January 6, 2021: Insurrection or “normal tourist” visitation?

[MDlaxfan76]

It's as if these guys don't realize that oil prices are a world supply/demand relationship.

Do they think that because a particular pipeline isn't open, the Canadian supply isn't getting sold at all? What, are they just holding it off the market???

Keystone does nothing to increase world supply. Nada.

One can make a solid argument that, come the apocalypse or world war, etc, it would be strategically beneficial to be tapped into the Canadian supplies, but it certainly has no meaning to current prices. It would also be beneficial to New Orleans refiners, etc, but no real impact on world prices...or US prices.

The US oil industry, indeed the entire world's oil industry, drastically contracted supply, capped wells, and stopped virtually all exploration and new development. Prior to Biden's election, prior to ANY new environmental restrictions here or anywhere else. Major shock due to reaction to an unprecedented and totally unexpected worldwide collapse in demand. And it takes quite a while to restart that production, much new exploration and development. But it's coming back in 2022 and if no new shocks to demand, will continue to find equilibrium in 2023.

For a bunch of supposed "capitalists", comprehension of how markets work is incredibly poor.

It's a specious argument on its face...but that's what we're getting from right wing media, fueled by oil money.

This is such a stupid argument, has nothing to do with Jan 6 other than it's another reflection of how idiotic the right wing has become. How desperate it is for power.

[a fan]

Yes a pipeline delivers supplies. In this case, crude oil. And we have a supply problem. I dunno but seems like limiting supplies hurts our supply problem.

The oil goes overseas, Pete? This does nothing to drive US prices down.

Not necessarily.

We already played this game. I'm trying to find the YouTube of the Keystone XL where a wise Congressman asked the CEO at a House meeting, and I'm paraphrasing "are you willing to sign a contract right now guaranteeing that all of the oil from this pipeline stays here?"

He, of course, said no. Clever Congressman, sorting through BS claims.

That said, as I'm sure you recall, I'm 100% for this pipeline. Always have been. And the political games that Obama and Biden play with this company are UnAmerican, so long as we're still using oil. Approve the stupid thing, and focus on the larger picture. I agree there.

But the oil from this line ain't staying in the US. And it wouldn't make a material difference on gas prices. Waaaaay too many other factors involved in global pricing. Things like, oh, I don't know, coming out of a global pandemic has a bit more of an effect on prices.

[youthathletics]

It's as if these guys don't realize that oil prices are a world supply/demand relationship.

Can you inform Biden for us....Mr. Helper. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy ... 022-01-13/

[Peter Brown]

It's as if these guys don't realize that oil prices are a world supply/demand relationship.

Do they think that because a particular pipeline isn't open, the Canadian supply isn't getting sold at all? What, are they just holding it off the market???

Keystone does nothing to increase world supply. Nada.

One can make a solid argument that, come the apocalypse or world war, etc, it would be strategically beneficial to be tapped into the Canadian supplies, but it certainly has no meaning to current prices. It would also be beneficial to New Orleans refiners, etc, but no real impact on world prices...or US prices.

The US oil industry, indeed the entire world's oil industry, drastically contracted supply, capped wells, and stopped virtually all exploration and new development. Prior to Biden's election, prior to ANY new environmental restrictions here or anywhere else. Major shock due to reaction to an unprecedented and totally unexpected worldwide collapse in demand. And it takes quite a while to restart that production, much new exploration and development. But it's coming back in 2022 and if no new shocks to demand, will continue to find equilibrium in 2023.

For a bunch of supposed "capitalists", comprehension of how markets work is incredibly poor.

It's a specious argument on its face...but that's what we're getting from right wing media, fueled by oil money.

This is such a stupid argument, has nothing to do with Jan 6 other than it's another reflection of how idiotic the right wing has become. How desperate it is for power.

I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to keep,swatting this stuff back, so I’m just gonna post description graphs and such.

MD: yes, oil is a global commodity…and America is both the highest consumer as well as the largest producer. Therefore, America impacts the global price more than anyone, exacerbated by new laws and new regulations.

DF3BE48C-6247-404F-B3C9-A3D4F39621D2.png (194.62 KiB) Viewed 851 times

EAADBB07-311C-43C7-9A7B-51BE571E2885.jpeg (33.3 KiB) Viewed 851 times

[a fan]

I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to keep,swatting this stuff back, so I’m just gonna post description graphs and such.

Biden isn't "allowing" coal fired electrical plants according to your fact filled chart, eh, Pete?

Neat. Well, apparently he solved our electrical problems, Pete, since I guess all our plants are either hydrological, wind powered, or nuclear....and coal plants are all shut down.

Biden fixed it all, fellas, we're all set. Let's move on to other problems!

[NattyBohChamps04]

Oil production data from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... rfpus1&f=m

Wonder what happened around March of 2020? That must be when Biden canceled the pipeline deal. Looks like we've been trending upward since then, regardless of who's in office.

[MDlaxfan76]

such baloney from Petey.

But youth, I'm taking you seriously.

I hope you read the article?

Republicans are pointing fingers at climate-focused policies supported by Biden, a Democrat, for rising prices, but the reality is that oil market is linked to global factors beyond any U.S. political party's control.

But, politically, a POTUS, any POTUS, has no choice but to try what he can to influence factors he can reach...and be perceived as trying to do so. He can't be seen as not even trying.

But the realities are that these are not in his actual control.

[a fan]

This energy pricing problem isn’t a demand issue, it’s a supply issue. Supply is the one area where Biden’s multitude of regressive carbon fuel policies are directly impacting pricing.

Indeed it is, its why I scratch deez nuts about the "electrification era" being crammed down our throats. Why we would want to put all our eggs in one basket is beyond me....not anywhere else is that encouraged, well except in the the bedroom. I almost feel like it is wall street pushing electrification, because it is a new way to buy and sell electricity relatively speaking. Not to mention, in times of high electrical demand....commercial, residential, and industrial are sent demand curtailment requests to shed electrical load b/c of the supply side issues. And when those demand requests are sent.....these places are often forced to switch to fossil fuels.

Coupe that with the threats of our power gird and we are sitting ducks.

What's your teams answer? As usual, you don't have one. No vision. No plans. Just status quo, and a whole lot of "we can't do that". You guys don't believe in America anymore, and it's sad to watch.
'
Biden put $65 Billion into updating the electrical grid, btw. You know: that infrastructure bill that you all pretend didn't happen.

You really do a poor job of of cultivating discussion.

Pot. Meet kettle. I return fire, my man. "Crammed down our throats" sound like someone who is open minded about these issues? Yeah, not really.

Last I checked, investing in the power grid, is not generation....can you make fill 1000 gallons of bourbon if you only make 750 gallons....not unless you take shortcuts.

No, but you don't understand how electricity works. Line losses. Here's a nice primer. Old, sh*tty lines will lose more juice and/or fail completely. Also, have you noticed that all new developments in your area put the lines below ground? Why do you suppose that is? Heat, for one. And downed lines in a storm is the other. Invest, my man.

If I put those 1000 gallons of bourbon in one end, and bad lines leaks out 10%.....guess what? Now I need to "generate" 10% more bourbon at the plant. Make sense now?

And remember the TX problems with outdated equipment that can't handle cold?

Remember the infrastructure bill? You know, the one your team whined about, and cut in half? Well.. next time, call your rep, and complain. Tell them you want MORE money spent on infrastructure. But that's not how your team operates anymore. You just whine and complain, and do nothing....not even the bare minimum to literally keep the lights on.



http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/lost ... your-plug/

How about we get the entire grid fixed first

Your team didn't want to do that, either, and cut the *hit out of Biden's bill, when what they REALLY should have done was DOUBLE the doggone thing, and start to fix these obvious problems that you're pointing out to me here.

Your party is broken, YA. They can't even agree on basic infrastructure. And it sucks, because it's accelerating the decline of our country.

Oh no, we cant do that.....the poor wittle progressive's will need more crying rooms. Mention anything nuclear any those same poor wittle progressive will need to go on anxiety meds.

The wittle progressives got us from the sh*tbox Prius to the world class Tesla in under ten years, YA.

As for nuclear, boy, wouldn't it be swell if you could show the progressives the dozens of nuclear plants you built in Republican States where they call all the shots? What's that you say? Oh, you didn't do that, because you have no vision? Well....guess you can't blame the progressives for something that you chose not to do.

I said it to OS just a few weeks ago. Put me in charge. Every State but Hawaii would have at least one nuke plant, if not more. It's idiotic that we're not doing that.

Your turn.....what happens when your building loses power in the middle of run, how do you stay operational without the KW you need? How does a data center stay operations OR said better, how does a data center stay self reliant with n+2 or N+3 and no street power coming in?

I don't have to deal with that. My power lines are buried. You know: infrastructure spending in a brand new neighborhood. You might want to try it. Bring us out of the 1950's. Give it a try! You might like it!

Of course, you have to move your taxes from their historic lows, YA, and pay for these infrastructure improvements. I know, I know-----you Republicans prefer to give all your bills to your kids and grandkids because you're not man enough to pay your own way. But maybe this one time, you can grow up, and pay a bill all by yourself for a change?

[a fan]

Oil production data from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... rfpus1&f=m

Wonder what happened around March of 2020? That must be when Biden canceled the pipeline deal. Looks like we've been trending upward since then, regardless of who's in office.

Un-possible NattyBoh. "Dems are bad" overrides "getting out of a global pandemic", and is obviously what is making bacon more expensive in some random town in England.

Notice no one here blamed Trump for the global economy falling off a cliff during the height of the pandemic?

How about the boards Republicans try that for a little while, and stop pretending that they're idiots when it comes to how economies work?

[Typical Lax Dad]

Oil production data from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... rfpus1&f=m

Wonder what happened around March of 2020? That must be when Biden canceled the pipeline deal. Looks like we've been trending upward since then, regardless of who's in office.

Un-possible NattyBoh. "Dems are bad" overrides "getting out of a global pandemic", and is obviously what is making bacon more expensive in some random town in England.

Notice no one here blamed Trump for the global economy falling off a cliff during the height of the pandemic?

How about the boards Republicans try that for a little while, and stop pretending that they're idiots when it comes to how economies work?

They are not pretending. A couple in particular definitely are not pretending.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Of course all of this is just to distract from the actual thread topic where Trumpers injured over 140 cops, committed murder and tried to overthrow the election and try to install Trump into office.

Plenty of other threads on Biden's performance and the global economy.

[MDlaxfan76]

Oil production data from https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafH ... rfpus1&f=m

Wonder what happened around March of 2020? That must be when Biden canceled the pipeline deal. Looks like we've been trending upward since then, regardless of who's in office.

We're actually exporting more oil right now than at any point in history, slightly above where we were before the crash in worldwide demand in 2020.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/oil-exports

Petey is correct that the US is both the largest producer and consumer of oil...but only roughly 20%. We actually have very little influence by ourselves on world prices...what we can't do is turn the spigot on and off the way, say Saudi Arabia, can.

Their oil reserves are nearly 8X of ours, tiny % consumption. Venezuela actually more so.

We're only 11th in the world in oil reserves, at about 2.1% of world total. #3 Canada is the only reliable ally in the top 10...and they only have about 10% of the world reserves.

https://www.worldometers.info/oil/oil-r ... y-country/

Anyone see a strategic imperative in those #'s?

[MDlaxfan76]

Of course all of this is just to distract from the actual thread topic where Trumpers injured over 140 cops, committed murder and tried to overthrow the election and try to install Trump into office.

Plenty of other threads on Biden's performance and the global economy.

+100

[youthathletics]

Of course all of this is just to distract from the actual thread topic where Trumpers injured over 140 cops, committed murder and tried to overthrow the election and try to install Trump into office.

Plenty of other threads on Biden's performance and the global economy.

+100

Hook, Line, and Sinker.

[youthathletics]

This energy pricing problem isn’t a demand issue, it’s a supply issue. Supply is the one area where Biden’s multitude of regressive carbon fuel policies are directly impacting pricing.

Indeed it is, its why I scratch deez nuts about the "electrification era" being crammed down our throats. Why we would want to put all our eggs in one basket is beyond me....not anywhere else is that encouraged, well except in the the bedroom. I almost feel like it is wall street pushing electrification, because it is a new way to buy and sell electricity relatively speaking. Not to mention, in times of high electrical demand....commercial, residential, and industrial are sent demand curtailment requests to shed electrical load b/c of the supply side issues. And when those demand requests are sent.....these places are often forced to switch to fossil fuels.

Coupe that with the threats of our power gird and we are sitting ducks.

What's your teams answer? As usual, you don't have one. No vision. No plans. Just status quo, and a whole lot of "we can't do that". You guys don't believe in America anymore, and it's sad to watch.
'
Biden put $65 Billion into updating the electrical grid, btw. You know: that infrastructure bill that you all pretend didn't happen.

You really do a poor job of of cultivating discussion.

Pot. Meet kettle. I return fire, my man. "Crammed down our throats" sound like someone who is open minded about these issues? Yeah, not really.

Last I checked, investing in the power grid, is not generation....can you make fill 1000 gallons of bourbon if you only make 750 gallons....not unless you take shortcuts.

No, but you don't understand how electricity works. Line losses. Here's a nice primer. Old, sh*tty lines will lose more juice and/or fail completely. Also, have you noticed that all new developments in your area put the lines below ground? Why do you suppose that is? Heat, for one. And downed lines in a storm is the other. Invest, my man. [ I understand electricity quite well, which is entirely why I argued we should not be poo-pooing fossil fuel trying to go all electric. No one is arguing infrastructure is bad, no one, not one person, but you do set up a straw man argument nicely. ]

If I put those 1000 gallons of bourbon in one end, and bad lines leaks out 10%.....guess what? Now I need to "generate" 10% more bourbon at the plant. Make sense now? [You proved my point on the diversity between supply and demand. We dont have enough, so why are we not outwardly saying we need fossil fuel and nuclear energy while we rebuild our infrastructure, we are BS'ing and pandering to the tree huggers.]

And remember the TX problems with outdated equipment that can't handle cold? [noptiy-nope.....they were too dumb not to use heat trace tape thinking it never freezes in texas while we have "global warming" {hee-hee) Had nothing to do with outdated anything. Use that on someone that does not understand power. ]

Remember the infrastructure bill? You know, the one your team whined about, and cut in half? Well.. next time, call your rep, and complain. Tell them you want MORE money spent on infrastructure. But that's not how your team operates anymore. You just whine and complain, and do nothing....not even the bare minimum to literally keep the lights on. [ straw man....yet again. had so much pork in it is was embarrassing even for this administration]

Oh no, we cant do that.....the poor wittle progressive's will need more crying rooms. Mention anything nuclear any those same poor wittle progressive will need to go on anxiety meds.

The wittle progressives got us from the sh*tbox Prius to the world class Tesla in under ten years, YA. [Elon is now a progressive...LOL. He took a handout from the feds for R&D and already paid it back, like a conservative would do ]

As for nuclear, boy, wouldn't it be swell if you could show the progressives the dozens of nuclear plants you built in Republican States where they call all the shots? What's that you say? Oh, you didn't do that, because you have no vision? Well....guess you can't blame the progressives for something that you chose not to do. [ Considering Tn, was the last state to have one built....we'll call that a bipartisan truce. Otherwise....the 1990's are calling and they want you stop wearing parachute pants.]

I said it to OS just a few weeks ago. Put me in charge. Every State but Hawaii would have at least one nuke plant, if not more. It's idiotic that we're not doing that. [+1 Here- here...we agree]

Your turn.....what happens when your building loses power in the middle of run, how do you stay operational without the KW you need? How does a data center stay operations OR said better, how does a data center stay self reliant with n+2 or N+3 and no street power coming in?

I don't have to deal with that. My power lines are buried. You know: infrastructure spending in a brand new neighborhood. You might want to try it. Bring us out of the 1950's. Give it a try! You might like it! [Answer my question.....what happens when you lose power, how do you get back operational? Exactly. ANd underground power lines means nothing, The transformers are not buried....remember the days as kids meeting on the green box to play hide and seek. Yea.....the 1970's are calling and want your PF Flyers back]

Of course, you have to move your taxes from their historic lows, YA, and pay for these infrastructure improvements. I know, I know-----you Republicans prefer to give all your bills to your kids and grandkids because you're not man enough to pay your own way. But maybe this one time, you can grow up, and pay a bill all by yourself for a change? [Makes you wonder, how we came up with all this free cash to damned near every person in the country during covid, without raising over the prior 4 years. Seems we have plenty of money....but only when we all realize it is needed. The problem, as you know it, is not the you or I.....its those fighting over power. ]

Signing off for most of the weekend...heading out of town for a lacrosse game. Have a great weekend!

[old salt]

Yes a pipeline delivers supplies. In this case, crude oil. And we have a supply problem. I dunno but seems like limiting supplies hurts our supply problem.

The oil goes overseas, Pete? This does nothing to drive US prices down.

Not necessarily.

We already played this game. I'm trying to find the YouTube of the Keystone XL where a wise Congressman asked the CEO at a House meeting, and I'm paraphrasing "are you willing to sign a contract right now guaranteeing that all of the oil from this pipeline stays here?"

He, of course, said no. Clever Congressman, sorting through BS claims.

That said, as I'm sure you recall, I'm 100% for this pipeline. Always have been. And the political games that Obama and Biden play with this company are UnAmerican, so long as we're still using oil. Approve the stupid thing, and focus on the larger picture. I agree there.

But the oil from this line ain't staying in the US. And it wouldn't make a material difference on gas prices. Waaaaay too many other factors involved in global pricing. Things like, oh, I don't know, coming out of a global pandemic has a bit more of an effect on prices.

You made a blanket statement that the oil goes overseas. That is simply inaccurate.
Much of it is already refined in the US. much of that refined product is consumed in the US.
It would also transport domestic Bakken crude.
As you say, oil is a global market. The Congressman's false choice question is as silly as some of yours.
Access to the tar sands oil IS one of the factors involved in global pricing & it reduces the leverage of OPEC, Russia & Venezuela to effect market prices.

[FannOLax]

Access to the tar sands oil IS one of the factors involved in global pricing & it reduces the leverage of OPEC, Russia & Venezuela to effect market prices.

Venezuela is a founding member of OPEC, and never left.

[MDlaxfan76]

Of course all of this is just to distract from the actual thread topic where Trumpers injured over 140 cops, committed murder and tried to overthrow the election and try to install Trump into office.

Plenty of other threads on Biden's performance and the global economy.

+100

Hook, Line, and Sinker.

[old salt]

Access to the tar sands oil IS one of the factors involved in global pricing & it reduces the leverage of OPEC, Russia & Venezuela to effect market prices.

Venezuela is a founding member of OPEC, and never left.

Yes. I mentioned them specifically because they could be considered an adversary to the US, as could OPEC member Iran.
We had significant oil imports from Venezuela until 2019, when we ceased imports as a sanction.

[a fan]

[ I understand electricity quite well, which is entirely why I argued we should not be poo-pooing fossil fuel trying to go all electric. No one is arguing infrastructure is bad, no one, not one person, but you do set up a straw man argument nicely.

No one? Dude-----your Republican leaders, you know, the ones who can actually do something about infrastructure-----cut the Biden Bill in half right out of the gate. Result? We're not going to come even close the fixing the stuff that YOU are complaining about here.

You proved my point on the diversity between supply and demand. We dont have enough, so why are we not outwardly saying we need fossil fuel and nuclear energy while we rebuild our infrastructure, we are BS'ing and pandering to the tree huggers

My point exactly: your team just left office. They did NOTHING when they were holding all the cards, and could ignore the impractical tree huggers. Why do you think I'm frustrated with your party?

straw man....yet again. had so much pork in it is was embarrassing even for this administration

That would make sense, except yet again, your team did NOTHING to help the bill.

Elon is now a progressive...LOL. He took a handout from the feds for R&D and already paid it back, like a conservative would do

Dude, come on. You're gonna play dumb and tell me you are unaware of all the .gov incentives that kept Telsa afloat long enough to get it to where it is today? He hasn't paid diddly back. It's like some of you think we don't remember what you posted for the last decade plus around here.....complaining non stop about EV incentives or infrastructure.

The right whined and complained about the electric car incentives, remember? And investors knew that the Tesla was balancing the books at Tesla with various government giveaways. THAT is the progressive part. It worked. So yes, Elon believed in, counted on, and became a billionaire using the full power of the Federal government to line his pockets and make his vision a success. Take that government money away? He's stocking shelves at WallMart, and Ford is leading the EV charge.

Considering Tn, was the last state to have one built....we'll call that a bipartisan truce.

I'll never understand why the F you guys are in your political parties......your sales pitch is "well, the other party isn't doing sh*t either. Great news. Thanks for moving the ball forward.

I said it to OS just a few weeks ago. Put me in charge. Every State but Hawaii would have at least one nuke plant, if not more. It's idiotic that we're not doing that. [+1 Here- here...we agree]

Answer my question.....what happens when you lose power, how do you get back operational? Exactly. ANd underground power lines means nothing,

Tell that to Californians who lost their homes, My man. We have a transformer right around the corner. I'm aware that those are vulnerable. But you're telling me you don't get that the math goes way down on outages when the lines are buried?

[Makes you wonder, how we came up with all this free cash to damned near every person in the country during covid, without raising over the prior 4 years.

Simple, and speaks to my point------your team doesn't believe in paying its way. So we borrow. Are you enjoying this inflation? Because that's at least a part of that inflation.......too much money in circulation.

Signing off for most of the weekend...heading out of town for a lacrosse game. Have a great weekend!

Awesome! Hope you enjoy it. Catching DU Hopkins really fed my soul.

Enjoy the back and fort as always!!