All things CoronaVirus

[RedFromMI]

The facts are that if the RW media instead of staking out some sort of "opposition" case regarding vaccines had promoted them as the answer to a return to a more normal life more rapidly we would not be having this kind of death toll.

There is no contrary data to that...

Do you have so little faith in individuals that you assume we all mindlessly do what media tells us to do?

The resistance to the COVID vaccine and the new RW resistance to all vaccines has most certainly been affected by the RW media. Make the issue of getting vaccinated "problematic" because there are too many "questions" about them is the major contribution, as well as making those refusing to consider getting vaccinated "heroes" of a new resistance is the big effect.

But certain individuals are certainly mindlessly following that lead - just like they mindlessly follow the "Big Lie" about the election. Not everyone is affected, but enough are...

I agree and disagree with your post. Sure some folks don’t think enough and are easily led, but those numbers are small IMO. That’s true of the right and left. Some people on the left think Rachel Maddow is Jesus Christ.

I’d disagree in your contention that RW media asks too many questions and hero’s are being created. I want questions and skepticism, early and often. Especially when it’s the state demanding fealty.

The easily led numbers are greater than you can imagine, or you are purposely downplaying them. Most of the questions and skepticism in the RW media are based on either outright lies or deliberate shading of the truth to make problems that are minimal seem overwhelming. If the media cannot be trusted to actually provide true information, with relative issues of risk/reward clearly specified you get the problems we have.

[jhu72]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them get a vaccine.

Wonder how many deaths since Biden took office are unvaccinated vs. vaccinated. Anyone got that handy? Or just tweets?

Back in May, ~99% of all deaths were unvaccinated https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 54f5d5e187

Wasn't sure what the current info is...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

If I read this correctly, and subject to the limitations they enumerate, looks like, since April, unvaccinated had about 2 and half times as many cases (given rate of vaccinations, that would suggest about 3 times more likely to have been infected enough to be counted) and had more than 4X the number of deaths.

So, yeah, more than 80% of all deaths have been among unvaccinated since April. It gets worse when looking at age, with nearly 14X greater likelihood of death if unvaccinated.

This may well still be understated further due to this being before Omicron wave.

But bottomline, way, way lower risk if vaccinated and boosted on time.

And well over 80% of the deaths since the Biden Admin took over have been those who refused to be vaccinated.

Don't want to blame Trump for that 80%? ok, blame right wing media and other anti-vaccine and anti-mandate knuckleheads promoting non-adherence to public health advice. And blame the knuckleheads who spread the disease cavalierly to those who had bad outcomes.

What predictable anti-Fox nonsense, untethered to real numbers, and frankly, the very definition of misinformation.

Is ‘right wing media’ responsible for the disproportionately high percentage of black and Latino Covid deaths?

Adjusting for population, death rates for Black and Hispanic people are higher than those of white and Asian people in every age group, with Black people experiencing the highest death rates in every case. Death rates for Asian populations are generally between those of white and Hispanic populations.

A highly-cited CDC report from April examined data on a sample of 580 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 and found that only 45% of the individuals for whom demographic data was available were white, though white people made up 59% of the surrounding community. At the same time, 33% of hospitalized patients in the sample were Black, compared to 18% in the community, and 8% were Hispanic, compared to 14% in the community. The report suggested that Blacks are overrepresented among hospitalized patients.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-dea ... nic-white/

If you have proof these folks are listening to and taking cues from ‘right wing media’, let’s see it.

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

[youthathletics]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

[jhu72]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

[SCLaxAttack]

And income levels. And by default, the racial inequality of income opportunity.

https://rollcall.com/2021/10/27/income- ... ion-rates/

[youthathletics]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

[MDlaxfan76]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them get a vaccine.

Wonder how many deaths since Biden took office are unvaccinated vs. vaccinated. Anyone got that handy? Or just tweets?

Back in May, ~99% of all deaths were unvaccinated https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus- ... 54f5d5e187

Wasn't sure what the current info is...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm

If I read this correctly, and subject to the limitations they enumerate, looks like, since April, unvaccinated had about 2 and half times as many cases (given rate of vaccinations, that would suggest about 3 times more likely to have been infected enough to be counted) and had more than 4X the number of deaths.

So, yeah, more than 80% of all deaths have been among unvaccinated since April. It gets worse when looking at age, with nearly 14X greater likelihood of death if unvaccinated.

This may well still be understated further due to this being before Omicron wave.

But bottomline, way, way lower risk if vaccinated and boosted on time.

And well over 80% of the deaths since the Biden Admin took over have been those who refused to be vaccinated.

Don't want to blame Trump for that 80%? ok, blame right wing media and other anti-vaccine and anti-mandate knuckleheads promoting non-adherence to public health advice. And blame the knuckleheads who spread the disease cavalierly to those who had bad outcomes.

What predictable anti-Fox nonsense, untethered to real numbers, and frankly, the very definition of misinformation.

Is ‘right wing media’ responsible for the disproportionately high percentage of black and Latino Covid deaths?

Adjusting for population, death rates for Black and Hispanic people are higher than those of white and Asian people in every age group, with Black people experiencing the highest death rates in every case. Death rates for Asian populations are generally between those of white and Hispanic populations.

A highly-cited CDC report from April examined data on a sample of 580 patients hospitalized with COVID-19 and found that only 45% of the individuals for whom demographic data was available were white, though white people made up 59% of the surrounding community. At the same time, 33% of hospitalized patients in the sample were Black, compared to 18% in the community, and 8% were Hispanic, compared to 14% in the community. The report suggested that Blacks are overrepresented among hospitalized patients.

https://usafacts.org/articles/covid-dea ... nic-white/

If you have proof these folks are listening to and taking cues from ‘right wing media’, let’s see it.

Yes, poverty does matter a lot.

But that analysis was from data pre April so didn't include the full effects of vaccine resistance in the MAGA/QAnon, etc crowd versus more generally. The data is overwhelmed by the period in which vaccines weren't available, and those who are poor and had to go work in jobs that required lots of public contact.

Since then, there has emerged a rather remarkable correlation with voting preferences and incidence of hospitalization and death, directly related to vaccine take-up rates. As the study April-December has indicated, death rates are way, way higher for the unvaccinated than the fully vaccinated and boosted.

If you are telling me that Fox and other right wing media hasn't been fomenting distrust of public health officials and promoting resistance to any government or even private insistence on following public health counsel, I dunno what to tell you...look harder.

In contrast, the MSM and certainly the current Admin pretty much top to bottom have been urging following the public health counsel.

Stark contrast, so it's no surprise that we see such stark differences in death rates in states with high proportions of right wing folks and governors and legislators who have made it harder, not easier, for even private interests to protect their employees and customers, and surrounding communities.

[MDlaxfan76]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

They "can" but the friction to doing so is greater. Time off from work or family obligations matters for poor folks in ways that the middle and wealthy have difficulty appreciating. And there's a very strong correlation as well with underlying health conditions that increase risk, heart disease and diabetes, driven by miserable access to affordable healthy food.

It happens that blacks and hispanics are disproportionately represented in poverty situations. And that's another discussion.

You'll see far less differentiation in Covid impact between wealthy, well educated blacks and hispanics and their white or asian counterparts with the same characteristics. For instance, in those red states, the wealthy white right-leaning population often lives in cloistered communities and have comparable vaccination rates as do whites with differing politics. So, they're doing just fine...it's the less educated and less well off whites that are getting crushed by their refusal to be vaccinated.

[jhu72]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

[Peter Brown]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

[MDlaxfan76]

Yup, post data that is demonstrably misrepresentative of the question (data prior to widely available vaccines) and ignore the various factors that make the poor of any ethnicity more vulnerable, and instead pretend that it's all just a piece of cake...par for the course from those whose only interest is partisan trolling.

Bad faith.

[jhu72]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

[MDlaxfan76]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

That would indeed be a very interesting analysis...where do vaccine pop-ups and vans get placed relative to poverty in red states? And is there also a difference by race amongst those high poverty regions?

We know that red states typically receive disproportionately more federal support for health care than do blue states, which are much more self-sufficient, so it would not be a surprise to see such differential in poor counties relative to wealthier ones...and if it tracks any other public resource in those states, race would be a factor as well.

[jhu72]

... you probably recall that DeathSantis placed Florida's first state run vaccination station in a gated community full of his friends. How's that for access?

[Typical Lax Dad]

I wonder why the guy quoted would want folks to not wear a mask?

https://www.daytondailynews.com/local/f ... utType=amp

[a fan]

What predictable anti-Fox nonsense, untethered to real numbers, and frankly, the very definition of misinformation.

Is ‘right wing media’ responsible for the disproportionately high percentage of black and Latino Covid deaths?

Thinking is hard.

Pete.....is this site a left or right wing media site?

It's neither. Yet we have you here, spewing right wing talking points on a daily basis.

Same thing happens everywhere on the internet, Pete. Twitter isn't left or right. Facebook isn't left or right. Reddit.

Or how about the comment section for the Denver Post?


Ever hear the term "it went viral"? That.

The disinformation starts with right wing sites......and I'm tired of people pretending like that's not where it's coming from.

But the disinformation goes in all directions, to all sites.

I find it hilarious that I have to explain how social media works to people on a social media site.

[Typical Lax Dad]

What predictable anti-Fox nonsense, untethered to real numbers, and frankly, the very definition of misinformation.

Is ‘right wing media’ responsible for the disproportionately high percentage of black and Latino Covid deaths?

Thinking is hard.

Pete.....is this site a left or right wing media site?

It's neither. Yet we have you here, spewing right wing talking points on a daily basis.

Same thing happens everywhere on the internet, Pete. Twitter isn't left or right. Facebook isn't left or right. Reddit.

Or how about the comment section for the Denver Post?


Ever hear the term "it went viral"? That.

The disinformation starts with right wing sites......and I'm tired of people pretending like that's not where it's coming from.

But the disinformation goes in all directions, to all sites.

I find it hilarious that I have to explain how social media works to people on a social media site.

Media doesn’t influence anyone. Two friends asked if I had heard about the Johns Hopkins study and the fact that we did all this stuff for nothing……one banker and one electrician…..must have each been doing their own independent research.

[wgdsr]

months ago? i told you why i jumped in. maybe review posts from the last 24 hours or so?
i saw something that doesn't correlate to that narrative. you insist it does, and that susie in darien or boulder jumps on red twitter or facebook just for this advice.

What's "red twitter"?

I think that none of us are immune from the media we consume. And the key attribute of "some guy on the internet" is that you don't know who is posting, what their angle is (in any), what their political bent is, or even what country they are posting from....

and... again... you seem to be confirming your stance on that above yet again. my convo here was -- even if and when this info is sourced more frequently from one side

The misinformation comes from everywhere. The crazy conversations I can share just from my facebook feeds is bananas....and even then, I only know SOME of the people commenting in real life. The others could be Russian bots, for all I know.

There is no left-right-center on most websites, wgdsr....you have no clue who is posting on, say, reddit.

my novice read on aap (which isn't to be trusted as to how each physician deals with their patients)? looks boilerplate.

It is. That's because their members agree. If they were on the fence? No way that they'd make a statement like that without public pushback. Maybe pushback is forthcoming.....

i don't think it's absurd for me to be bewildered how anyone let alone us knows how docs are advising individual patients. my achilles, fwiw, is when peeps throw out things like 100%, we know, etc.

Yep, and you're right to be like that. But it makes conversations here tedious if you keep adding in caveats to posts. I'll try and do better, and find a middle ground on that point.

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

that crazy conclusion begs the next inference -- they never cared about those things to begin with. they were scared for themselves, and so got vaccinated.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

[a fan]

didn't post to the first reply to this, so will to the 2nd/facsimile. you have > than 50% of blue america not vaccinating their kids bc they are unwittingly reading right wing disinformation. fine. that's a large chunk of america that hasn't made a choice like that or been "hoodwinked" prior, but there's no way for either of us to prove or disprove that. and we'll never agree.

I'd take the disagreement a lot better if you could share what you think has led to these reduced numbers. "I don't know" is....not much of a answer, and ignores very obvious realities, imho.

And yes, getting pounded with disinformation for two years straight, 24/7 is going to change peoples minds, regardless of political bent. This, too, seems obvious to me.

as long as we're speculating, i'll go with it's a much more likely scenario that a larger factor is they're making the decision(s) based on their little universe and not for the saving of hospital space, overworked healthcare professionals, economy or other people's grandmas. as has been the running theme here. they are simply proving they don't care nearly as much about those things as little johnny and jane.

Yes. But where did this attitude come from? The Rural Counties in Colorado were hit HARD by Covid over the last two years. Everyone knows someone who died from Covid. And these rural Americans were ALWAYS about working together for their tiny communities.......much more so than city folk.

So I ask again: what moved them away from this sense of small town community? As I said....30 years ago? These rural communities would be having vaccination drives at the local HS, with the football team and the cheerleaders serving coffee and donuts. Something led to a drastic change in this behavior, and community-mindedness. For me, the source of this change is obvious. You don't need data. You just need to actually talk with these people.

circling back to what was the beginning of this discussion... this is probably your true mandate number in popularity. if we made everyone have to get it, and not just people at a company with more than 100 employees? dealbreaker.

Can you rephrase this paragraph. I don't understand it.

[youthathletics]

Break whites out based on red state and blue state (2021), and you will find RED STATE WHITES per capita exceed Black and Hispanic numbers per capita nationally. Low vax rates vs high vax rates.

So what you are saying is that unvaccinated Blacks and Hispanics are damned near equally as dumb as red state unvaccinated. Wow...didnt think you'd go there.

Your words, not mine.

Blacks and Hispanics have greater access problems than whites. Minority numbers reflect the access problem as well as generally poorer initial health and any hesitancy. Whites have fewer excuses by comparison.

Help us understand why a black person can not make it to their pharmacy, CVS, Walmart, Walgreens, local hospital, local supermarket, etc to get a free vaccination?

...

If you want the vaxx, anyone can get it.

Most cities have mobile Covid vaxx clinics


BALTIMORE —

A new mobile COVID-19 vaccine clinic will travel to get the shots to Baltimore's older residents, city and health leaders announced Monday.

Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott and Health Commissioner Dr. Letitia Dzirasa joined partners from MedStar Health, Lifebridge Health, Johns Hopkins Medicine and the Johns Hopkins School of Nursing to announce a mobile vaccination and outreach strategy targeting older adults in Baltimore City.

“We are cautiously optimistic about where we stand,” Scott said.

Scott said continuing declines in the city's coronavirus positivity rate are promising but that the vaccine effort will be key.

The partnership is set to provide mobile vaccine clinics to the communities that need help the most.

“This includes taking special care to make sure that older adults in our Black and brown communities, who are most susceptible to the virus and the least likely to have access to the internet and transportation, can be vaccinated,” Scott said.


https://www.wbaltv.com/article/covid-19 ... e/35450847

... no one said that government (at least in blue states) is not attempting to address access issues. I wonder what those access issues look like in blue compared to red states.

So your way of arguing that blacks and hispanics do not have access to cv-19 shots is a laughing emoji, that certainly seems like you put your foot in your own mouth.

And then your baltimore partner in crime tries to argue there are other extenuating circumstances with those races about receiving a CV-19 vaccine, and yet, not also mention in the same breath about the poor mouth breathing rednecks who also have health issues...well, that is just plain silliness. And frankly shows an elitism beyond reproach, while acting like you care for blacks and hispanics but of course not rednecks. Almost sounds like you making up excuses for them to not get a free vaccine while they are out grocery shopping...oh wait, they probably dont know how to buy groceries or have the time because they work night. You guys must really think they are incapable to making their own decisions. WOW!

Using the logic from you two, it makes you wonder where all those black and hispanic kids are that do not have time to get vaccines for the kids to attend school.

It would be much simpler if you just said...."they dont trust the damned gov't", which is really no different than the red state fox knuckleheads.