy, destabilizing all of Europe.

What is it that you don’t understand?

Your worship of Putin is disgraceful.

DocBarrister

Your attacks on OS could not be more disingenuous nor dumber. What were you doing while he was serving the country during the Cold War? Pursuing your multiple degrees? Stop mischaracterizing his informed/experienced position and show a little gratitude while you're at it.

[Farfromgeneva]

Please. You don’t get a lifetime pass for anything one does in life. That includes docs degrees as well. For someone who claims to be enlightened that’s a really generic, dumb and tired comment.

[tech37]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

That too, needless to say.

Perhaps not "too late!" More chatter on news re talks (backed by Xi?) We need some cooler heads to prevail here.

[MDlaxfan76]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

That too, needless to say.

Perhaps not "too late!" More chatter on news re talks (backed by Xi?) We need some cooler heads to prevail here.

Zelensky is asking for talks with Putin...stiff armed by Putin.

It's not "needless to say", it's the whole deal.
The "boo Biden" crap is absolutely wrong.

Not the time for partisan baloney.

Watched Ben Sasse this AM, shortly followed by Hillary Clinton.
Both excellent, clear eyed, tough minded.

My wife, who really dislikes Clinton said, "boy, I really like her...when she's not a candidate..."

Not a time for partisan politics.

[jhu72]

China now appears to be on board.

[jhu72]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

... I am not sure Zelensky has the ability to even make that deal. His own countrymen may be ahead of him. They are going to have to be talked down. They will see this as being sold out. There is also another very intriguing possibility, that I will keep to myself.

Former Ukraine President Porosheko was on tv this AM, in the streets with a resistance militia, lines to get arms, give blood. Ukrainians are united in their hatred of Putin.

... and which side of the Dnieper they live on doesn't make a lot of difference.

[runrussellrun]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

As long as Hunter's money....and Burimsa stay ok.......

4 sides to EVERY story.........did we just forget the history of mankind?

[tech37]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

That too, needless to say.

Perhaps not "too late!" More chatter on news re talks (backed by Xi?) We need some cooler heads to prevail here.

Zelensky is asking for talks with Putin...stiff armed by Putin.

It's not "needless to say", it's the whole deal.
The "boo Biden" crap is absolutely wrong.

Not the time for partisan baloney.

Watched Ben Sasse this AM, shortly followed by Hillary Clinton.
Both excellent, clear eyed, tough minded.

My wife, who really dislikes Clinton said, "boy, I really like her...when she's not a candidate..."

Not a time for partisan politics.

It's not "boo Biden" and why I said "(years?)." The fact is, he IS in the driver seat or do you have a problem with that too?

[Peter Brown]

Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status
A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.

Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.

Too late. That neutrality conversation should have taken place months (years?) ago. Sure hope Biden doesn't make things worse.

Why isn't "sure hope Putin doesn't make it worse"???

Ukrainians are united now in their hatred of Putin.

That too, needless to say.

Perhaps not "too late!" More chatter on news re talks (backed by Xi?) We need some cooler heads to prevail here.

Zelensky is asking for talks with Putin...stiff armed by Putin.

It's not "needless to say", it's the whole deal.
The "boo Biden" crap is absolutely wrong.

Not the time for partisan baloney.

Watched Ben Sasse this AM, shortly followed by Hillary Clinton.
Both excellent, clear eyed, tough minded.

My wife, who really dislikes Clinton said, "boy, I really like her...when she's not a candidate..."

Not a time for partisan politics.

Looks like I’ve got MD watching Morning Joe now. I watch that show primarily to understand what Democrats are thinking. Sasse being on is an unusual appearance so far as any Republican.

Anyway, I too thought both were solid and clear-eyed.

Putin has boxed himself in a corner here. Absolutely no one, including his own people, support this invasion. Sports stars from Russia are speaking out.

OTH….If it’s accurate that 3 months back American intelligence was telling Biden that an invasion was certain, that would be disappointing to say the least. Because America was clearly not prepared.

The West needs to get Javelin missiles in the hands of Ukrainians yesterday. Why was this not done ahead of time?

Sometimes I feel we don’t get to see what’s really behind some of these decisions and non-decisions…skipping over DocB’s incoherent permanent-defense of all Democrats regardless of talent, if you told me that the elite of the west actually want Ukraine to fall, I could possibly buy that primarily because the west is not doing all that could be done here to stop Putin. Something is fishy…

[OCanada]

The cyber war has already begun, The American advantage is large.

Putin is a corrupt GRU gangster. He has not done well by Russia but then he stays in power bcs of the oligarchs. He deals in assassinations and various criminal enterprises done of which involve Americans and keeps the peace. Not unlike the head of the five families. He has gone to war four times and escaped pretty much unscathed. He put in place puppet regimes. His current disinformation campaign saw its first iteration in Crimea. It has significant support inside the USA.

My parents and brother all served. They didn’t didn’t bring it up or expect deference. I can’t speak for the ancesters.

Putin in a 5’5 vow pattie trying to restore the USSR and unwind the oost WW ll guard raiks that kept Europe at peace. His position is probably not as strong as some think.

He doesn’t have unlimited manpower like the Chinese or their tech strengths. He is dangerous bcs he is weak. So far protests have begun in more than 50 cities w about 2,000 arrested. It is questionable whether he had the resources to sustain an occupation. So much is at play now.

[Peter Brown]

You are practically giddy like a schoolgirl over Putin’s deadly invasion of a budding democracy.

Putin is a murderous thug who has launched an unprovoked invasion of a relatively new democracy, destabilizing all of Europe.

What is it that you don’t understand?

Your worship of Putin is disgraceful.

DocBarrister

Your attacks on OS could not be more disingenuous nor dumber. What were you doing while he was serving the country during the Cold War? Pursuing your multiple degrees? Stop mischaracterizing his informed/experienced position and show a little gratitude while you're at it.

Correct.

Skipping past the omnipresent personal insults, DocB gets so much wrong, I’m not sure where to begin. Ukraine remains an incredibly corrupt country. I’m not sure it was a ‘budding democracy’; what it was was a country with some earnest reformers doing their best to hold together a jumble of ethnic opponents and areas.

And the blame falls squarely on Putin. Biden doesn’t get a pass if it turns out his administration, as is being rumored today by CIA folks who clearly don’t like this team, ignored warnings for the past three months. Let’s see how that shakes out.

Finally, OS doesnt ‘worship Putin’, of course, and to suggest let alone state for the record so is worthy of suspension here. DocB you owe OS an apology. Really shameful conduct.