All Things Russia & Ukraine

[MDlaxfan76]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

[Essexfenwick]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

My God he nailed it in 2018. Trump is so far ahead of the people that populate the government

[MDlaxfan76]

"totally controlled"

Sure doesn't look that way now.

[Farfromgeneva]

I notice you didn't answer the question directly. Ok or not ok with the status you described?
Restate the perceived unanswered question & I'll give it a shot, although I hope the following answers it for you..

I think you are correct that Putin's ideal scenario is for the Ukrainians to roll over, the Zelensky government to fall, and a puppet regime is put in place ala Belarus. As brutal as necessary to put down the ensuing insurgency, with Russian support.
imho -- the best we can hope for is to minimize blood shed & hold NATO together long enough to build the resolve to do what's necessary to keep Putin from moving on the Baltic states next.

Once that's done, who's next?
Nobody, if this forces NATO to get their sh!t together.
If not, Georgia or the Baltic states could be next.

He ain't stopping until he's restored the Empire....and maybe more.
imho -- a Union of Russia, Belarus, Ukraine & demilitarization/arms limits along NATO's border with that Union could be sufficient to satisfy his Czarist aspirations.

Yes, he wants to keep pumping, so that's gotta stop. And Russia needs to be totally removed from the international monetary system.
The EUros can't & won't let either happen.

They need to totally crushed economically....which can stop when he withdraws. No puppet regime.
We can't do it alone & neither Wall St or Main St will accept what that would require

I think that'll require a well funded and supplied insurgency. Might not be quick. And so the pain for Russia won't abate quickly either.
You, HR McMaster & Amb Bill Young are the only ones I've heard who give an insurgency a chance for anything other than prolonging the bloodletting. Is it worth turning Ukraine into another Afghanistan ?

dislaxxic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 3:05 pm
old salt wrote: ↑Thu Feb 24, 2022 2:54 pm
Putin hopes to annex as much of Ukraine as he can, with limited damage & post-conflict resistance.
He wants the EUros to keep buying his gas & oil, with limited or no disruption.
...and you're NOT OK with that, right?

Whether the insurgency is successful or not depends on the Ukrainians who decide to fight it, not any American's opinions. But it will also depend on its funding and supply of weapons. The insurgency will have the ability, ala the Taliban and Pakistan, to be trained and supplied nearby.

But in no way am I suggesting it's a piece of cake, much less that the insurgency alone will be sufficient.

And I think this won't be just within Ukraine. I'd expect bombs going off in Moscow and all over Russia. All sorts of disruptions.

Of course, as I said before Putin may be able to install a brutal puppet regime and move on to the next challenge.

Unless we choke off his economy.

It all sounds good if you think you can predict what Putin's counter moves would be. I'm not sure at all what he would do, but these seem like escalations where we could trigger something far worse. Why don't we offer him a way out? The Russian areas of Ukraine and pack up and go home? He's going to take those at a minimum anyway.

Taking isn't the same as holding, and the bottomline is that aggressors can't be rewarded for being aggressive.

China is part of the perspective to come and that's why they're not condemning Putin the same way. It'll be interesting how they feel when their state owned banks get sanctioned if they do business with sanctioned Russians.

This really does have some very troubling ways it could escalate, but we really can't let the international rules mean nothing anymore. The West is toast in that scenario.

So, you may be right that at the end of the day (many days away, more likely years) Russia may hold those regions. But they will have paid a hell of a price.

Don't kid yourself that they'll stop otherwise.

... the Chinese are playing wait and see. They haven't really chosen a side yet.

Let's just say that they are waffling. It's not really in their interest to take a hard stand against territorial claims based up 'language' and military force.

So, what the West does in this instance is going to have ripple effects, and not just with China.

It's also why HW Bush was able to come down so hard, with European support, on Saddam's incursion over Kuwait. Sent a message.

Unfortunately, the power dynamics are tougher with this one, given the nuclear arsenals. But we have to take a stand nevertheless.

Otherwise it's gonna be a very chaotic world.

They just want it bloody so they can cash in their title shot against a weakened winner.

[youthathletics]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

I know a guy on fanlax like that.

[youthathletics]

Interesting article from 2013...https://carnegieeurope.eu/2013/04/16/wh ... -pub-51522

[a fan]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

My God he nailed it in 2018. Trump is so far ahead of the people that populate the government

Yeah....no he's not.

If you had to guess, who imports more cr*p from Russia...the US or Germany?

Trump "forgot" to tell you about that part, EssexFenwick. Whoops. Which is why the German delegation was smirking....the US imports more stuff than Germany does from Russia.

That was theater for guys like you....Trump knows you won't bother to think ....."hey, that bottle of Stoli on my local liquor store's shelf didn't fall from the sky...how much is the US importing from Russia? And why would we do that with Russia if it's a bad thing to trade with Russia?" .

Nice job buying Trump's BS.

[Essexfenwick]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

My God he nailed it in 2018. Trump is so far ahead of the people that populate the government

Yeah....no he's not.

If you had to guess, who imports more cr*p from Russia...the US or Germany?

Trump "forgot" to tell you about that part, EssexFenwick. Whoops. Which is why the German delegation was smirking....the US imports more stuff than Germany does from Russia.

That was theater for guys like you....Trump knows you won't bother to think ....."hey, that bottle of Stoli on my local liquor store's shelf didn't fall from the sky...how much is the US importing from Russia? And why would we do that with Russia if it's a bad thing to trade with Russia?" .

Nice job buying Trump's BS.

Sure. It’s smart for Europe to be dependent on Russia Energy to survive

You should work in DC. You are so embarrassed by the fact Trump has great instincts. Try to be rational.

[youthathletics]

Maybe the people of Russia will solve this...https://twitter.com/AVindman/status/149 ... MXr0rvIbBA

[jhu72]

The view from Israel.

[a fan]

Sure. It’s smart for Europe to be dependent on Russia Energy to survive

You should work in DC. You are so embarrassed by the fact Trump has great instincts. Try to be rational.

You mean he can use google like I can, and figure out that Germany imports stuff from Russia? Wow. that's amazing. I hear he can pee without hitting his shoes, too. Is that true?

If you're impressed, good for you. What did Trump do to fix the problem he was calling out? Right....nothing. Just like every other politician.


Yep, it's stupid that Germany is dependent on Russia for energy. Flip on the nuke plants, and that problem goes away. And you get the flip side of the problem, right? Is it wise for Russia to depend on Germany for money and trade?





We're dependent on China for any number of goods. You think that's smart? I don't. And that's a problem that's far more relevant to you and I. What have any of our leaders done to fix that?

Same as Trump, my man: zippo.

The difference between you and I is that neither Biden nor Trump have impressed me by solving these serious problems.

[Peter Brown]

Sure. It’s smart for Europe to be dependent on Russia Energy to survive

You should work in DC. You are so embarrassed by the fact Trump has great instincts. Try to be rational.

You mean he can use google like I can, and figure out that Germany imports stuff from Russia? Wow. that's amazing. I hear he can pee without hitting his shoes, too. Is that true?

If you're impressed, good for you. What did Trump do to fix the problem he was calling out? Right....nothing. Just like every other politician.


Yep, it's stupid that Germany is dependent on Russia for energy. Flip on the nuke plants, and that problem goes away.

We're dependent on China for any number of goods. You think that's smart? I don't. And that's a problem that's far more relevant to you and I. What have any of our leaders done to fix that?

Same as Trump, my man: zippo.

The difference between you and I is that neither Biden nor Trump have impressed me by solving these serious problems.

I feel like I am an honest conservative and I will defend Biden when he acts realistically and proportionately, and I feel like he has accomplished that today, for the most part. I stand behind any president of the United States, really hoping they ‘get it’ and don’t make mistakes.

That the Left would never do this for ‘my guy’ - because most Left politics is more or less all about power - is why I am on the Right not the Left.

I’ll keep pulling for Joe and his team. This situation IMO is far more dicey than the markets grasped today.

[jhu72]

Been doing some remembering of the events of 1968, today apparently so have some folks in the Czech Republic and Hungary.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trump was so soft that Putin only attacked anyone when Biden or Obama was running things.

Smart people notice actions and results. (And also notice the leader of the free world has advanced dementia).

Not so smart people spin to hide embarrassment.

... Trump was giving Putin everything he wanted, including weakening Ukraine. Child.

Putin only attacks when Biden or Obama are running things. Trump knew how to handle people and look out for US interests.

Obama said Russia was 1980s foreign policy. Biden was against George HW desert storm success and for GW bushes WMD failure.

Those men are stupid and they will never forgive Trump for showing that to the people.

2+2 = https://www.politico.com/story/2019/08/ ... ia-1689531

Your peasant mind is laughing because you believe that I believe that aid in any way would stop Russia…

[Typical Lax Dad]

Maybe the people of Russia will solve this...https://twitter.com/AVindman/status/149 ... MXr0rvIbBA

That’s a Russian Hoax.

[Farfromgeneva]

This aged well...

Boy he loved the sound of his own voice.

I know a guy on fanlax like that.

FattyTrips?

[youthathletics]

I wonder if China has carved out a deal with Russia for access to all the benefits of Ukraine: https://www.hstoday.us/subject-matter-a ... e-matters/

hey afan.....4th largest provided of Rye, maybe a Ukrainian Rye might be a hot seller in a few years.

[Essexfenwick]

Sure. It’s smart for Europe to be dependent on Russia Energy to survive

You should work in DC. You are so embarrassed by the fact Trump has great instincts. Try to be rational.

You mean he can use google like I can, and figure out that Germany imports stuff from Russia? Wow. that's amazing. I hear he can pee without hitting his shoes, too. Is that true?

If you're impressed, good for you. What did Trump do to fix the problem he was calling out? Right....nothing. Just like every other politician.


Yep, it's stupid that Germany is dependent on Russia for energy. Flip on the nuke plants, and that problem goes away.

We're dependent on China for any number of goods. You think that's smart? I don't. And that's a problem that's far more relevant to you and I. What have any of our leaders done to fix that?

Same as Trump, my man: zippo.

The difference between you and I is that neither Biden nor Trump have impressed me by solving these serious problems.

I feel like I am an honest conservative and I will defend Biden when he acts realistically and proportionately, and I feel like he has accomplished that today, for the most part. I stand behind any president of the United States, really hoping they ‘get it’ and don’t make mistakes.

That the Left would never do this for ‘my guy’ - because most Left politics is more or less all about power - is why I am on the Right not the Left.

I’ll keep pulling for Joe and his team. This situation IMO is far more dicey than the markets grasped today.

Trump put tariffs on China and honestly blamed China for the China virus.

Senator Feinstein had a Chinese spy as a driver for 20 years

Trump is so much smarter than Washington that it’s sad.

[Essexfenwick]

Serious question.

Does this mean Ukraine won’t continue paying Hunter Biden?

[jhu72]

Soon to be crow eating republican media clowns, traitors, and surrender monkeys.