January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[cradleandshoot]

you're out to lunch 6ft, so I'm going to listen to Biden right now.

White flag noted.

Biden talked more about Ukranes border than hes said about the invasion of our southern border since the crisis began.

stick to your right wing feed, 6ft...it's so rational.

AGain no refutation of the FACTS as reported by the MSM

They were refuted by others, I'm ignoring this mind numbing stupidity.

PROVE IT. They said one thing in public and exactly the opposite under oath.


I haven't put you on "ignore" as yet, but until you actually respond directly, and get your head out of your right wing feed and speak thoughts your own, there's no sense in discussing.

you prove it.

It was already refuted...pay attention.

I posted what was in the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, the Associated Press, The NY Post,and yes Fox. Where was it refuted?

So good to have you back here 6 foot. You certainly sent MD lax spiraling off into a tizzy.

You think MD is in a tizzy? What would you call 6”? Spazz?

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live ... zz/2860979

A deal at Subway…

At least 6 foot sounds like a Republican. MD lax is more concerned with social justice than he is with being a fiscal conservative. FTR, nothing wrong with being a social justice warrior. I'm still waiting for him to climb up on his soap box and spend some time being a fiscal conservative warrior. I don't read him lecture us all that much about that...

Uh sure. So you define Republican as angry thoughtless spazz then?

FTR.. I don't give a flying fig about Republicans. It is of no interest of mine to try and define them. I am pointing out that MD lax and 6 Foot both define themselves as " lifelong" Republicans. I am also pointing out how both "lifelong" Republicans have exactly nothing in common from their own perspectives about what the Republican party stands for. That begs the question.. what does the republican party stand for? Do they have any stated core beliefs that their party can allow the American voter a chance to relate to?

[Farfromgeneva]

What does Joe Manchin and Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren have in common? Not a ton. There’s two parties, of course they won’t be monolithic m, except for the whiny ones who want to think in linear, narrow and generally regressive terms-on both sides.

[Peter Brown]

you're out to lunch 6ft, so I'm going to listen to Biden right now.

White flag noted.

Biden talked more about Ukranes border than hes said about the invasion of our southern border since the crisis began.

stick to your right wing feed, 6ft...it's so rational.

AGain no refutation of the FACTS as reported by the MSM

They were refuted by others, I'm ignoring this mind numbing stupidity.

PROVE IT. They said one thing in public and exactly the opposite under oath.


I haven't put you on "ignore" as yet, but until you actually respond directly, and get your head out of your right wing feed and speak thoughts your own, there's no sense in discussing.

you prove it.

It was already refuted...pay attention.

I posted what was in the Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, the Associated Press, The NY Post,and yes Fox. Where was it refuted?

So good to have you back here 6 foot. You certainly sent MD lax spiraling off into a tizzy.

You think MD is in a tizzy? What would you call 6”? Spazz?

https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live ... zz/2860979

A deal at Subway…

At least 6 foot sounds like a Republican. MD lax is more concerned with social justice than he is with being a fiscal conservative. FTR, nothing wrong with being a social justice warrior. I'm still waiting for him to climb up on his soap box and spend some time being a fiscal conservative warrior. I don't read him lecture us all that much about that...

Uh sure. So you define Republican as angry thoughtless spazz then?

FTR.. I don't give a flying fig about Republicans. It is of no interest of mine to try and define them. I am pointing out that MD lax and 6 Foot both define themselves as " lifelong" Republicans. I am also pointing out how both "lifelong" Republicans have exactly nothing in common from their own perspectives about what the Republican party stands for. That begs the question.. what does the republican party stand for? Do they have any stated core beliefs that their party can allow the American voter a chance to relate to?

1. Government is not the solution to domestic social problems.

This is pretty universal among Republicans. Government should not be providing solutions to problems that confront people (like health issues or paying bills). Those problems should be solved by the people themselves. A Republican would say that relying on the government to solve problems is a crutch that makes people lazy and feel entitled to receive things without working for them.

2. State control should trump federal control.

A Republican believes that decision-making should be as local as possible and if there's something important that needs solving on a social level, the state's decision should trump any federal decisions. The federal government should not have control over state decisions, generally speaking.

3. The free market should control all financial decisions.

The free market is the perfect decision-maker. There need be no interference in the market because ultimately, the needs and desires of manufacturers and consumers will resolve themselves correctly in an unregulated market.

4. Religion and the belief in God is vital to a strong nation.

Republicans are generally accepting only of the Judeo-Christian belief system. For most Republicans, religion is absolutely vital in their political beliefs and the two cannot be separated. Therefore, separation of church and state is not that important to them. In fact, they believe that much of what is wrong has been caused by too much secularism.

5. Lower taxes.

No matter what the situation, Republicans believe in lowering taxes across the board, for both individuals and businesses. As far as they are concerned, the more money that stays in the hands of the private sector, the better. They think people and businesses should be able to determine how and when they spend their money.

6. A strong military.

Republicans favor a strong military . . . and using that military. Republicans are usually hawks where Democrats are doves. The strong military stance demonstrates how Republicans use the power of the federal government, though they believe that a strong military spurs innovation and directs tax dollars as investments into businesses they support.

7. Privatize everything.

8. Gun control violates the 2nd Amendment.

Republicans support the position of the NRA and do not believe in gun control. They believe in the right of all citizens to own guns as detailed in the Constitution.

9. Global warming is not a thing.

Generally, Republicans question the conclusions scientists have come to regarding global warming. At best, they believe that the effects of global warming have been overstated and that regulating emissions should not be done; at worst, they believe global warming is a hoax.

[MDlaxfan76]

sheesh, according to that list, I can't be a Republican because I actually believe in Constitutional democracy and the rule of law.

Most of that list does reflect the Trumpist backer's lack of nuance, most everything stated in extreme, absolutist terms. Often stupidly so, frequently quite in opposition to the Constitution.

That was not the bulk of the GOP pre 2016 and certainly not even close pre 2010.

Then again, we got to see what the Trump GOP really believes in with the 2020 Platform...oops, 'follow Trump'.

[Farfromgeneva]

Didn't even think that was worth bothering to respond to.

[SCLaxAttack]

Didn't even think that was worth bothering to respond to.

Well, if anyone doubted who the troll was before, he typed out who he is and has removed all doubt.

Numbskullery, to be kind.

[dislaxxic]

Numbskullery, to be kind.

MAGAts

..

[runrussellrun]

1. Government is not the solution to domestic social problems.

This is pretty universal among Republicans. Government should not be providing solutions to problems that confront people (like health issues or paying bills). Those problems should be solved by the people themselves. A Republican would say that relying on the government to solve problems is a crutch that makes people lazy and feel entitled to receive things without working for them.

2. State control should trump federal control.

A Republican believes that decision-making should be as local as possible and if there's something important that needs solving on a social level, the state's decision should trump any federal decisions. The federal government should not have control over state decisions, generally speaking.

3. The free market should control all financial decisions.

The free market is the perfect decision-maker. There need be no interference in the market because ultimately, the needs and desires of manufacturers and consumers will resolve themselves correctly in an unregulated market.

4. Religion and the belief in God is vital to a strong nation.

Republicans are generally accepting only of the Judeo-Christian belief system. For most Republicans, religion is absolutely vital in their political beliefs and the two cannot be separated. Therefore, separation of church and state is not that important to them. In fact, they believe that much of what is wrong has been caused by too much secularism.

5. Lower taxes.

No matter what the situation, Republicans believe in lowering taxes across the board, for both individuals and businesses. As far as they are concerned, the more money that stays in the hands of the private sector, the better. They think people and businesses should be able to determine how and when they spend their money.

6. A strong military.

Republicans favor a strong military . . . and using that military. Republicans are usually hawks where Democrats are doves. The strong military stance demonstrates how Republicans use the power of the federal government, though they believe that a strong military spurs innovation and directs tax dollars as investments into businesses they support.

7. Privatize everything.

8. Gun control violates the 2nd Amendment.

Republicans support the position of the NRA and do not believe in gun control. They believe in the right of all citizens to own guns as detailed in the Constitution.

9. Global warming is not a thing.

Generally, Republicans question the conclusions scientists have come to regarding global warming. At best, they believe that the effects of global warming have been overstated and that regulating emissions should not be done; at worst, they believe global warming is a hoax.

what are your other accounts, b/c there is no way you take these to be a political "platform".....no way. and no way that you are real.

gun control does NOT violate the 2nd amendment..........the "militia" part IS the part that gun advocates should focus on. Bluff the fascists that want our guns. you are, a gun, owner, right, petey ? seems we circled this idiotic wagon before.

Birding, and killing them, was fantastic on the North Shore...season ended last week. Nothing beats the sport of a 870.

like a screen play....you should write down your bio so you when you get your gun proud on.......you'll be CONsistent.

in other words, very strange to be such a 2nd amendment ignorant, and not owning a firearm, of any kind , yourself.

[seacoaster]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1m5ZK0h ... ipGQH/view

[Brooklyn]

Petey,



1. Government is not the solution to domestic social problems.

This is pretty universal among Republicans. Government should not be providing solutions to problems that confront people (like health issues or paying bills). Those problems should be solved by the people themselves. A Republican would say that relying on the government to solve problems is a crutch that makes people lazy and feel entitled to receive things without working for them.

But somehow it is the exclusive solution to all foreign problems. This is why they love the military industrial complex so much.

If they only had some sense of logic they would apply their "principles" on a uniform basis. If government cannot solve domestic problems, then it follows logically that it cannot solve foreign problems as well. On that basis, we need to dissolve the military industrial complex, abrogate NATO treaty, and leave the UN.

But then, whoever said that right wingers have any "logic"?

[RedFromMI]

It gets better - we now can call January 6 sedition because we have a guilty plea to just that (emptywheel thread commenting on a plea today):

Now listening to the Joshua James plea. He's an Oath Keeper who was checking in with news from the Willard Hotel on Jan 6, and then talked w/Stewart Rhodes about sedition afterwards.

Judge Amit Mehta clearly already noted details from earlier plea docs he saw.

James went through 11th year. But has a GED.

He's a veteran.

His voice is not AT ALL what I imagined it would be.

He'll plead to seditious conspiracy (!!!!!!) and obstruction.

WOW.

Mehta makes sure he's not hesitating.

This is big sh!t.

This guy--who's pleading to sedition?--he had direct contact with Roger Stone the morning of the insurrection.

Here's a post on how James was calling in to report on Stone throughout that morning.

https://t.co/i1U2Mk9r4P

Some contention from James' lawyer to make sure she can be there when he is questioned.

This is a CONTENTIOUS plea agreement.

For sedition.

This is still just a 20 year sentence--just like obstruction.

But ... it's sedition. Not obstruction.

Even Mehta is stumbling a bit over seditious conspiracy.

He doesn't stumble much.

James is starting with an offense level of 32.

Same guidelines on obstruction side. 29.

Estimated guidelines are 87-108 months.

Still not bad, for sedition.

James pauses before he agrees that USG can ask for upward departure.

Now ... cooperation.

He flipped.

HELLO ROGER STONE???

Again, James is a veteran. Big beefy guy. Shoulders like a brick wall. His voice is higher than I imagined. But many of his answers are really strained, even ignoring the pauses.

This is James.



James again seems to pause before talking about planning ahead (at Caldwell's farm).

This statement of offense is, this far, VERY Rhodes heavy.

"Report to the White House grounds and use force against anyone trying to remove Trump from the White House."

He clears his throat before saying, "yes sir."

There was a pause to review that at least one motive James had was to prevent certification of Biden's election.

His attorney explained there were other motives.

In perhaps most vocal response, James says, "yes sir, it was" him who screamed at a cop that the Capitol was his house.

Another long break. His lawyer explains that he did not walk into the Capitol intending to assault a cop.

James objects to some part of statement of facts (seemingly going right to obstruction).

"Court's indulgence" his attorney says, as they go off the record.

Someone, I think AUSA, is explaining that the three parts of obstruction--hinder, delay, prevent--were the issue.

The issue is an and/or issue about motive.

James asks for a minute about another allocution--intending to affect USG.

This one is important bc it could be basis of terrorism enhancement down the road.

His attorney explains he intended to influence, not retaliate. "That's what he's getting tripped up on."

Now we're reviewing how, after the fact, Stewie advised him to alter his physical identity.

Again, this allocution is focused on shoring up the case against Rhodes.

Whatever he says about Stone is gravy.

Side note here: Judge Mehta, who is presiding over this, is the guy who said it was plausible James and other Oath Keepers entered into a conspiracy with Donald Trump.

James pauses--maybe 4 seconds--before he says "yes sir," he still wants to plead guilty.

Again, a pause before "yes sir," he is in fact guilty.

Done: he pleads to seditious conspiracy and obstruction.

Jan 6 can officially be called sedition.

For those asking, no, he's out on home confinement.

But USG would have made him testify before this plea. So his testimony has been given to the grand jury.

AUSA makes sure that the record records this is seditious conspiracy.

Tl;dr:

We have our first seditious conspiracy conviction in -- maybe a century? @BarbMcQuade

And James, a veteran, is trying to cooperate his way out of that, at least against Stewart Rhodes and presumably against Roger Stone, with whom James was with the morning of Jan 6.

The most important detail from his statement of offense, as I heard it, is they had a plan to surround the White House, with arms, to ensure no one got to Trump.

[Brooklyn]

Petey,


2. State control should trump federal control.

Do some study on the US Constitution and the legal history behind the creation of it Supremacy Clause.

3. The free market should control all financial decisions

Our Founding Fathers condemned corporations for their economic abuses. See for example:

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/ ... ns.156547/

There are many online writings which confirm this.

4. Religion and the belief in God is vital to a strong nation.

Our Founders believed in disestablishment because of religious abuses. They saw the ravages of the Inquisition and the intolerance that took place over the Reformation, Counter Reformation, and wars in England.

5. Lower taxes.

Our Founders did not believe in income taxes. But it was Republican Nelson Aldrich who fought for and got the Income Tax Amendment. Earlier it was Abraham Lincoln who imposed a nationwide income tax. This so that they could finance war. Eliminate the income tax and the military industrial complex would be bankrupted. This is something I called for REPEATEDLY on this and on the old LP forum.

6. A strong military.

Compare with item 4 and strong religious belief. Those who have read the Bible know it teaches that a nation that practices its teaching has no need of a standing army. Psalms 81:13-15. Since the USA claims to be such good Christians we can easily dissolve the Pentagon and its puppet string masters in the military industrial complex without any fear.

7. Privatize everything.

As I have posted previously read the letters of George Washington in which he advocated the government building up of the Potomac basin. Then read Alexander Hamilton's Report On Manufacturers which also called for building up the nation's infrastructure with government money.

8. Gun control violates the 2nd Amendment.

Gun restriction, not control, does. I agree that people have a right to use weapons to defend themselves from government. This is why I call for the re-arming of the Black Panthers and other groups.

9. Global warming is not a thing.

That is an issue that remains under dispute. But even ultra right wing George Bush believes in it.



Republicans have strong opinions and will tell every lie imaginable to defend their ideas. But all too often they lack logic, common sense, and consistency of principle in their teachings.

[Brooklyn]

RedFromMI,

we now can call January 6 sedition because we have a guilty plea to just that

Seditious traitor croaks himself rather than face jail time for his crimes against America:


https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html

Matthew Perna, a Capitol rioter who was awaiting sentencing, died by suicide, according to the Mercer County (Pa.) Coroner’s office.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette first reported the news.

Perna, of Sharpsville, about 70 miles north of Pittsburgh, pleaded guilty to charges of witness tampering, entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds and two counts of disorderly conduct in late 2021 for his role in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol building, which occurred after the “Stop The Steal” rally, which Perna also took part in.

.
Perna, 37, died on Feb. 25, according to an obituary written by his family, on the one-year anniversary of his indictment. His family blamed the prosecution process for contributing to his death.

After the FBI posted images of Perna in an attempt to identify him, a person who knew him informed investigators that Perna supported Trump and the QAnon conspiracy theory on social media.

According to his family, Perna turned himself into the FBI when he learned authorities were searching for him and he pleaded guilty in December to all the charges levied against him. His sentencing had been set for April 1.




I have very little tolerance for treason. While a life for a life as a sentence was warranted because police officers were killed on January 6, it would have been more just if it was done by the federal authorities to serve as a lesson for disloyal elements like him.

[dislaxxic]

In addition to looking at a series of events that have now been legally described as SEDITION,

Trump Broke Laws in Effort to Overturn 2020 Election, Jan. 6 Committee Says in it's legal brief which opposes John Eastmen's claim of executive privilege.

More good news is, even IF the Republic party manages to hoodwink the American electorate and take back control of the House in the fall...it is the Biden DoJ that will have MORE than enough to carry the J6 committee's work (and it's own) forward to potential indictments.

..

[seacoaster]

In addition to looking at a series of events that have now been legally described as SEDITION,

Trump Broke Laws in Effort to Overturn 2020 Election, Jan. 6 Committee Says in it's legal brief which opposes John Eastmen's claim of executive privilege.

More good news is, even IF the Republic party manages to hoodwink the American electorate and take back control of the House in the fall...it is the Biden DoJ that will have MORE than enough to carry the J6 committee's work (and it's own) forward to potential indictments.

..

Here is the full brief and exhibits.

https://january6th.house.gov/sites/demo ... ted%29.pdf

Scroll through the exhibits, which begin on page 77 or so with Eastman's deposition transcript. He takes the Fifth innumerable times.

The next exhibit is Richard Donoghue's deposition; no Fifth here, just testimony on how he and others informed the President that his claims of election and vote irregularities were investigated and were totally unfounded, and that Trump was pressuring the DOJ to tell the public otherwise. Take a look at Donoghue's testimony on page 137 of the PDF, 125 of his deposition.

[Kismet]

In addition to looking at a series of events that have now been legally described as SEDITION,

Trump Broke Laws in Effort to Overturn 2020 Election, Jan. 6 Committee Says in it's legal brief which opposes John Eastmen's claim of executive privilege.

More good news is, even IF the Republic party manages to hoodwink the American electorate and take back control of the House in the fall...it is the Biden DoJ that will have MORE than enough to carry the J6 committee's work (and it's own) forward to potential indictments.

..

Yep. Oath Keeper Joshua James is 1st to plead guilty to seditious conspiracy for Jan. 6, will cooperate with prosecutors against Stewart Rhodes and others.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/oath-ke ... d=83212947

Buckle up.

[Peter Brown]

RedFromMI,

we now can call January 6 sedition because we have a guilty plea to just that

Seditious traitor croaks himself rather than face jail time for his crimes against America:


https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html

Matthew Perna, a Capitol rioter who was awaiting sentencing, died by suicide, according to the Mercer County (Pa.) Coroner’s office.

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette first reported the news.

Perna, of Sharpsville, about 70 miles north of Pittsburgh, pleaded guilty to charges of witness tampering, entering and remaining in a restricted building or grounds and two counts of disorderly conduct in late 2021 for his role in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol building, which occurred after the “Stop The Steal” rally, which Perna also took part in.

.
Perna, 37, died on Feb. 25, according to an obituary written by his family, on the one-year anniversary of his indictment. His family blamed the prosecution process for contributing to his death.

After the FBI posted images of Perna in an attempt to identify him, a person who knew him informed investigators that Perna supported Trump and the QAnon conspiracy theory on social media.

According to his family, Perna turned himself into the FBI when he learned authorities were searching for him and he pleaded guilty in December to all the charges levied against him. His sentencing had been set for April 1.

I have very little tolerance for treason. While a life for a life as a sentence was warranted because police officers were killed on January 6, it would have been more just if it was done by the federal authorities to serve as a lesson for disloyal elements like him.

Only one person was ‘killed’ on January 6; her name was Ashli Babbitt.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 128040002/


The rest of your post puts to rest any lingering thoughts that you have truly liberal ideals. You don’t. Obviously.

[dislaxxic]

Marcy dissects the seditious conspiracy charging documentation...

WHAT SEDITION LOOKS LIKE: LOTS OF STEWART RHODES, BUT KEY UNCHARGED OTHERS

..

[Peter Brown]

Marcy dissects the seditious conspiracy charging documentation...

WHAT SEDITION LOOKS LIKE: LOTS OF STEWART RHODES, BUT KEY UNCHARGED OTHERS

..

You’ve got him now!!!!! This is it, the final nail in the coffin. Get the perp walk ready for orange daddy, folks!!!! Composed, sane Marcy going all in here.

[Peter Brown]

Marcy dissects the seditious conspiracy charging documentation...

WHAT SEDITION LOOKS LIKE: LOTS OF STEWART RHODES, BUT KEY UNCHARGED OTHERS

..

You’ve got him now!!!!! This is it, the final nail in the coffin. Get the perp walk ready for orange daddy, folks!!!!

Composed, sane Marcy going all in here to her peeps. She teases these folks so easily.