This shooting war Russia has with Ukraine then moves into the high tech cyberwarfare that is the next step in the chess game. So our move is in even harsher sanctions, Putins move is to shut down our power grid or something similar. You don't think that Putin has not thought out his next move??? I do, the west has already told him what they will do next. You think Putin won't respond?
Sure, but you think we don't have all the offensive cyber capabilities they have? And better defensive?
HINT: ours are way better.
This not going to be pleasant at all for us. But it's gonna be hell on Russia.
...it won't be so bad for us.
Let's engage Russia in cyberwarfare. What could go wrong ?
We panic when our phone battery gets low. Keep your gas tank full.
This shooting war Russia has with Ukraine then moves into the high tech cyberwarfare that is the next step in the chess game. So our move is in even harsher sanctions, Putins move is to shut down our power grid or something similar. You don't think that Putin has not thought out his next move??? I do, the west has already told him what they will do next. You think Putin won't respond?
Sure, but you think we don't have all the offensive cyber capabilities they have? And better defensive?
HINT: ours are way better.
This not going to be pleasant at all for us. But it's gonna be hell on Russia.
...it won't be so bad for us.
Let's engage Russia in cyberwarfare. What could go wrong ? We panic when our phone battery gets low.
They definitely have the upper hand in cyber. Could you imagine the triple masked mentally illness diagnosed white liberals with no smartphone access for months? Russians haven’t even been able to afford a counselor at all.. ever. It’s a mental bloodbath! Don’t go there Sleepy Joe I implore you!!
This shooting war Russia has with Ukraine then moves into the high tech cyberwarfare that is the next step in the chess game. So our move is in even harsher sanctions, Putins move is to shut down our power grid or something similar. You don't think that Putin has not thought out his next move??? I do, the west has already told him what they will do next. You think Putin won't respond?
Sure, but you think we don't have all the offensive cyber capabilities they have? And better defensive?
HINT: ours are way better.
This not going to be pleasant at all for us. But it's gonna be hell on Russia.
...it won't be so bad for us.
Let's engage Russia in cyberwarfare. What could go wrong ?
We panic when our phone battery gets low. Keep your gas tank full.
... we may not have a choice. Russia is already engaged in cyberwarfare against Ukraine. They don't always do a good job of hitting their intended target or confining damage to their target. If you think we have not already engaged them, prior to the Ukraine invasion in payment for their low level attacks against the US, so as to make the point to them, you would be wrong.
I was just watching news of refugees from Ukraine flowing by droves into Poland. I was amazed at home many young people are fleeing. None of them willing to fight for their country. So a question came to my mind ~ if these people are not willing to fight for their country, then why should the USA have to do any fighting for them?
Let's see the forum pro war crowd answer that question. Why should we fight in any way when they won't fight ~ just like in Vietnam.
I'll wait for an answer. I bet it'll be a long wait.
It has been proven a hundred times that the surest way to the heart of any man, black or white, honest or dishonest, is through justice and fairness.
OPINION GLOBAL VIEW Why Putin Is Outfoxing the West by Walter Russell Mead, Feb. 21, 2022
Russia’s president is willing to take risks his opponents would never consider.
As Western leaders struggle to respond to Vladimir Putin’s unexpectedly dramatic challenge to the post-Cold War order in Europe, the record so far is mixed. The West has assembled something approaching a united stance on the limits of the concessions it is prepared to make and on the nature of the sanctions it is willing to impose should Mr. Putin choose war. Neither hyperactive grandstanding in Paris nor phlegmatic passivity from Berlin has prevented the emergence of a common Western position. This is an accomplishment for which the Biden administration deserves credit.
Yet this is a defensive accomplishment, not a decisive one. As Mr. Putin demonstrated in his speech Monday, the Russian president is still in the driver’s seat, and it is his decisions, not ours, that will shape the next stage of the confrontation. Russia, a power that Western leaders mocked and derided for decades (“a gas station masquerading as a country,” as Sen. John McCain once put it), has seized the diplomatic and military initiative in Europe, and the West is, so far, powerless to do anything about it. We wring our hands, offer Mr. Putin off-ramps, and hope that our carefully hedged descriptions of the sanctions we are prepared to impose will change his mind.
At best, we’ve improvised a quick and dirty response to a strategic surprise, but we are very far from having a serious Russia policy and it is all too likely at this point that Mr. Putin will continue to outmaneuver his Western rivals and produce new surprises from his magician’s hat.
The West has two problems in countering Mr. Putin. The first is a problem of will. The West does not want a confrontation with Russia and in any crisis the goal remains to calm things down. That basic approach not only makes appeasement an attractive option whenever difficulties appear; it prevents us from thinking proactively. When Russia stops bothering us, we stop thinking about Russia.
The second is a problem of imagination. Western leaders still do not understand Mr. Putin. Most of them see that he is not just another colorless timeserver who thinks that appointing a record number of female economists to the board of his central bank constitutes a historic accomplishment. They are beginning to see that he is in quest of bigger game and that he means what he says about reassembling the Soviet Union and reviving Russian power. But they have not yet really fathomed the gulf between Mr. Putin’s world and their own—and until they do, he will continue to confound their expectations and disrupt their agendas.
Mr. Putin is, first and foremost, a gambler who is accustomed to taking large risks against long odds with a cool head. He is not infallible by any means, but he has years of experience in taking calculated risks, defying the odds, and imposing his will on stronger opponents. Like Napoleon Bonaparte, he can surprise and outmaneuver his opponents because he is willing to assume risks they would never consider, and so to attack in times and ways they can neither imagine nor plan for.
Beyond that, Mr. Putin is a Soviet nostalgist. He is the product of a system in which power produced truth and truth reinforced power. Soviet power rested on lies that state power imposed on society as unquestionable truths. If Comrade Stalin said that the sun was green and the sky was pink, his ability to impose such outrageous falsities on a captive society only demonstrated and reinforced the extent of his power. Exposing Mr. Putin as, by our standards, a liar does not weaken him at home or, in his view, in Ukraine.
In the same way, accusing Mr. Putin, even accurately, of planning or committing atrocities may weaken him among human-rights activists in the West, but it may strengthen him at home and in Ukraine. Stalin’s well-earned reputation for utter ruthlessness did not undercut his power. Letting the world know that Mr. Putin has a kill list for Ukraine is more likely, Mr. Putin may believe, to reduce resistance to his rule in Ukraine than to boost it.
Mr. Putin is an immensely skilled ruler, the most formidable Russian figure since Stalin, but he has his problems, too. Russian power remains limited by material and demographic constraints—and the rise of China is a geopolitical factor that no ruler in the Kremlin can permanently afford to ignore. If Western leaders can overcome their posthistorical parochialism and develop coherent strategies for the actual world as opposed to the world of their dreams, effectively countering Vladimir Putin is an eminently achievable goal, though in no way a simple or a trivial one.
OPINION GLOBAL VIEW Why Putin Is Outfoxing the West by Walter Russell Mead, Feb. 21, 2022
Russia’s president is willing to take risks his opponents would never consider.
As Western leaders struggle to respond to Vladimir Putin’s unexpectedly dramatic challenge to the post-Cold War order in Europe, the record so far is mixed. The West has assembled something approaching a united stance on the limits of the concessions it is prepared to make and on the nature of the sanctions it is willing to impose should Mr. Putin choose war. Neither hyperactive grandstanding in Paris nor phlegmatic passivity from Berlin has prevented the emergence of a common Western position. This is an accomplishment for which the Biden administration deserves credit.
Yet this is a defensive accomplishment, not a decisive one. As Mr. Putin demonstrated in his speech Monday, the Russian president is still in the driver’s seat, and it is his decisions, not ours, that will shape the next stage of the confrontation. Russia, a power that Western leaders mocked and derided for decades (“a gas station masquerading as a country,” as Sen. John McCain once put it), has seized the diplomatic and military initiative in Europe, and the West is, so far, powerless to do anything about it. We wring our hands, offer Mr. Putin off-ramps, and hope that our carefully hedged descriptions of the sanctions we are prepared to impose will change his mind.
At best, we’ve improvised a quick and dirty response to a strategic surprise, but we are very far from having a serious Russia policy and it is all too likely at this point that Mr. Putin will continue to outmaneuver his Western rivals and produce new surprises from his magician’s hat.
The West has two problems in countering Mr. Putin. The first is a problem of will. The West does not want a confrontation with Russia and in any crisis the goal remains to calm things down. That basic approach not only makes appeasement an attractive option whenever difficulties appear; it prevents us from thinking proactively. When Russia stops bothering us, we stop thinking about Russia.
The second is a problem of imagination. Western leaders still do not understand Mr. Putin. Most of them see that he is not just another colorless timeserver who thinks that appointing a record number of female economists to the board of his central bank constitutes a historic accomplishment. They are beginning to see that he is in quest of bigger game and that he means what he says about reassembling the Soviet Union and reviving Russian power. But they have not yet really fathomed the gulf between Mr. Putin’s world and their own—and until they do, he will continue to confound their expectations and disrupt their agendas.
Mr. Putin is, first and foremost, a gambler who is accustomed to taking large risks against long odds with a cool head. He is not infallible by any means, but he has years of experience in taking calculated risks, defying the odds, and imposing his will on stronger opponents. Like Napoleon Bonaparte, he can surprise and outmaneuver his opponents because he is willing to assume risks they would never consider, and so to attack in times and ways they can neither imagine nor plan for.
Beyond that, Mr. Putin is a Soviet nostalgist. He is the product of a system in which power produced truth and truth reinforced power. Soviet power rested on lies that state power imposed on society as unquestionable truths. If Comrade Stalin said that the sun was green and the sky was pink, his ability to impose such outrageous falsities on a captive society only demonstrated and reinforced the extent of his power. Exposing Mr. Putin as, by our standards, a liar does not weaken him at home or, in his view, in Ukraine.
In the same way, accusing Mr. Putin, even accurately, of planning or committing atrocities may weaken him among human-rights activists in the West, but it may strengthen him at home and in Ukraine. Stalin’s well-earned reputation for utter ruthlessness did not undercut his power. Letting the world know that Mr. Putin has a kill list for Ukraine is more likely, Mr. Putin may believe, to reduce resistance to his rule in Ukraine than to boost it.
Mr. Putin is an immensely skilled ruler, the most formidable Russian figure since Stalin, but he has his problems, too. Russian power remains limited by material and demographic constraints—and the rise of China is a geopolitical factor that no ruler in the Kremlin can permanently afford to ignore. If Western leaders can overcome their posthistorical parochialism and develop coherent strategies for the actual world as opposed to the world of their dreams, effectively countering Vladimir Putin is an eminently achievable goal, though in no way a simple or a trivial one.
Your idolatry of Vladimir Putin is repugnant and suggestive of some serious deficiencies in character.
Barry McCaffrey noted something I had not considered. The forces the US deploys to the Polish border will have the effect of drawing down Russian forces from Ukraine.
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:52 am
Your idolatry of Vladimir Putin is repugnant and suggestive of some serious deficiencies in character.
DocBarrister
Your failure to acknowledge reality is suggestive of the triumph of emotion over reason.
The failure to understand Putin & to take him seriously is why we are in this situation.
Here's what that same author would say in response to your childish, vindictive, emotional attack.
A Rogue Russia Tries to Reset the World Order
If the U.S. response to the invasion of Ukraine is purposeful, creative and wise, Putin’s campaign will ultimately fail.
by Walter Russell Mead Feb. 24, 2022
Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin has claimed his place in history. Not since Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in 1941 has a European leader committed an act of aggression as brutal or as nakedly cynical as Mr. Putin’s utterly unprovoked attack on Ukraine. He has made himself an international outlaw and turned the great nation of Russia into a rogue state.
This is a criminal war of premeditated and unjustified aggression, and Mr. Putin’s Western allies and enablers should probably check with their lawyers. The Nuremberg trials punished economic collaborators who enabled Hitler’s wars of aggression.
For good or ill, Mr. Putin’s gamble will shape the future of Europe and the fate of world order. Western leaders have failed to frustrate his campaign to rebuild an illiberal empire on the haunted ruins of the Soviet state. Like their predecessors at the beginning of World War II, their own place in history depends on how they respond to a challenge that wiser, more resolute leadership would have nipped in the bud. It would have been easy to stop Mr. Putin 20 years or even a decade ago. Today it will require a much greater effort in a much darker world.
One must at this moment pause to think of the long-suffering people of Ukraine. An independent Ukrainian state briefly emerged from World War I only to be plunged into the horrors of the Russian Revolution and the subsequent civil war. The scars had scarcely begun to heal when Stalin’s genocidal policies inflicted new rounds of mass death through deliberately engineered starvation and systemic repression. Then came Hitler’s invasion with all the atrocities and brutalities that Nazi occupation could bring—followed by the harsh reimposition of Soviet rule and decades of stagnation under a dictatorship of lies culminating in the Chernobyl disaster. Post-Soviet Ukraine was never a model of good governance or economic success, but after their tragic history the Ukrainian people had, and have, an incontestable moral right to determine their own future in their own way.
As for the future of American foreign policy, we should not underestimate the difficulties ahead. This is not only about Ukraine, and Mr. Putin will not rest on his laurels if his gamble succeeds. Like any comic-book supervillain, he makes no secret of his goals. He aims to topple the U.S. from its global position, break the post-Cold War world order, cripple the European Union and defeat the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Russia, even with the addition of Ukraine, does not have China’s superpower potential. But given the incompatibility of its goals with American interests and its demonstrated ability to punch above its economic weight, Russia poses threats that the U.S. cannot afford to ignore.
It would have been better to deal with Mr. Putin’s challenge in 2008, when he invaded Georgia, or 2014, at the time of his first invasions of Ukraine. Russia was weaker, China was less challenging, and the U.S. was in a stronger international position. But the American political system elected to kick the can down the road, and here we are. We will have to face an empowered Russia and a resurgent China at the same time, and this complex and dangerous task will require better and more-focused political leadership than Americans have known in this century.
President Biden must use the shock and horror of Russian aggression in Ukraine to build an allied and domestic consensus for a reinvigorated foreign policy. Many of the strategies come from Ronald Reagan’s playbook. We can massively outspend Russia on defense and cyber capabilities. We can marginalize Russia diplomatically while attacking its oil income and limiting its access to technology. We must solidify our alliances while degrading Russian influence everywhere from Syria and Libya to Venezuela, Cuba and beyond.
Mr. Putin is a gifted leader, and we must expect more surprises. But even with the addition of Ukraine, Russia is weaker than the Soviet Union was. If the American response is purposeful, creative and wise, Mr. Putin’s campaign against the world order will ultimately fail.
Nothing less can be our goal. “My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple, and some would say simplistic,” Reagan told his foreign-policy adviser Richard Allen in 1977. “We win and they lose.” Mr. Putin has sought to return the world to an era of zero-sum international competition under the law of the jungle; he and the acolytes and imitators inspired by his example must be taught why that’s bad.
Trump
Republicans
Independents
Neocons
Traditional Democrats
Progressives whites with mental illness diagnosis
That’s the pyramid.
Does that come with Mickey Mouses autograph?
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
The difference between the media side and the soap opera star side of the channel.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
DocBarrister wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:52 am
Your idolatry of Vladimir Putin is repugnant and suggestive of some serious deficiencies in character.
DocBarrister
Your failure to acknowledge reality is suggestive of the triumph of emotion over reason.
The failure to understand Putin & to take him seriously is why we are in this situation.
Here's what that same author would say in response to your childish, vindictive, emotional attack.
A Rogue Russia Tries to Reset the World Order
If the U.S. response to the invasion of Ukraine is purposeful, creative and wise, Putin’s campaign will ultimately fail.
by Walter Russell Mead Feb. 24, 2022
Putin Is Running Rings Around the West
by Walter Russell Mead, Jan. 12, 2022
While U.S. and European leaders natter about soft power, Russia’s president is making power moves.
Nobody knows whether Vladimir Putin will invade Ukraine, but it is increasingly clear that a divided and confused Western alliance doesn’t know how to deal with the challenge he poses.
Lost in a narcissistic fog of grandiose pomposity, Western diplomats spent the past decade dismissing the Russian president as the knuckle-dragging relic of a discarded past. As then-Secretary of State John Kerry sniffed during Mr. Putin’s 2014 invasion of Ukraine, “You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on a completely trumped up pretext.”
Neville Chamberlain learned more from failure at Munich than the current generation of Western leaders learned from failure in Crimea. Convinced that the old rules of power politics don’t apply in our enlightened posthistorical century, Europeans nattered on about soft power only to find themselves locked out of key U.S.-Russia talks over Ukraine. As China and Russia grew more powerful and assertive, Americans enthusiastically embraced the politics of mean-spirited polarization and domestic culture wars. Now the Biden administration is simultaneously proclaiming overseas that America is back, in all its order-building awesomeness, and maintaining at home that democracy is one voting-rights bill away from collapse.
Pathetic throwback that he is, Mr. Putin used his time differently, rebuilding the Soviet Union under the nose of a feckless and distracted West. Because Russia hasn’t annexed breakaway republics, many observers underestimate how successful Mr. Putin’s reassembly of the U.S.S.R. has been. But it is hegemony, not uniformity, that he wants. ...Mr. Putin’s goal is to re-establish ultimate control while leaving subordinate rulers in place.
It’s working. In 2020 he reasserted Russian control over the South Caucasus by ending the Azerbaijani-Armenian war on his terms. Last spring as the West huffed and puffed, Mr. Putin kept Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko in power. Last week Mr. Putin established himself as the supreme arbiter of Kazakhstan... In most of the former Soviet Union today, Mr. Putin decides who rules and who weeps. Of the 15 constituent republics of the old Soviet Union, only five (the three Baltic states, Moldova and Ukraine) have held him at arm’s length. Georgia clings precariously to the shreds of a once-robust independence; the American withdrawal from Afghanistan leaves countries like Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan more dependent on Moscow than ever.
Meanwhile, the West is less well positioned to withstand Russian pressure on Ukraine than it was in 2014. Europe’s doubts about American commitment and wisdom are greater than they were then. German pacifism is more deeply entrenched. Brexit has undermined relations among Europe’s chief military powers. Europe’s dependency on Russian oil and natural gas leaves the West as vulnerable as ever to energy blackmail—and sharply limits the West’s ability to impose economic sanctions on a partner without which it can neither heat its homes nor run its factories. Mr. Putin also knows that economic sanctions will fall more heavily on Europe than on the U.S., deepening the fractures in an alliance he hopes to destroy. With oil prices above $80 a barrel and China backing his play, Mr. Putin may be less vulnerable to economic sanctions than the White House hopes.
Washington, meanwhile, is unintentionally but unmistakably telegraphing its vulnerability to blackmail. With the Biden administration lobbying Congress to block sanctions on the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, Moscow can’t be blamed for thinking that the Americans are prepared to pay a price to preserve “stability.”
Mr. Putin is having a great crisis so far and seems to have little to fear. His successes in Belarus and Kazakhstan have thoroughly cowed domestic opposition. The runup in energy prices gives him a cash cushion. The crisis has again put Russia at the center of world politics, demonstrated Western weakness, terrified Ukraine, and highlighted Mr. Putin’s mastery of the game of thrones. His decisions about what to do next will depend entirely on what he thinks will advance Russia’s core goals. Haggle at the bargaining table while Western unity frays? Seize a chunk of Ukraine while the West sputters with impotent moralism? Magnanimously accept Western concessions and return to stability until the next time?
Mr. Putin’s success is the measure of Western intellectual and political failure. Until Western leaders emerge from the mists of posthistorical illusion and recover the lost art of effective foreign policy, he will continue to make gains at our expense.
Last edited by old salt on Fri Feb 25, 2022 5:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:10 am
I was just watching news of refugees from Ukraine flowing by droves into Poland. I was amazed at home many young people are fleeing. None of them willing to fight for their country. So a question came to my mind ~ if these people are not willing to fight for their country, then why should the USA have to do any fighting for them?
Let's see the forum pro war crowd answer that question. Why should we fight in any way when they won't fight ~ just like in Vietnam.
I'll wait for an answer. I bet it'll be a long wait.
I agree that we shouldn't be sending troops to Ukraine to help them fight; but respectfully, I don’t think Vietnam is a good example. The people of Vietnam never wanted a civil war with America as the manipulative antagonist. They wanted to be one free sovereign nation and declared that very definitely after the 2nd World War on September 2, 1945. Yet arrogant France, England and America decided they knew better and continued to meddle in the affairs of the Vietnamese people—the US especially by effectively dividing the country North and South and influencing political activities in the South. There was a point when all of Vietnam had a saying amongst themselves: “Two years” which is what they were led to believe was the amount of time remaining where they could realize their united independence. But the politicians and warmongers in America decided to subvert that effort as well. It’s all there in the Pentagon Papers. As far back as Truman, the US was sending money to keep their finger in Vietnam’s pie. Meddling Arrogant America was the ultimate reason for the war on Vietnam. I don’t see the same elements in place with Ukraine and Russia. In addition, the Vietnamese people fought plenty and to the death. No one could accuse them of shying away from fighting. For hundreds of years, they fought the Chinese, French, Japanese and lastly the Americans until they finally triumphed in the end.
Zelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.
Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.
old salt wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:28 amZelensky ready to talk terms with Putin for neutral status A visibly shaken President Zelensky addressed Ukraine explaining that he was the number one target for Russian forces, and that he was willing to discuss Russian demands for neutral status of Ukraine.
Biden needs to call Putin, advise him to declare an immediate cease fire & meet with Zelensky, or not rule out a military response from the US.
I believe this was Putin's goal from the outset. He has a willing populace in eastern Ukraine so would not face much of an insurgency. He could get the Donetsk and Luhansk regions declared independent and withdraw to their boundaries, or perhaps back into western Russia. If he tried to topple Ukraine's government he could face a protracted conflict that could hurt him domestically.
"I would never want to belong to a club that would have me as a member", Groucho Marx
Brooklyn wrote: ↑Fri Feb 25, 2022 12:10 am
I was just watching news of refugees from Ukraine flowing by droves into Poland. I was amazed at home many young people are fleeing. None of them willing to fight for their country. So a question came to my mind ~ if these people are not willing to fight for their country, then why should the USA have to do any fighting for them?
Let's see the forum pro war crowd answer that question. Why should we fight in any way when they won't fight ~ just like in Vietnam.
I'll wait for an answer. I bet it'll be a long wait.
I agree that we shouldn't be sending troops to Ukraine to help them fight; but respectfully, I don’t think Vietnam is a good example. The people of Vietnam never wanted a civil war with America as the manipulative antagonist. They wanted to be one free sovereign nation and declared that very definitely after the 2nd World War on September 2, 1945. Yet arrogant France, England and America decided they knew better and continued to meddle in the affairs of the Vietnamese people—the US especially by effectively dividing the country North and South and influencing political activities in the South. There was a point when all of Vietnam had a saying amongst themselves: “Two years” which is what they were led to believe was the amount of time remaining where they could realize their united independence. But the politicians and warmongers in America decided to subvert that effort as well. It’s all there in the Pentagon Papers. As far back as Truman, the US was sending money to keep their finger in Vietnam’s pie. Meddling Arrogant America was the ultimate reason for the war on Vietnam. I don’t see the same elements in place with Ukraine and Russia. In addition, the Vietnamese people fought plenty and to the death. No one could accuse them of shying away from fighting. For hundreds of years, they fought the Chinese, French, Japanese and lastly the Americans until they finally triumphed in the end.
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 8:03 am
sure everything will work, just....ummm great. It was the software that keeps the F 35 from performing. Or the parts made in Turkey ....anyway, that waste of time and money, won't be used in this war, wrong mission
We sent 2 x F-35's to Latvia & 2 x F-35's to Romania.
They are likely flying missions along the borders, on the NATO side, gathering ISR & probing Russia's S-400 missile radars.
More humans have been killed in Chicago this week than Ukraine..........shouldn't our "defense" systems be deployed on the banks of lake Michigan ?
Big world.........why do you care about the Ukraine? How is any of this going to effect the USA ?
who should we kill today? got it.....
ILM...Independent Lives Matter
Pronouns: "we" and "suck"
While the world decides what to do next UEFA is in meeting on what to do about St Petersburg hosting the Champions League final - the worlds Super Bowl. Also on what to do about Gasprom being one of its major sponsors. Perhaps they’ll even decide what to do about the two Russian teams playing in the UEFA Europa League payoffs. Zenit (St Petersburg) is playing at Betis (Sevilla) today and Spartak (Moscow) have a bye to the next round. Will any of these Russian interest face any scrutiny? There’s a lot of money involved and we know where the priorities are. Should be a slam dunk decision. Will there be resolve?
Some western nations have spoken. My suspicion is the organizers will try to move the games, if not cancel. The organizers won't survive to organize another tournament if they don't.
What kind of message is the West giving by giving stern with sanctions but that’s ok, your futbol teams can continue to have the privilege to play in important events. If major athletic events weren’t important to Russia then they would have never spent the time and money and bribing to host the Olympics, the World Cup and Champions League final.
