Duke

[Dr. Tact]

Their out of conference scheduling is flat out embarrassing. The fact that they get away with it in the polls is how dumb these polls actually are. All stats are not created equal, and in this case running up scores on Elon, Gardner Webb, W&M, wofford and east carolina is verging on fraud. And by no means do I imply any disrespect on those programs individually, only in the sense of Dukes aggregate out of conference scheduling.

Poster before (Lax101 ) referenced Duke Stat padding....The name of the game offensively in women's lax is scoring. It doesn't matter who you score goals against....blow out wins - doesn't matter. If that were the case we wouldn't be lauding North for breaking the record when @20 of these goals came from garbage time/blowout games. Nobody cares how you score - just that you score. Period.

I didn't see the Elon game, but looking at the stats from that game, the starters were scoring until the 4th quarter....Now if it is 17-4 at halftime, why would you keep some of your starters (#4) in the game in the 3rd? That is just asking for criticism and potential injury.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Their out of conference scheduling is flat out embarrassing. The fact that they get away with it in the polls is how dumb these polls actually are. All stats are not created equal, and in this case running up scores on Elon, Gardner Webb, W&M, wofford and east carolina is verging on fraud. And by no means do I imply any disrespect on those programs individually, only in the sense of Dukes aggregate out of conference scheduling.

In the end none of this stuff matters. The polls mean nothing. Anyone will tell you that. Sheehan Stanwick Burch said it straight out during an NCAA quarterfinal broadcast a few years back. The only thing that helps a team get an at-large bid into the NCAA's is RPI and SOS. And all the Flakey Puff (anyone else remember that pastry?) OOC wins don't count for jack. In fact, it detracts from their final RPI/SOS number so scheduling those games has the damage done included and only ends up hurting their chances ultimately. They're not getting away with anything--trust me.

[hmmm]

Their out of conference scheduling is flat out embarrassing. The fact that they get away with it in the polls is how dumb these polls actually are. All stats are not created equal, and in this case running up scores on Elon, Gardner Webb, W&M, wofford and east carolina is verging on fraud. And by no means do I imply any disrespect on those programs individually, only in the sense of Dukes aggregate out of conference scheduling.

In the end none of this stuff matters. The polls mean nothing. Anyone will tell you that. Sheehan Stanwick Burch said it straight out during an NCAA quarterfinal broadcast a few years back. The only thing that helps a team get an at-large bid into the NCAA's is RPI and SOS. And all the Flakey Puff (anyone else remember that pastry?) OOC wins don't count for jack. In fact, it detracts from their final RPI/SOS number so scheduling those games has the damage done included and only ends up hurting their chances ultimately. They're not getting away with anything--trust me.

I don't buy that for a second. An ACC team with a 12-5 record will get in the tournament. Even if their only ACC wins are VT, Louisville and Pitt. They know this and it's why they schedule the way they do. Back prior to 2019 they used to schedule games with NW, Stanford, etc. They lost those games and didn't make the tournament so they've changed their scheduling to get the wins up knowing the ACC is a grind.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Their out of conference scheduling is flat out embarrassing. The fact that they get away with it in the polls is how dumb these polls actually are. All stats are not created equal, and in this case running up scores on Elon, Gardner Webb, W&M, wofford and east carolina is verging on fraud. And by no means do I imply any disrespect on those programs individually, only in the sense of Dukes aggregate out of conference scheduling.

In the end none of this stuff matters. The polls mean nothing. Anyone will tell you that. Sheehan Stanwick Burch said it straight out during an NCAA quarterfinal broadcast a few years back. The only thing that helps a team get an at-large bid into the NCAA's is RPI and SOS. And all the Flakey Puff (anyone else remember that pastry?) OOC wins don't count for jack. In fact, it detracts from their final RPI/SOS number so scheduling those games has the damage done included and only ends up hurting their chances ultimately. They're not getting away with anything--trust me.

I don't buy that for a second. An ACC team with a 12-5 record will get in the tournament. Even if their only ACC wins are VT, Louisville and Pitt. They know this and it's why they schedule the way they do. Back prior to 2019 they used to schedule games with NW, Stanford, etc. They lost those games and didn't make the tournament so they've changed their scheduling to get the wins up knowing the ACC is a grind.

Maybe so, but it still won't help them do anything in the postseason. They won't be battle tested enough. The only reason they got as far as they did last year was because of Gabby Rosenzweig and all she brought to the team.

[Dr. Tact]

Their out of conference scheduling is flat out embarrassing. The fact that they get away with it in the polls is how dumb these polls actually are. All stats are not created equal, and in this case running up scores on Elon, Gardner Webb, W&M, wofford and east carolina is verging on fraud. And by no means do I imply any disrespect on those programs individually, only in the sense of Dukes aggregate out of conference scheduling.

In the end none of this stuff matters. The polls mean nothing. Anyone will tell you that. Sheehan Stanwick Burch said it straight out during an NCAA quarterfinal broadcast a few years back. The only thing that helps a team get an at-large bid into the NCAA's is RPI and SOS. And all the Flakey Puff (anyone else remember that pastry?) OOC wins don't count for jack. In fact, it detracts from their final RPI/SOS number so scheduling those games has the damage done included and only ends up hurting their chances ultimately. They're not getting away with anything--trust me.

I don't buy that for a second. An ACC team with a 12-5 record will get in the tournament. Even if their only ACC wins are VT, Louisville and Pitt. They know this and it's why they schedule the way they do. Back prior to 2019 they used to schedule games with NW, Stanford, etc. They lost those games and didn't make the tournament so they've changed their scheduling to get the wins up knowing the ACC is a grind.

Maybe so, but it still won't help them do anything in the postseason. They won't be battle tested enough. The only reason they got as far as they did last year was because of Gabby Rosenzweig and all she brought to the team.

I'd argue, they got were they did because of seeding. A team I follow, that was probably better than Duke, got Cuse at home in the second round. Duke was 9-7 going into the tournament. Loyola was 11-2. Duke got the higher placement and easier path until Northwestern. ACC bias got Duke alot last year.

No disrespect to Gabby intended.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I'd argue, they got were they did because of seeding. A team I follow, that was probably better than Duke, got Cuse at home in the second round. Duke was 9-7 going into the tournament. Loyola was 11-2. Duke got the higher placement and easier path until Northwestern. ACC bias got Duke alot last year.

That's a good point. I hadn't considered seedings. But I still allege that cutting corners didn't get Duke any further along. They just weren't good enough to run with the big dogs last year. It won't help them this year either. Regardless of ACC or any other conference bias, you still have to win games against elite teams. The puff schedule and/or bias only gets you so far.

[Kleizaster]

What an absolute disgrace. They will get a nice serving of humble pie. it's coming. Quickly losing all respect for this program.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

[Dr. Tact]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

I have personal issues with Duke that go back to Ds recruitment. So, I like to grumble about the over-rated BDevils. Then the seeding thing last year really tuned me up. Just because they play in a great conference, just because they play good in-conf teams, isn't a reason to give a higher seed in the NCAAs than other teams that are arguably better (eye test). They were 9-6 last year in the regular season. It is a bias to the ACC and the politics of Duke's legacy.

It is more ludicrous with this '22 Duke team, because they are padding their schedule to be qualified for an At-Large bid. Their first 6 games ensures that they will be probably around 13-4/12-5 after going 4-4/3-5 in ACC regular season. They will win one game in ACC Tourney before losing. So SWAG of 15-5/14-6 before the NCAAs. That probably looks good to the committee and I am sure they will get good RPI from conference play. But as others have mentioned...when your OOC schedule assures you of 8 wins, before they even play on the field, the snarkiness goes up a few notches. Then the recent RUTS that they have had,rub me the wrong way.

I know you like Duke. That's OK. I know plenty of people that do. I don't.

[edit] you can turn the argument above to many teams (including Loyola), so I am not living in a glass house, just dont buy into Duke and I love to pile on.

[Bart]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

I have personal issues with Duke that go back to Ds recruitment. So, I like to grumble about the over-rated BDevils. Then the seeding thing last year really tuned me up. Just because they play in a great conference, just because they play good in-conf teams, isn't a reason to give a higher seed in the NCAAs than other teams that are arguably better (eye test). They were 9-6 last year in the regular season. It is a bias to the ACC and the politics of Duke's legacy.

It is more ludicrous with this '22 Duke team, because they are padding their schedule to be qualified for an At-Large bid. Their first 6 games ensures that they will be probably around 13-4/12-5 after going 4-4/3-5 in ACC regular season. They will win one game in ACC Tourney before losing. So SWAG of 15-5/14-6 before the NCAAs. That probably looks good to the committee and I am sure they will get good RPI from conference play. But as others have mentioned...when your OOC schedule assures you of 8 wins, before they even play on the field, the snarkiness goes up a few notches. Then the recent RUTS that they have had,rub me the wrong way.

I know you like Duke. That's OK. I know plenty of people that do. I don't.

[edit] you can turn the argument above to many teams (including Loyola), so I am not living in a glass house, just dont buy into Duke and I love to pile on.

Dukes women's team matches the men's team in terms of early season travel. Both teams tend to either say close to home or convince schools to come to Durham. If you go back and look there are some home/home differences but in both programs this seems to be the pattern. Perhaps, there is something else going on other than padding the schedule? IDK?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

I have personal issues with Duke that go back to Ds recruitment. So, I like to grumble about the over-rated BDevils. Then the seeding thing last year really tuned me up. Just because they play in a great conference, just because they play good in-conf teams, isn't a reason to give a higher seed in the NCAAs than other teams that are arguably better (eye test). They were 9-6 last year in the regular season. It is a bias to the ACC and the politics of Duke's legacy.

It is more ludicrous with this '22 Duke team, because they are padding their schedule to be qualified for an At-Large bid. Their first 6 games ensures that they will be probably around 13-4/12-5 after going 4-4/3-5 in ACC regular season. They will win one game in ACC Tourney before losing. So SWAG of 15-5/14-6 before the NCAAs. That probably looks good to the committee and I am sure they will get good RPI from conference play. But as others have mentioned...when your OOC schedule assures you of 8 wins, before they even play on the field, the snarkiness goes up a few notches. Then the recent RUTS that they have had,rub me the wrong way.

I know you like Duke. That's OK. I know plenty of people that do. I don't.

[edit] you can turn the argument above to many teams (including Loyola), so I am not living in a glass house, just dont buy into Duke and I love to pile on.

I fully understand where you’re coming from, Doc. I remember you sharing the specifics with me. I would still be ticked as well. Plenty of reason to root against that team now and forever. And for the record, I think you guys would have knocked off Maryland had they come to Ridley last year due to a more favorable seeding. We all have our favorites and the teams we root against. Part of the fun of sports.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Full disclosure. I used to root against Duke, all collegiate teams, until I saw the 30 for 30 episode “Fantastic Lies” regarding the men’s 2006 lacrosse team, which I found to be a very compelling watch. It’s been years since I first saw it, but it made a deep impression on me. Now I cannot help but root for both women’s and men’s lacrosse.

[hmmm]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

There is an argument to be made that Duke didn't even deserve to make the tournament last year. They beat 1 team in the regular season last year that ended the season ranked(or that made the NCAA tournament) and that was UVA. They also lost to UVA in the regular season as each team played each other twice due to Covid. And UVA only beat Duke and JMU in terms of teams that made the tournament. On the other hand PSU only had 4 wins but 2 were against Maryland and 1 was against Rutgers that both made the tournament and finished the season ranked. One got to pad their record with easy OOC wins and one wasn't allowed to play any OOC games. Making the NCAA tournament is a big deal for programs. Advancing to the QFs is a big deal for programs. This is much easier to do if you A)make the tournament over other potentially more deserving teams and B)are seeded higher than your actual resume warrants due to your inflated W/L record and the fact you play in the best conference.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

There is an argument to be made that Duke didn't even deserve to make the tournament last year. They beat 1 team in the regular season last year that ended the season ranked(or that made the NCAA tournament) and that was UVA. They also lost to UVA in the regular season as each team played each other twice due to Covid. And UVA only beat Duke and JMU in terms of teams that made the tournament. On the other hand PSU only had 4 wins but 2 were against Maryland and 1 was against Rutgers that both made the tournament and finished the season ranked. One got to pad their record with easy OOC wins and one wasn't allowed to play any OOC games. Making the NCAA tournament is a big deal for programs. Advancing to the QFs is a big deal for programs. This is much easier to do if you A)make the tournament over other potentially more deserving teams and B)are seeded higher than your actual resume warrants due to your inflated W/L record and the fact you play in the best conference.

Good points all. Yet shouldn’t the ire toward Duke be more properly and productively directed at the selection committee?

[hmmm]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

There is an argument to be made that Duke didn't even deserve to make the tournament last year. They beat 1 team in the regular season last year that ended the season ranked(or that made the NCAA tournament) and that was UVA. They also lost to UVA in the regular season as each team played each other twice due to Covid. And UVA only beat Duke and JMU in terms of teams that made the tournament. On the other hand PSU only had 4 wins but 2 were against Maryland and 1 was against Rutgers that both made the tournament and finished the season ranked. One got to pad their record with easy OOC wins and one wasn't allowed to play any OOC games. Making the NCAA tournament is a big deal for programs. Advancing to the QFs is a big deal for programs. This is much easier to do if you A)make the tournament over other potentially more deserving teams and B)are seeded higher than your actual resume warrants due to your inflated W/L record and the fact you play in the best conference.

Good points all. Yet shouldn’t the ire toward Duke be more properly and productively directed at the selection committee?

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

[Itsallgood]

I don't get the heat generated by Duke's '22 flakey puff schedule--like they're getting away with something. Let's say they make the NCAA's because of their OOC schedule combined with ACC bias. Then what? They'll get bounced in the first or second round, or if they get really lucky, they'll make it to the quarters before being dismissed. Does anyone think they'll make any noise in the ACC conference championship against BC, NC or Syracuse? I just don't get the indignation.

There is an argument to be made that Duke didn't even deserve to make the tournament last year. They beat 1 team in the regular season last year that ended the season ranked(or that made the NCAA tournament) and that was UVA. They also lost to UVA in the regular season as each team played each other twice due to Covid. And UVA only beat Duke and JMU in terms of teams that made the tournament. On the other hand PSU only had 4 wins but 2 were against Maryland and 1 was against Rutgers that both made the tournament and finished the season ranked. One got to pad their record with easy OOC wins and one wasn't allowed to play any OOC games. Making the NCAA tournament is a big deal for programs. Advancing to the QFs is a big deal for programs. This is much easier to do if you A)make the tournament over other potentially more deserving teams and B)are seeded higher than your actual resume warrants due to your inflated W/L record and the fact you play in the best conference.

Good points all. Yet shouldn’t the ire toward Duke be more properly and productively directed at the selection committee?

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

I’m not sure Maryland vs Syracuse would be considered ducking this year. After watching Syracuse on Friday , all I can say is they better really dominate the draw , because when the ball ends up in Syracuse’s defensive end there’s a whole lot going on ….and not much of it good. If Stony Brook can go 50% at the draw on Sunday I believe they can knock off Cuse.
PSA
Doubleheader at the Dome this weekend. (can anyone recommend a good steak house close to the Dome)

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

No comparison. Maryland is the greatest women’s lacrosse program of all time. They should be called out for ducking other teams, especially after SnowGait. Duke hasn’t even made it to the NCAA championship game, let alone won it. Plus, I don’t deny Duke’s ducking. But it’s just not even close to what the Terps are doing recently.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

No comparison. Maryland is the greatest women’s lacrosse program of all time. They should be called out for ducking other teams, especially after SnowGait. Duke hasn’t even made it to the NCAA championship game, let alone won it. Plus, I don’t deny Duke’s ducking. But it’s just not even close to what the Terps are doing recently.

Emendation: I’ve never heard or read anyone making excuses for Duke’s ducking; but my oh my, don’t the excuse makers come out in droves when the Terps do it.

[Dr. Tact]

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

No comparison. Maryland is the greatest women’s lacrosse program of all time. They should be called out for ducking other teams, especially after SnowGait. Duke hasn’t even made it to the NCAA championship game, let alone won it. Plus, I don’t deny Duke’s ducking. But it’s just not even close to what the Terps are doing recently.

Emendation: I’ve never heard or read anyone making excuses for Duke’s ducking; but my oh my, don’t the excuse makers come out in droves when the Terps do it.

I've never heard/read someone use "Emendation" before....I think I learned something today.

[user1020]

Sure the selection committee rewards them for scheduling like this. But you called out MD for "ducking" UNC and Cuse this year. At least MD is still playing UVA, Florida, Penn, JMU and Princeton OOC. Dukes best OOC game is Penn. Their second toughest OOC game is Davidson.

No comparison. Maryland is the greatest women’s lacrosse program of all time. They should be called out for ducking other teams, especially after SnowGait. Duke hasn’t even made it to the NCAA championship game, let alone won it. Plus, I don’t deny Duke’s ducking. But it’s just not even close to what the Terps are doing recently.

I may be biased because I do not like Duke. I will admit MD is ducking by not scheduling UNC or Cuse, but they still have UVA, FL, Penn, JMU, & Princeton. I would’ve liked for MD to keep a UNC and Cuse on their schedule, but they have 5 other non conferences games against ranked opponents. Duke has one OOC game against ranked opponents. A team in the top 10, currently #6, should not be playing one OOC ranked team, especially against a Penn team that did not play last year (same can be said for MD scheduling Penn and Princeton). MD is ducking I won’t make excuses, but how can a top 10 team not find any other ranked teams to play? Do their coaches not schedule hard teams, or do ranked teams not want to play Duke for some reason?